₦airaland Forum

JackBizzle:
Not everyone is practiced in apathy like you.

I write things so that others can learn from me and also, so that i can be corrected. We learn everyday.


I am not an apathetic atheist.

The recent obsession with atheists and atheism on Nairaland is an act of desperation and a chronic need to feel relevant, so is mostly unnecessary to engage as you'd learn nothing from it - Best Ignored.

Though i am loving the recent atheistphobia and propaganda - it shows the presence of Nairaland atheist is seriously butt hurting some, and i'd be disappointed if it's not.

So seat back and enjoy the show, it's just a momentarily last gasp.

Please i am only here to observe and correct some scientific blunders here -

Gravity is very much a physical value and is not like a conventional force rather is the effect of mass on fabrics of space.

Yes, i will teach my kids our native Igbo language at home, let them learn and speak English at school but once you come back to my house, full time 100% igbo speaking.

Mizblinks:
Thanks sire, this really helped.. Kindest regards..

Thank you dear one..

Teempakguy:
i don't believe accounts of extraterrestrial visits. I also don't believe ancient astronaut theories.

I think theories like them are borne out of the basic human need for self esteem. We like to think that we're "better" than ancient people. That they are dumber than we are, and therefore, those magnificent structures they built could not have been their sole handwork. But we often forget the inventive nature of human beings. It's only in recent times that humans has become obsessed with instant gratification. There has been times when the majority of humans were relentlessly focused, and without games to distract them, they made the world their playground. It's actually not so different from now.

That being said, I'm always open minded towards reasonable evidence for these theories.

Oh this is very on point - i once replied a guy who was questioning me on how ancient structures were built trying to invoke the 'alien did' argument.

"Just because you can't figure out how ancient people built stuffs doesn't mean aliens did."

they were humans with same brain, deep scientific, engineering knowledge, how cant they achieve such feats with great number of manual labour.

On aliens visits and astronaut theories - i share same stance with Neil Degrasse Tyson 'show us proof, something alien'

The existence of Gods or potency of juju is not negated by the colonialism in Africa... That africans were colonized doesn't mean juju or gods are not existential values.

It was more so a technological intimidation, psychological intimidation and even physical abuse and coercion.

crusadistic:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

so what happened after that? why the decline in science in Islam? there up to 1.8billion muslims, isn't it curious we don't see Muslim nobel prize winners on Science.?

What could possibly be wrong?

lordnicklaus:
Thanks for the corrections bro! But there is something I want you to clarify. Does polar reversal have effect on life on earth? I mean if the earth starts rotating clockwise like its twin Venus, does it have a tell on life?

If you are asking as it stands now, the earth stops and reverses in a retrogade axial rotation then yes, if that happens the world as you know it is over though the only life forms with chances of survival are microbial forms.

But if you are referring if it'd have an effect on whether life could emerge on earth - then i'd say i doubt if it does.

Mizblinks:
Someone should help me identify the contributions of Christianity to the modern science and technology please... Thanks in advance.

Cc: johnydon22, ogaemma, blueAgent, mrphysics et el....

There have been a lot of Notable very influential Christian scientists whose works influenced many of our modern works.

If you are asking how Christianity influenced modern science in term of renown individual scientists who were christians then very many of them like:

Rev Fr Georges Lamietre - A catholic priest who first propounded the Big bang theory.

Isaac Newton - you may hear about Caculus or laws of motion.

Christiaan Hygenes

Johanness Kepler - who once had gone to the protestant seminary, i cannot say for sure if he remained a Christian till death though.

Very many of them but if you are asking what Christianity as an organized institution has done for development of modern science then i'd say nothing much as a matter of fact early science got a whole lot of persecution from the Church.

Like any scientist who taught Heliocentric solar system and not the geocentric system the church taught was either imprisioned or burnt at the stake for heresy - Gelileo was almost certainly a victim.

Giordano Bruno a catholic priest was burnt at the stake for heresy by the church because he held a view that there are more planets and life existed on them.

The church strived to contain and control scientific studies and aggresively opposed any scientific idea that were in direct contradiction to what the church taught.

But in the 21st century; christiandom is stepping up, vatican has in collaboration with NASA a large telescope for astronomical studies named LUCIFER.

I think they are more so stepping slowly into scientific grounds having realizing that earth is evolving into a society that will soon neglect and chastise ideas consonant with scientific facts.

I have a question that i think we'd need to address -

what are your views on extra-terrestrial life forms and civilizations and also on Extra-terrestrial visits (ancient astronaut theories)

Is there a chance that human Gods are probably an advanced alien specie that visited and primitive humans deified them?

lordniklaus, davien, KingEtiennsky, teempakguy, HCpaul, JackBizzle, Loj

ValentineMary:
Pope Francis is one of the very very few religious people I respect. Even as an atheist I still respect him a lot.

Many of pope francis' ideas makes it almost certainly that the man is a closet Atheist even i won't be surpise cus a very many percentage of priests are atheists.

1 out of every 6 priests in the neatherlands are either agnostic or pure atheist.

Excellent thread brother - Astronomy began with the ancients surely but as the mystic art of astrology.

To the ancients everything had a religious significance, they mostly studied Art and science for religious purposes, mysticism and superstition.

The sumerians were a beacon of huma civilization, they also gave us the 'wheel' and 24hours day measurement and accurately measured the orbit of jupiter.

But there was a problem with ancient natural philosophy [science] - they could not draw a fine line between belief and knowledge but buttered and explained observed knowledge with superstition and roped their practise of mysticism into it.

they hid the knowledge from the people, it was treated as a sacred knowledge only to be known by the elite - the priestly class.

so these knowledges had little or no effect on the populace, only helped few and even gave them a conning edge over the simple folks - i think the dibias (native doctors) of ancient igbo society are the scientists of those days in igbo land though even till these day they treat their knowledge as sacred and secret which still makes some regard the art of dibia as a supernatural feat.

Science should be open to all, science should be accomodating and there is no sacred knowledge only to be known by a few, if it can be known by 1 then it can be known by all.

that is where our modern science got it right, we seperated superstition from science and drew a fine- line between beliefs and empirical facts.

we still owe them for the advancement of our sciences even in the err of their of primitive practises.

reallest:
why do u always find my trouble?when will u continue ur thread "untold story of job"

I'm sorry oo my madam, i will continue oo. . . lol.

lordnicklaus:
Great thread as usual. The search for extraterrestrials continue. Even an astronomer is quite certain that by 2025, questions concerning extraterrestrials would be answered.

I have my doubts on that, but we could have answered for sure if there exist life on Mars and probably Titan by then.

Stars still emit radio waves and this might be clue.

Yes stars emit radio waves, pulsa stars more so but a radio signal from an intelligent specie will be quite different from starry radio waves.

I doubt they could be a radio signal from stars when put into audio mode will be singing - we are the world by micheal Jackson.

so we are definitely will recognize a radio signal sent by an intelligent civilization if we get one.

But the chance of exoplanets habiting intelligent beings is quite slim as it has been shown that electric wind has an effect on climate and life.

Surely solar winds are dangerous to organic compounds but many planets have a magnetic field that protects them from these solar wind and ones that lack a magnetic shield, organic compounds can still survive below the surface, a place that recieves little sunlight.

Electric wind caused Venus to lose most of its oceans and moisture and is probably responsible for the loss of ocean on Mars though some of its waters are frozen.

we ars still unable to look into venus because of the so thick sulfuric cloud atmosphere but since this cloud permits little sunlight from escaping venus, it may then have no ocean since it will be so hot. In fact it is the hottest planet in the solar system.

You are correct about Mars, study on Mars is showing Mars was once a blue ocean filled planet like earth in it's ancient days, probably lost it's magnetic shield and all was lost.

The chance that life exists on exoplanets is quite dependent on re-ocurring life itself. Once a generation perishes and there is none to replace it, the planet automatically becomes uninhabitable due to absence of organic life which is quite based on hydrogen and carbon, if I am not mistaken.

plus Nitrogen and oxygen

The organic life on earth is based on Carbon as the block of the chemistry but this doesn't make it the only universal way- methane can also allow such complex chain also, in fact life on Titan if there be one probably is Methane based.

There can be life anywhere in this universe cus life doesn't necessarily require a given condition, i do not know of any such condition required since many life on earth defile such chauvinistic conditions and even early life forms on earth therefoee life rather emerges to adapt to it's environment if it'll surive, the ones that can't cope dies off - thats natural selection at a very basic simple level.

But if there exists life outside earth, they are probably wondering if there is life outside their planet.
Cc. johnydon22

Probably but like the Fermi's paradox asked " where is everybody?"

davien:
Hardmirror I tip my hat in respect for replying winner01 and kingebukasblog.

I do so mainly because those two have degraded into nothing but bloggers and "like" chasers on nairaland who keep proping up empty topics and liking each others filth even to the extent of creating extra accounts to do so.

Rather pet my dog than make a lengthy reply to either one.

Hahahahaha the religious board has been so degraded, there is no more sound arguments or debates being presented.

Just a clown party of throwing insults and memes everywhere and anywhere, i miss our own days when we had very good sound discussions here.

i can't bring myself low enough to engage in the childish clowning that has taken the field here.

There is a severe obsession with atheist/atheism lately, a presumably fight against atheism not knowing that it is more so a promotion of atheism than an attack - most Nigerians don't even know there is such a thing as atheism, so pushing a propaganda against atheism will only make it more popular.

I have once said "Atheism is sweeping through the world like a wild fire, it is futile to fight it. it will take the Gods if they be flying down to earth to stop it"

STARRY SIGH [cosmopolitian]


A very dark and starry night, very loveable humidity, warm and the sky was clear as it was un-bothered by the pestering reflecting interferences of the moon.

I sat outside my house with a friend, a girl not few days ago.
. You could call it a romantic date on a basic sense.

We watched the stars, talked and talked until way into the night, i explained why the stars blinked, tried to teach her how to differentiate between planets and stars in the night sky, the night itself was very accommodating to our naive curious minds with sparkly eyes fixed at the heavens gazing at the twinkling lights.

"What if there are some other people in a world around one of these stars gazing at their night sky right now seeing our sun as another point of light in their sky, wondering just like us what the hell this universe is?" - I asked her all of a sudden.

She turned her gaze towards me, confused and obviously did not fully grasp the message of the question.

"What do you mean?" she asked.

I explained how our star is just another star like every other, that possibly almost all the stars we see at night have planets like our sun does and maybe just maybe some of them also have life forms thriving on them just like earth and probably a few species with similar curiosity of humans gazing at their sky asking the same question as we do.

Her eyes still looked lost, i doubt if she even understood the depth of the image i tried to paint, neither did she make out clearly the subtle colours i tried to make very well announced or the cosmic song i wanted her to listen to.

"John. You know sometimes both you and every other scientist out there are crazy" she laughed and said.

She was in doubt, more so unable to grasp the idea but i looked at her face as they turned again towards the sky, i could make out her eyes now wore a dreamy questioning look as they were fixed to the stars up above.

It was obvious her mind was now tinkering with the possibility of what she just heard, a wonderful new way to look at the cosmos was obviously at infancy in her mind.

My most recent romantic date [if i can call it that]


If people sat outside and looked at the stars each night, i'll bet they'd live a lot differently. when you look into Infiniti, you'd realize there are more important things than what people do all day

Bill Waterson

Man has always fantasized about our place in the universe, if we were alone, if our plain of existence was the only there is, these speculations seeming to be painted in a subtle way by primitive humans as a pointers could be derived from ancient writings that possibly were suggesting extra-terrestrial visit.

Even also in the modern day world a new craze of unidentified flying object sightings and claims liter every corner of the planet most unsubstantiate as these are lend credence to our feverish excited anxiety to find out, to think or understand we are not alone, there are others out there just like us and more exciting they visit us.

In many science fiction movies, aliens [extra-terrestrials] are always in the lime light mostly depicted to be highly intelligent, small humanoids with very little difference from us.

This shows since we are only familiar with one kind of intelligent specie on earth that are technologically intelligent - humans. so almost our every idea of what an intelligent being should be like has a basis on the basic physicality of humans and earth based life forms.

Two eyes, nose and mouth all arranged in the same order as our, five or four digits, upright posture and others, we may be chauvinistic about these organizations as it is the way we are arranged but this doesn't make it a universal calibration.

Unless somehow we share a biological origin and similar evolutionary Journey with such an alien life, we cannot possibly be closely similar in such manner.

Life evolve to look the way it does as a direct reaction to the factors of evolutionary effects in it's environment.

Example: Organisms in a rocky planet with a much greater gravity than that of earth would have very bulky large legs if they ever had one of those or there'd have bulky large bodies without legs with very powerful muscle strength to aid locomotion and withstand the gravitational pull of their environment.

Through out the course of the history we have always tinkered with the possibility of life outside earth, our first port of speculation was the moon.

Johanness Kepler believed that there were several other worlds all fully inhabited, he also strongly believed the moon was inhabited by race of intelligent extra-terrestrials, that the moon environment was much like that of earth with oceans, mountains, oxygen.

He observed moon craters, impact craters caused by meteor impacts on the moon surface, a phenomena that leads to geometrical perfection, the perfect circles of these craters which he rightly pointed out where depressions and not mounds, he argued that only intelligent species can make something with such geometrical accuracy, the circles of the craters that were very well represented almost an every inch of the lunar surfaces he argued were designed by intelligent beings in the moon.

To Kepler he was seeing first hand an architectural design of lunar inhabitants, such circular shaped works could not have occurred by chance under random natural phenomena ruled by chance, the circular shape gave testimony to a high degree of order and accuracy only intelligent species were capable of achieving.

Not once did he imagine it could possibly have been just another random work of uncharted random nature
A falling rock of great speed [meteorite or asteroid] impacting on a surface would produce a local explosion, perfectly symmetric in all directions and would carve out a perfectly circular cavity

As a matter of fact this was the case, a basic natural chaotic action with an emerging pattern and not a design only achievable by intelligence.

Turns out nature is and always capable of making very perfectly geometrically patterns in the course of it's random violent interactions.

Anaximader also believed in an infinite number worlds that were fully inhabited.

Albertus Magnus, thirteenth century once remarked -
"Do there exist many worlds, or is there but a single world? This is one of the most noble and exalted questions in the study of Nature"

Another of likewise profound curiosity and boundless reach of a mind into the cosmological possibility was that of Giordano Bruno, a catholic priest of the 1600s who held views of an infinite number of worlds that are fully inhabited just like earth - for that he was burnt at the stake for heresy.

For a greater part of human history man knew there was no other place other than earth, no other world other than earth and a universe not more than the earth with a sun and the moon and the stars as ruling lights placed inside the firnaments of the earth - a good example is the ancient Jewish cosmogony found in the genesis creation myth.

then the more man looked into the deep sky, the more fascinating they turned out to be and he began to recognize other worlds, he began imagine outside the confines of his horizone.

through out the infancy of the scientific enterprise, theology and mysticism, astrology and metaphysics reigned in the class of the intellectuals.

there was an egocentric projection of the human mind, he looked to the heavens having not understand the activities that go on endlessly in the deep man imagine himself the center of universal purpose, man imagined himself the apex of creation.

He speculated a universe with earth as the center while the sun, moon and now recognized other worlds orbiting the earth - the geocentric solar system more effectively championed by the church.

But as we looked more into the vastness of the deep, a natural subtle picture became clearer and our ego was battered, our pride shreded.

The universe is so vast that and we are not the center of it, there is almost 200billion galaxies seeming no more than dots scattered in the ocean of space, trillion of a billion stars litering every corner and almost certainly a similar figure of planets.

As we shoved astrology aside and practised the true discipline of astronomy, we were humbled by our discovery, lost in the reality of our study.

Contrary to the egoistic view of a universal centered earth with man at the center of universal purpose leading to causality, we discovered that we are no more than a lost specie of accidental organisms thriving in a very small world wedded to an mediocre star in a small remote part of an average galaxy lost in the chasm of a humongous lot in a very small corner of an almost infinitely large cosmos.

Nothing humbled man and the ego of his beliefs more than the discipline of astronomy.

The universe may be teaming with life at every corner of it, some may be at the simplest crude form of organic matter capable of making copies of themselves, some in a little more complex yet microbial form, some dying off before advancing past the simple microbile form, some stuck in the indifferent reptilian level of consciousness, some may be at a level of self realization and improved consciousness, some possibly advanced enough to achieve technological intelligence like man while others may be light years ahead in technological advancement - these are staggering possibilities.

If the chemistry that gave birth to life on earth is one championed by the commonest materials there are in the universe, who says such chemistry cannot happen anywhere else in the universe.

Sunlight reacting with these same materials of life gave Jupiter it's reddish brown colour and titan a tarry organic compound within it's consitutents.

we may be chauvinistic about our present conditions on earth necessary for life but one truth is certain - we are only aware of one planet with life but it doesn't necessarily become a bench mark for universal manifestation.

there is no law that says 'life can only emerge in a condition like earth' we are only making such chauvinistic speculations because we are only familiar with life on earth, if we were martian life forms mars and it's conditions would still be our benchmark for measuring life possibilities in other worlds.

But we are getting to realize, there may be life anywhere else in the universe regardless of the condition. Early Earth was nothing like this, it was more hostile and hot, there is a specie on earth 'water bears' a microbial life form that can survive so well in an oxygen less environment and even in the very hostile environment of space.

Many microbes on earth has survived and thrived when subjected to exact same conditions found in Mars in the laboratory.

So it is an awe striking realization, life does not necessarily need a right condition to happen, it can emerge in anyway or any condition with the necessary chemistry in place.

If there is life on Jupiter even though we don't know if there are, they must be something Carl sagan described as Floaters applying the evolutionary mechanism of natural selection.

Jupiter is basically a ball of gas with an solid core that almost certainly is very hot, if there are life forms existing on jupiter then there must be light enough to float in the jovian atmosphere.

the life forms who become heavy in this evolutionary course would fall towards the core and die off, the lighter ones fully capable of staying afloat in the windy atmsophere would continue and thrive.

but the evolutionary lesson is very clear; No two life forms in distinct worlds can ever look the same, there can never be any other human species in this universe just like there cannot be other species anywhere else. Evolution is an intrinsic journey, if there was a tiny variation in our evolutionary journey we almost certainly wouldn't have developed into the humans we are today.

Very many technologies on earth, radio telescopes has been pointed out to every direction in space to listen feverishly for a strange radio signal that might be from civilizations who have advanced enough to make use of radio means.

Thousands of radio messages are also being sent out from earth carrying a little of earth music, langauge at the speed of light in a journey through the vastness of the deep hoping someone out there is listening.

China has recently put in place the last piece of the largest radio telescope aimed at enhancing our look out for extra-terrestrial radio messages.

Voyager 1 has travelled past the solar system, the farthest distance ever travelled by a man made craft, it surely has gone past the reach of our control drifting endlessly in an infinite ocean also carrying within it message from earth for a stroke of rare chance it gets found by another citizens of the cosmos.

But such fairly tiny hope is discouraging when considering the vastness of the universe and distances between the worlds outside our system but perhaps somewhere, somehow someone is listening in a feverish anticpation like we are.

There are very many other variable that limits our chances.

-what if these messages reaches a planet inhabited by species that are not yet up to a technological advancement therefore has no means to listen to our friendly outreach for other universal relations.

-what if it reaches a civilization every much advanced than us and has gone past the stage of using radio technologies - they'd still be deaf to our call. like trying to contact a smart phone using a telegram machine.

-what if very many of these intelligent species didn't survive further as technological adancement seem pointing at self destruction.

Even though our hope of finding extra-terrestrial civilization is but a slim one, supposing we somehow do not self destruct we may yet make a headway in the coming years.

Mars and titan stands as a curious beacon of hope in finding extra-terrestrial neighbours.

This cruel stroke of limitations of fate we are subjected to as an almost inexistent lot lost in the vastness of an unlimited cosmos searching for likewise too small lost blinks in the universal arena, subtle almost inaudible peeps in the cosmological orchestra, is one that is held on to with a painful faith with only the excitement of the result as a nudging factor.

A painful fate bemoaned by . -Colin Maclaurin, 1748 thus

The author of Nature . . . has made it impossible for us to have any communication from this earth with the other great bodies of the universe, in our present state; and it is highly possible that he has likewise cut off all communication betwixt the other planets, and betwixt the different systems . . . We observe, in all of them, enough to raise our curiosity, but not to satisfy it . . . It does not appear to be suitable to the wisdom that shines throughout all nature, to suppose that we should see so far, and have our curiosity so much raised . . . only to be disappointed at the end . . . This, therefore, naturally leads us to consider our present state as only the dawn or beginning of our existence, and as a state of preparation or probation for farther advancement . .

We may yet be surprised after all said and done, we may yet hear the sighs in the stars.

Cc. Davien, lordnicklaus, HCpaul.. read and tender your honest opinions ... next episode updated shortly

ichommy:
Personally, I think when Christianity throws in Satan, and the trinity, we get into polytheism.

Of course, the Trinity was a REALLY hot debate topic then, and is now, and will always be as long as Christianity exists in the world. "3=1 and 1=3, just accept the mystery."

So I suppose I see four gods in the Christian faith.

A correct thought because satan also is a deity.. the thing is monotheism is just an offshoot of polytheism.

A particular civilization upgrading a particular deity to a universal level and denying the existence of others - the first attempt of monotheism is the egyptian Pharoah Akenaton who championed the God Aten to the position of the only God during his reign.

same event was also captured in a suble way in the bible - story of ahab and jezebel, jezebel was trying to make Baal the national God instead of yahweh.

The conventional christian terminology is polytheic though they say otherwise.

3 entities, all equally God and another diety in advsersary (satan) and many other ways.

ancients myths has a God for every thing the christians has a saint for everything. this is just a masked polytheism.

Seelurd:
@john. Whats the ETA of the nxt season. I dont want to come in disappointed all d time

If you noticed i haven't been that active on Nairaland lately, work isn't giving me much nairaland time but i promise i will make out time boss

wissenschaften:
Johnydon,where are you. Come on,the story's cool AF.

I will make out time to write more episodes boss

wonderful thread you've got here lordnicklaus i will be back to tender my own submissions

Sorry for the delay my brother, work isn't giving me much NL time

lordnicklaus:
Hmmm, I see. Which is to say, if this universe gets crunched up, a new one will evolve from the remains of the old universe and the cycle continues? That would definitely mean the universe is stuck in an infinite and endless loop of births and rebirths.

Yes, means this universe is almost certainly not the first to have existed or the last to

And say, this happens now, does that mean the end for us? (Asking from a scientific perspective and not a religious one)

Our existence is no more than a mere blink in the cosmic duration, so we almkst certainly will be long gone from the cosmic field before these events happen.

I will invite you and HCpaul to my thread 'Songs of the worlds' Come and enjoy the orchestra.

lordnicklaus:
Wow, a party.... See as you run rush the op @ johnydon22, you no even let am breath wella. No make am commit suicide o!!!! Though you do not believe in my God, I still love your outspokenness and honesty.... Keep it up bro!!! Even I have learnt a lot from your posts. I am not quite sure I can vouch for religion anymore even though I still believe in an "unknown cause" which still has effect on the expanding multiverse. But you made reference to something which caught my attention. You said the same force that is responsible for the universe is transient and could reverse itself thereby plunging the world back into its original devoid state? Please expantiate more on that, it is worth knowing. @ johnydon22.

It's a game of gravity brother..

Gravity provides an attracting pull and is dependent on mass..

and as we know the universe is expanding mostly due to the effects of Dark energy..

So here the possibilities are two -

If there are insufficient matter in the universe to counter this expansion then the universe will expand forever and meet a cold fate - a state where everything becomes to far apart, gravity becomes almost inexistent at that point stars cannot exist and the universe will grow dark and cold.

the part that caught your attention

If there is enough matter to produce enough mass thus gravitational attraction sufficient enough to counter this expansion, then the expansion will eventually slow down and stop and then reverse - gravitational attraction.

Everything will crunch back together - Big crunch

If this is so then the universe is more like a circle, it means its like death and rebirth, that means this wasn't the first or the last the universe has existed.

The big bang wasn't the first or the last, its a circle of Big Bang -> Big crunch -> big bang ->Big crunch.

that literally points at an eternal universe going on in an infinite loop.

UncleSnr:
Where is Johnydon22, he was debunking the existence of our airways in one his long epistle threads.
Dear Sonoflucifer, Hardmirror, come and fly with us.

https://www.nairaland.com/2694704/muhammed-flying-horse boss see am here

Flying horse - Jeeez people can believe things shaa

Pdizzle:
^^^So much ado about nothing. How can we even say something exists outside the universe, when we don't know how vast the universe is. The universe might be unending, nobody knows, so spare us the tale of existence of something outside of it, or give us proof.

You can imagine - something so simple eludes simpletons in comprehension... It is useless engaging someone with such willful idiocy.

taurus25:
that is them searching for the slightest gap to fit god in

Things outside the universe doesn't necessarily create room for deities, they may be other universes of varying dimensions.

I have always told people - Gods may exist or not, you may find places to invoke your Gods but do not play the "God of the gap" game, it is feeble. If people can only hide their God behind places still shielded by human ignorance then as history has shown that God will forever become smaller and unneeded as our ignorance wanes.

felixomor:
Once such people are exposed, they only try to hide behind derogatory posts. It doesnt work. Its an old trick known with atheists.

Please whose words are those above?

You clearly have nothing to say anymore.... I even defined the universe from a wikipedia source - everything contained with space/time [All of time/space] yet the willful cognitive dissonance would let you comprehend simple word usages.

Seriously need to up your game and stop throwing the words atheists up and down, i thought you said two posts ago you know i'm not an atheist, so i'm one now?

Confusion galore.

felixomor:
Now u have suceeded in bringing "uncertainty" into the discussion. Which is better though.


And I know u wouldnt have done that had i not pointed u to other possible theories of what lies outside the universe.
Afterall, what is outside "everything"?

Your problem is simple cognitive laziness, with a distorted cognitive capability you misconceive a simple assertion, make up some lunatic meaning in your mind and argue against it.

About the bolded please don't massage your ego, you know nothing when it comes to that i have once even opened a discussion thread on that:
www.nairaland.com/3053604/universe-multiverse-discussion.

Your only problem is inability to comprehend simple assertions, my words at the onset was

"we know nothing outside the universe" everybody knows we don't, we can only speculate.

Let me hope it doesn't get any dumber than this

Now u see that ur 'everything" is only what you know?
Lesson: never use the word "everything" when you are not an authority in a field of discussion.

So when I asked earlier do u know any other thing that operates itself.
Why didnt u point out some level of unceratinty, by saying, "we have not seen any other" or say "we dont know"(as u just did above)

" we know nothing outside the universe."

was the simple answer i gave up there, it's not my fault if you are cognitively impaired to understand even the most basic answer.

I am responsible for what i write, you are responsible for what you understand

Now you are trying to use long lines to make ur "everything" look relative between u and i. *yinmu*
That aside.

#sighs

Moreover its now obvious there is a possibility of some other things that "operate themselves" outside the universe. And also outside your "nature".

I knew it would get dumber, since when did the universe become the entirety of nature?

and please let me repeat this "We know of nothing outside the universe"

And u are arguing quantum "theories" yet you dont want people to argue metaphysical "theories". Mscheww

Lmao, metaphysics is a medieval physics - aethers, geocentricism - these are relics of the past.
Astrology and metaphysics are consonant with modern science, you can take those pseudoscience to your religious classes or when discussing with likewise superstitious minds.

when it comes to scientific discussions - shove them up your ____

My best advise for people like u is just to stay in the middle.
If they ask u anything,
just say "i dont know"
It will save u so much rather than trying to be professor of "everything", yet you are inside "something".

You simply have nothing to say, common i thought you wanted to show muscles in science bring it on.

I admit me myself am also in the container called the universe, but I can rely on someone outside (who operates based on spiritual laws also, not only physical laws of time, space and matter)
to tell me what is outside and that Person communicates with me through what you call 'consciousness"

lmao - here goes the claim i have been waiting for.. this will be interesting, i will only say to this .

prove it

I will be waiting to hear more nonsense.

I dont expect u to unravel consciousness. Not even the most elightened atheists have done that.

People like you are a huge problem to the intellectual evolution of the human species, people who would hide their beliefs behind the curtain of scientific ignorance.

Neuroscience is a branch of science we are making headways on everyday, that humans do not completely understand every neurological manifestations doesn't mean we won't and it in no way adds weight to your ridiculous claim up there.

you may wallow in any superstition of 'outside the universe' communication as much as you want but one thing remains certain; since you are going to hide behind the areas of human uncertainty to invoke your nonsensical claims and superstition.

Be ready to have them broken to pieces with more scientific breakthroughs in that field.

mrphysics:
mkmyers45 , UjSizzle, seun, lalasticlala


BTW, Tempakguy, Jonnydon22, explorer how do you see the governments move?? do you support it??

I think it's a quantum leap for Physics in Nigeria.

I'd rather prefer we utilize other sufficient forms of energy generation that are also safe and green.

Solar
wind

felixomor:
First you start by quoting wikipedia.
Even kids edit wikipedia.
Whats that, its called shallow work.
Please be specific

Please lets not deviate too far from the question, i asked if u ever know any other thing "apart from the universe that operates itself?"

And the circle keeps going, a simple reply "we don't know anything outside the universe" is so hard tocomprehend, please how can you provide an example of something outside the universe when you don't know of any?

And then u make it clear that universe is everything by citing wikipedia.
But here is what some Cosmologists think

Read it here: http://io9.gizmodo.com/5799335/five-weird-theories-of-what-lies-outside-the-universe

I dont think their reasoning is stupid either, or are they?

There are numerous theories as regard possibilities of universes, Multiverses, bubble or over laying universes many of them.

the truth remains nobody still have any idea of things outside this universe, so quoting theories still in no way helps your case because these hypothesis we recognize are speculations of possibilities.

again how can you give examples of things outside the universe when you know of nothing outside the universe.

Again, it shows u have limited your thoughts all by yourself.
Moreover you use the word "contents"
Every "content" has a "container"
My issue with u is that u cant even position your brain in a place to ask "what is outside of this container"?
Yet u claim to b scientifically oriented

Extra-terrestrial universes are areas i am firmly rooted in when it comes to cosmological terms, it is still a starkly uncertain topic only reachable by assumptive speculations.

The facts remains: Nobody knows if or what lies outside the universe, so you should straighten your points better.

Again u ask how does traversing the entirety of the universe avow "universe is everything"

Is it that u have problem with the word u used? "everything"
The word "everything" completely excludes "every other thing" Please if u dont know, know now.

Everything is a unifying word, a bundle of an entirety. . . Everything we know of is part of our universe, it sums up the totality of our space/time.

I wonder the so hard thing on something this simple to understand

And please let me tell u how you sound when u try to proclaim "everything" from inside and within the universe.

Every expanse and constituents of space/time is the universe, if there are things outside the universe.

-other universes
-hypa-universe.

we do not know yet therefore we cannot give such an example when we don't know of any other thing outside the universe.

U sound like the capacitor telling the transistor what "everything" is, meanwhile they are both inside and within a television box.
How myopic could that be? (if u like twist the analogy)
Afterall its obvious u didnt get the "policeman in the city" analogy.
Overall, u clearly dont know that "everything" excludes "every other thing".

total mesh of nonsense.

"we know nothing outside the universe"
You dont know that this statement can give birth to another true statement,
"we are inside the universe"
Or u want to disagree with that?

Exactly the point, a very simple point you always miss in your hurry to engage in an infantile effort with meaningless circle of words.

"We know nothing outside the universe" therefore we cannot give an example of what we don't know.

keep on asking for examples after this.

And if u are 'inside' the universe, how were u able to verify there is nothing 'outside'?
I hope u see how ur thinking has been restricted?

You see now how you always employ nonsensical fallacies of ambiguity redefining a term to suit your own self even if means misrepresenting it.

The post suggest we know of nothing outside the universe therefore we cannot give an example of something outside the universe - how exactly does this elude you?

You want to be a professor of 'everything' yet you are 'inside' something.
How better can it get?

You keep saying "certain subatomic particles can be induced"
Please why the "induction"? ("induction" from the word 'induced" which you used, so that you wont swallow me.)
Is the induction not an influence?

As usual simple terms eludes you cognition - it infers a distinct condition of physical quality.

Moreover macro and micro can both affect each other.
Actions and events at micro level can be an effect of what is happening at macro level.
It even buttresses the theory that what you see within the universe can be an effect of whats going on outside it.
Well u can argue against that, i am not in any way trying to win u over.

OH this correct - micro is the foundations upon which the macro is built, the physical properties of the macro are due to the configurations at the micro bits.

So in line with the infinite universe theory [everything is a universe of it's own] the universe we know might in fact be just a micro bit in a much larger plain, a defining constituent amongst lots more of a larger manifestation.

Atheists need no personal definition from me.
Atheism has long been associated with pride, The man who says there is No God despite the biillions of evidences around him is only full of his own brain.
He refuses to think of the possibility of what is outside the universe, what is the origin of the consciousness I posses? Why did my heart start beating all of a sudden when i was in my mother's womb?
Pride can never be more than that.

As usual replacing the ignorance of your mind with the sound 'God'. . . it takes attendant idiocy to always hope to replace a gap of ignorance with any assumption that comes to mind.

Posing questions that are all parts of our scientific enquiry but then having a preconceived answer in the face of ignorance.

-You have no evidence to support your claim of a deity, only hiding behind places of human enquiry shielded by a curtain of scientific ignorance.

that there are questions you have no answer to doesn't mean gods did it, it simply means you don't have the answer yet.

invoking gods would rather terminate your research while deluding you with the notion that you've got the answer.

-Give us evidence of your God.

You cannot point at a tree to infer tree fairies exist, provide empirical evidence for them not tender your claim as evidence.

If you want to see the best of an atheist, make him the supreme leader of a nation.
I know u are not one anyway

I'm sure you know, isn't that what religious belief is about? Pretending you KNOW something you Don't.

That's a trait and arrogance only simpletons can harbour

felixomor:
Logic hole 1: 'the universe is the totality of everything"

You are WRONG.
Even no scientist has ever made that statement because no one has been able to traverse the universe let alone going outside it.

It's always like playing a board game with a kid when arguing you theist, please how exactly does traversing the entirety of the universe related to avowing the universe is everything?

You should simply read your posts before posting them...

No scientist has ever made that statement - i wonder what scientist mean to you lot

[ The Universe is all of time and space and its contents.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe ]

Talk trash next time.

U need a totality to sucessfully make an exclusion
E.G.
To say that there is "no policeman IN A CITY" means you must traverse the city thorough and sucessfully exclude the personality of a policeman, before making such statement.

Very off hook analogy, you are relating an analogy of "No policeman in a city" to an assertion "the universe is everything"

Years ago, there were "only nine planets". But we now know that that statement was false by whosoever made it that time.
My dear i hope u see ur fallacy.

You need an upgrade before you can pin point fallacies because all you did was create one in your head starkly unrelated to my assertion and then dance around it.

Your answer should have simply been "i dont know, sincerely"

Oh i gave a very simple answer - The universe again is your answer... we know nothing outside the universe.

which is the truth, we know of nothing yet that can be pointed to be outside the universe. so the self operating nature of the universe remains our number one example.

And a more truthful answer would av been 'nothing really starts operating itself, its a scientific law, yet to be defied by any experiment'.

Why do you lot always talk so much crap with so much arrogance - just after i have treated ignorant misconception above.

"Cause and effect" is a law of the macro state, breaks down in the micro level, quantum tunnelling, quantum fluctuations, Physical laws of the macro state breaks down in the quantum state.

quantum level contradicts basically almost every macro law of physics.

In fact let me also give an example of things operating themselves with external influence - certain subatomic particles can be induced to speed up all by themselves with any external force.

http://news.mit.edu/2015/self-accelerating-particles-0120

This murders your naivete that no experiment has defiled laws of cause and effect [motion]

I sure do hope you argue less from ignorance now.

But its typical aethist pride, we know.
And its right at work in u, even though u r not yet an aethist

Anyone who reads this can only imagine how confused or idiotic you must be - i'm sure you are the one who states who is an atheist or not.

"I'm having a personal relationship with the supposed creator of the cosmos, but oh atheists are the proud one"

And it's atheist not aethist[/b]

felixomor:
Ok, pls u just said the universe 'operates itself'
Pls can u list examples of other things that 'operates itself' ?
We are learning.

The universe again is your answer... we know nothing outside the universe.

the universe is the totality of everthing..

You simply do not know how to phrase a question: your question should have been.

Is there anything apart from the entirety of the universe that operates itself..?

another answer - The stars.