₦airaland Forum

malvisguy212:
if evil is a concept, then whenever a disaster befalls mankind, God has nothing to do with it, it was a concept, agree?

Lmao am sure you dont know what a concept is that is what we are seeing here.

Evil is a concept means that it takes a mind to recognize that which negates good therefore is evil. . .

@bolded first prove your god before attributing any event to it..

malvisguy212:
you are making your self and atheism look evil and heartless,hitler killed 6million Jews to you it wasn't an evil but a concept,seriously? Is this what atheism teaches you? I nod my head for you.

Lmao one problem with you is that you lack common simple comprehension... HERE IS MY WORDS

Now since clearly you are giving hitlers holocaust as an example which is a
very nice example of evil..

everyone reading this will see i said it hitlers holocaust is evil, now you are saying another thing different from what i said.. please i beg you, stop the straw man and stop misrepresenting my questions.

My question was simple; How were you able to recognize hilters action as evil

malvisguy212:
The Bible says that the presence of evil is due to the spiritual component of our
nature - something the animals do not
possess. God endowed His spiritual
creatures (humans and angels) with free
will to love God or oppose Him.

I remember one incident I read on the internet ;On April 20, 1999, two high school students, in a carefully planned attack, killed 12 students and one teacher and wounded 23 others before killing themselves at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. The targets of the attack were athletes and Christians. After shooting and throwing bombs on the campus and hallways, they headed for the cafeteria, where they continued their rampage. Then they went into the library, where they continued shooting and throwing bombs at the students, who were attempting to hide under desks and behind the stacks of books. Students were picked out and
threatened, with many pleading for their lives as they were gunned down.
The bible say in revelation12:11
And they overcame him because of the
blood of the Lamb and because of the
word of their testimony, and THEY DID NOT LOVE THEIR LIFE EVEN TO DEATH.
(Revelation 12:11)

Hitler killed 6million Jews , where did this idea come from? Concept? I pity for you my friend.

habaaaa a very simple question, one example of evil and i get a long copy and paste that is not even within the context...

Cant you give one example of something you consider evil.

Now since clearly you are giving hitlers holocaust as an example which is a very nice example of evil..

Now can you tell me; How where you able to discern it was evil?

(please for crying out loud stop the copy and paste and make your answers snappy and tactful like mine...)

malvisguy212:
click the link I paste and read.

Curl from the link you fail to read;

God's omniscience does not mean that God changes His character to pretend that everything is fine when human beings sin. For example, in Genesis 6:6, the Lord was sorry because of the rampant sin that mankind had fallen into. So, even though God knew what was going to happen, He was sad that human beings were thinking only about how to sin more and more. We basically have the same reaction to our own children. We grieve when they make bad choices, although if we had it to do over, we would still have brought them into the world.
What about instances where God
"changed His mind?" Shouldn't one
expect that an omniscient God would
never have to change His mind? If we
examine the verses where God "changes
His mind" we find in every instance that
either the people themselves or a
spokesman for the people repents of the sin that was going on. For example, God sent Jonah to the city of Nineveh to warn them that they were going to fall under His judgment. If God had never intended to "change His mind" He would have never sent the reluctant Jonah to the city. In fact, God had to go to extreme lengths to get Jonah to go, and Jonah was ultimately very unhappy when Assyrians repented and God did not destroy them all. So, God really didn't change His mind, but was giving the people a chance to repent of their evil ways in order to avoid judgment. In some instances the people repented and were spared, and in other instances they continued to rebel and were destroyed. So, God's purpose in warning people of impending judgment was get them to change their minds.

And this shows god never knew if the people of Nineveh would repent or not, because from the bolded you clearly shows he was given them a chance to...doesnt know if they will or will not..

hence the first plan to destroy them which changed due to their repentance. . . and an omnipotent god should have been well aware from the very on set there since he is not didn't know, he changed his mind then he is not omnipotent

malvisguy212:
smh

Please just give us one example of evil...?

is evil an action or an entity?

malvisguy212:
Amos3:6 and isaiah 45:7 this thread answer the question https://www.nairaland.com/2035915/did-god-create-evil-does

Concerning jerimaih42:10 it was the king James that translated repent,the verses above, and others, come from the Hebrew Old Testament. The word translated "repented" is the Hebrew verb nâcham (Strong's H5162). It
has a number of meanings, including "to be sorry," "console oneself," "repent," "regret," and "be comforted." The actual meaning intended is determined from the context. For example, the King James version translates Genesis 6:6 as "And it repented the LORD that he had made
man on the earth, and it grieved him at
his heart." The New American Standard
translates the verse as "The LORD was
sorry that He had made man on the
earth, and He was grieved in His heart."

The King James English
translation uses archaic English
that didn't have the same
meaning 400 years ago as it
does now. So, the archaic
translations indicating that God
"repented" really indicated that
God was sorry or "changed His mind."
Since God never sins, He has no need of
repentance. Some skeptics have pointed
out that an omniscient God should never
change His mind, since He always should
know what was going to happen. In
reality, God never changes His mind, but
warns rebellious people to give them the
opportunity to change their minds before
He judges them.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/does_god_repent.html

repent, to be sorry for, to change your mind all means the same thing. . . to be sorry for your sins means to repent of your sins... its still the same..

I thought your god doesnt change in the first place?

malvisguy212:
atheists cannot even get of the ground,you said evil has noting to do with God, dalaman provide evidence saying God is the author of evil.who are we to believe?

He doesnt even see the sarcasm in dalamans post. . . he is taunting you by telling your god made evil as said in the bible..

But seriously your god is the author of evil? Now thats not the type of god i will like to conceive... Being the author of evil makes him less moral than the most evil human i can think of. .

malvisguy212:
Does evil exist? Evil is immaterial, did science proved that evil is a concept by man?

Am not even sure you know the meaning of a concept.

Evil is a concept and concepts are conceived in the mind. . . Can you give us one example of evil??

malvisguy212:
As Islamists continue to kill innocents,
they provide more fuel for the oft-made
atheist claim that religion is evil. The deadly attack on France by the islamists
Atheist,Richard Dawkins condemned it by tweeting "No, all religions are NOT equally violent. Some have never been violent, some gave it up centuries ago. One religion conspicuously didn't."

Dawkins is right that some religions and
religious people have consistently
perpetrated evil. Atheists often use this
fact to support atheism. However, the
existence of evil turns out to be a bigger
problem for atheists to explain than for
theists. The kind of evil Dawkins and the
rest of the civilized world abhor doesn't
disprove God it disproves atheism.

On a first note your analogy of atheists using evil perpetrated by religions to support atheism is a big junk of fat lies born out of assumptive sentiment. Atheist tend to disagree with religions based on the evils perpetrated by them while professing good. Just exactly same way you NL christians and muslims point out the evils in your religions.

malvisguy212:
While it's commonly thought that only
theists have to explain the existence of
evil, the truth is every worldview does.
Eastern pantheistic religions try to get
around the problem by denying that evil even exists. Evil is an illusion, they say (and according to them, so are you!).
Theists say evil is real and try to explain
how evil and God can coexist. Atheists
tend to be caught in the middle. In one
breath they are claiming there is no
good, evil or justice because only material things exist—we are just
material molecular machines "dancing to the music" of our DNA (as Dawkins
himself put it). In the next breath they
are outraged at the great injustices and
evil done by religious people in the
name of God.

Actually the concept of good and evil is dependent on each other.
@bolded is another example of theist morality(lying to make a point) good, evil and justice are all human concepts (concepts means ideas). and ideas are product of human mind. . so evil, justice and the rest are subjective to human meaning.
(quoting dawkin bears no weight because dawkin airs his own opinion and not mine or others.)

malvisguy212:
Well, atheists can't have it both ways.
Either evil exists or it doesn't. If it doesn't exist, then atheists should stop
complaining about the "evil" things
religious people have done because they haven't really done any. They've just been "dancing to the music" of their
DNA. If atheism is true, all behaviors are merely a matter of preference anyway.

Their is nothing like both ways. .as long as evil and good remains a human concept it is easy to discern actions that falls within them therefore atheists attacking religious evils (even tho not only atheist because different religions attack other religious evils too) only means they are attacking evil masked in the name of good. . . E.g; Killing a heretic during the crusades is good according to christians then, but to a human killing another human is wrong therefore it is right for you to point out this evil portrayed as good by a religion.

malvisguy212:
On the other hand, if evil actually does
exist, then atheists have an even bigger
problem. The existence of evil actually
establishes the existence of God.

Evil is a concept therefore for evil to help you prove your god then you must agree your god is a concept (idea) which is what atheists have been yapping since.

malvisguy212:
To explain why, we need to go back to
Augustine who puzzled over the following argument:

1. God created all things.
2. Evil is a thing.
3. Therefore, God created evil.

How could a good God create evil? If
those first two premises are true, He did, and this is a God problem. So God must not be good after all. But then Augustine realized that the second premise is not true. While evil is real, it's not a "thing." Evil doesn't exist on its own. It only exists as a lack or a deficiency in a good thing.

Evil is like rust in a car: If you take all of
the rust out of a car, you have a better
car; if you take the car out of the rust,
you have nothing. g. In other words, evil only makes sense against the backdrop of good. That's why we often describe evil as negations of good things. We say someone is immoral, unjust,
unfair, dishonest, etc.

Like above good and evil are concepts of humans. . if you conceive and recognize giving a poor man a coin is good, then stealing a coin from the poor man exactly negates the action of giving. . So good and bad are dependent on each other because both concepts negates the other.

malvisguy212:
We could put it this way: The shadows
prove the sunshine. There can be
sunshine without shadows, but there
can't be shadows without sunshine. In
other words, there can be good without
evil, but there can't be evil without good.

So evil can't exist unless good exists. But
good can't exist unless God exists. In
other words, there can be no objective
evil unless there is objective good, and
there can be no objective good unless
God exists. If evil is real as the recent
headlines from France plainly reveal
then God exists. The best evil can do is
show there's a devil out there, but it can't disprove God. The very existence of evil boomerangs back to show that God exists.

from the beginning of this post you have been going around the same thing, wonder why it turned out to be too long..

Evil and good are both human concepts and have nothing to do with a
deity..
this is like saying, hot cant exist without cold, and cold cant exist without
god... it is a very wrong and laughable analogy.
these are both human concepts that are dependant on each other for
meaning because they negate each other.
hot cannot exist without cold and same way cold cannot exist without hot
concept of evil cannot exist without good, same way concept of good
cannot exist without evili

dalaman:
If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you. Jeremiah 42:10

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? Amos 3:6

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Some times the OP needs to read his bible.

that is if the theist was talking in the christian concept of god, but he didn't quote bible so i take it that he is begging for any god at all to be the dependent foundation for morality.

speaking of which the bible god doesnt pass... lol

malvisguy212:
.

So evil can't exist unless good exists. But
good can't exist unless God exists. In
other words, there can be no objective
evil unless there is objective good, and
there can be no objective good unless
God exists. If evil is real as the recent
headlines from France plainly reveal
then God exists. The best evil can do is
show there's a devil out there, but it can't disprove God. The very existence of evil boomerangs back to show that God exists.

Evil and good are both human concepts and have nothing to do with a deity..

this is like saying, hot cant exist without cold, and cold cant exist without god... it is a very wrong and laughable analogy.

these are both human concepts that are dependant on each other for meaning because they negate each other.

hot cannot exist without cold and same way cold cannot exist without hot

concept of evil cannot exist without good, same way concept of good cannot exist without evil

Actually its quite the reverse... the existence of evil contradicts the existence of a god.

[size=20] Is god willing to stop evil but not able then he is not omnipotent

if he is able but not willing then he is malevolent

if he is both able and willing, then whence come evil?

if he is neither able nor willing then why call him god [/size]epicurus


without religion you will have good people doing good and bad people doing bad.

it takes religion to make good people do bad things with every cheerfulness... Op you just brought another good point to disprove your god

OREMUSSANCTUS:
By d way, whoz allahh?
Is it not dat gos dat told muhamMAD to rape a 9 years old child at d age of 54?
MuhamMAD was a mad man
*allah is a fool*lish being

Bro you really are getting over aggressive about this allah and islam thing... please calm down, its not a fight.

hahahahahaha see weed... why didn't y'all pray, then seat back and let allah do the voting...

OLAADEGBU:
Every normal human being will have the milk of compassion as you have just shown above but religious nuts have their hearts seared with hot iron that they have lost touch with humanity. What do you feel turns humans into heartless souls like the ones in the OP?

lack of compassion, valuing faith more than humans, placing religion above life, lack of empathy, love... I think we are just a sorry lot.

Op is that your sister

MuttleyLaff:
OK. Why didnt he pour inside
Remember you forming at Ugojames or loomer with "dont you have a bible at home"
https://www.nairaland.com/2292179/please-how-true-pic#33387661

Hiaaaaaan, is it by force to pour inside .... you never hear of withdrawal method ni?

LMFAO....

MuttleyLaff:
Of course, you have been yapping,
but you actually have been yapping like a puppy, up the wrong tree


Sorry the temptation to say "Welcome Johny-Come-Lately" at this point, is too strong to resist
How you can read from the onset https://www.nairaland.com/2292179/please-how-true-pic#33404282
and still need corraling to the facts and truths beats me


Bet you would have nothing more to say
now please dont forget your Chance card, "Advance to Go. Collect $200"


I didnt have to, the point, fact and truth were made from the onset buddy
Before you started making a meal of this thread and trying to complicate it, the point was already made at:
https://www.nairaland.com/2292179/please-how-true-pic#33404282


... just an answer to that. It's you who made a meal out of it...
you tried making a simple event overly complicated ROTBL

hahahahahaha another long yarn

hehehehehehe omo am bored.. oya lets start again.

[size=20] The dude was killed because he didnt pour inside the punany[/size] puhahahahahaha

MuttleyLaff:
[size=20]Yes he wasnt killed for shagging his brother's wife many times,
but was taken out for going against the grain when he "chose not to pour inside" [/size]as was expected of him to do


OK, not saying you're slow on the uptake
but I do appreciate not all do understand the practical and moral implications of the dastardly deeds here
This wicked act is denying the widow of an inheritance and chances of survival
The man was happily straffing away and shinninng his congo BUT repeatedly refusing to face up to reality and to his responsibility

His been shown the exit, served as a deterrent to others thinking of planning to do the same
and sent a strong message that God frowns on such selfish, self centred wicked and cruel act.


Yes, you're so quick to whine and point an accusing "everybody is seeing your glaring twisting tactics" finger the other party
You're not loving this as much as I do

finally thats all i have been yapping here since and you have been running around mustering up defence..choi
...nothing more to say.....You just helped make my point..thanks for that..
. . . just a question, you get long yarn as defence..lmao..

jeremiah505:
Man.. Are you a sadist?..

nope i love it. . . but you need to do the needful. . we have the joke section for it..

malvisguy212:
Eyes are of no use when the mind is blind.

"The road to hell is paved with good
intentions.” He thought for a moment,
then added: “And lit with electric lights"

hahahahahahaha na so una confuse reach? . . . its just a simple question..
both of you are christians, so you guys should sort yourselves out thats what i asked for. . . reach a conclusion and tell us which is it..

buh this aint the joke section

thats for boys that dont get crushes from girls alot... its just not new to us

this one said

MrPresident1:
OP, heaven and hell are conditions, conditions of human living. We all need to reverse engineer our brains from thinking that heaven is some farfetched eldorado up there in the skies.

Heaven and hell are the presence of God, and His absence respectively. Simply, God is far from the Blackman, this is why his case is pathetic, the present kingdom is the Whiteman's, this is why he is on top. But for everyone who truly seeks God, heaven is accessible.

Many times I am just saddened that at this stage of knowledge evolution, black people have simply refused to evolve.

Let my people GO! Teach my people knowledge, release them from the slavery of religion

PS. https://www.nairaland.com/2193130/heaven-hell
This should help, hopefully.

and then this one said

malvisguy212:
Heaven exists outside the dimensions of both space and time. Asking where heaven exists is a little like asking where the center of the universe is. In fact, the universe doesn't have a center, since everything is moving away from every other thing. The Bible indicates that heaven does not exist in this universe, but is God's abode. In fact, the Bible indicates that even the highest heavens (of this universe) cannot contain God. Since we human beings are restricted to the space time dimensions of this universe, we can never go in a spaceship and find heaven, since it is not any place to which we can travel. However, there is a way to get there.
Isaiah say;
Isaiah 65:17
"See, I will create new heavens and a
new earth. The former things will not be
remembered, nor will they come to
mind.
And John the beloved confirmed it;

Revelation 21:1
Then I saw "a new heaven and a new
earth," for the first heaven and the first
earth had passed away, and there was
no longer any sea.

alright both of you should please tell us which is correct and which to take

MuttleyLaff:
Yes, I have finished for now and especially at that juncture
but you my friend, you're very delusional, as I didnt help you make no point

Has already mentioned severally before, he was taken out, after more than one time of not doing the right thing as expected of him
This is wickedness.
Are you familiar with the inheritance structure set up and widow plights of that era
Do you understand the gravity of his act and the effect to the welfare or quality of life of this widow?

What sort of living with a false sense of triumph are you salivating and cheering on about now?
Facepalm, I give up.

hahahahahahahahaha [size=20] Ok he wasnt killed for shagging his brother's wife many times but just because he chose not to pour inside... [/size]
it is simply very clear..

Oya continue everybody is seeing you glaring twisting tactics, try so hard we know this is not even a debate.... am loving this

MuttleyLaff:
Mr Johny, allow me to repeat myself, once more:
He however was not taken out directly because of the act
but for the selfish thought that he can get way with a pull out plan of "why buy a cow when you can get milk for free"
He was expected to buy the cow, not to milk it free and thereby plan to shy away from his responsibilities


Am sure you are trying to be dishonest here and as usual laying up groundless accusations ...
Remember it was I, who first provided the Genesis 38:6-10 for you to visit for the exact details
and did so without complulsion or being under duress
so let me also zoom your gaze unto "whenever"
Notice, the chap, did this, not JUST once, he did it, more than once, and each time he ploughed the field, he pulled out.
so he wasnt snuffed on the first act, it was after the first.
He enjoyed the thrill a few more times before shown the exit


I can see you pretending not reading the preceding "He was taken out" before the light-hearted heart attack or whatnot
Must you always be this high strung over a light-heartedly made remark?
Must you always assume light-heartedly made remarks are lies to defend the bible?

We all are going to be TAKEN OUT at some point in time
Death is inevitable, and the way we go out irrelevant
Chill my friend

hahahahaha have you finished ? after all this you still helped me make my point. . .

[size=20] He was taken out for not spilling into his brother's wife right[/size] .. hahahahaha chai bible oooo

MuttleyLaff:
You rarely miss a chance of this sort to scoff and challenge
Know you havent grown dull.
Nor are your ears hard of hearing or you had your eyes closed when you read the response

He was taken out because of wickedness, just as his elder brother, earlier was, taken out for being wicked

and his wickedness was pulling out instead of ejaculation in his brother's wife ...right?

MuttleyLaff:
Come to think of it, he likely had an heart attack, died of fright or got scared to death of being found out
Visit Genesis 38:6-10 for the exact details

Am sure you are trying to be dishonest here and as usual lie for god...
lets see the cause of his death..

genesis 38:8-10
8Then Judah said to Onan, “Sleep with your brother’s wife and fulfill
your duty to her as a brother-in-law to raise up offspring for your
brother.” But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so
[size=20]whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the
ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. What he
did was wicked in the LORD’s sight; so the LORD put him to death
also.[/size]

Now what is this your talk of possible heart attack or fear. . . Must you always assume up lies to defend the bible?

MuttleyLaff:
Everything in the pic is true.
He however was not taken out directly because of the act
but for the selfish thought that he can get way with a pull out plan of "why buy a cow when you can get milk for free"
He was expected to buy the cow, not to milk it free and thereby plan to shy away from his responsibilities

and so had to be killed right?

Do not loose faith in humanity.... Help even the tiniest most insignificant being, whenever, however you can... That is our own little way of being super heroes... Do not let an opportunity to help slip by when you know you can help

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unphilaz:
You mean a "gut" feeling (MIND) that is so fleeting as the situation changes? i wont brag a fluid mind set and claim its a standard for emulation. Rather i will be sober and considerate.

Am not so sure you understand what atheism means, just add your own meaning and spin words around... stop trying too hard. . . this is not a debate.

NumberOne2:
Hmmm, Experimentation, Observation are some of the foundations of Science. You are a scientist. You are far from being an Atheist. There is NO reality in Atheism.

How are you sure the perceived realities have not been modified?
Example, the movie MATRIX. They were all living their lives until they took the RED pill and saw reality.

So how can you rely on your eyes to show reality?
Example, some folks are colour blind and see RED as GREEN. So is it really GREEN or RED?

To a true Atheist, nothing is certain, even perceived realities.

please define atheism?