₦airaland Forum

An2elect2:
You still do not get it. All of us inherited the nature of sin from Adam (not the consequent punishment for his disobedience). Why? because we all sinned in Adam! Now, i don't even expect you to understand that.

But that's the truth

Am sure this doesnt even make sense to you a bit but you have no choice.

Am sure you never remembered eating an apple with adam cus honey you didnt, you were not in existence.

Someone that blames you and accuses you of being an accomplice in an act you know nothing about basically is totally flawed.

I ask again, since you think u were in Adam who allegedly was the first human then you must also have been in your father.

So is it right to punish you for the sins your father committed

An2elect2:
God did not create man to rebel against Him but to give Him glory.

An omnipotent, omniscient and perfect being needs people that will be giving glory? What does giving glory add or remove from something perfect. . Its a character flaw to be demanding love and worship all the worse threaten the people if they fail to give it.

An2elect2:
God created man good but He did not create him as a perfect being. Hence his fall. Only God is perfect. To create a perfect being is like creating another God which is not possible.

Lets get this straight.

He created an imperfect man (even tho he is perfect and i am wondering how perfection can bore out imperfection.)

He created imperfect man

Knowing fully well that imperfect man has a tendency to sin, he was expecting imperfect man to be perfect when he created man to be imperfect.

Then blames man who acted according his imperfect nature which god created. . Who really is the cause here. .

Was it the Perfect being that made an imperfect being or the imperfect being acting on his nature as made by the perfect being.

How can perfection bring forth imperfection.

Wait a minute, god is supposed to be omniscient meaning he already knew all this would happen trillions of years before they did. . Now it begs me to ask "Who then is at fault here?

and how come he was surprised man fell when he must have known trillions of years before it happened?

how come he was expecting man not to sin when he must have known man will sin even before creating man.

An2elect2:
God in His infinite wisdom put all of us in Adam. We were all in Adam when he sinned and what we inherited was not the punishment for His personal sin but the nature of than sin, disobedience.

So it is ok to blame you for the sin your father committed

An2elect2:
You are a mortal and a man. Are you omnipresent?
The God that i serve is. All things are before Him. And He has found it pleasing to reveal Himself to me through Christ Jesus our Lord. That is why i know Him.
Comprende?

Now this is funny. . . You have never perceived this allegedly omnipresent being with your conscious mind. . but through a dude you dont even know, that they wrote once lived in the middle east.

Lol ok lets say you know who Jesus is, tell us; Does he have a long or short hair?

An2elect2:
All sins deserve eternal death

I said we became sin or took on us the nature of sin as a result of the fall of Adam. Adam was a man that disobeyed God and hence sinned against God. Man's disobedience brought in sin or you can say, sin started from man. God did not create sin.

Al sins deserve eternal punishment? sorry to say this but dear you have a very sickening sense of morality. Since you can actually conceive humans burning forever and be ok with it. .

I hope when you have kids, prepare a burning room in the basement for them, push them in there if any of them does something wrong. . that'd be a very good way to emulate your god and he is a moral giver therefore it is the right thing to do.

So you inherited the sin of adam that you know nothing about?

You became sin because some dude sinned?

Your god bore this same grudge of adam's sin right from the beginning till now? ( Now isn't that a long time to bear a grudge? thats another character flaw. .)

even to the extent of condemning a day old child as a sin because of some adam.

So you think it is right to blame the sin of the father on the son who doesnt even have any idea what it is?

You still helping show more of ur god's character flops that wows me..

An2elect2:
Look i don't even know you, know about you not to talk of knowing you in yourself.

I know God because i have a relationship with Him.

Lmao you know god right? Now i will like you to tell us what it looks like?

An2elect2:
And there he goes. He thinks his opinion matters. Hahahahuhuhu You don't know the source of human morality. Big joker!

Oh No it certainly doesnt matter because you have a very sick moral basis based on the guilts you were indoctrinated to bear. . . Its quite a pitiable state.

And the laughs is a very huge way to show you dont even know what to say

An2elect2:
Yes we can safely agree that it is their fault if they perish. All men deserve to perish anyway cos of our sin/sins. But all those who seek God would find mercy.

Can you please point out one of this sins that deserves eternal punishment?

An2elect2:
is our own doing not God's. And so we deserve alienation from God for it. johnydon22

Just a few moments ago you asserted sin was a nature, human nature to be precise. . and according to u "god" created humans therefore he created this sin. .

An2elect2:
God is the basis of all human morality. He has placed in all men a law/ conscience that subconciously guides us in knowing what is right and wrong in our natural environment.

lmao, even when he lacks basic morality himself.
With our own human morality we find it immoral to punish a finite sin with an infinite punishment, so ur god fails woefully compared to a basic human sense of morality.

Morality is human, it belongs to no ism. It depends on no book, creed or supernatural for foundation because morality itself is a foundation.

An2elect2:
I do not find it wrong for God to punish sin eternally. In short it is very right for God to do so going by who He is and what sin is.

[size=20] There we have it. . . Congratulations for that [/size] You just proved my assertion that you lack basic human morality.

An2elect2:
Ive answered this. Yes. And lol at "independent basis of morality" When there is God ?

Well judging from what i see your sense of morality learnt from this god is very sick. . . I find it unimaginable that a human could conceive others burning forever and be fine with that, you have no right to ever criticize anybody who hurts fellow humans with this your type of mindset because yours is worse.

An2elect2:
My God is not a minister of sin and Christianity upholds morality to its peak. The old testament was a symbol of the new. You wont understand that.

Oh yes just like your god wiped out all the little children in the world, thats a very good show of morality there.

An2elect2:
huhuhuhuhu

Everything that happened then was for a purpose and men do not deserve to live the next second. Your being alive, is because God is good and merciful not because you are good humanist or moralist. LOL. If God should judge you based on what you have done now, it is goodbye to you.

And there you go. bla bla bla

This is the part i shake my head and #Sighs.

An2elect2:
You don't get it.

To sin is to rebel against God. And a direct affront to His Sovereignty! We are not talking of a creature doing harm to another creature but sin against the Creator. What right or power do we really have to harm people in the most gruesome way for a petty crime they committed? none. We are all at the mercy of God. And in God's eyes, we all fall short equally.

Rebelling is an act,same you said in a post above that "sin is a nature an not an act" I think you don't even grasp what is it you believe. . or do you adopt different definitions at different times to suit your point at that particular moment?.

So you are not even talking about moral/immoral act against fellow humans . . .

An2elect2:
You are viewing sin in a shallow way. Well, you are an atheist after all and as far as you are concerned sin is mere wrong doing and nothing much and therefore should be "merely punished"

A moral act: Is one that decreases individual human suffering, and/or betters the societal well being, justice, freedom and equality.

An immoral act: Is one that increases individual human suffering and is a detriment to societal well being, justice, freedom and equality.

A sin: Is one that violates religious doctrines or "god's will" whether that act is moral or not.

That you consider something a sin has no moral weight on it.

In the human society an immoral act is punished squarely but even this basic human justice shows humans are far better in handling moral matters than your god.

An2elect2:
But look, sin is more than that. I will tell you why. Mercy is given to Him that ask! Sin causes men NOT TO ASK for mercy. When God said seek me and you will find me, He means everything that He said. That is the only way to find God is to seek Him. Now, the eternal punishment rests on those who will never ask God for mercy or seek Him. And since they will never do this, they will have to bear the consequences of never doing it. Is this logical? yes.

So it is logically right for ur god to eternally punish the ones that dont beg for forgiveness, you see such egoistic act is Narcissism and Narcissism is a character flaw.
From all you said up there it is clear that its all about ego. . . Am sure you wouldn't forgive ur child unless he asks.

Everything you are saying shows you dont even regard human morality but your god's ego.

An2elect2:
God does not forgive men for nothing. Mercy must go with Justice and none will surpass the other.

Mercy and Justice can never go together.

Justice is punishment for a fitted crime

mercy is forgoing justice.

Yet ur god's action falls in neither. . . Eternal punishment doesnt fit a finite sin therefore not justice.

Punishment is not mercy there it still evades mercy.

An2elect2:
The bible talks of an everlasting punishment of sinners. And says they'll burn day and night, for ever and ever. If i understand that right, it is saying an unending punishment for sin.

I don't know how that is going to happen but i know the bible does not teach annihilation of men's souls.

Now, the bible says God is not pleased with the death of a sinner and it is not something i should rejoice over too. But God cannot compromise His standards which are borne out of His nature. Its either God compromises His holy nature and takes back His Word (which can never happen) or He stands by what He is: unchanging.

The bolded is exactly what am saying. . .

Justice means when a punishment fits the crime. Would you punish your child for a year for a sin he committed in a day? or let me rephrase it. . Would you burn your child for 24 hours over an offense he committed in a minute?

How then do you find it right and just to punish a finite sin with an infinite punishment?

An2elect2:
As a christian, which is my first identity, i uphold what my God has said is right. And all my thoughts and opinions and beliefs are aligned to the word of God. And i live for His glory

This shows a typical religious mindset. . . So even when you find something not right to you as long as your god indulges in it then it is right. . . This shows you dont really have a basis of human morality. . .

An2elect2:
At 1st bolded. What i think can never supersede what is. If i think i will make an A in a course and i eventually make a B. Does it matter again that i thought i would score A?

Can you cut the chase and say if you find it to be right or not.

An2elect2:
2nd bold: Did i set the rule? The God that i serve is a holy God and cannot behold iniquity.

You basically lack independent basis of morality.

I take it to mean that if you see somewhere in the bible where it stipulates killing is ok (even tho many verses says this) then automatically killing must be moral to you. .

From the way you are avoiding the question, am sure you find the situation to be unjust from your own human perspective but since god is doing it, and in other not to defy him then it must be right.

This was exactly how one of you told me in one of my threads that "The infacticide committed in the flood fable must be good" I think their is need for re-evaluation of your moral foundation.

An2elect2:
And i noticed you think sin is an act. Not. It is the nature of all men as a result of the fall of Adam. Simply put, sin is not just an act but a nature. We are sin ourselves.

So human nature is sin? You people need to check what is it you really worship, is it an imaginary guilt sold to you or fear.

A god that blames the sin of one man on every other lacks basic morality. It still begs the question, Is it right to blame another for the sin of another?

And human nature being sin, it is right then to say your god created sin.

An2elect2:
When God says no to evil for ever, He is also saying no to evil doers for ever.

And so it is right to punish a finite sin with an infinite punishment yes?

I think even with the same yardstick human morality is measured this god failed in it.

An2elect2:
Okay let me just say i didn't see the finite.

Is it right? you asked. Who determines what is right?

. . Lmao, so you cannot determine what you think to be right?. . Then it is right to say you are not human.

Speaking as a human with empathy; Do you see it ok by you to punish a finite sin with an infinte punishment?

An2elect2:
finite sin? pls where did you get that from? can you quote the passage in the bible where sin is described as finite pls?

Am sure you know what Finite means.

Now human life is finite because it ends, at most 100 years or more.

Now you think it is right to punish a sin committed in a life span of 100 or

200 years even 10,000 years with a punishment that spans eternity?

Is this really justice to you?

An2elect2:
am talking of eternal punishment and you are talking of nepal? pls stick to the topic

Is it right to punish a finite sin with an infinite punishment?

An2elect2:
am talking of eternal punishment and you are talking of
nepal? pls stick to the topic

So your god see it fine to punish them eternally because they chose the wrong belief?

KoloOyinbo:
Yes OHHHHHH!

That's what the babes are for and God made Irishmen to toast em!

AND if you look at this gals profile pic... well all I can say is NA WA!

.

Irishman Ke?
You deh miss oo.. na we naija guys get then pass ooo...

But the girl fine shaaa

KoloOyinbo:
Why thank YOU!
And I love hot babes who love the Irish!!! (See, definitely KOLO)
Shall dream of dimpled babes and kai kai tonight!

You don deh toast am oooo chai...

wiegraf:
WTF!!!
Need to look close....I hope that's a 'shop

i really hope so

KoloOyinbo:
For Jayriginal

"Well let's move beyond that for now. At least we understand ourselves.

For the next argument, im going to assume (without conceding) that atheists believe that there is no God. How does that make it a religion?

Please make your argument on the other thread."

OK My thoughts (remember I am undecided on this point just interested in debating it) are as follows:

You require as much FAITH to believe that there is no God as to believe that there is. Just an opposite FAITH but neither point of view can be substantiated.

Only the agnostic is free of FAITH as they have the rational point that there is (and can be) no evidence either way - therefore they simply do not know. This is rational and has logic and is actually laudable!

As I said in another post (rather tongue in cheek) "I will pray very hard for God to make me an Agnostic!"

Let me cut this short to fully demonstrate the atheist position.

I say: I believe their is a flying pink horse ( belief requires faith)

You say: I don't believe you, prove it.. ( Can you detect any faith in this?)

now

You say: Their is a God (You believe by faith)

An atheist says : I don't believe you, prove it. (Meaning atheists lack faith)

So you see, Atheist lack belief in every God concepts. . .Just like you lack

faith in the God Thor, this doesn't mean you need faith to disbelieve Thor.

If you contrast your lack of belief in other God concepts that you are

atheistic towards, then you will fully understand the atheist position.

It is obvious why the SA police and government showed aloofness in this xenophobia case. . . am starting to think they support it. . Can you imagine

Can you see the smile on the police man's face

FOLYKAZE:
What is the difference between god and deity? I don die i swear.

In apotheosis, MAN IS DEITY

we hail almighty gallery of a theater

When you stop mixing up to distinct concepts then you will be taken seriously ..

FOLYKAZE:
Erm. . . .

Atheism is disbelief in God.

God can be defined as influencial person.

Do you as an atheist disbelief in God (defined as influencial personality)?

This is where importance of definition relies

Remember God can also be defined as The gallery in a theater

That the gallery in a theater is called God doesnt mean it to be a deity.

That an influencial person is called God doesnt make that person a deity.

Some people that read the story i write call me a God in writing, this doesnt make me a deity.

The definition of God as regard influencial person or a gallery in a theater is VERY different from the definition of God in the religious or lets say deital sense. . . So please stop mixing them up.

FOLYKAZE:
Agreeing and acknowledge is knowledge.

Knowledge is a justifed belief.

So you cannot runaway from belief bro.

Meanwhile, I said most atheists and not all tend to answer existence question through darwinism.

That is my point

. . Knowledge. . Dictionary. .

The fact of knowing about something; general understanding or familiarity with a subject, place, situation etc. [from 14th c.]

Awareness of a particular fact or situation; a state of having been informed or made aware of something. [from 14th c.]

Intellectual understanding; the state of appreciating truth or information. [from 14th c.]

Familiarity or understanding of a particular skill, branch of learning etc. [from 14th c.]

You should say, most atheists you know not most atheists in a broader sense. . Many theists i know also buy into scientific evolution theory though i always say I don't know

FOLYKAZE:
Hey boss, you missing my point here.
Here is a scope of religion: as a social institution, religion is a pattern of social action organized around the beliefs and practices that people develop to answer questions about the meaning of existence.

To most atheists, the meaning of existence lies in darwinism which makes their point of view different from the creation view

This is where you are wrong, many theists still buy the theory of evolution, which is a scientific study and not a belief... Understand that.
Agreeing with a scientific fact doesnt make it a belief or doctrine.

Secondly; Most atheist say I don't know When faced with the question of how life began.

Many only think that scientific methods should be used in solving questions. .

doxime:
you forgot to add that they were bicycle repairers.

Thanks for adding that

Cc. Seun, lalasticala, ishilove

A picture of Orville wright going on the first ever on the first aeroplane ever made. .

Fun fact: The government sponsored scientist who was funded by the government to make a flying machine, gave up and said it cannot be done, Just one month later the wright brothers without sponsor flew the first aeroplane

Shows the least interest in politics and works hard to make the best out of scraps literally . . . Wonderful !!!