₦airaland Forum

UyiIredi:
He didn't address my point. So he gave 'non-answers'.



Sure ring speciation proves speciation. In fact, it is speciation. What it is not is evidence of evolution particularly as it relates to universal common descent.



Random mutations generate new features irrespective of the environment. This is a poor excuse.



My point is that beneficial mutations are too rare to be a good mechanism for evolution.



What is the basis for the assumption that similarities in DNA sequences is evidence of common descent ?



Convergent evolution deals with similar structures in different species. You misunderstand your theory.



And where did I say evolution is a random process ?



If you think CoolUsername refuted my points then your ability to reason properly must be called into question.

like I said I would have liked to iron this thing out with you but I don't really have time for back and forth arguments. If I'm less busy I'll look at your points objectively. You should know you are basically shifting the goal post on speciation anyway ring species is like a mid point. It is a gradual thing. And by the way why do you attack both gnostic thiests aged evolutionists upandan. But you said some of your points haven't been answered so that's why I assumed you were good with most. So you mislead me. But anyway
Some animals with extreme genetic similarities breed so easily.as they drift apart it becomes harder until they can't breed atall
Like this set of images below. But the annoying thing is that you guys would always say it's micro. Until the day a species completely changes this theory would remain the most controversial theory in science. And concerning DNA and common descent you should realise that there are branches of biology that focus on that extensively

ValentineMary:
Viral DNA is the DNA of virus. Ans it shows that DNA were not selectively put together.

You know that u have to be a bacteria to speak so authoritatively about how it feels? And moreover I said these are modified by evolution into specialized organs that carry out functions more accurately.

lol that dude said speciation is limited. But we have ring species. Wooooooooooow asin the thing shock me

Well CoolUsername has answered most of this
But get something clear OP ring species alone is 100% proof of speciation. Small changes would accumulate into big changes
Ring species happens when a species has split into several populations, some of which cannot interbreed, but some of which can breed with two or more populations that cannot breed with each other.
Ring species constitute strong evidence that evolution does indeed happen, it was PREDICTED by evolution and is extremely strongly supportive of the theory
That first point is just off
The second point is off too because it has been explained!!
morphological adaptations are not selected in a stable environment. although evolution predicts that species can change, it does not require that species must change
Plus the lungfish that is also a living fossil is able to breathe with their lungs and can live out of water for fairly long periods. This shows creationists are wrong when they argue that a fish could not survive without gills while its lungs were evolving. Fish did not lose their gills till their lungs were fully evolved. Some lungfish are more adapted to water and others to land
This already throws the number 3 point out the window
How would you say beneficial mutations are rarer. Are you assuming mutation is only advantageous to the species??. This is wrong mutations will always exist in a species but environmental changes would make the species with the already existing mutation more likely to survive. DNA supports evolution more than refutes it
Why?
The structures and functions of all living organisms are encoded in the same basic nucleic molecules, DNA and RNA. Similarities in amino acid sequences between various organisms also show common descent, and the fossil record also shows cases in which one plant or animal type evolved into different types over time
Common design isn't right cuz when we look at the DNA sequences in those shared by the shark and the camel, also two different "Kinds", we see different DNA sequences, as would be expected in the case of convergent evolution, but completely inconsistent with what pattern one would expect from a common designer. If common design were the case, we should either see identical DNA sequences in all proteins or difference sequences for each "Kind", not a pattern that shows common ancestry where evolution needs it and convergence where it would otherwise falsify common ancestry.
Plus evolution is not a random process
Stop.mixing natural selection with genetic drift
I don't really have time to start explaining every point. I just hope I've been able to maybe some things clear to you cuz learning never ends
CoolUsername has refuted most of this anyway soo my work here is done

The video was uploaded early October and it has been debunked

hahn:
It is not only the ignorance. It is also the need to believe no matter what.

The Nigerian education system is failed. Most of us who know these things read about them after leaving school. Many Nigerians only read when they need to prepare for an examination.

As Tai Solarin would say, "Knowledge is light. Ignorance is darkness"

so true

[quote author=hopefulLandlord post=50869083][/quote]lol you should know thiests by now

hopefulLandlord:
obviously, she doesn't

lol they are confused in all works of life

hahn:
Religion is for the unintelligent who have problems facing reality thus the need to rely on fairy tales and superstition

some of them even go as far as saying Noahs ark happened
If this is not ignorant I don't know what is

felixomor:
Sorry bros, he is not an atheist. Period.

All we know is he goes to church with his family
And that is better than your nairaland atheism religion.

I agreed with you on that do I don't see you point

JackBizzle:
Oshogbo weed gives clarity.


By the way, Bill Gates has previously said that going to church is a waste of time- that it is not effective.

Sooo....

well honestly though
bill gates did say that some time ago although religion is practised in his household
But as of his regards to religion this was what he recently stated in the screenshot below
You guys always keep dragging the poor man to your side
Lets settle this bill gates nonsense once and for all
From that comment he sounds more like a diest or agnostic thiest then a legitimate christian. He said he agrees with Richard Dawkins mankind needed to make creation myths
Bill gates is agnostic. christians Felixomor and his pals
But an agnostic thiest plus he practices religion
Can we hear word on the bill gates issue now

Lol jesus had two dads
Mohammed married a nine year old
Hehe
Abrahamic religions and confusion

Lennycool:
I was just amazed at this religion. It proves that the human mind can believe anything, these guys have been waiting for 60 years.
You should read the Smithsonian page its epic

lol they go wait tire like christians that have been deceiving themselves from generation to generation upandan for 2000 years now and we still won't hear word

This dude it's like you have time on your hands oo

naijadeyhia:
Pls share with Nairaland this natural concept of morality.

Make i grab some popcorn and watch the show.

here we go again......

hopefulLandlord:
lol

na today you just dey know these people?

they'll tell you those guys aren't Christians but turn around and say Christians form huge population in the world

they'll tell you Christians have more Nobel prizes, have more billionaires but quickly backtrack when these kinda facts are presented to them, they'll now start defining "Christian"; saying those guys aren't

I swear an American scientist while practically researching could blow up his lab and 5 houses killing 50 people in the process; if through this process he discovers renewable energy that'll last us 200 millennia; these Christian apologists would in one breath call him a Christian and deny he's a Christian in same breath

they just want to eat their cake and have it

an unadulterated case of intellectual dishonesty

lol these people
Anybody that is not a christian is of the devil
-athiest
-diest
-agnostic
-pantheist
-muslim
-SBNR
Your post actually just summarised what they do basically. They add and remove christians from the religion when it suits them

I've also dreamt about rapture too
Make we hear word

naijadeyhia:
Just in case you missed it...sirwere used that term and not me...I focused on the law of natural selection which is more *trendy*

Besides the law of natural selection isnt minimalistic on the contrary it can be applied to any or every aspect of humanity in an insane manner. It could be applied to tribalism, nepotism, Geographical location, has been the cause of wars more often than not...

I think you should have directed this comment to sirwere and not to me. Thank you very much.

lol okay I apologize his behalf. But you are comparing natural selection to social Darwinism. This is wrong.Darwin did not extend his theories to a social or economic level and credible evolutionists do not subscribe to the theories of Social Darwinism. It is a tattered and loosely based premise you even said it yourself it is an insane version of natural selection, a warped view. a circular argument at best. A group that gains power can claim to be the "best fit" because it is in power, but then the group claims to be in power because it is the "best fit" that doesn't mean the group is actually the best fit. This is circular reasoning. Social Darwinism isn't natural selection.
But the summary of the "can you be good without god argument" that has refused to die down is that, moral facts can be determined by carefully observing objective facts about people and the world they live in. This means moral facts is in a class with natural facts and this basically contradicts the divine command theory of arbitrary morality by God The only proof of this is kind of morality is basically because God said so and this is still circular reasoning. It is an assumption. It makes morality more of a dictatorship because only the Divine Leader can decide what is wrong, and naturally he defines any criticism of himself, no mater how valid, morally wrong. Genocide can be justifiable with divine command.
So.basically if I lie to save an innocent life. Like keeping a Jew in nazi Germany God says or rather commands lying is wrong but in that case I was doing it for the greater good

naijadeyhia:
I advice you go back and read about the law of natural selection and understand it. Then superimpose that over humanity then come back and repeat your comment.

the concept should be more of survival and differential reproduction of the fittest. Survival of the fittest is circular reason at best and it isn't even used by evolutionary biologists there are a population of humans in a remote location
some of them are agile, they work hard and that are fast and catch gazelles
The other half sit around and are lazy
The hard working humans would store enough energy to reproduce and raise offspring. Some generations later those would be the dominant humans you'll find fewer lazy humans this is natural selection
Survival of the fittest term is problematic

naijadeyhia:
Why are you always all over the place and always jumping on the Abrahamic God bandwagon. ....Do you think I did not anticipate the response sirwere would give? I deliberately asked him about the LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR AS YOURSELF moral guide and he fell for the bait and nailed himself with his own comment.

If Morality evolved it shold have followed the law of natural selection and survival of the fittest route but man didn't follow that route..Anyone who tows that line today is seen as a maniac and a psycopath.

Abeg I am a very outspoken person so you may feel I take things personal when I do not.

Thanks for your time but try not to attempt carrying oit cosmetic repairs to sirweres post..its already fixed.

lol you see?? You are misunderstanding the survival of the fittest term. It is not a barbaric methodology
Plus religious morality is objective. What's moral in some religions isn't in others

Do you know what you guys are just doing
"pot calling kettle black"
I'm just looking like

naijadeyhia:
Variany is a form of something that differs slightly but largly the same from the same source.

I can say I cooked beans and rice and ate and you can say I cooked beans, rice and added eggs an ate does that mean I did not eat beans and rice too?

pls trying to twist what he wrote wouldnt work . If All religions have a variant of this golden rule the bottom line is that its ALL RELIGIONS that have it.

LIVE AND LET LIVE isnt an evolutionary strenght as evolution is about survival of the fittest and since a lot of you giys believe morality evolved and evolutionary morality differs from what he said who then is lying? Isbit me?

I suggest you clear your head and draw inference from everything just like I did before focusing on this comment.

Lol you mustn't take everything personal though. Because it is a variant in every religion doesn't mean it came from the Abrahamic God. Morality and religion are similar no doubt but morality is a universal constant
Look at it this way
You guys always claim morality comes from God.. If that is true that should means morality is a fundamental property. It surpasses space time and existance just like God
Right and wrong has always been and will always be
But the Abrahamic God doesn't apply this.his morality is arbitrary in other words he is a bad messenger of morality but morality is above him
A good example was when he wanted to destroy all the Israelites for worshipping a golden calf. This was arbitrary. Moses talked him out of it. Are you seeing the problem here. For Moses to able to judge Yahweh's actions alone shows that God is inconsistent with and within his own morality
which means he is not a reflection of that morality cuz it is not a reflection of what he preached
And if you want to say jesus' did away with all that you are basically contradicting Gods omniscience after all "he is the same yesterday today and forever"
This is special pleading at it's finest
If I create beings that I can piss on, and kill in so many ways does that mean I'm not a dick for doing all of this??
If you justify it you're basically saying "God is Good, and Good is to be like God". You guys cam basically support the holocaust if it was commanded by God
Kim jung un punishes people for transgressions up to the third generation
The Abrahamic God supposedly punished every generation of mankind to come for the transgressions of one man
Changing the name doesn't make it any less better
His morality is useless and arbitrary

[quote author=naijadeyhia post=50855882]Variany is a form of something that differs slightly but largly the same from the same source.

I can say I cooked beans and rice and ate and you can say I cooked beans, rice and added eggs an ate does that mean I did not eat beans and rice too?

pls trying to twist what he wrote wouldnt work . If All religions have a variant of this golden rule the bottom line is that its ALL RELIGIONS that have it.

LIVE AND LET LIVE isnt an evolutionary strenght as evolution is about survival of the fittest and since a lot of you giys believe morality evolved and evolutionary morality differs from what he said who then is lying? Isbit me?

I suggest you clear your head and draw inference from everything just like I did

SirWere:
and how did you come to the conclusion at the bolded

Easy, easy, don't rush into Hasty conclusions

lol he doesn't know the meaning of "variant" obviously

SirWere:
Dude, seeing is believing.


Besides, Atheists are not asking for extradionarily spectacular miracles when you consider the great feats wrought by God in the religious texts.

We have talking donkeys, Impossibly constructed arks, A sea parting, pillars of fire, the SUN stopping for a DAY; dead people rising, the moon being split in half and all those claims.


Simple question :

You have done it before.
Do it again

the worst is just that ark one

Biblical morality takes massive amounts of special pleading from christians who insist that morality can only come from the Bible. They are very happy to follow some rules (shunning gay men) but not others (selling their daughters into slavery, stoning disobedient children, and eating shellfish) — even though the Bible(plus God), which they claim can be the only source of their moral decision making, is quite silent on what parts of it you can happily ignore.
Lol
Comedy

KingEbukasBlog:
You are judging the Supreme Being by human moral standards Seems perfectly logical

Anyway , this is a perfect rebuttal for this nonsense : https://www.nairaland.com/3031728/reasons-why-god-not-subject

hmm I checked the link to see
Sooo lemme get this straight you're basically saying
-morality comes from god(an assumption)
-so i guess this should mean Gods actions are a reflections of the preached morality.
-but yahweh violates his own moral code. Killing is wrong but it's justifiable when God does it
This is special pleading at its finest and most subtle.If we can judge God to be inconsistent with and within his own morality then he is not a reflection of that morality cuz it is not a reflection of what he preached
Since the Abrahamic God is inconsistent with even the most basic of his own moral code he is likely not the founder of morality. The concept of morality is above him. In other words his morality is arbitrary
Since he violates his own codes most of the time not for any justifiable reason he is basically a dick
If you are saying morality comes from God that means morality is God
Right and wrong has always existed cuz God has always existed and is absolutely moral. Therefore morality is a fundental property
It can't change. But it did. Drastically in the new testament. An all knowing entity is basically perfect and doesn't need any adjustment whatsoever. If you say he "changed" you are contradicting his omniscience and perfection. After all "he is the same yesterday today and forever" At least you guys like saying the bible is infallible and that very statement was taken from it. Gnostic thiests don't want to accept this anyway.
Lets say i breed ants. They have emotions. They feel pain and joy. They share ideas. Some even start worshipping me
It basically means i can do whatever i want with them. I can piss on them, light them on fire and kill them in soooo many creative ways. But it'll be okay cuz i made them so I'm not a total dick for messing them up like that
Lol are you serious
Lol since God defines morality it is arbitrary
Don't you remember the golden calf incident when God wanted to destroy all the Israelites but was talked out of it by Moses
Do you want to say that wasn't arbitrary . If Moses knew that was wrong that should really tell you something about the arbitrariness of Gods killing and so called moral foundation
Sentencing the entire human race to death because of Adam is arbitrary
Abeg how do gnostic thiests have mouth to decry the holocaust sef They would basically support it if God
commanded it. If God is morality then morality is a fundamental property
Since God is perfect his morality is perfect
Which means....
Everything in the old testament applies now
Jesus didn't change jacksh*t
Dude morality is universal. Yahweh is simply a horrible messanger.
There is no justifiable reason for punishing an entire human race because of the sins of one man
Kim jong un does a similar punishment in
north Korea
Changing the name to God just to justify such an act is useless
You gnostic thiests can't just eat your cake and have it too nawa oo wetin dey do una
You claim Gods morality is perfect and then since God has always been and his morality is a fundamental property it is not subject to any adjusemt or change(which isn't even true cuz in the old testament he was assigning rules upandan completely arbitrarily) Then you now want to counter this with jesus
Lol comedy

johnydon22:
lol here we go again with naive arguments poorly represented.

lol these people are tiring

theoneJabulani:
u misread my post, am referring to the theists

ooh so sorry bro I just realised too
Really sorry

theoneJabulani:
see them gasping at straws, d funny thing is that isreal is not even a Christian. ation

lol you can go and check for yourself
its like you don't realise where I said I thought it was real too
Your problem not mine
Chao

Aaronsrod:
Your disobedience and blasphemy will bring death and calamity upon you and your family. Get deliverance. Avoid hellfire. Our God is a man of war!!

that is obviously what is keeping you in line fear of imaginary hell fire
If you actually think that a loving god would turn somebody to living suya because of something as trivial stupid and unimportant as a lack of belief in him then you need to have your moral code checked as well as your brain cells

That video was posted in early October and it has been debunked as a hoax by a popular youtuber who edits pictures
It was also said to be a lie by fellow isreali citizens who said such an event didn't occur due to the fact that it was only observed by one person who edited the videos. I honestly hate to piss on your party I was actually hoping it was a real thing too but you should really try to achieve some things in your life rather than looking to the sky for a creator that all eyes would see on a spherical earth
Lol
Comedy

ever811:
if God can create the whole universe with his word, how can't your brain carry you as far as realizing that,such one can make anything happens according to his will?..he can put the whole animals and planet I a coke bottle if I want..he told moses that he will wipe away all the Israelites and use only Moses to fulfill his promise of making Abraham offsprings a great nation..that's one not two animals..all you find impossible as a human are little things for the great one who has given you the brain that you are using against him now..listen to what God said in the bible...... your ways are not my ways ,neighter your thoughts my thoughts.. as the heavens is far from the earth so are my ways far away from the son of man..my dear the more we claim to know that's when we know nothing...

for real bro
For real