The Eddie Long story created an opportunity to discuss homosexuality and the church. Eddie Long is not and cannot be the only pastor or man in power at a church engaging in such acts. The issue is not only what he did, but also discussing the larger problems which are involved here. This opportunity may have been missed by just focusing on Eddie Long, although what he is accused of doing is also terrible.

This is sad and unfortunate but it happens more often than we know. Many people refuse to give their children medicine or seek treatment when they are sick because they believe their prayers will heal them. In the end the children wind up dying and the parents end up in prison. All very unfortunate.

@Jesoul I love that example of the biggest loser. People do not realize the power of the church in encouraging people to healthy behavior. The doctor may say it but sometimes it means so much more coming from the church community. With obesity and so many chronic illnesses like diabetes and hypertension going out of control, church initiatives have been found to be quite effective!

[b]There has been alot of criticism of churches on this website. However, not all churches are led by corrupt leaders. Some churches actually do great things in their communities as well as with their congregations. These churches are places of refuge during times of crisis and the church leaders serve as pillars of strength and lead by example. These churches fulfill the commands of Jesus to clothe the naked, feed the poor, and help those who suffer. Churches are at the forefront of helping to reduce disease in many communities by teaching congregation members about healthy life practices, exercise, proper nutrition, health check ups, etc. They also assist with fixing one's finances, buying a home, marital issues, etc. What is wrong with this?

Not all churches are mega churches looking to steal people's money, and this distinction must be made. To paint broad strokes that all churches are corrupt would be inaccurate.

Does anyone here belong to a church that should be commended for what it is doing?[/b]

Church is not a joke. Some people have learned how to use it to exploit others, but you can find this in any area of life business, relationships, etc. Human beings are behind churches and so some human beings are just corrupt. The institution of church does many great things in the community and for its congregations. So, it is wrong to make this false conclusion.

@Joagbaje Can you please explain what you are trying to say? That God does not have to protect anyone? What then is the purpose of having this God? If God does not protect anyone or intervene in times of greatest need does it not lend to the argument that either this God is not there in the way described? Most fathers would protect their children when they are in danger.

@knowjack you sound like you have done all that is being suggested to you. I am sure you have tried your hardest. I have struggled with your situation. I chose to divorce and it was the best thing that I ever did. My ex and I were not compatible, it just was not going to work no matter what.

Divorce is a tough choice, but it is a choice. It is an option that you have. You made a mistake. Do not feel like you are trapped in prison for life and do not stay out of fear. My life is much better after unloading that dysfunctional and unhealthy situation.

@frosbel are you asking about the God of Christianity or any God?

you write"But, again, without God man has only this world.  Getting smoothly through this life is no guarantee that we are ready for the afterlife."

However, buddhists, muslims, hindus, etc all have their own belief of an afterlife and maybe cannot live without their god's but they can live without yours.  Some still believe in an afterlife and a god but do not need organized religion to do so.  So, I am not sure I understand your question.

@davidylan Times have changed. It is not bad to have child care in church, it makes sense because small children can be quite disruptive in the service. Having state of the art technology is also not bad. These things in and of themselves are fine, and if it gets people in the door that is even better. What matters is what happens once they are in the door. This is where pastors need to be held accountable. The word of God can reach different people in different ways, and as time goes on churches must adjust to the times and the wishes of the people. Once they are in the doors, that is what is important.

WHAT!? This is all very interesting and food for thought. The fact that he says he will just not return the money is criminal. Are there any laws against this?

Man can live without the god of the bible. And oftentimes it is better that they do. Because the bible is solely based on the interpretation of the reader, some who have interpreted it in a negative way, have created a god that instructs or compels them to do terrible things. This god, man can live without.

When looked at literally, turning water into wine or making a cripple person walk, it is unlikely that miracles will be seen.

However, true miracles are expressions of Love that cause changes in perception, which in turn alters the temporal order of events. Miracles have no limitations. They are natural, healing occurrences, commonly seen everyday, and the birthright of all people. But it is a change in mindset.

So, for example, you may be in a situation that you believe is insurmountable, but if you change your perception or your thinking, you will be able to overcome. Some will call the outcomes that follow, a miracle. However, in its truest sense it was a change in your thinking or perception.

The examples in the bible are just symbolic of a change in perception. When Jesus says "Rise, take up your bed, and walk" Initially the man did not move because he did not believe he could. But as his perception changed he got up. It is more metaphor than literal.

There is an interesting dialogue occurring in one of the threads where someone who supported the May 21 is judgment day teaching is being asked to defend their position.  The answer in defense is below, and the bible is used to back it up.

My question is, are these true biblical teachings or misinterpretations?



The response to May 21 is judgment day

I have said that GOD's judgment took place on May 21, and the churches are and have been under GOD's righteous judgment (1 Peter 4:17), we see the evidence thereof.  I have said that The return of The Lord JESUS CHRIST is imminent and like in a court of law, sentence /execution will be carried out at that time, after judgment is read.  Think of it as being on "death row".

GOD's final judgment, HIS sentence passed on this world was passed on May 21, 2011 (like in a court of law),  the execution thereof (following shortly thereafter -like in a court of law), will be accomplished before the end of this year

----
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." -2 Pet 3:9-13

"Therefore the LORD, the God of hosts, the Lord, saith thus; Wailing shall be in all streets; and they shall say in all the highways, Alas! alas! and they shall call the husbandman to mourning, and such as are skilful of lamentation to wailing. And in all vineyards shall be wailing: for I will pass through thee, saith the LORD. Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him. Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?" - Amos 5:16-20

"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." - Rev 21:7-8

"wait for it, ".

@Hischild why would god write a book in the first place?  everyone cannot read, does not live in a safe place to read the bible, cannot interpret hebrew properly, does not have access to a bible, or even cannot afford one, what purpose does writing a book serve, why not place the bible in everyone's heart and mind since "god" is all powerful.  This leaves many at the whim of the interpretation of man.  Which leads people to read and interpret the bible to mean things like judgment day is May 21, 2011 and the end of the world is october 21, 2011 as you did. Why would god leave such important information to the interpretation of men, who clearly have their own agenda.  This bible is the reason for religious wars, family separation, various denominations, abuse of men and children, etc.  Because of man's interpretation.  Why would an infallible god create such a mess, if he is so loving and merciful.  You know why, because "god" had nothing to do with it.  men wrote it as a way to explain their world at that time, plain and simple.

Oh I see, so your purpose is not productive dialogue and understanding. Just mindless debate for entertainment and socializing purposes. I must have misunderstood. Thank you for the clarification.

@frosbel On many of the posts that you have shared today, people have come to you genuinely and asked about acceptance of our differences and tolerance. You never address this. It appears as though your intention here is maybe to argue/debate with muslims and/or atheists. Your response here about an intelligent mind is a subtle jab at atheists. But an intelligent mind and God do not have to be synonymous. Especially the God of the bible/ Jesus. This then would lead one to say, okay there may be an intelligent mind behind this baby's creation, but that intelligent mind is neither Jesus or the God of the bible. Do you know for sure that this is by intelligent mind? Or, is this just what you choose to believe? Your post asks Atheists to look at this, why? Because you are trying to say you are right and they wrong. So, the result is the responses you have received that you do not really address. I do not think anyone is irritated. Moreso, we are trying to have a fruitful dialogue with you.

I am not a doctor, so I would not be able to tell you step by step how it happened. But, it began with a sperm fertilizing an egg. If for you, this is so magnificent and awe inspiring that you choose to explain it by saying that it was ordained by the God of the bible. That is the best explanation that works for you. That is great! But, it does not mean it is true. But it works for you and that is fine.

But while showing this clip, you must also keep in mind all of the babies that were killed in the bible by the God of the bible, all of the women who cannot have children and pray to the God of the bible every day with no success, all of the babies who are born deformed, sick, or dead. You must also attribute these things to that God and post those videos also.

Again, if your explanation works for you that is fine. It does not make it true. But we can accept that this is your chosen path for your time here on earth, why are you unable to accept the path chosen by others?

All of the other spiritual paths that you have listed as irrational may be that to you, but that does not mean they are. The same way that you can look at them as irrational, is the same way they can look at you that way. Therefore, there is no point in such a debate. How unkind to call something that someone holds so dear to their heart irrational? Religions, all of them, if looked at through the lens of logic are irrational. However, it serves a purpose. For you the story of Jesus rings true in your heart. That is wonderful. But before you respond defensively, have compassion and empathy and understand that the stories of Buddha, Mohammed, Krishna, etc ring true in the hearts of others. So, instead of trying to tell these individuals that you are right and they are wrong, why not just exemplify the wonderful person and teacher that Jesus was, and leave the rest alone. Would this not be an example of the teaching of Jesus to love your fellow man? Similar to the teachings of Buddha and Muhammed. Whatever rings true for you.

All religion is in its purest form is a quest for one to try and achieve a higher state of being, a better state of existence or consciousness. We are all one/united. Whether people choose to believe it or not. Something that happens in nigeria can impact those living in other countries etc. We are a collective consciouness, a universal energy/mind, some choose to call it God. So, yes, a believer of the bible and Jesus Christ can marry a person who has chosen not to follow this spiritual path, if they are both truly operating in love and acceptance and allowing one another to freely express their own spirituality. Alot of spiritual growth and understanding can occur in these dynamics. Often times moreso than among two "believers." Many men and women are happy to marry a person who they consider a "believer" because it is easier to control such an individual with the dogma and beliefs of the Christian tradition. However, just because two people who claim to believe the same thing exist in the same household does not mean the end result is positive, look at the Christian divorce rate. The real determinant will be true authentic love, which allows each spouse to be free to explore who they are, and not strict dogma which confines and controls.

Why would we come here to complain about Nostradamus? Does that make any sense? Would complaining about Nostradamus make what other Christians are doing less wrong? If you are so upset about Nostradamus that is merited. But it is also important to point out the hypocrisy of some Christians who rejoice in these sufferings. This behavior clearly goes against the bible teachings, that you all support such much, of love thy neighbor. You are missing the point. The anticipation of the end times is causing people to lose compassion, empathy, and sympathy.

The reason it is being attributed to Christians is because of the focus on the end of days. That is the point. The hope for the end times, and end of days makes certain, not all, certain Christians rejoice in disaster and suffering because they believe these are signs of the end. There is no mention of those impacted by an earthquake, but instead scripture is read or posted stating that in the end times there will be earthquakes etc. If you have not witnessed it, that is great. But this is running very rampant today and is quite unfortunate.

[b]It seems that with every natural disaster certain Christians rejoice because they believe this is a sign Of Jesus's return. With the recent earthquakes, tsunamis, and hurricanes, there is more of a push towards the belief that we are living in the last days. However, all of these phenomena have been clearly explained by meteorologists. If one takes a second to read it, then there is no need to believe in other silly things that have nothing to do with the current weather pattern or reality. Furthermore, they have been happening for centuries and times have not ended.

What worries me is that instead of helping those who have been killed, injured, or displaced as a result of natural disasters, some Christians are ignoring them and hoping for more disaster which will help them in their end of days propoganda.

By all means there are Christians who help their fellow man, but this obsession with end days and earthquakes as well as other natural disasters seem to be taking an immoral toll. It is not good to wish these things to happen and be happy when they do.

How can this be considered Christian behavior? Is this taught in the bible, to rejoice in others suffering? [/b]

[b]A lot of Christianity and religious beliefs are based on self-delusion. Some people believe Jesus is talking directly to them, or that they are prophets, or that they are part of the "elect" etc. A religious person must engage in delusional thinking in order to believe things that are clearly not true. If someone has lived life in a very immoral way, how great must it be for this person to believe that all is forgiven as long as they say they believe a certain thing. It is nonsense, but psychologically it allows the person to continue to live without the guilt and shame of what they have done. Look at these priests who are going to jail for child molestation years after the act. They probably believed they had gotten away with it and all was forgiven. No, they had to pay at some point for their actions. We may never know how someone is reaping what they have sewn, but they are or will reap. I know many Christians whose lives are a mess. One bad thing after another is happening. But, they are able to live in self-delusion and say oh God is testing them or it is God's will. When more likely than not, they are reaping all that they have sown. This law of Karma reigns true. What you put out there will always come back. How one receives it is based on their mindset and level of delusion. [/b]

Interesting question! Marriage does not seem to be a natural state of being. People often enter into it with rose-colored glasses. I have seen marriage situations where it is like both partners are being held in a prison, afraid to leave because of the "wrath of God." What kind of way is this to live? There are some good healthy marriages, but this is not what is being discussed. People seem to be to quick to enter into marriage without fully understanding it.

When you marry a person, you marry their problems (financial, mental, family, health, etc), so people should think wisely, it should not be entered into lightly.

@maasoap Does your post imply that this trend is a bad thing?