₦airaland Forum

truthislight: Can you show me that ^ word in the bible and?

Are you sure it is not your word (human knowledge) that you wish to input into the bible?

Pls, if it is not in the bible, you can keep it, i am not interested.
Thanks.

Your idea of God is a learning God??

Mr anony: 1. Urhm no. The color green of grass needs a person to subjectively experience it however, the grass will still be green if the person wasn't experiencing it. The same applies to good and evil.

2. Why should we?


In which case we can never say that anything is actually better than anything else


A "horrifying unknown" doesn't make the unknown bad. Besides in this case we know that death is the end of consciousness. Kinda like an unending dreamless sleep.

If green is green without someone experiencing it, where does the need for subjective experience come from??

christemmbassey: pls explain futher with particular reference to how many animals u've sacrificed this year,# of ppl stoned etc etc and the place of Jesus in this ur jewish practices. God bless.

What's wrong with laws given by God??

Mr anony: Actually I didn't disregard it. As one of my presuppositions I held that good and bad are objective. I just didn't root it in God (against all good sense).


If good and bad are not objective, then this question makes no sense.


All well and good however on this thread, I don't subscribe to life after death so I can't see how death is a better or worse state than life.


You are sitting on the fence my man. Take a stance!

Your 2nd Premise states: value judgments can only be appreciated subjectively via 1st person. That only conflicts your presupposition that value judgement are objective.

Consequently your third premise can not stand. Since we should be able to say OBJECTiVELY if Death is good or bad.

My stand is: all value judgements are built on perceptions and these are differ.

The apprehension could be on the horrifying unknown

As to killing a man.

Killing caused a traumatic apprehension of death (torture more or less)

Good and Bad can barely be defined as beneficial and non-beneficial respectively. In those senses, it is illusorily objective, but such judgment must be made based on perception. Hence different societies and cultures with their unique perception arrive at diff ideas of good and bad.

So I will purposely disregard the basic assumption that good and bad are objective. Besides you disregarded it in your argument.

Is death Bad?

To some religions and cultures, it is good, because it is not an end to existence, rather a transformation. In cases of self sacrifice it is the pinnacle of good.

While in our present materialist world, death is the most dreaded entity and it should be avoided inspite of its inevitability. Some believe that because it is not a choice, its bad.

truthislight: "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." (Hebrews 7:12).

Boomark: Do you understand or hear your self. God said that the old covenant with it law will disappear when the new covenant arrives and and you said the old law remains?

Tell us how the law on stoning people to death and cruxification evolved.

You people don't see the issue with the permanence of God's Word, considering his omniscience, wisdom and goodness (honesty). The new reflects the old, if God breaks his Word at will, he will definitely break it in the future.

The law of stoning and Sabbath were promulgated by God in his immeasurable wisdom, hence they are good laws and don't require REFOrM (what's not borken shouldn't be fixed).

Boomark: 7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

I hope you now see that the old covenant with the laws guiding it is now obsolete. those keeping the law of moses have no say in christ new covenant. the law we now keep is the one in Christ which is in our hearts.

Am disappointed in OLA. If you don't know just listen and learn and stop misleading people. We are following Christ here not church doctrine.

Yet the new Covenant is made btw God and the people of Israel and Judah, and this time form of the laws change, the laws are constant but form evolves.

Gt

frosbel: The new covenant is in the Spirit while the old was in the LAW , 613 of them to be precise.

You cannot pick and choose, if indeed the Old covenant still applies then you and your tithe friends MUST keep the whole 613 LAWs. You cannot pick those that have money attached to them supposedly , while rejecting the rest.

First of all what do you mean by spirit??

Cos covenants are terms and conditions the parties must abide by, and this is law in effect. Also jesus commands his followers that the only true command is "love neighbour as you love yourself" this is a law. Failure to abide to it denys the disobedient person heaven.

frosbel: The Bible talks of a new covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

Luke 22:20
In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

We are no more operating under the old covenant , we are now under the blood of Jesus, away with this tithe malady.

the so called new Covenant is only a renewal of the old Covenant, still with the same parties. God was simply making the judah that wishes to follow him re-aware. Its like renewing vows of a marriage. It doesn't start a new one rather reminds the parties in it.

^^

The problem with the OP is, it takes the Word of God as temporary. God when making his Covenant with Abraham, never anticipated an end to it. And God's Word is his Word, it subsists permanently.

DNA tests for ancestry use the same principles to test for homo sapiens link to other apes. Man is scientifically classified as ape.

It is more or less a game of similarity.

^^

We humans don't fully understand the human psyche.

^^
What I can conclude is: Supernatural is a hasty conclusion. We should accept the mystery of our Universe and not paint over it.

Your experiences are unique, no one here shares the same with you. I would say, that's your unique outlook and interpretation of your existence.

2nedo: What gives any living thing meaning is life.And how can u explain d spirit attached to human so complex that u'll just be assuming crap and still believe in those craps

Meaning of life is defined by the existing being.

5cassava sticks: so what? grow a thick skin for your username and stop being a baby


oh i see. What exactly is your position then? Stop shifting goal posts and hiding behind obfuscation screens


Are you saying that matter has always existed forever in the past? if not, if matter began to exist, where did it pop out from and what created it?

I'm really tightening that noose around your neck now aren't I?

Hmmmm. . .

What goalpost have I shifted? ? ?

Just accept it, Nothing is unproductive and even God himself can't create from it. If God can do such then his existence is as impossible as creation ex nihilo!!

My beliefs are this: either God created everything else from himself or some primordial state existed in the past of which the universe is a potential of.

Also abstracts like numbers are uncaused.

sadeiyare: Just the same way Abraham know Him, remember Jesus said Abraham saw my day and was glad.

Pls bible verse. And how and in what manner did Abraham recognize Jesus Christ.

sadeiyare: Yes He is and He did not lie, Jesus represent the truth and living the truth is the only way to Heaven.

So how are our forefathers supposed to know Jesus Christ.

5cassava sticks: Hehehehehe....you slimy little bastard, you still haven't told me how the magic of your universe popping out of nothing managed to happen.

You are also a liar because theists do not say that god created out of nothing but out of his power in the same way that bill gates created Windows OS out of his intelligence.

Your religious fanaticism has eaten all the logical neurons in your brain

The 1st problem is I never insulted you nor treated you like a baby.

2nd is don't I seem to disagree the popping out of Nothing scheme?! I never said that was my position.

3rd God created out of his power, of course he used his power, but from what material was existing before?

sadeiyare: They will be judge by the laws that governed their communities at that time in-line with the good law of Christ. Remember Christ came to fulfill the law

It implies Jesus lied when he said he was the ONLY way to the Kingdom.

What about barbaric laws? Will ppl be judged against such laws?

kambo: apostle john,
authr of the book of revelations,
descibed gold on d street of heaven being as pure as glass.
Only recently, has man usg advanced science learnt how refine gold to such crystal purity.

How cud john know this ?
Wat wud logicians and alchemists
of his time or even 3 centuries ago hav made of such a report?
They'd say it's Impossible because 2 them they cudnt reason it out.
In essence atheism rest on the idea that "if i cant figure it and i cant explain it , or experience it(5 senses).
it isnt real".
It's a religion of d mind. Ur mind is ur God.
Thts y Atheists hav so many puffy minded , schoool trained academics, in their ranks.
It is also a religion of pride..
Pride at admittg tht uv met somethg u cant intellectually wrestle down - acts of God.
You want God 2 come xplain himself to u.. How he did it.
Sorry, u'll wait a long time. U dnt know enuff to judge.

You still haven't explained how God created from Nothing. Pls explain to us "proud" ppl.

And you forgot

God create from nothing = the Universe Energy Stars hairnets Angola/Nigeria humans dolphins etc.

This is uncontestably illogical and impossible. An eternal universe on the other hand stops making sense cos it is inconsistent with our observations. God creating from voids is a prior nonsensical.

And you forgot

God create from nothing = the Universe Energy Stars hairnets Angola/Nigeria humans dolphins etc.

^^

The part you said they can't think.

kambo: if man was less intelligent thn he now is, it doesnt mean he evolved.
A kid doesnt evolve new cerebra to acquire new knowledge. He is built with capacity already to adapt mentally .

If man came frm a common terrestrial animal an issue arises.
All other animals adapted physcally to their environment with little or no complex reasong improvements beyond d rudimentary.
The same terra firma hosted different kinds of animals. M.orons. Animals . We all know animals cant think. Since animals cant thnk, they core need of an animal is sustenance, food.
Primal procreation urge.s , i wont even classify wat they do as s.ex -thts for man,
survival urges - self preservation. Few animals will standby and watch u kill them.
Food,procreation,self preservation.
These needs faced all animals ,and all satisfied d needs ,primitively (assumg evolutions stance) .. And over the years this needs ar still d same burdens d next animal will face.
Thru selectve matg they cud b som body changes,slight. E.g negroid matg with caucasian will birth slightly diffrent offsprings.
Yet wen this needs , basic animal needs confronted a partcular animal class, it reacted differently. Grew a brain, learnt how to farm, built towns and invented money...,
all frm reactg to d same basic animal needs. and u guys say u dnt believe in mirtacles. And of all the animals that faced the same undiscriminatg needs only this one reacted so differently and Advancedly.
Sorry, too hard to swallow too chancey.
Man was purpose built.
Thats wat d bible says.

You can't claim animals lack consciousness, cos Consciousness is an intrinsic fact known only by the being itself.

4cassava sticks: Hehehehe...let me see. So you are saying that atheists believe that the universe did not come from nothing which means it has a creator?

...but wait they don't accept that God(creator of the universe) is the creator of the universe. You people are even more stu[color=#000000]pi[/color]d than I thought.

What next will you tell me? that you reject democracy but you accept government of the people by the people for the people?

Go and find your brain where you misplaced it abeg.

Noo!! It doesn't necessarily mean the universe was created by God! Some atheists take the Universe to be eternal, some claim a multiverse, some claim some primordial state etc.

striktlymi: Hallo Kay,

Sorry that I am just attending to this...my health has been a major challenge...

The question really would be how did the Patriarchs make heaven without knowing Christ? Jesus informed us that we need two things to make heaven...Baptism and good works...the patriarchs only had good works while on Earth.

Before anyone can make heaven the knowledge of Christ is needed but not necessarily here on Earth...this knowledge of Christ can be remedied after the life here on Earth but everyone who makes heaven MUST be good in line with right conscience.

But the good works of man, is like rags before God. Man is incapable of true righteousness.

Sorry about your health, wish you speedy recovery.

^^^ hence we can dispense with the necessity of God.

Jesus said he was the ONLY way to the kingdom, definitely our forefathers can not reach whether or not they are good.

kambo: absolutely non contradctory.
First, science believes the world came out of nothg. Nothg created somethg- the root and foundation of evolution.
Randomness generated complex systems (absolutely impossible)
there was nonLife which created Life. (a physical stance tht is unreplicatable. Billions of Experiments to confirm this fact HAVE FAILED. LIFE CANNOT COME FROM NON LIFE).

The creator angle isnt a physcl take. It is a Spirit being with beyond humanly comprehendable properties. He instigated d process.
Designed and built the world.
Infinitely more plausble.
Randomness doesnt possess bias or singularity , hence a random process wud have created more worlds all with inhabited equally distinct beings. But tht isnt d case.
God made man. And God gave man his religious instincts which is y men in all cultures and races seek their Maker. But there is a devil who'll lead man d wrong way or feed man lies. Or try to convince man He doesnt need God but cant quench the God seekg urge in man.

Science does not say so. Science does not say the Universe appeared from nothing. And it is contradictory cos Nothing is the absence of a cause, function, object and anything; hence to claim the an absent cause triggers an effect is contradictory. Either its there or its not there.

So your God designer scheme is built on nothing!

A platform/environment (an existential primary) is necessary upon design can take place. As I always say, a designer merely alters/manipulates his environment to his desires/wishes/needs.

A designer does not stand alone, he necessarily requires an enivronment with rules he understands/appreciates, and thereafter manipulates.

We humans do design our machines and fashion tools that work in line with the present physical laws. A knife is pointed for the obvious reason of resistance. Our cars move faster by abiding to the laws of motions. We adjust our space gadgets to the demands and specs of outer space.

My point is God as a designer is not the root cause of our cosmological trauma, rather questions should be focussed on the existent primary platform. "Why is there Something rather Nothing"

Also, humans dangerously project themselves as an anthropomorphic God, with equal desires and wants and motives.

^^

But is the awareness of Jesus written in the heart of all men?