₦airaland Forum

^^ ok I edit it as "people of faith . . ."

I think people of Faith have rejected and forsaken an objective truth that God exists, in order to opt for faith (a subjective reality) through which God lives.

Deep Sight: At the most basic level of the idea advanced in the OP, such permanent matter would still be God.

However i take a different shift of things: because for me, it is obvious that matter cannot be permanent in the past: two things make this obvious: (1) The fact that matter is mutable means it cannot self exist, and (2) the reality of the Big B@ng.

For my first post, I was referring to Aristole's saying that we should treat equals as equals and unequal as unequals. That it is the struggle and feat by individuals that endows em as Gods. Moreover the creation of the universe is just another feat.

As to the matter over materialists, relegating God to an unidentifiable primordial substance. Platonists and Pantheists all acknowledge the permanence of existence and it is identified as the purest form of existence. Deepsight you have to go further, beyond uncertainty.

striktlymi: Evening Kay,



Well Kay, a claim need not be proven to be true for it to require faith to uphold. In the context we are using it, faith is simply put: "a firm belief in something for which there is no proof".

Hence, when an individual says that there is no God but fails to show this objectively by way of proof then the individual necessarily uphold a belief for which there is no proof and as such that individual can have faith attributed to his claim.

Ordinarily an unproven statement is not necessarily backed by faith. Faith is a special foundation basis. It is not applied anyhow.

Now this is thinking critically...but you forget that the principle of causality is a name humans gave to an observed phenomena...you can say this principle is an idea that was developed over time as a consequence of the relationship that exists between two or more variables.

Thus, we really can't say the principle of causality was pre-existent because it started when this process was put in motion. From Newton's first law of motion, we can see that a body will continue to be in a state of rest until it is acted upon by some external force.

You knw God is just a name too. Newton's law still accounts for Causality, so to conceive a cause for causality is a paradox.

Deep Sight: Because something cannot emerge from nothing, as we have said a zillion times. As such, since things exist, then there logically exists something permanent, from which things exist. That is simple logic and makes perfect sense. That permanent something is what people call God in different languages, period.

Many materialists believe causal relationships merely shift forms of a permanent entity: Matter. It wld be illogical to conclude that these fellows believe in God.

Deep Sight: Because something cannot emerge from nothing, as we have said a zillion times. As such, since things exist, then there logically exists something permanent, from which things exist. That is simple logic and makes perfect sense. That permanent something is what people call God in different languages, period.

This is untrue. Most cultures don't accept the view that a God is an uncaused being, rather he is an unequal being. And humans who are able to perform incredible feats are deemed divine.

Zoroasterianism despite being monotheist, accepts duality.

striktlymi: Cool!!!



I guess you did not see the point in my dance earlier? It was actually meant to point out to you that you do exactly the same thing that you accuse the religious of doing...I hold a belief that there is God...you hold the belief that there is no God...my belief that there is God is based on faith because there is no objective proof...your belief that there is no God is based on faith cause it also does not have an objective proof...

Anyways, let me oblige you a bit and stop my dance for the now...

You asked for a definition of God...here it is:

God is the first cause who jump-started the 'process' without himself being caused.

All that we are experiencing today has some start-off point...I really do not mind if you guys choose to say that some force set the ball rolling...

The bottom line is that something or someone started all this and that something or someone is who I call the first cause or simply put: God!!! If you want evidence then, you are the evidence you seek...unless you want to say that you do not exist then my evidence can be put in the thrash bin.




The above is still your opinion man and you have a right to it.

First of all, because a statement or a claim lacks the requisite proof of truthfulness, does not mean its by faith, rather it is doubtful. Faith is a test by subjective standards.

You defined God as the Cause that triggers the remainder cause and effect relationships (that's what I understood). My question to you is this: the causal principle (the necessity for an event to lead to another) is caused by God too? If causality was not preexisting, then God wouldn't have caused anything including causality itself.

Proffdada: Because he is lost and needs help
Cuz all other atheists don't feel this bitter about God

But he chose not to have Faith while you did. He can't be lost. Probably he hates Christianity, it doesn't mean he is lost.

So if Faith separates you from Oman, why say he is stupid? Or irrational?

Proffdada: Exactly he's still an infant,that's why we need to wean him with the TRUTH. God is love and wants d death of no sinner,that's why He sent His Son not for d righteous but d lost n damned dat believes in Him. Sadly it seems ooman is trying to cauterize his homo infection by hiding behind atheism. He needs divine excorsism

Just accept it that all these above can not be appreciated by outsiders to your religion. They will criticize because they expect the general standard for truths. And you fail to tell em about Faith.

^^
Yet noone has really talked about how Faith has shaped their religion. That they are unable to prove empirical arguments or rational to support an incomprehensible God. So Faith is the only rational ground for Christians, yet they heckle atheists like it was irrational not to believe in God.

EUROBOMBER:
Yes, my God is in the business of roasting FOOLS like u that refuse to acknowledge His supremacy. U believe in satan but not God. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Well, that's cools; there's enough room in hell for u and satan ur father. U have from now till u die to acknowledge the God who created u or like I said earlier, better start practicing how u will live in hell fire. U can place ur pressing iron on ur chest, put ur hand in ur oven or go to people that kill and roast goats and jump into their fire for like 30 secs. That way when u get to hell it may not be that strange to u. And let me add that it is immaterial to God whether u believe He exists or not; He's having a lot of fun as God whether u believe in Him or not.

U know what, I will not plead with u to change ur mind about God like some others are trying to do here, PLEASE CONTINUE IN UR ATHEISM! I DROP THE BOMBS!!!

It is all true, IF taken by Faith. This whole post is on shaky foundation of Faith.

Funny enough, fire is physical and its heat property is physical.

frosbel: ^^

perfectly stated !

Love is the epitome of what GOD is all about, that's why many religious people become abusive and condescending , when you counter their doctrines, they need more LOVE , as we all DO.

God is LOVE.

What is Love?

nagoma: What's the difference? Okay , okay ,okay Christians have three Gods while atheists have none. Very different

Actually Both Christians and Atheists have the same position. Christians by adopting Faith, deny objective truths in order to accept a subjective reality that God exists. Whereas atheists also take as an objective truth the nonexistence of God.

[quote author=m.k.o2005]Oooman good morning ! We slept two nights already but you are still here trying to prove that God does not exist !
May the Almighty God whom you disbelief in make you believe even if it's in the hard way so ur soul does not burn in hell. I love you and care about ur soul.
May God help u oooman and help me also !
God bless us including all the atheists !
God help me[/quote]The unfortunate thing is that; you have not been able to substantiate your "God exists" claims, it is riddled with errors and hasty assumptions. Such as assumin for no just cause dreams give humans new knowledge. It is ridiculous.

Whether there is hell or not is tied down to your "God exists" claims, as long it is unconvincing so also your hell is real is also unconvincing.

striktlymi: Lol!!! Don't worry man! Saw that you were overwhelmed with so many posts and decided to help...Just review your Boolean algebra before saying the equation does not make sense.

Ot doesn't make sense, trying to add up Trinity

I had always carried the idea tha Boolean logic cannot be used to add up justify integers, apparently someone manages to add up (Father, Jesus, Holy Spirit) into a unity?!

meetdonald: Correction: Died And Resurrected. Now At God's Right Hand^^

I thought Jesus was God himself?!

^^ simply ask em if they accept microevolution and half of your headaches go.

Tracetruth: though you have said we lack evolutionary scientist, however I think you should be able to explain this. This event happened in abakpa in ogoja of crs,nig. A man called jerry died in 2000 then his wife became pregnant in 2003 when asked how she said it was her man who did it since no one would believe such claim it was agreed by the reltives findout how it happened the wife ask them to open the tomb when it was open behold the man was alive

Lmaaooooo!! So believing this is what it takes to be a Christian?

laylow001: What is the best proof of God existence?Once this question was asked to a scholar by an Atheist. The scholar replied that he would reply it in public rather than to an individual on a particular day. The scholar lived in other village other side of a river. The Atheist and people gathered at one place and waited for the scholar.People waited for many hours, the Atheist started joking and laughing at the scholar and spread rumors that scholar cannot prove God's existence, he does not have courage to face the public, so he has escaped . At last the scholar arrived. People were eager to know the reason of coming late. The Scholar said, ' Friends! I am Sorry I could not come on time,when I reached the river i did not find any boat to cross the river. You all know that this river is large and cannot be crossed without boat,so I kept on waiting. Suddenly I saw a big tree fell, all branches cut by themselves and its stem transformed into wooden planks by itself. The Atheist shouted ," Stop! Stop! Don't fool others. In fact you don't have answer for my question". The scholar said, "Dear brothers! let me finish my story". People supported him. The scholar continued, "In front of my eyes these wooden planks arranged themselves and within few minutes they transformed into a small boat. It started moving towards water. I ran and jumped into it as i saw it's direction was towards this village.It sailed towards this village without a rower and a sailor. As it reached the bank I got down and thus I am in front of you to answer this man's question. Before any could talk the atheist shouted, you are a liar. How can this happen that a tree transform into boat by itself. It is impossible. How could this happen without wood cutters and a team of boat makers. How can a boat sail without a sailor. You are a lair." . The scholar kept silent. The atheist said, "Answer my question first" . The Scholar said, "Dear! you have answered my question yourself". Then he said, " brothers! this man says that a tree cannot be shaped by itself into wooden sheets and planks. wooden sheets and planks cannot be transformed into a simple boat by itself and a boat cannot take you to a particular destination by itself. Then how can he says that this world has come into existence without any maker. How he thinks that this universe,sky, sun, moon, planets came into existence without any creator.
can he explain how this earth and we came into existence?

God exists. Each and every creature in this universe is witness to existence of God.
The vast universe with skies, galaxies, innumerable solar systems, stars , planets, moons, shining of sun, twinkling of stars, the earth, the mountains., the glaciers, the oceans, the trees, the leaves,m fruits and flowers, germination of seeds, plants and grass and above all the human beings. all are witness to existence of God for those who have wisdom.

You are obviously new to the religion section. The problem with design argument is that it presupposes Nature pre existing and God working under Nature to his intents. Unlike Christians who say God is omnipotent and can bend water to act as fire. And use miracles as signs of God's omnipotence. Hence God does not require design.

[quote author=m.k.o2005]I want to believe you know what dream is !
There are 3 sources of dreams.
1.Self
2.devil
3.God
You can give ur self a dream at night especially from the multitudes of the days activities.
The devil can also give you a dream anytime of the day. The devil's dream to you MUST contradict the word of God. If you are not conversant with the word,it will be difficult for you to tell if the dream is from the devil !
God speaks to HIS own in the dream and also warns HIS children of an impending danger.There are revelations in dreams. An issue can be solved in the dream as given to man by God.
k 17,the above write up might not necessarily be for you but who knows,one or two others out here can learn something from the explanation of dreams and how God speaks to us through it.
So which other one do you want cos i do not have all the time for these....
May God help u[/quote]Good to ask Qs. When ppl have dreams, some take it as the brain in hyperdrive, some believe the subconscious is taking over, some believe the body is resting; while you assume its a spirit world! How fantastic. But there are scientific authorities (neuroscience) find natural causes for dreams. Isn't it outdated to believe spirits cause dreams?!

[quote author=m.k.o2005]Knowledge isn't bad but seek the right knowledge ! What is the right knowledge ? Knowledge sought in line with the scriptures ! It's a free world where account is only taken after death !
God help us[/quote]What does right knowledge mean? Can knowledge be wrong?? Knowledge is either good or bad. I believe its good

[quote author=m.k.o2005]To have faith in God means to have a perfect clear vision ! Not to have faith in God means to be blind !
See below the meaning of faith :
''Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen''.
I already claim things before i see them physically.Not the other way round becos it is a spiritual matter !
God help us[/quote]HMmm. You agreed with me that Faith is blind and now you are saying its seeing clearly! Now its a spiritual matter. I personally believe Faith is non communicative, so you will always be rounded up in confusion explaining it.

Moralistli: Only a fool will dispute/argue GOD's existence.....

Believing is seeing! Just believe, and don't dare reason how he operates....If you try that, then the devil will keep celebrating because you are probably off the right track...

Anyways, each to his own,,,,, I am glad that i am not caught in between.... I am quite convinced that my redeemer liveth. No circumstance can wave me. I have decided to follow Jesus, no going back till the end of time....

I am as steadfast as my maker. Thank you ALMIGHTY GOD, n may you have mercy on these so called atheists that are obviously driven n captured by agents of darkness.

Thank you Lord!

But God loves wisdom, Jesus was a wise man. We are to desist from foolishness. The opposite of wisdom is foolishness. To reason is to be wise. I don't think you know Jesus or you are a disciple of the wisdom loving God.

[quote author=m.k.o2005]Carnally minded people will find it difficult to understand spiritual matters. Where do one start to explain to you now ?
How can i tell you about vision,dream,inaudible spoken word of God,the voice of God inspiration as it's given by God,Rhema as in revelational knowledge ?It will be too much for you to comprehend unless you open ur mind to accept these things.
May God help u[/quote]Please start with Dreams!

sunkoye: yes, bt pple are tired being a freethinker or atheist. very barren....isnt it? now they are getting themselves into something more dangerous? Higher consciousness. men wants to be God! i remembered the issues with the sons of God during pre flood time and the tower of babel in post flood days! yes come yes come as the days of noah! times of hybrid. days of God's wrath! when we have half men half god. men shall be vast in knowledge, super humans we shall be. we shall challenge the Most High, and the Lamb. only few Christians will survive as the scripture foretold even when they days were cut for the sake of the chosen. as people fainting with fear and with foreboding of what is coming on the world. For the powers of the heavens will be shaken as the Lion of the tribe of judah appear with His Glory! then every every will understand that they have crossed boundaries when humans left their first estate to seek glorified bodies or consciousness. it has began!!!!!

In other words Knowledge is bad?

onitshaigbo: Learn your history, your ignorance is embarrassing.

Jesus was a blackman. The Jews of the Bible were blacks. Jesus lived in the land of Canaan, which is Northeast Africa! The earliest Christians were black (Kingdom of Axum in Ethiopia, Copts in Egypt, etc.)

It is common sense to be in awe at creation, whether human abilities or natural phenomenon. Only a fool would posit that all of this came from an exploding dot, and not the meticulous and perfect planning of a supremely intelligent God.

SEE! this monty python history! Thankfully Jesus supposedly lived 2000yrs ago. So we know how and what he would have looked like. This is sad.

Emusan: You've answered yourself correctly.

If Faith is blindness and the belief in God is solely based on Faith, then the conclusion is, there is no merit in believing in God, just as there is none searching for colours with closed eyes!

[quote author=m.k.o2005]My quote says 'the spirit guides you to do or not to do ' I never said it guides you to do right and not to do wrong like you quoted above. No one is spiritless whether you do right or wrong !
If you want us to further on this very one,i can by the Grace of God help u see how ur spirit can be born again by accepting Christ and not have ur spirit to be possessed by the devil thereby aiding you to insult God,HIS people and others around you !
God help us[/quote]So spirits make us do and not do, in the sensw of discretion OR physical mobility (what scientists think the muscles do)

misterseed: All hail the atheist. Do find the God that created you as you are or did you evolve from a lizard. Even the lizard was created. Who did it. If it not the almighty, i wonder who did. I wish all you atheist happy years. At the end, we shall know if there is God or not. I choose to believe still. I have tried the other side before.

Whatever God we believe must be sure and true. The Gods of our ancestors and of other countries challenge our belief in God, that we want to go beyond mere faith to an absolute certainty.

The fact that you are not sure, is a case for the atheist. You are waiting. . . Waiting . . For the end?!

onitshaigbo: If they do know, how would that help the people 2000 years ago understand about God? You have no sense.

The Bible says that we are spiritual beings, so why concern ourselves with the triviality of physical science? Spiritual knowledge is unequivocally more important!

Is the Bible the only source of spiritual knowledge? How did the writers of the Bible gain such knowledge? Did God tell em? How did God tell em? Through dreams?