₦airaland Forum

It is fair to say abrahamic faith adherents are solipsists. Their mind is the arena and venue for their god's existence

I said in other words that Faith is to preserve one's belief in God

^^
Faith follows and backs the Christian's dogma that his God and incidents of his worship MUST exist. There is nothing reason or physical evidence that is worth considering with a potential to destroy such dogma.

Image123: ^not if you also use faith, or at least some honesty and unbias

For faith to be exercised, rationality must be counted out. What can possibly be talked about in irrational mode?!

Image123: @thehomer
i am not basing my answers on reason, you should know that by now, except like i suspect you have short memory or demons have been messing with your comprehension. my answers are based on premises greater than reason, the premise of faith in God.

i guess God also takes the blame for every atomic bomb set off and every nuclear warhead since He made the atom, but He should take no credits whatsover when stuff is put to good use.

on compassion, God will not continue to be compassionate to every individual's dream and hope. if He did, nobody will ever die, or go home to Heaven or to hell.

NOT FOR THE SECOND TIME, WHAT IS YOUR IDEA OF PLEASURABLE DEATH?

if you are not relying on Reason, then why do you bother finding a rational justification/harmonisation of God's good nature and a corrupt evil world.

Faith puts an end to discussions.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Not a void but a non-physical (or spiritual) realm.[/quote]with absolute time involved or no time or unknown substance working similarly to time?

[quote author=V_Official®]This argument ultimately is unsatisfactory as it confuses the idea with the reality, act with potency.
St. Thomas Aquinas next set forth the five proofs of the existence of God. These proofs are fairly well known:
Motion
Causation
Contingency
Degrees of Perfection
Design

Christian metaphysics, however, esteems vertical causality as the best natural proof of God's existence. Unlike the horizontal series presented in the five ways that stretch back historically until time and space become redundant, vertical causality is proved in the
present moment. That is, the fact of existence, of now, is proof of "God". This is declared since no object is the source of its own present existence, nor is any object responsible for its maintenance in time and space. Metaphysically, every moment is different, no object is the same as it was an instant before. This is because existence in time is particular to every specific moment. The way you were .01 seconds ago is not the way you exist now, for to exist now is a different thing then any other point of your existence. Since existence is not proper to any object, it must be a participation. Existence itself, that thing whose purpose is to exist, allows other things to partake of Existence here and now, in any given moment. The five proofs help define the nature of this Existence (intelligence, etc.) however, the fact that anything exists now is only because of a participation in Existence itself.[/quote]you didn't exempt your god, as you used general terms to cover all existence

[quote author=Mr_Anony]@Kay 17, I still await your answer. How can anything be physical and yet immaterial?[/quote]I think I clearly explained myself in that post

Deep Sight: Not at all, you should be the one to show me just how normal it is for universes to be contained in dots, and exactly why such dots dont spill before or after the time at which they spill, but specifically at that time.

Rather, everything about such an occurrence evinces an ACT.

no we don't have other experiences of other universes not spilling or spilling out of dots. So there is no "normal/regular course". Since this did, we shouldn't see as a supernatural event. Also, its not obvious such an event is clearly that of a creation.

Deep Sight: Could be, would you care to show how, and what triggers such?

No the burden is on you to specifically provide why there is a creation. I'm to show other possibilities. Of which a dot spilling out its content could well be mechanical.

Deep Sight: Exactly, which is why self-existent things are self existent.

to concede to an absolute time frame is fatal.

We should note that causality might be exclusive to the universe, as time is said to flow along with the universe into existence.

Thus outside such a framework, causality might not be possible.

Deep Sight: O that's simple. How do you pack a universe into a dot? And yet that's what we see as the implication of the big ba[i]n[/i]g. That takes some doing.

no how is a universe spilled out of a dot? There isn't any extraordinary effort necessary to effect that. It could purely be mechanical.

Deep Sight: The energy resulting from that which is "the compound of infinite self existent laws" - which is called God.

In very simple words, God nevertheless a mechanism. But it would be one in a void. That would make no sense. Also, he is must be qualitative to a body/substance/personality, as a descriptive law.

Deep Sight: Why would you suggested it to be uncreated?

There are lots of possibilities. To suggest the existence of a creator god, you will need to explain first why the universe is not just caused but designed.

Its possible with a universal culture

Uyi Iredia: No. The cause always existed. Besides YOU are unwilling to apply this paradoxical impossibility to Nature.

Within what framework was that possible? In a void?

Enigma: From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14944470

Fanaticism and evangelism don't make up a religion, it would be ridiculous to suggest so.

At the end of the day, mr anony creates an artifical delineation btw physical and not physical and not material; both phrases don't positively define anything.

Also, why do you suggest the universe is created?

Logic Mind: Are the studios paying you to promote their movie?

Hollywood brainwashing is for the feeble minded. A friend of mine after seeing "The Book of Eli" told me that his faith has been renewed and he now understands what he didn't understand before.

There a many fictions and possibility conjectures about our origins. What I always say is that I don't know but I know bullshyte when I see bullshyte and the bible is full of it.

The Book of Eli is one of my fav movies. Lovely and thoughtful yet action packed.

[quote author=Mr_Anony]Funny enough if I defined God in exactly the same way as you have defined information, you would immediately write God off as inexistent.
How exactly do you define physical? How is something physical and yet immaterial?[/quote]Nope.

AlvinPlantinga: I See you do not know what entails being a God.For a Being to be called God it must exhibit Maximal Greatness.A God who is Good is greater than a God who is evil,a God who is all powerful is greater than a weak God, a God who is all knowing is greater than a a God who knows only some things.Therefore, any being for it to be called God, or the greatest conceivable being , must by definition be Good.

Its not obvious a good god is greater than an evil. A free willed being unrestrained by morals and standards of good could be said to be greater. The greatest conceivable being could be a fantasy and an image which exists only in the mind.

Infact, Christians believe that God is Good by definition, that is why he's defined as Omnibenevolent.How we know this God is indeed true apart from simply the definition?I would Give the Moral Argument and various other arguments as i have stated in my previous post.I wil not dwell into these arguments since they are not what we are discussing here.

TheHomer stresses on the adequate possibilities that god COULD be amoral, or evil or indifferent. Consequently explain evil in this world, besides claiming god is good and as well as admitting ignorance to his moral nature does not go down well.

I will repeat what i said, i believe that there is an Epistemic Distance between us and God which guarantees Free Will.This could involve a Full knowledge of God and a very Personal relationship with him.The Fallen Angels could have been created with this same epistemic distance.You allude to them being together with God in heaven, but i pointed out this epistemic distance is not a physical distance, in that, since the angels were physically in heaven with god,then they did not have this epistemic distance.the fact that they did not see the futility of launching a successful coup-de-etat against an all-powerful being lends credence to this.

Can a being with free will be self caused?

Can a free willed being determine his fate/action contrary to what an omniscient being sees?

IMO, information is physical but immaterial. Its not physcial in the sense that its composed of matter and energy but in that its readily interpretable and held by the mind and that its qualitative of objects.

The pursuit of a negatively defined God will lead no way!

Force used was too excessive. But every father will concerned about his child clubbing at 1 am!

[quote author=Only-Rebel]^^^ Anyone who seeks an answer to the question of how living things,including himself, came into existence, will encounter two distinct explanations. The first is the fact that all living things were created by the All-Wise and Almighty God. The second explanation is the theory of "evolution," which claims that living things are the products of coincidental causes and natural processes.[/quote]Justify your presumption, that all life comes into existence, especially when the almighty is life.

Why do we have to accept that the Universe was created? Upon that answer, a Creator becomes necessary.

For all the years I have been on Nairaland, I ve never being banned. I found a topic in the general religion section and mentioned unfavourable controversial history of their prophet. The next moment I was banned for not following "rules" as "respect" for the prophet.

But in recounting historical discussions and events, respect is for honest views. Not in mentioning weaknesses and flaws of historical actors.

If Islam can't take criticism, then it shouldn't go public.

ypzilanti: See the silence on the question showing that majority go to church without understanding the philisophy behind their religion.

Man has freewill and that is what the earth operates on. God intervenes through our prayers but he has the view of the whole picture which man does not have. Thus he will not intervene always except for the fulfilment of his grand purpose. Death is not viewed in Christianity as the end, but the beginning of another chapter.

That in a nutshell is the summarry. You either believe, or you don't. Christians were not promised heaven on earth despite the empty promises that the new age pastors are marketing. It is a religion more aimed for the hearafter, than the present. Jesus preaching mainly covered what we should do so as to prepare for life after here. New age pastors have made it about buying the latest jeep and being a superhuman that cannot experience difficulties or tragedy forgetting that the Lord himself was subject to the problems of mankind- was betrayed and crucified...in the end it was for the glory of God.

In other words, Christianity is a religion of death, that dwells on death?!

Many tragedies do happen such as this, that even flawed man feels empathy. If god has a grand plan, why is it imperfect? Why isn't the prayers of the victims answered? What happened to the free will of the victims??

Kobojunkie: Do you have proof of this claim the reason for this accident is corruption in the system? If yes, present it and spare us millions of dollars in so-called investigations to follow a la FG.

Dana has the chance to sue here. No real investigation has been conducted, so it makes no sense to suspend the airline's license. The Company can definitely win this if it does go ahead with it, and I hope it does.

Thank U KJ, the suspension of licence is a rash and unjustified decision. Its an extension of the blame game, politicisation of crash, bad postmortem management, jungle justice based on reports from rumor radio. An investigation is of paramount relevance, without that, nothing can be said.

I feel bad for the victims tho, but an investigation helps all. We will thereafter know the actual causes, the ppl responsible and then accord the blame to whoever deserves it.

By the way, the govt legally, can withdraw a licence as its a priviledge. But still a bad picture to investors out there.

Because you each know that every theist is speaking about a Creator.

And in pure logic, questions such as who created the creator is the creator good or evil, is the creator physical/nonphysical - are in reality tangential to the discussion. The pure question is if there is a creator of this universe. If there is, then the question is answered, whether it be created by something else, and whether it be good or evil, and whether it be physical or non-physical

The influence of morality on the god, might not be important, but being a caused creator diminishes his role as the explanation for the existence of everything. Cos behind most/common theist position lies an underlying assumption that nothing existed prior to something.

Therefore having the creator/god far off the end of the chain is no god.

Idehn is quite right, but given the number of times you in particular have tried to describe and define your god to me. I can't ask u everytime to redefine god at every thread.

Deep Sight: Lol, when will you tire of saying this. This remains your constant refrain whenever God is discussed. You keep repeating that there is no definition and as such, no discussion can hold. Magnifient escapism if you ask me. Enjoy it if it makes you feel dandy.

No serious discussant can claim that there exists no general idea of what the word "God" refers to in Theological Discourses

I guess this will be the next word you will assist us to delete from human language, seeing as it has no definition - not even in dictionaries!

in a theist+atheist discussion, it can't be taken for granted. An atheist working on his assumptions on a deist god or Christian god wouldn't help the discussion.

But the most common function of god always in the role of a creator.

handsomeness: Well, those who pay 10% (tithe) still receive their blessing. Don't let the devil give you excuse upon excuse for not paying Tithe.

So your omnipotent god punishes or ignores those followers that don't give him money?

BUT mr anony started with a premise that everything has a cause! As a result his first cause/sequence theory fails! For not complying with his premise.

But Faith plays a bigger role in all martyrs