₦airaland Forum

davidylan: you're quite daft.
Gravity is NOT faith and i made it quite clear... when you have empirical evidence to back up your scientific theory then you are definitely NOT dealing with faith.

However, what is the empirical evidence for the claim that evolution ALONE is responsible for the origin of life and the incredible level of diversity of organisms today? That is an example of the illogical faith-based reasoning atheists indulge in while bleating about christians hanging their hats on faith.

Its so clear that david lacks the basic understanding of science!! Scientific theories are first, explanations which momentarily supported by prevailing evidence in the absence of falsifiable evidence strong enough to make the explanation untenable or absurd.

Einstein and Newton's theories are classical examples of this definition. Whereas David's definition is rather too simplistic!

And lv4fb is not making any sense!! The question was whether Faith is integral to Science NOT whether a white man developed an idea. STICK to your points lv4fb!!

We are still on the sun's movement, and whether biblical "science" is in line with modern science

iv4fb: @avicenna, well I assume I knw much of evolution having done psychology but hey the greatest advancement in sciences is yet to explain the functionality of the eye - they're all hypotheses. Mind you, I'm not a 'religionists', I don't believe in religion but I believe in God and I fear him. U fear none and you're anti-religious. Its fine if you want to keep fighting religion, go ahead but u can't fight God!

Evolution explains the eye phenomenon well and validly within the scientific system.

Wow! I ve bEen unbanned.

@OP

Why does Islam shuffle women into stereotypical gender boxes and let society define her goals and happiness??

Why doesnt Islam believe a woman can work like a man, in the civil service, academia, government, commerce, sports etc?

Why aren't there women prophets?

Why can't islam be the fairest towards women?

iv4fb: Lolz! Now this is becoming funny.

@Avicenna, u don't need attack people instead, face ideologies. and about thanking ur parents, u just raise another issue that ur parents 'created' u, that's a new one! Honestly, you're yet to bring out ur points apart from the insults.

Gratitude to God by religious peeps is believed to be a form of merit and control over Nature, destiny and luck. They believe that expressing gratitude to God over an escape from a car crash or natural disaster, puts them in a more favourable position next time.

Also gratitude is not a good argument for the existence of God.

davidylan: You're a dishonest cretin. Obviously the issue is NOT "faith" in the ability of the sun to rise tomorrow... for that we already have tons of empirical evidence.
However "faith" in the sudden appearance of life out of random chaos with no justifiable evidence for this is illogical faith on your part. It is no different from "faith" in Jonah living in the belly of a fish for 3 days.

Apart from believing God is life who eternal, its natural to believe if life was to originate, it would from non living matter.

And if you expect life to be eternal, then it wouldn't make sense discussing the its origin.

davidylan: That is a flat out LIE. Faith does not have to be tied to one of the defined religions.
the unproven belief that you just appeared out of random chaos is itself FAITH in science.

As a scientist David, what is Faith in science like?

I'm shocked a Prof wrote that!

I don't have since I'm an atheist

iv4fb: @kay_17, sure. U r on point. My words were carefully selected in regards atheists and faith, go thru that post again please.

So you don't have faith? And u are faithless? Just asking!

What do you think, I ve been saying?!

iv4fb: @kay_17, I understand your point perfectly, again your concept of faith is a spiritual apprehension without resorting to physical proofs like the atheist want- that's correct. Religion is a belief in a supreme being, whether God, budha, anything (on a lighter note, even the atheist have faith, they believe in 'no god' or so they claim-isnt that faith?) It may be difficult to separate God from religion from ur own views but God isn't religion. Let's not go further into theology, the Lord is God. I see you believe in God, so ask him further questions, HE alone can open your understanding.

No, FAITH is a special article of religion. Same can't be applied to agnostics, atheists or even deists.

Faith is that "unexplained" divine conviction.

Aka God of Gaps.

handsomeness: First of all, supernatural prosperity doesn't and can NEVER answer to Prayer and Fasting,it answers to 'Covenant demand'..
prosperity is a Covenant:
a Covenant is a business deal enacted by God and man,a Promise that God has made with man., Gen 8:22, Deut 8:16-18.,

so it only answers to Covenant; not Prayers.. Prosperity is a spirit same as poverty,
and until you follow Divine principles of Supernatural Prosperity, Poverty will always be your Next door Neighbour.,
you'd never get Supernatural Prosperity if you don't follow these principles below..don't think your wealth will last! As far as it wasn't gotten from the principles below- it will Disapear like moth -eaten clothings..Now you ask the big Question -

how do i get Supernatural prosperity?

(1) TITHING:


It's impossible to enter into the realm of prosperity if your not a tither..,Malachi 3:10..you have no right to make a Demand from God if your not a Tither.,the Funny thing is: Everyone pays Tithe; you either pay 10% to God or 90% to the devil..
When your a tither,nothing can harm or oppress your family,because the Lord will devour the devourers for your sake
.,you can invoke your Tithe record when you want God to intervene into any matter at all( be it Marital problems,attacks,job seeking,unlimited favours. Etc)..

(2) WORSHIP OFFERING:



deut 16:16, Worship offering is also a vital part and another way to get Supernatural Prosperity..when you give your Offerings,GOD will have NO CHOICE but to BLESS YOU..

(3) KINGDOM INVESTMENT:


When you give towards God's projects(e.g building of church,providing anything the church needs) it's called Kingdom investment. God expects you to key into this area,because He wants to bless you..it's a Covenant demand,HE
blesses you so that you can be a blessing to others,including the church..don't neglect this part, always remember, everything you have NOW is given to you by God; He can demand of it at anytime.
Haggai 1:3-13 .,so be always cheerful and privileged that you've been blessed and chosen by God to help the needies and to invest into the kingdom..

And as you follow all this principles, i See God Blessing you Exceedingly abundantly Above all that you ask for!

In JESUS NAME!

Bro. Kc

BUT all these are contrary to God's supposed powers of omnipotence, independence and free will. How do you align this?!

The difference between adherents of abrahamic faiths and atheists is FAITH. Atheists and agnostics don't have it and without it, they cannot "comprehend" the mystery of Christianity.

Sometimes I'm puzzled by Christian attempts to separarte God from religion, because religion amounts to an acknowledgement of the existence of God and His worship. But I must accept that I don't understand Christianity because of my lack of faith.

LMFAOO!!!

Enigma: ^^ He told you that the founder of the scientific method was Francis Bacon --- a Christian.

Read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bacon

Extract

Its faulty to say the scientific method was founded by Bacon, cos it wasn't developed by a singular process or a single individual BUT with the contributions of great minds before the Scientific method took its shape.

Aristotle and the other Great Greek philosophers get a big share of the praise for initating such a system in its very basic state: abduction, deduction, induction.

Credit also goes to the scholars of the Golden Age of Islam (before most houses of Islam became bitches) for developing an active systemic aspect: experiment. Al Haytham is often regarded as the architect of the scientific method. He believed the problem has to be defined, an observation of the natural world was necessary, create a hypothesis, experiment, make conclusions.

Roger Bacon came along to promote the inductive method as an integral of science. Then Francis Bacon strengthens it. Newton came and develops scientific method as we commonly know it as. And to mention all the philosophers that have thrown more light into what is known as science: Kopper

I'm not taking away Francis Bacon's role but the development of Science was not the effort of one man. Besides its a system of inquiry which most ppl inadvertently use. Early man had built up his knowledge from merely observation, from understanding the effects of fire, to understanding animal trails, weather to farming/irrigation etc.

I also believe that there are undocumented scholars in civilizations in Africa, South America who had always consciously developed science and applied it.

I also asked Ola for bible verses to support the biblical inspiration for the scientific method.

ckkris: Yes, Joshua stopped the sun from setting. That is miracle, which no one can explain. I have also seen a miracle in Nigeria that I cannot explain.

Joshua stopped the Sun from setting because HE BELIEVED the Sun moved round the earth, it seemed logical to him to freeze it at that spot. Which is contrary to scientific knowledge

Enigma: ^^ He told you that the founder of the scientific method was Francis Bacon --- a Christian.

Read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bacon

Extract

Its faulty to say the scientific method was founded by Bacon, cos it wasn't developed by a singular process or a single individual BUT with the contributions of great minds before the Scientific method took its shape.

Aristotle and the other Great Greek philosophers get a big share of the praise for initating such a system in its very basic state: abduction, deduction, induction.

Credit also goes to the scholars of the Golden Age of Islam (before most houses of Islam became bitches) for developing an active systemic aspect: experiment. Al Haytham is often regarded as the architect of the scientific method. He believed the problem has to be defined, an observation of the natural world was necessary, create a hypothesis, experiment, make conclusions.

Roger Bacon came along to promote the inductive method as an integral of science. Then Francis Bacon strengthens it. Newton came and develops scientific method as we commonly know it as. And to mention all the philosophers that have thrown more light into what is known as science: Kopper

I'm not taking away Francis Bacon's role but the development of Science was not the effort of one man. Besides its a system of inquiry which most ppl inadvertently use. Early man had built up his knowledge from merely observation, from understanding the effects of fire, to understanding animal trails, weather to farming/irrigation etc.

I also believe that there are undocumented scholars in civilizations in Africa, South America who had always consciously developed science and applied it.

I also asked Ola for bible verses to support the biblical inspiration for the scientific method.

ckkris: Yes, Joshua stopped the sun from setting. That is miracle, which no one can explain. I have also seen a miracle in Nigeria that I cannot explain.

Joshua stopped the Sun from setting because HE BELIEVED the Sun moved round the earth, it seemed logical to him to freeze it at that spot. Which is contrary to scientific method.

OLAADEGBU: Here is another teaser.

Jesus And The Scientific Method

" . . . and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached" (Luke 7:22)

These were difficult times for John; he soon was to be martyred and sought assurances that Jesus was indeed the promised Messiah of God. In response, Jesus used the scientific method. According to the Old Testament at the time of the Lord’s coming, the blind and deaf would see and hear (Isaiah 35:5), the lame and mute would leap and shout (Isaiah 35:6), and the gospel would be preached to the poor (Isaiah 61:1; cf. Luke 4:18.) This is precisely what was happening with Jesus’ ministry. His works proved His claims.

Two thousand years ago, some were critical because Jesus healed a blind beggar on the Sabbath (John 9:16), but the fact that the man was begging was an indictment against them! The Law stated that God’s people should be generous in their dealings with the poor of the land (Deuteronomy 15:7,8.)

Jesus, by way of contrast, imparted joy to the man. Christ spat on the ground, formed mud, and placed it on this man’s blind eyes. He released him from the bondage to blindness and also fulfilled the Law by opening His "hand wide unto" the same (Deuteronomy 15:8.)

Some religious spokesmen today attempt to diminish Jesus and His works. Denying that He was and is God in human flesh, they also try to cast doubt on the testimony about His miracles. The teaching elsewhere in Scripture seems to apply here as well: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22).

Many poor people today have lives radically changed by Jesus, but others remain spiritually blind. May the same Lord continue to apply His life-transforming mercy to many more today. PGH

For more . . . .

So this is the scientific method you were talking about?! I'm flabbergasted!

ckkris: Kay17,
Sir, would you now finally admit that Bible never, from page one, even remotely implied that the sun revolves sound the earth, as touted by those that rely on humanism. There 're so many scientific truths received by INSPIRATION, when the Egyptian scientists were worshipping the sun. But Christians will not begin to debate these facts with people who intentionally resort to pedestrian chicken and egg arguments. THE MOST HIGH GOD, is The God of Peaceful Harmony. That's why there's perfect order in His design. There is also another that desires to be god, but ends up setting confusion in his wake.

But in the book of Joshua, Joshua stopped the Sun and the implication is the sun moves!

Sheep will always remain sheep

Ngwakwe: How can you post a reaction while excluding the action, you are a hypocrite. Why should African infiltrators though some are refugees be raping Israelis teens and making life unbearable for their host in the first place.

Again do you know that some Israelis do petition the high court on their behalf?

I thought you said Israel is such a bad place why are so many Africans flooding into it and not into 22 Arab Countries.

Just carry you one sided propaganda to where sun does not shine.

How could you say that?! Immigrant/refugees are vulnerable people, they lack a voice, and have minimal rights and always in poverty. Their vulnerable state is not a good excuse to heap all the social ills on them!! Its like Lagos State expelling all Igbo because of crime rate. Its unfair. We should show compassion in our judgments!

ckkris: Kay17,
Who was that Prophet/Great Scientist that so defined the solar system as the regulator of TIME: day, night, years, and reasons, that even human hearts must beat faster than 60spm, or there will rush to the ER. Kay, but you sound like you know quite a lot. This Super Genius even mentioned galaxies and constellations. Please honour and respect must go to whom they're due.

What puzzles me the most about Christian theology; is that considering their God and his perosnality; why is design in God's creation necessary, as he built all from nothing??

OLAADEGBU: Francis Bacon, Lord Chancellor of England. Bacon’s writings are also credited with leading to the founding of the Royal Society of London.

Sir Francis was a devout believer in the Bible. He wrote:

"There are two books laid before us to study, to prevent our falling into error; first, t[quote author=OLAADEGBU]Francis Bacon, Lord Chancellor of England. Bacon’s writings are also credited with leading to the founding of the Royal Society of London.

Sir Francis was a devout believer in the Bible. He wrote:

[size=12pt][i]"[color=purple]There are two books laid before us to study, to prevent our falling into error; first, the volume of the Scriptures, which reveal the will of God; then the volume of the Creatures, which express His power."

Seriously Ola, Francis Bacon is the founder of Modern Science??!!

What verse of the bible points out the scientific method?

[quote author=*Ileke-IdI]But was Fashola not at the scene of the crime?

If he was and he knows that there is an unfair punishment given, shouldn't he act on it?


Prison term is too much for traffic blockade/ lack of provision of "papers". Makes no sense.


In the state of Florida, if a driver fails to produce his/her license, she'd get a ticket. Not some prison term as though the driver killed somebody.[/quote]I believe so too. A ticket might have been better BUT according to what your legislators promulgated, such an offence is chargeable.

^^
Pls who was that scientist?

The police prosecuted him and the bail conditions were lenient though. Also the governor is responsible for the law and order of the state, and should tAke the regular and necessary steps to maintain it. At least today wasn't the driver's day.

vedaxcool: In islam, Allah requires man think, numerous verses of the Qur'an calls man to reason, ponder, consider etc hence faith in Islam is not just to belief but to understand, to reason and to ponder. Reading the Qur'an u will notice what I will call simple rational argument that are faultless indeed. If the skeptic is an honest person reading the Qur'an will serve as an argument for believing in Allah. But you come to find that most skeptics have been indoctrinated to reject the truth of Islam even before learning the truth for themselves.

Good. But before we accept Islam, we must accept the Quran. BUT where does the authority of the Quran come from?? And what provides for it rules of interpretation?

vedaxcool: Islam as we know it today came in 1400 yrs ago, but the Qur'an again establishes what I will call a rational explanation for ur question.

We muslims believe as it is written in the Qur'an that Allah guided humanity from time immemorial till date, as Allah says " there was not a nation we did not send messenger to" hence from the time man was created till date Allah has been sending guide to mankind, hence the message of Islam was present from times past but not in the complete form. And despite the fact that you would not see or hear of people worshiping God as Allah, we learn from the Qur'an that ". . . To Allah are all the beautiful names" hence whether addressed as olorun, omohiri, etc we believe that these could have been names people used to call upon Allah in their own tongue, hence indeed Allah we believe has continue to guide mankind even before the prophethood of muhammad. But we also believe that the pure religion revealed to different nations got corrupted as time went past . . . Most people not believing Islam do so at their ignorance as such.

But we shouldn't make the mistake that every object or being named God is the same the true God. Its only if the ESSENCE of such a being matches with the true God, then they are of the same identity. However the religions you mentioned are polytheistic in nature and is incomplete without reining in the roles and powers of the other Gods, which corrupt and diminish the Essence and power of the true God.

We will have to assume that the True God will have used the BEST form of communication to us.

Messengers: this isn't an effective manner, the credibility of such an individual will be in question. His message can only be believed along with the general standards of evidence. Also being a medium between God and man, corrupts the message, rather than being a facilitator, he becomes a barrier of misunderstanding.

And if God can reveal himself to a messenger, then he can do such to everyone else, cos there is no barrier preventing him from doing such. So a revelation is a direct BUT pure personal message.

Also God would have to keep sending messengers in every generation.

Intuition: what better way for the almighty true God to communicate to us than planting his message, his desires and intents for us in our minds. Free from corruption of other men, and pure. Most of all personal. Every human will be equipped with it. It would be as self evident as our own existence.

Why is Faith so important? How does it convince skeptics?

Islam is said to a true religion worshipping an omnipresent being who is at all times present in time, location and minds of all. Considering the fact that Islam came in its form 1400 yrs ago, which means its message was not present all times and location, since it rose/developed in Arabia. And most ppl don't have the contents/essence of the Quran in their minds.

2good: Normally I wouldn't have addressed logicboy the way i did but he said "Agnostic are Atheist with no balls" because of the little dissenting view we have on the supernatural. I'm generally ok with logicboy's view on divinity because his reasoning allows logical analysis of things but he should open his mind a little bit and be less aggressive in passing his ideas across. I am strongly anti religion but at thesame I accept that religion can also act as a Placebo to some people and give them a momentary relief.
Also you'll noticed I answered him with some humour because I am not angry with his post in anyway and I laughed when I read his response

OK (Y). Differences are natural, and they should be respected.

vedaxcool: Truly much of what you wrote was clearly INCHOHERENT RAMBLINGS, but thanks for your opinion any way, as for your question, you might want to read my post about how the main character in THE RITE was angry and furstrated that the illogical claims of atheism seemed "rational". Or maybe you may want to ask martian how he came to hate what he claims does n't exist.

Since you believe Allah is omnipresent, how do you cope with the contradiction of being in the "true" religion?

And Is Faith compulsory?

What I understood as Spirituality from E-engineer was that it was Curiousity, which of course drives the search for knowledge.

Boith Science and Religion are man's attempt to find knowledge. Religion often is the social realm that holds explanations for reality, man's existence, the nature of his curiousity, society etc. Its kind of an ancient attempt at philosophy as we know it. Also has a role of preserving societal order , status quo OR vent for social change.

For example, Sumerian priests could accurately predict eclipses, yet placed a mystical shroud over such knowledge and exercised immense power which influenced social behaviour, gave authority a legitimacy and other social rites.

Same with the Egyptians, the priests were the intelligentsia. They had scribes, mathematicans, architects, doctors. So religion presents answers, just as modern science does. So its inevitable for both to clash and conflict.

While Science is one dimensional and narrow, religion is more dynamic, diverse, appealing; it goes beyond just finding truth (or what it believes to be), its a basis for ethical values, defines essence of life etc.

My point exactly: there a primodial structure of principles which every entity within it must conform to. It makes reason and order possible and consistent. Its the "Universe"

On the other hand, IF God was omnipotent, he could have in absurdity, bend everything to his will. Create ex nihilo, make married bachelors, made disorder etc. In other words, there would have been a supernatural/irrational world.

Evil/imperfection conclusively proves the absence of a perfect God.

Besides tb1234, most muslims believe God creates from nothing and miracles and other irrationalities.