₦airaland Forum

Good question OP

Most atheists believe religions have an erroneous basis/foundation, so the remaining structure is bound to collapse at some point or be incompatible with reality.

On the questions of existence, purpose, love, happiness and morality, atheists and agnostics do patronise a rich variety of philosophies, such as humanism, nihilism, stoicism, existentialism etc,

Which make interesting use of common sense. One also exercises his mind in thought and try to find his own answers. Some take a blend of all and derive their meanings.

Most atheists like me believe the power of the intellect and the best method in finding the truth and the truth is always self beneficial.

What anti muslim sites?? Its common sense that banditry is NOT self defence!! Address the issue, destroy my misconceptions, don't run to that useless line "No one Knows Islam"

WHY WAS MUHAMMED ATTACKING UNARMED CARAVANS

A leader converted? Probably as a result of force??

We have to be alert to fight the Devil?? Has the omnipotent, omniscient God abandoned you to his rival? #sad

^^^
I'm surprised at you. The goods or money in that caravan was obviously from Syria!! Besides the Arabs regularly run caravans, long before Muslims left Mecca. And there was no declaration of intent by the Muslims to expect their original property to be in the caravans and recapture it. Besides there had been numerous raids on Meccan caravans prior to Badr.

A prior raid on a Meccan unarmed caravan resulted to the death of a man in a holy month, and Muhammed realized it was wrong and against conventions. Before discovering a convenient verse to justify the act.

Vampires and werewolves are REAL??!! I merely thought it was myth. I have to reconsider what I had always thought was myth, but I hope Santa is fake.

Besides while you were feeling that jabbing pain, how did you know it was from a vampire?? Why not a medical problem?

Sweetnecta:
@Kay17: « #2 on: Yesterday at 09:31:58 PM »Someday, you will actually grow up a year to be 18, the legal age in almost every corner of the world. Then you will know that a person oppressed will die every moment until the oppression is lifted, if he ever survived it. Meaning dying a slow death is worse that just sudden death.

LOL!!

[Quote]What about the muslims who left Makka with just the Jilbab they were wearing? You think they were happy being foreigners in Madina instead of living in home town Makka? If you are a man, your type Kay17 is the husband who allows armed robbers to ra.pe his wife, daughters, sisters and mama. This is type of oppression which no soul should allow if he can do something about it. I will rather fight them and lose my life or I take the lives of the robbers. Thats how real man should aspire to do. There are fights worthy of engaging in. Badr was that type of Battle for Muslims[/quote]The
scenario you made is very different from what that which led to the battle of Badr. In your scenario, you are compelled at the moment to take steps of a defensive nature to protect your life and that of loved ones. And considering armed robbers will be using unjustified and unlawful force to deprive you of your life. But in Badr, Muhammed was committed to attacking a caravan (simple traders) whom the Meccan army rushed to protect. Muhammed was more like a highway robber.

[Quote] when you keep my properties and have the gut to remind me that you have it and i cant do anything about it, you better watch out because i will do something about it; try to get it back from you, even if I have to fight you to actually break your arrogance that i couldnt do anything.[/quote]Except if Muhammed was hoping to recover his original property its justified but it wouldn't fall under self defence. But as caravans are nothing but a business trips which all credible states must protect, Muhammed's attacks on them are not justified.

Its an act of the State to do such upon a declaration of war, which Muhammed didn't do.

I think your first misconception was to think oppression was worse than be murdered. Murder deprives one of his life and future and other rights, losing one's life is losing everything.

Most Muslims claim Islam is peaceful and the war verses only apply to self defence. However the Muslims launch numerous raids against the trade caravans both armed and unarmed. The Muslims' state was not under a direct threat or attack from the Meccan state or the caravans. The Badr battle was one of defence by the Meccans ironically.

The Muslims were out of the reach and oppression of the Meccans, so continued oppression is not a ground for attacking commercial caravans. Recovering their original property from the caravans doesn't make sense as they were traders.

@LagosShia

This is a continuation of the Islam Violent thread deleted by the moderator on Zeus knows what ground.

@LagosShia

I wanted you to fully refute the verses and meanings I proffered, how ever it would be useless without mentioning historical events.

The Battle of Badr comes to mind, the Muslim forces went intent on raiding and plundering Abu Sufyan's caravan, the battle resulted as a response by Meccans to defend their property. Raiding is aggression, banditry is criminal. Considering the events and verses purportedly revealed, it quite matches.

No, HE/SHE/IT answers prayers from mountains only!!

@tbaba

You have managed to derail the thread, however to I just want to clear somethings.

Hitting someone is ASSAULT! Its totally unjustifiable even with a toothbrush or broom. Could a woman strike a man with marks too?? Can a woman have over two husbands??

The Islamic/Sharia system is biased towards women. Equality doesn't mean same, that's an absurd definition to give Equality. Women being treated justly could mean adhering strictly to Sharia principles, same with the treatment of slaves under common law or some medieval law.

Western changes in law, proves that morality changes, try comparing morality among countries and prove how they are all the same.

tbaba1234:
I don't know whether any of you have read the Quran but this is silly talk::

It took the western civilisation to the last hundred years to realise that woman could acquire inherit, have a right to an education and a right to vote and work::

The Islamic civilisation had women scholars, dating back to the first century of Islam. Our women have always been part of inheritance::: What ever a woman earns from any work ahe does belongs to her (financial independence),  Her husband has no right to that money,

When did western women start working? ,  Our women have done this for thousands of years before the west took a cue::

For an 'outdated book', that is profound,

Islam has a different take on the role of woman

We do not say Man= Woman, because that is simply untrue, 

We say both parties are treated justly

The features of a man make him better equipped to handle certain responsibilities ; He has no periods or pregnancy, he is usually physically stronger:
So his role in Islam is to cater,protect and provide for his family.

The woman has a role to support her husband, take care of their properties and kids, she is not expected to contribute to the home unless she wants to, whatever she earns from whatever work she does belongs to her:::

As regards "beating the wife", the Quran does not permit a man to beat his wife:

This word is often mistranslated as "beat lightly" It would be better understood as the English term "percuss" (Percuss - a light tap or thump) - an action doctors use while examining patients upper torso - light tapping while listening to their backs or chests.

“Men are the support of women as God gives some more means than others, and because they spend of their wealth (to provide for them). So women who are virtuous are obedient to God and guard the hidden as God has guarded it. As for women who are averse in behavior,
1.) talk to them suasively,
2.) leave them alone in bed and
2.) tap them (like a doctor would tap a patient - lightly), if they open out to you, do not seek an excuse for blaming them. Surely God is sublime and great.”

chapter 4:34

We can't  leave any mark on the body of our wives; we can't strike them on the face>>> It does not refer to physical abuse in any way or form.

The values that Islam has are way beyond the models at the time: It transcended its environment.

This itself has proven a lot. In Islam, women are not seen as equal as men (and they had no problem with slaves), they are more or less second class citizens. They can hardly drive or vote. But in secular societies this Islamic opinion is women is seen as barbaric and primitive. Women are entitled to as much opportunities as men, they exhibit as much intellectual power as men, they don't deserved to be seen as menstrating machines.

As far as I'm concerned, that's assault. One can't be "tapping" any woman he sEes. Besides the instruction doesn't make sense. A man consumed in a fit of rage can't be expected to "tap" gently like a gentle doctor would. Besides variations in interpretation is the basis for domestic violence in most muslim households.

@haribor

Nice to see another female skeptic. But most are in the closets which is unfortunate.

Morality is the subtle rules by which society binds its members. Its a shadow of the law. Its a fact as well ascertainable. Such facts can be gathered across time and place. Reforms and "progressions" in morality prove that morality is not uniform across time, likewise as to place. Unique cultural moralistic identities are seen, like homosexuality is said to be unAfrican, and the Chinese taking State paternality over free speech.

So objective morality is illusionary. The Quran didn't outlaw slavery, didn't raise the social status of a woman to level and equal that of a man, hasn't decried violence on homosexuals or decriminalized it, or made any headway on human rights especially free speech.

The Quran is an update of the Bible, a less primitive book. It belongs to the past.

^^^

And you still insist Christianity is monotheism??!

Your God weeps too??!! Hmmmm

Kslib:
Well,that brain u think u are using to it's fullest to reason the non-existence of God,was given to you by the same God u think does not exist.What a shame!

You worship a MAN, it can't get worse that!

Most animists believe in multiple truths or that multiple views complement the whole truth.

Most animists

I don't think the African religions and cultures don't tolerate atheists or homosexuals, by being polytheistic nature they embrace other religions and views. There examples of Sango being a homosexual.

The Abrahamic religions were not rejected or prosecuted but integrated into their beliefs. There is presently a crisis among the African people. Its one of identity and conscience. The domination of Abrahamic religions and patriarchal ideas and intolerance is in direct conflict with the African spirit which is reflective, tolerant and peaceful.

An atheist will easily be accepted in very traditional setting.

The Bible referred to the Serpent as the most crafty animal in the garden, so that is conclusively not the Devil.

However the Serpent didn't deceive Adam and Eve, but encouraged them to disobey God. It simply reiterated the truth, eat the tree of knowledge and gain knowledge of Good and Evil, eat that of life and be Gods. But God out of jealousy barred them from eating the tree of Life.

God as a dictator didn't want rivals which would have been against his interest, likewise keeping his subjects in ignorance.

But of course the story is obviously not true, but reflects the mind set of those times where authority was seen as sacred and beneficial to society. But we wouldn't appreciate because of our democratic culture.

Another problem with Christian God is that he can only be accepted by faith. Faith itself conflicts with Reason.

Supernatural is an absurd concept, it means an entity acting beyond its actual limits. Like a mango tree bearing apples.

A sinner is a Christian, Simple. Atheists can't be sinners. There is only good and bad.

@Seun

Privatizing the schools is not a bad idea, its just that in a developing country like Nigeria where most ppl live under a dollar a day, education would become the preserve of the Rich. Which is a bad idea. Education is like defence, its a fundamental block of society and not profitable in terms of cash, just in societal stability and growth.

Your arrangement is awkward, you give members of the community nontransferable or worthless (because it can't be accumulated or transferred) shares in their local schools, there is no basis for investment except moral inclinations. Its a business readied to failure. Poor communities wouldn't be expected to give what they don't have, and since education is capital intensive, the same old problems of poor funding, inefficiency, poor structures will remain.

For Africa's special situation, socialist policies are the best. The government is the most empowered entity, it should direct our development. The government is too large, thus inefficiency. This could be nullified with more delegation to other tiers of govt. Local governments' functions, powers and base should be redrawn.

Why everyone blaming the poor guy?? He was obviously under orders and perhaps ignorant about IEDs. It shows the kind of risks Nigerian policemen take everyday despite meagre pay.

At least he was brave enough to put himself on the line, while everyone else scampered off to safety. Someone has to always be brave to handle these sorts of danger. Is he expected to wait till an anti bomb robot is imported?? Nigerian policemen are always under equipped that doesn't stop them from doing their job, someone has to do it.

Even in wartime, no one throws grenades at all suspected packages and gutters!! And spraying IEDs with bullets is not at all an effective means of defusing bombs. That is not enough to detonate it.

Pls and pls don't implicate a poor innocent bystander with amateur speculation. He was filming what he saw and was close to the danger too. It appears he was cheering the sgt too.

Abraham and Isaac are considered to be mythical figures as Oduduwa and Zeus.

But that's contestable

"Aláu-d dín was a king who had no acquaintance with learning, and never associated with the learned. When he became king, he came to the conclusion that polity and government are one thing, and the rules and decrees of law are another. Royal commands belong to the king, legal decrees rest upon the judg ment of kázís and muftís."

"Kází Mughísu-d dín, of Bayánah, used to go to court and sit down in private audience with the amírs. One day, when the efforts were being made for the increase of the tribute and of the fines and imposts, the Sultán told the Kází that he had several questions to ask him, and desired him to speak the plain truth. The Kází then promised to answer in accordance with what he had read in books."

"The Sultán then asked, “How are Hindus designated in the law, as payers of tribute (kharáj-guzár) or givers of tribute (kharáj-dih)?” The Kází replied, “They are called payers of tribute, and when the revenue officer demands silver from them, they should, without question and with all humility and respect, tender gold. If the officer throws dirt into their mouths, they must without reluctance open their mouths wide to receive it. By doing so they show their respect for the officer. The due subordination of the zimmí (tribute-payer) is exhibited in this humble payment and by this throwing of dirt into their mouths. The glorification of Islám is a duty, and contempt of the Religion is vain. God holds them in contempt, for he says, ‘Keep them under in subjection.’ To keep the Hindus in abasement is especially a religious duty, because they are the most inveterate enemies of the Prophet, and because the Prophet has commanded us to slay them, plunder them, and make them captive, saying, ‘Convert them to Islám or kill them, enslave them and spoil their wealth and property.’ No doctor but the great doctor (Hanífa), to whose school we belong, has assented to the imposition of the jizya (poll tax) on Hindus. Doctors of other schools allow no other alternative but ‘Death or Islám.’”

"Now you tell me that it is all in accordance with law that the Hindus should be reduced to the most abject obedience.” Then the Sul-tán said, “Oh, doctor, thou art a learned man, but thou hast had no experience; I am an unlettered man, but I have seen a great deal; be assured then that the Hindus will never become submissive and obedient till they are reduced to poverty. I have, therefore, given orders that just sufficient shall be left to them from year to year, of corn, milk, and curds, but that they shall not be allowed to accumulate hoards and property.”

But Muhammed himself had destroyed idols, preached against it. Is there any Quranic verse that supports the tolerance towards animists??

But its unfortunate that heaven is basically an hedonistic world of mindleSs materialism. What would be the significance of gold laden streets, mansions and Slaves?? Is equality only a secular value? Is heaven just an extension of earth??

Besides, what's the rationale for judging one with beliefs he doesn't subscribe to??

Islam uses State power to gain and keep its followers in line. Free thought is being stamped out, the State jails and hangs people for personal harmless beliefs! An Islamic state is more or less a prison which extends to the mind. Saudi Arabia has a thought police with a fancy name, bars women from being independent, prevents them from driving, deprives them control over their lives, they can't vote, they are nobodies

No one wants to live in a State whereby all other religions are suppressed and where No human rights are guaranteed.

I must commend your hardwork in this article, however you omit Deism as a philosophy or religion that dwells on God too and with entirely a rational basis.

Some issues aint still clear;

If God did create the universe from nothing

Why is worship of God good?

How do we know God has the desire to communicate with us?

If God is good?

Is the use of holy books the sole means through which God can communicate with us?

Why is the Quran not perfect?

Why is the reading of the Quran not perfect?

The gaps, miscommunication, and errors unavoidably made in translation from Arabic to other languages, and differences in present Arabic and in the past Arabic as a result of evolution in the language.

Is Muhammed perfect?

Where there witnesses present during his revelations??