₦airaland Forum

Thankfully, Uyi has nothing to say but quote dead Christian existentialists.

Guy Ritchie Movie! Crazy and Different!

But I love Snatch more. Lets go for Snatch!

In one sense this is correct; however, if you understand both Luther and Tertullian well, you will realize why it is not wholly correct.  Reason on its own, i.e. pure worldly reason, can only take you so far. For example, it may not be able to take you to a point of accepting the virgin birth of Jesus; but when reason is "washed" and cleansed and thus conditioned or influenced by spiritual regeneration (e.g. the Christian new birth), that "holy" reason will take you through and beyond acceptance of the virgin birth.

I th9nkthere is the agreement now that reason and faith are different paths towards different destinations.

Enigma's fault with reason is that it DOES NOT follow the preconceptions of faith! Like the virgin birth. At first instance such a story ought to scrutinized, because it can either be true or false. Joseph Smith's claims of divine revelation can likewise be accepted without scrutiny, there is no difficulty with that!

A simple question, I lay down what are the standards of faith?

Again, another false argument! Whether perceptions of God differ is not of itself good enough reason to deny the existence of God.

I'm concerned with the use of faith, it supports all religions in their different complexions! We are still on the validity of faith.

How is superstition different from faith?

>>> and quid pro quo overlooks how the Dark Ages ushered in the Renaissance Era

After being in the dark, you appreciate light. After languishing in ignorance and superstition, a little light would help.

I will define faith as a blind step. Who agrees?

Enigma:
Similar point addressed by old post here  " . . . someone like Tertullian (himself a great scholar and intellectual) is sometimes referred to as "anti-intellectual" --- a charge that has been refuted in the literature. Incidentally, Tertullian seems to be a particular victim of misattribution/mistreatment as with the "Credo Quia Absurdum" quote -- see here for starters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credo_quia_absurdum."

I'm accusing him for attacking reason! it also points out that reason and faith have different6 destination. Not whether he believes on the basis of absurdity.

Enigma:
The same Luther also called reason "something divine". And those who know Luther's work would explain that in terms of earthly matters, Luther did esteem reason and to some extent even relegated Scripture behind reason on such matters; it is in respect of spiritual matters that he 'denigrated' reason since it has a tendency to lead to idolatry.

From your post,a ready conclusion is reason is deficient in spiritual matters! Isn't that a difference?
Faith asserts the existence of a god or gods,that has been the guidepost of all religions. Yet they are all composed of different doctrines! Are we to accept that Allah, God, Zeus, Jupiter and their gang exists together?

Tertullian's comment that the resurrection is impossible but fir faith is accepted. An unhealthy dose of faith it is, to disregard rationality.

Hebrew was the language God used to create earth and heaven, maybe hell.

Faith asserts knowledge can be sought without evidence or proof, how then can distinguish truth from falsehood? the presence of an idea in one's mind does not constitute knowledge, No it doesn't. Would a persistence make it so? NO! Is it subjected to the test of truth? I must state that rationality of faith is impossible.

Faith vs Reason, an epic battle that has raged on for generations. When human inherent rationality clashes with dogma. Both perceived as tools with which to derive knowledge yet, mutually exclusive. . . Its more like a mountain seperating these two.

Faith could be defined as a commitment of one's consciousness to beliefs that lack sensory evidence or rational proof. Or a belief in god or gods without proof. But the key idea is claiming or holding on to a set of beliefs, in an unjustifiable denial of evidence.

And reason referred to as the proper exercise of the mind, Ayn Rand defines faith as 'the faculty that identifies and integrates the material collected by man's senses.' By abstracting the concretes provided by experience into concepts and aligning these into wider concepts man gains knowledge. Its necessary that for a belief to be built, it must adhere to rational standards. In this manner one is able to separate falsehood from truth. It must achieve internal consistency, must not be contradictory to previous validated knowledge, and must be based on evidence. The certitude accorded must be proportionate to evidence.

All knowledge is open to further deliberation and investigation, none is closed to scrutiny. Reason demands an healthy dose of skepticism and sets evidence as boundaries for certainty.

See what the Christian Father Tertullian has to say
'And the Son of God died; it is by all means to be believed, because it is absurd.
And He was buried and rose again; the fact is certain because it is impossible'.
he goes on and 'wishes a plague on Aristotle', reiterates bible verses 'God will destroy the wisdom of the wise', 'its reason that supplies heresies with their equipment'.

Martin Luther, the Protestant leader and avid Jew hater descibes reason as 'beautiful LovePeddler', 'God's worst enemy', 'the bride of the devil'. 'Faith must trample reason, sense and understanding under ger foot'.

Reason investigates, propelled by doubt, curiosity and sets off on his first step 'i know nothing'. Reason knows nothing beforehand, until he discovers the truth would he assert knowledge of it. But why are they (reason and faith) different? Why do they yield different results?

Would continue tomorrow.

^^ spot on! Faith is never a reliable way to the truth. If it was, it would converge with reason.

'originality'

The loan was meant for whatever business, they contracted for. But what they did not anticipate, was certain sum would be committed for religious purposes, had that being disclosed he would not have been given the loan! Its lying and a sin to you people, misappropriation of funds!

. . be entirely a mental effort

Quantum theory explains a lot on spontaneity of matter, space and time.

Its an exception to cause and effect.

Zikkyy:
Your car is a capital item and you must have tithed on the initial income that generated the cash used for the acquisition.

if you made a profit on the sale i.e. sold in excess of the estimated market value (it may neccessary for you to consult a valuer), the profit (the difference between the sales price and estimated market value) is tithe-able. Another term for this is 'capital gains tithe'

If sold at a loss, i.e. below the estimated market value, it means you must have paid excess tithe on the initial income that generated the cash for the car. You then need to see your pastor for a refund. The refund is calculated to be 10% of the difference between the estimated market value aand the sales value. Its possible you cant get a refund cos the money would have been been spent to meet the unquenchable needs of the church/pastor, so you might need to deduct/recover from subsequent tithe liabilities/remittances (you dont need the pastor's approval to proceed with this approach).

This is the simpliest approach i can think of. There are other more complex approach, but am not sure you will be interested

At the first paragraph, I thought you were serious! But it should apply, great deal of common sense.

toba:
Let me share a personal experience. In jan 2007, i sold a honda accord hala for N100,000&bought same in 1999 for N430,000. The first sunday in february, i paid N10,000 as tithe. To date, i have no regret cos i ve been blessed more now than then. A church member took a loan to execute a contract, N30,000,000&first paid N3,000,000 as tithe(2008). Today hes one of the richest in the assembly.

Is this how Nigerians operate? Commit a part of a loan useless! Its should be govt contract

It is thought to be an alternate path to Truth, powered by superstition.

sorry, i ought to have put quotation marks.

^^

A ba, the guy tried. It just dawned on me how difficult the rescue project could have being. Determined president, loyal workers, planning. . .

@op, they should have being dead!

Who is Soze?

Petty liar, its a pity he's tried in SA, bring foool to Naija and hang him!

I could, if it is very convincing.

Pls then provide here on this thread, an encompassing coherent story of the resurrection of Jesus, the happenings about the tomb.

And also find that balance in Judas' death.

intelligence requires a processing centre like the brain!

@DS
In relation to humans! I have mentioned earlier that innovation in arts, military science, etc

^^ as to the 'us' phenomena. This could be helpful.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enûma_Eliš

@op
Stepping aside from trying to define it as one of degree, as a whole, the ability to perceive and also manipulate one's environment. Intelligence is inseperable from consciousness, its above reliability wholly on instinct. A necessary product of consciousness.The cold reality is life seems more and more like an accident, we more or less dominated by an inanimated world.

Isn't your god life?

Intelligence is the element for creation.

I do think the universe should begat things essential to its continual existence, to which there is no thread of connection between that and life itself. Life is a tiny tiny fraction of the universe, located in a most obscure part of it. Thus, intelligence, a byproduct of life is as insignificant as life is to the universe.

@deepsight, good question

But at what purpose is the universe aiming at?

Your perfect god does not exist!

Unfortunately for you, its up to them to decide that. Religion puts a zip on reason and freedom.

An agreement can do and undo. A woman subjected to abuse, should have the opportunity to opt out. An incompatible couple should be dismantled, rather than cause more damage. A marriage should be one of joy, not sadness and compulsion.

I catch your drift now. On intelligence, the capacity to collect information is more like deciphering a mass of codes, with an analytical appetite. There comes in both generalization and distinguishing. It is to add update knowledge(reservoir of verifiable information), which in turn, converted to practical use.

On your update, I take intelligence to dwell on individual capacity dependent of learning, to acquire information and build on it.