₦airaland Forum

GenBuhari:
Unless we choose to believe that our ancestors where savages who have never seen their reflection and do not know how to value things i.e. that they have the cognitive and reasoning skills of a toddler, we cannot believe that they would have exchanged human slaves who could create enormous wealth for the owner for objects that you do not need like mirrors , textiles etc.

This is our only source of information listing the items being traded, as there is no first hand African point of view we can look to, we have no choice but to go by what we read. Like I said, I don't believe wine and mirrors was just enough incentive to trade workers they were using on their local plantations which generated them way more revenue. There was likely another reason not being mentioned.

GenBuhari:
Before offering human beings wouldn't African Kings with any common sense have offered to barter with other products other than human slaves?

They may have, in fact it has been mentioned that some particular figures such as King Agaja of Dahomey attempted to avoid trading slaves by looking for other ways to generated revenue. He is also especially notable for the local plantations I mentioned earlier.

GenBuhari:
Offering to sell guns to Africans is so odd and incredible that it would be reasonable to conclude that it is not true.
If the Europeans are saying that they came in peace just for honest and fair trade why did they come with guns?
What type of peaceful traders would come to offer sophisticated deadly weapons of war, to a bunch of war-hungry savages (who have never seen their reflection in mirrors and enslaves their enemies for a hobby) in their own land?

So how did Africans get ahold of guns then as shown in the bas-relief I posted? The weapon depicted is a rifle right?

GenBuhari:
If Europeans were just there to trade peacefully why were they trading in the bounty of war (i.e slaves) ?

They had no reason to wreak havoc on a random continent they had no interest in at the time. They already conqoured the America's, thats all they needed until the 19th century.

GenBuhari:
Did you speculate that Africans were buying guns as a future defence against dangerous angry gun-toting Europeans?

No I looked at the medieval palace wall paintings like the one I posted above that told me they possessed guns.

GenBuhari:
So if the Africans did not trust them why would they be giving them humans - men women and children to ship away for a relatively few guns which may or may not have come with bullets which they would have to get from their future enemy.

There isn't evidence of whether they trusted them or not. They bought guns because guns are a superior war weapon.

There is just way too much evidence pointing to the fact that they did indeed own and trade slaves, they owned slaves since civilization began. I suggest doing more research about the slave trade and focusing skeptically on more on these points...

GenBuhari:
Unless we choose to believe that our ancestors where savages who have never seen their reflection and do not know how to value things i.e. that they have the cognitive and reasoning skills of a toddler, we cannot believe that they would have exchanged human slaves who could create enormous wealth for the owner for objects that you do not need like mirrors , textiles etc.

GenBuhari:
Before offering human beings wouldn't African Kings with any common sense have offered to barter with other products other than human slaves?

Than on weather the slave trade actually existed.

GenBuhari:
Being occupied for a year or two after a war does not amount to being colonised.

Because you may as well state that France, Belgium, Austria and other European countries was colonised by Germany during the World Wars.

Liberia and Sierra Leone were colonised by Nigeria during Abacha era.

Or that Iraq, Afghanistan were colonised by by America

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/40760485?uid=3739448&uid=2&uid=3737720&uid=4&sid=21104654804531
Its commonly considered "colonized" by historians.

uzoexcel:
nive one miss meiya...i would really like to knw u outside the walls of nairaland to pick ur brains...i m a lil bit astonished and also ashamed that with all the lil research i v been doing on history especially as pertaining to blacks, i neva thought to look close to home...i never knew about nsibidi till 5mins ago....its a shame that the black continent seems to v thrown away its identity...thnks for this thread...its quite illuminating



guy i m deeeply disappointed..u came acrooss this thread and u couldnt holla @ me










lastly lemme put down a message here
https://www.nairaland.com/872006/destruction-black-civilization-chancellor-williams

https://www.nairaland.com/326177/tomb-art-ancient-egypt-black


Has anyone noticed that we blacks have no positive history?for nigerians, the history taught in schools began with lord lugard and all

Wow really? I'm not from there but I've always heard the education system was biased to westen history/culture and all, but you guys seriously don't even learn about your own forefathers? Wow that country really must be a mess, no Asian/South American county would even allow that.

bennygreat1:
Gotten from the general believe that Woman was gotten from man(according to the holy scripture)From the African context,women re not duly recognise by the society, a woman cannot inherit any of her husband's property cos women are seen or known to promote cultures(norms n values,dos n don't) among the young in d society.

Though in time past,civilisation and education has changed it now that woman ve been able to rise above that level now.... And most them ve a share in properties and even want to be in control of the property..


Women!!!

Then it would've been changed since 3000 years ago when civilization and education first arose in Nigeria.

muafrika:
If they gave us any guns, we would have used them to blow them off the continent once they started misbehaving.

https://amikpon.net/1999-bas_reliefs/Photos/43b.jpg
Seems thats not automatically the case.

GenBuhari:
what did Europeans offer Africans for their people?

Guns, gold, textiles, etc. Aswell as wine and Mirrors (allegedly).

According to Europeans they offered us guns. Ever thought that perhaps as they offered us the guns, they were pointing those guns at us?

They had surplus that they used as incentive.

Why would people that came in peace to do trade be carrying guns?

For sale

Why would Africans require guns for if they were so already successful in war to have acquired so many enemy slaves?

Because angry gun-toting Europeans are a more dangerous threat than crossbow-toting Africans/Arabs.

The more you think about the European version of African history the less credible it becomes.

leave the question of local involvement in the slave trade out of that, and you are certainly correct.

GenBuhari:
From my simple question below, you have now responded to the question twice and on each occasion have avoided answering the question by giving very vague and generalised answers.

I can only therefore speculate that your inability to face the question that I have put to you stems from your (erroneous) belief that you were sold to Europeans as slaves.

[quote author=GenBuhari post=28296403]You are deeply hurt and angry at Africans and most likely very hostile towards Africans and it has crushed your self esteem. You cannot quite forgive your African ancestors for this ghastly act of betrayal that you (wrongly) perceive was done against you.

Well this exactly the intention of the white man's strategy of divide and rule. By educating you that you were sold and educating us (who did not descend from those Africans stolen from Africa by Europeans) that we sold ourselves. They have managed to build a barrier of anger, hostility and distrust between us and you.

I believe you have been nurturing this hostility and anger towards Africans for so long that you do not want to let it go and allow yourself to even begin to entertain the possibility that you may have been mislead all these years into wrongly believing you were sold.

In fact in reality there is no difference between us we are you and you are us. The barrier was placed between us by the same criminals who committed genocidal atrocities against us all (both the home Africans and those stolen and shipped abroad).

If you think about colonialism you would soon realise that us home Africans were also enslaved at home. I feel the same pain that you feel and before thinking more deeply about the European version of history and realising that it couldn't possibly be true. I considered it as a very negative and shameful dark episode in our history.

I notice that you are seeking answers as to why you were sold. Well you were not sold; all common sense, all logic and all independently verifiable evidence free of influence of Europeans (or rather lack of) leads to the conclusion that you were not sold. We Africans did not sell ourselves.

Stop seeking the reason for something that did not occur (Africans did not sell you); otherwise you may waste your life searching for that elusive reason and being angry with yourself because to be angry at Africans is just like being angry at yourself because you are African. You do not have any other motherland.

It is well brother. It is well.

You seem to have comprehension issues, so I'll reiterate. It is beyond my comprehension why you refuse to accept my direct and honest answer to your question, I am now left only to assume that you refuse to accept any answer aside from those pre-manufactured to fit within your expectations (I agree with everything you say vs. I believe my ancestors sold slaves, therefore I hate my ancestors).

I'm also guessing you're new to the culture section and still haven't come across my(or Radillio's) previous contributions here. If you have, you would've known that since I joined NL, I have spent 70% of my time here, more than what I've come to expect of locals, defending Africa's history and culture from a barrage of self-hating inhabitants and outsiders alike. Not to mention as committing to research(as much as my internet/library skills can allow) to provide new info for topics.

Unlike several people here, I actually respect my ancestors for their impressive accomplishments but I also try to remain aware and unbiased to certain aspects of history. I'm seeking proper answers from others for the motivation of local participation in the slave trade because I honestly don't see enough current evidence to conclude that the selling of fellow Africans was done as an act of selfishness as some may have you belive. muafrika made a good point:

muafrika:
And mirrors, imagine that. In African society it was taboo to count ones children, even count reared animals or subject plants to human measurements, just for respect of the sanctity of life, and God. These same people took a whole human to the market, and exchanged them for a stupid mirror? Please!

I don't think that this is evidence against the notion of whether they sold slaves in the first place or not, but I do think its an interesting point that should be looked into by well-meaning historians.

GenBuhari:
You never answered my questions which I quote below

kingston277:
Again, I cannot come to a position on why my ancestors sold slaves because there is no African source relaying what incentives they were given to do so. There are just as much evidence pointing to reluctant slave trading on the merchants part as there is evidence that they sold slaves from greed.

What is it about this response that didn't get my point across? Everybody's ancestors did things to each other. Many even sold each other aswell.
The question is what made them do it, greed, pressure or something else?

muafrika:
@kingston277 Actually, I was surprised to find that even some things like patterns on calabashes had meaning. I just never considered such things as writtings. I have also recently seen a traditional ordaining ceremony where a person was expected to dribble some stuff in ash to prove they were a skilled medicine woman. Then the women elders of the village elders read and approve it. I thought they were just being vain and mischevous. I think traditional medicine men and diviners still have an ancient writting knowledge which elders can decipher. I will be looking at some of these things with a different eye.

Any communication device that can be read like a letter is writing.

"However, such systems are also found in areas where Muslim influence has been less strong or is unlikely. Thus, among the Ashanti and other Akan-speaking peoples of Ghana and Cote D'Ivorie, where gold was of great political, economic and symbolic significance, many goldweights bore signs that indicated their precise ponderal value; other signs corresponded to proverbs, while others represented concepts (for example, certain aspects of the Supreme Being). The nsibidi system of the Ekoi, Igbo and Ibibio peoples of the Cross River area of present-day Nigeria used over a thousand signs to represent a considerable number of concepts as well as some sounds. Nsibidi was used to record court cases and convey complex messages, including warnings in wartime, and for summarizing folktales and personal narratives; its pictograms thus constituted a true writing system. As with the Malian systems of graphic signs, knowledge of nsibidi was often acquired within the initiation societies, but unlike the Malian ones, nsibidi signs were often tattooed on the body or dramatically enacted through gestures."
--Kevin Shllingford (2004) "Literacy and Indigenous Scripts: Pre-colonial West Africa" - Encyclopedia of African History

GenBuhari:
How does it make you feel that your ancestors sold you?

Do you think, that you believing your African ancestors sold you as slave affects the relationship you have with Africa and Africans?

Again, I cannot come to a position on why my ancestors sold slaves because there is no African source relaying what incentives they were given to do so. There are just as much evidence pointing to reluctant slave trading on the merchants part as there is evidence that they sold slaves from greed.

Radoillo:
You are probably referring to a different part of Africa than the parts more directly involved in the trans-Atlantic slave trade. Outside the northern coast of Africa, I don't know of any other part of the continent that held European slaves in any significant number.

Several states all the way down to even Nigeria have been documented to house a few.
http://historum.com/middle-eastern-african-history/68815-slaves-brought-into-sub-saharan-africa.html

Radoillo:
The mode of production in much of Africa (especially the Guinea and the Congo-Angola regions: areas more directly involved in the trans-Atlantic traffic) simply didn't allow for a large internal slave system pre European contact; there were few true slaves in those parts before the coming of the Europeans. In those parts, Europeans did not simply join in and gradually take control of the trade. They actually influenced the trade's development, growth and spread.
The Ijaw people on the Nigerian Coast (for example) most certainly did not have a flourishing slave-procuring and slave-owning society before the 15th century. They were small communities of fishermen. There was practically no place for a slave economy in their type of society. Yet by the end of the 18th century, the Ijaw city-state of Bonny was one of West Africa's busiest slave port. Slave demands in Europe and the New World was directly responsible for that. The Bonny example was repeated in many places throughout West and Central Africa's coast.

Only the large empires of the Sudan and a few other places had what could be described as 'a large internal slave system' (supplying the local elite as well as the Arab-Berber north) that pre-dated the trans-Atlantic traffic. And those states played little direct roles in the trans-Atlantic traffic, hence why I wasn't thinking of them when I made that comment.

As has been specified ealier in the thread, there are different definition of what constitutes a 'slave'. I suppose you are probably alluding to western type slavery which is why you said to 'true slaves'. I'm referring to any kind of low-social class individuals who work for free and can be bough and sold. The amount of slaves owned by any one kingdom depended on the frequency they went to war which was moderate, but there. There are sources stating Europeans simply only took advantage of what was already in place, no influence aside from increased motivation to slave raid occurred via them. If the internal slave system was weak, they likely would've skipped over those areas.

muafrika:
Which Africans? In between migrating and conquering new lands, my people and most other Africans had no time for writting classes. Even in Europe, writting was a preserve of the nobility untill the Industrial revolution when the same nobility decided increase their supply and choice of labour. They created labour production factories that we now call school and take pride blindly in. So, Ancient Africans, writting for what purpose?

Yemen still has African slaves. Just like Morroco, Sudan, and India.

They wrote all the time.
https://www.nairaland.com/189030/african-script

Even their own history
[img]http://raai.library.yale.edu/web/art/4/61933_images_image_467_medium.jpg[/img]
Publication: 1894. Verneau, R. "Statues des rois de Dahomé. Le trône de Béhanzin et les portes des palais d'Abomé, par Maurice Delafosse" [book review]." l'Anthropologie, Vol. 5.

Original language: French

Caption translation: Other bas-reliefs from the palaces of Abomé. (According to the watercolors of Captain Fonssagrives.)

Text translation: “These bas-reliefs, written in a language and with known ideographic and symbolic characters of the only priests of Afa, hold the annals of the Dahomé. It is very curious to find, in a black country, a system of historic hieroglyph that had been thought to have been located in Egypt and in America. The deciphering of these inscriptions, beginning with Captain Fonssagrives, has been continued by one of his colleagues with the aid of the priests of Afa and the princes of the royal family.” (p. 365)

Illustrator: Dietrich; Fonssagrives, signed in LR; Dietrich (engraver), Fonssagrives (artist)

Illustration technique: studio engraving; after watercolor

Radoillo:
OK. This part is clear. But why would you think Africans had to already have an existing internal slavery (and I believe they did have an internal slavery system, albeit small - but let's agree they didn't) before they could be driven by gain to capture and sell slaves to Europeans?

There was a large internal slave system going on, they even enslaved some Arabs and even Europeans in the 11th century as well as other Africans. It was this large, well established system that Europeans joined in on an gradually took control of over time.

HumbledbYGrace:
^ ^ ^ ^

Thanks

Op I think you need to read, do a lot of reading or atleast visit your villages Maybe you can find some information there?

And we still have history repeating itself! Are you a nigerian? How many people sell their children into slavery abroad for money Everyday

The rituals

Slavery didn't come with white men please.

Shakazulu often made slaves the hostage he seized from wars and most of them were his kinsmen unless I am wrong somewhere?

See black people are not stupid. I still repeat, we tell our own stories, white men came with an easy way of sharing it that's all.

There is no evidence anywhere that any African society sold their own kinsmen, only neigbours they went to war with each other.

GenBuhari:
Africans never traded slaves all slaves were kidnapped by the white man at gunpoint.

For the first couple of decades the Europeans first arrived.

GenBuhari:
People should start analysing the history they are given about Africa, was the history not given to us my the white man that colonised us.

Defiantly, but most are too lazy to question why their history is being taught to them by malevolent foreigners.

GenBuhari:
Our people who are descendants of those stolen from Africa, must stop believing they were sold.

Oh, we were sold alright, the important question is why?

GenBuhari:
During colonial days all Africans were considered slaves by the white man not just those shipped abroad. Why a slave master would buy slaves from their own slaves.

True but it wasn't relevant to Africans themselves at the time, Europeans never referred to them as slave to their face.

GenBuhari:
Why would the white man buy something that he could just simply take by force?

As I said, they first started out doing that, but got their a.sses handed to them by the African naval forces, so they had to turn to establishing trading posts.

GenBuhari:
A simple bit of questioning and deeper thinking and analysis would soon lead one to conclude that the lie that Africans traded slaves is just not credible, especially when you remember that it is the white man's history that Africans at home and abroad were taught.

It has been confirmed from both parties that slaves were sold. The real fraud is the alleged reason why they sold so many slaves. We know slaves were traded for guns, mirrors and booze, but are those really the real incentive they traded slaves or is that just anti-African propaganda. Note that there hasn't been a single quote or expression of opinion from the African people themselves during the time about the issue.

GenBuhari:
Africans were victims of genocide we never considered ourselves as slaves. We never agreed to be slaves so we reject the label of Slave. We are victims of genocide and those who called us slaves better stop using that term to describe us. It is derogatory and painful to hear. Let them stop reminding us of the genocide the committed unless it is to apologise or pay reparations.

Why do they not refer to the english being slaves of the Roman's or the jews being slaves of the nazi's .Well white man must stop wounding Africans by gloating at the genocide you committed, by constantly mentioning a genocide that you are refuse to apologise for.

Call me slave and I would call you slave back - Nonsense!!

update: 15th November 2014
If you do not hear from me in the next few weeks it probably because NL has banned me because I cannot stop saying that Ebola and HIV are hoax designed to ultimately lead us into fearfully rushing to take vaccines that would depopulate us. If the vaccines do not kill you directly it would make you infertile preventing you from reproducing.

Be rest assured that all the doctors and nurses reportedly killed by Ebola in Nigeria are paid actors who are laying low and enjoying their money as we speak.

These are the evil European and American enemies that we are allowing to write a shameful and dishonourable history for us.

Second this. But the sale of slaves needs to be acknowledged aswell, and looked into further.

MissMeiya:
I'm equally jealous of scripts like Hindi Devanagarii (अब, दुख की महान सत्य है), Eastern African Ge'ez (አስምዕኩ፡ቃላተ፡ነቢይነ፡ለንቡራነ፡ሀገርየ፡ወባሔቱ፡ኢየብከይዎሙ።), alphabets Greek (Το αρχαιότερο όνομα της περιοχής αυτής), Cyrillic (Древнее название этой области), Korean hangul (이 지역 의 고대 이름), Japanese hana (この地域の古代の名前), and all the alphabets, syllabaries, and logograms inbetween.

And of course, the Chinese logographic system (该地区的古名), which is closest to what Nsibidi was meant to be, if it had been developed.

If you read my post, Nsibidi was developed.

christopher123:
Nsibidi is a system of symbols indigenous to what is now southeastern Nigeria that is apparently an ideographic script, though there have been suggestions that it includes logographic elements. The symbols are at least several centuries old: Early forms appeared on excavated pottery as well as what are most likely ceramic stools and headrests from the Calabar region, with a range of dates from 400 to 1400 CE. There are thousands of nsibidi symbols, of which over 500 have been recorded. They were once taught in a school to children. Many of the signs deal with love affairs; those that deal with warfare and the sacred are kept secret. Nsibidi is used on wall designs, calabashes, metals, leaves, swords, and tattoos. It is primarily used by the Ekpe leopard secret society, which is found across Cross River among the Ekoi, Efik, Igbo people, and other nearby peoples. Outside knowledge of nsibidi came in 1904 when T.D. Maxwell noticed the symbols. Before the British colonisation of the area, nsibidi was divided into a sacred version and a public, more decorative version which could be used by women.

There are thousands of nsibidi symbols, of which over 500 have been recorded. They were once taught in a school to children. Many of the signs deal with love affairs; those that deal with warfare and the sacred are kept secret.[7] Nsibidi is used on wall designs, calabashes, metals (such as bronze), leaves, swords, and tattoos.[2][8] It is primarily used by the Ekpe leopard secret society (also known as Ngbe or Egbo), which is found across Cross River among the Ekoi, Efik, Igbo people, and other nearby peoples.

Outside knowledge of nsibidi came in 1904 when T.D. Maxwell noticed the symbols.[4] Before the British colonisation of the area, nsibidi was divided into a sacred version and a public, more decorative version which could be used by women.[8] Aspects of colonisation such as Western education and Christian doctrine drastically reduced the number of nsibidi-literate people, leaving the secret society members as some of the last literate in the symbols.[9] Nsibidi was and is still a means of transmitting Ekpe symbolism. Nsibidi was transported to Cuba and Haiti via the Atlantic slave trade, where it developed into the anaforuana and veve symbols.[10][11]


Court Cases - "Ikpe"[edit]

The Ikpe from Enyong written in nsibidi as recorded by J. K. Macgregor
Nsibidi was used in judgement cases known as 'Ikpe' in some Cross River communities. Macgregor was able to retrieve and translate an nsibidi record from Enyong of an ikpe judgement.

The record is of an Ikpe or judgement case. (a) The court was held under a tree as is the custom, (b) the parties in the case, (c) the chief who judged it, (d) his staff (these are enclosed in a circle), (e) is a man whispering into the ear of another just outside the circle of those concerned, (f) denotes all the members of the party who won the case. Two of them (g) are embracing, (h) is a man who holds a cloth between his finger and thumbs as a sign of contempt. He does not care for the words spoken. The lines round and twisting mean that the case was a difficult one which the people of the town could not judge for themselves. So they sent to the surrounding towns to call the wise men from them and the case was tried by them (j) and decided; (k) denotes that the case was one of adultery or No. 20.[15]

These are quite interesting, as they can serve as written records from the point of view of the Igbo themselves during the pre-colonial days.
A poster explains Nsibidi, other Nigerian/African writing systems, and modern archaeology very well:

Zarahanair:
KINGSTON said:
This in particular is another negative about modern archaeology that I've been complaining about:
https://www.nairaland.com/189030/african-script
Even the smaller kingdoms left documentation in several forms such as Aroko and Nsibidi, but many historians refuse to acknowledge these forms of documentation as a source of information.

I agree actually- but would only point out that it is inevitable that the big dogs will get more press. I would also agree that we need more research on the smaller areas. Do you have anything more on Nsibidi writing, especially on its origins? From your link, it seems that Nsibidi is an indigenous writing from that was around BEFORE the Arabs showed up. If youe link is combined with other data it seems some of the symbols used go back a long way, centuries before. If this is correct, and Nisibidi writing has been conveying meaning and ideas, then the old claim that sub-Saharan Africa had to wait for Arabs to show up to get writing is completely wrong. I see this wrong on 3 counts:

1) The kingdom of Kush is a "sub-Saharan" entity- the first great empire in SUB-SAHARAN Africa, a fact obscured by the southward movement of the desert, making people once "sub-Saharan", NON sub-Saharan as the decades passed. But Kush had trade and admin links well south into the Sudan, and the Kushites had their own writing system, an alphabetic one in place long before the Muslim era, and quite different from Egyptian hieroglyphics. But even before that elements of Egyptian-influenced script were in place going back to 700-500 BC, also long before any Arabs showed up. QUOTE:

"Kush conquered Egypt in the 8th century B.C., and ruled it for several decades. The Kushitic civilization flourished following the rise to ascendancy of Meroe as the capital city, starting in the 6th century B.C. The sophistication of Kush was reflected in its impressive stone architecture, irrigation systems, a large iron industry, its own script, and a well developed sense of nationhood. The first great empire of Africa south of the Sahara experienced its greatest development during the final three centuries B.C. Its collapse about A.D. 300 seems to have been precipitated by the decline of its agricultural base wing to soil exhaustion, and of its iron industry owing to the over-exploitation of forests for charcoal."
--Robert stock (2012). Africa South of the Sahara, Third Edition: A Geographical Interpretation. 171

2) Ethiopia is "sub Saharan" and also had its own writing system in the Auxumite era- again long before any Arabs showed up.

3) Add in the Nsibidi writing you mention and again, Arabs were not needed to bring writing to West Africa. Indigenous Nsibidi, if confirmed to go back to earlier centuries, (400AD is the date given by one scholar- Slogar 2005, 2007) would give West Africa also, alongside East and NE Africa an indigenous writing system before the Muslim era in West Africa. Early forms [of Nsibidi] apparently appeared on excavated pottery as well as what are most likely ceramic stools and headrests from the Calabar region, with a range of dates from between 400 and 1400 CE.

(Slogar, Christopher (Spring 2007). "Early ceramics from Calabar, Nigeria: Towards a history of Nsibidi.". African Arts (University of California) 40 (1): 18–29; Slogar, Christopher (2005). Eyo, Ekpo, ed. Iconography and Continuity in West Africa: Calabar Terracottas and the Arts of the Cross River Region of Nigeria/Cameroon (PDF). University of Maryland. pp. 58–62.)
=====================================================

Per one reference on Nsibidi it was not simply religious or secret society pictograms but a writing system conveying everyday meaning- from court cases to messages in wartime. QUOTE:

[b]"However, such systems are also found in areas where Muslim influence has been less strong or is unlikely. Thus, among the Ashanti and other Akan-speaking peoples of Ghana and Cote D'Ivorie, where gold was of great political, economic and symbolic significance, many goldweights bore signs that indicated their precise ponderal value; other signs corresponded to proverbs, while others represented concepts (for example, certain aspects of the Supreme Being). The nsibidi system of the Ekoi, Igbo and Ibibio peoples of the Cross River area of present-day Nigeria used over a thousand signs to represent a considerable number of concepts as well as some sounds. Nsibidi was used to record court cases and convey complex messages, including warnings in wartime, and for summarizing folktales and personal narratives; its pictograms thus constituted a true writing system. As with the Malian systems of graphic signs, knowledge of nsibidi was often acquired within the initiation societies, but unlike the Malian ones, nsibidi signs were often tattooed on the body or dramatically enacted through gestures."[/b]
--Kevin Shllingford (2004) "Literacy and Indigenous Scripts: Pre-colonial West Africa" - Encyclopedia of African History


We need to study ALL of Africa and its developments I am sure you agree. NE Africa is just as 'African" as the Guinea Coast. And I agree that there are some people out there caught up in fantasy "Egyptomania" just like the Europeans, who have been the most massive appropriators and copiers of all time- as far as things Egyptian. Bottom line is that African Americans do not need "clearance" from these people anymore, and don't need approval from today's Arabized Egyptians either to study and comment on the Nile Valley. We don't need no badges like the Mexican guy said in the old movie.

We just need to keep building up our own base- our own thing. People should do their own research- Go to Google books and harvest info like that above. I see cats relying on Wikipedia but Wikipedia while sometimes having some useful info is crawling with embedded Eurocentric moles and Administrator collaborators editing out and blockading good, balanced scholarship on Africa. A network of blogs and sites like Nairaland and Egyptsearch is essential for end-running and defeating them- a process that is already well underway and is yielding success with good Google representation, These efforts need to be multiplied. While the moles "guard" obsolete, BS WIki pages, other sites are yielding much more accurate, balanced info. People should harvest as much as they can from multiple sources on Africa, and put it out there on the web like our Nsibidi info.

However we also need to have good evidence and scholarship operating. Too often cats are just relying on sheer speculation an assertion, or using mostly obsolete data from 40 years ago, or taking fragmentary theories and announcing them as the final word on everything, rather than recognizing them as theories that might change. I still run into cats taking bout magical levitation built the pyramids, or "incoming Caucasoids" or "Middle Easterners", as if Africans could not do the ordinary (and advanced) engineering or math necessary. We don't rely on any self-esteem fluff either - which is also a strawman Eurocentrics love to use to dismiss or downplay solid African data. "Self-esteem" is irrelevant- hard data is what counts. We have the hard data, scholarship and science on hand now, with more coming every day, to truly place Africa at the center- whether it be Egyptian Nile Valley, Kush, Nile Basin, Sahara or other parts and cultures.

Zarahanair:
This is not so. In fact, African civilization is a recognized and worthy field of study pursued by serious scholars, over and above the Egyptian piece that is part of Africa. As noted above, most AAs do not have much obsession with Egypt to the neglect of West Africa. Keep in mind also that Egypt is part of the Nile Basin which covers up to 11 African countries and up to 10% of the African continent, even slicing into the Congo region and a bit of West Africa. Then there is the Sahara, also a "pan African" entity that gave birth to not only Egypt but the Saharan/Sahelian kingdoms of West Africa like Mali. Black folk cannot credibly claim to be studying their history while ignoring such connections, and how they shaped Africa's peoples.

I was emphasizing that many still do. There is indeed alot of research going on across the continent, especially by Africans themselves. Ancient Egypt praise is always louder despite the discoveries.

Zarahanair:
Serious scholarship is expanding our knowledge every day. Big Dogs get more press than smaller dogs. The EMpire of Mali gets more press than the forest kingdoms of West Africa because it was bigger, wealthier and left more documentation behind. Likewise other areas of Africa aren't being neglected just to neglect them or because of inferiority "complexes." There are real problems with documentation and money for research. If one million is available to study small scale coastal fishermen versus ancient Ghana's gold mines or army, most of the money is gonna go to the big dog- Ghana. Evidence and research has to be done, and as can be seen, this is a lot more than stories.

[img]http://1.bp..com/-QjhHlXsmKKY/U_LDXjnVLXI/AAAAAAAABJg/WGWWrP68RM4/s1600/data_nile_river_basin.jpg[/img]

This in particular is another negative about modern archaeology that I've been complaining about:
https://www.nairaland.com/189030/african-script
Even the smaller kingdoms left documentation in several forms such as Aroko and Nsibidi, but many historians refuse to acknowledge these forms of documentation as a source of information.

Omarbah:
Are you serious? Here is a quote from The Economist , "Even though pro-European mainstream parties have been weakened, they still have a two-thirds majority in the European Parliament." A two-thirds majority after the EU parliament elections of 2014 that saw the biggest rise of Eurosceptics. So I don't know where you get you "puny number of pro-union" thing from.

Hmm. And to which party are these Euroskeptics affiliated?

Omarbah:
Amun and I are on the same page so I do not know what you are talking about.

I don't recall Amun mentioning anything about unionizing politically. Only utilizing existing organizations like AU and ASF.
Even back in the days, such a concept existed among the kingdoms but didn't commence when the foreigners invaded.

Ploy:
If language is the bane of development in colonized nations, what of Ethiopia that was never colonized and was one of the emancipated ancient nations?

Ethiopia was colonized in the 1940s.

Ploy:
With the language of the colonial masters, Africa can be what she ought to be if the leaders are disciplined. Don't forget that English language has become a global language.

I don't know how that would help mother than having the government and private sectors do buisness with forigners. By your logic, the Japanese speak English?

YungwizzzyPt7:
So how come we are this backward?

]

kingston277: http://historum.com/middle-eastern-african-history/70114-african-culture-9.html
https://www.nairaland.com/1796503/traditional-african-boat-designs
http://historum.com/middle-eastern-african-history/58840-diversity-early-african-architecture-ruins-thread.html
https://www.nairaland.com/1249503/interesting-images-precolonial-early-colonial
https://www.nairaland.com/582176/benin-art-architecture/
Edo Kingdom(Nigeria)
https://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/ya51284efa.jpg
https://www.manswersonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/sungboeredo1.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sungbo%27s_Eredo
Asante Empire(Ghana)
https://i.imgur.com/QpTDdgx.png?1
https://i.imgur.com/coycsF8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ERIeZwv.png?2
Kongo
[img]http://hitchcock.itc.virginia.edu/SlaveTrade/collection/large/VILE-180.JPG[/img]
https://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg5zbsqq1K1qgfbgio1_r1_1280.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gKuKI2T.jpg?2
Nsibidi(Igbo writing system)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nsibidi
More...
https://www.nairaland.com/189030/african-script
Production
http://der.org/resources/study-guides/blooms-of-banjeli-study-guide.pdf
[img]https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/1554585_african-productivity_jpeg73ad16662aab95c5e70965fc917f4ece[/img]
Bathrooms
https://i.imgur.com/yTkf0BO.jpg?1
Science and Tech
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science_and_technology_in_Africa
"Human sacrifice" was actually capital punishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Benin_Expedition_of_1897
Human rights concepts
http://www.kentlaw.edu/faculty/bbrown/classes/HumanRightsSP10/CourseDocs/9BanjulCharterandtheAfricanCulturalFingerprint.pdf
http://eccentricyoruba./
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/nigeria/precolwon.html
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/nigeria/colonwom.html

I know its alot of links but its important for you to know. Plus the above is just West Africa/Central alone!

Try the mirror.

Ploy:
I thank you, I appreciate your pride in the lost glory of Africa but how can we escape from the claws of bad leaders and take our place in the world?

Literacy started from Egypt Africa
Mathematics from Ethiopia, Egypt, Swaziland.... These are good stories in their time, not now. Our leaders are killing our tomorrow.

I'm proud of Africa but tired of mediocrity.

You might want to seek some enlightening from here:
https://www.nairaland.com/1915272/what-preventing-africa-experiencing-cultural

blizard44:
Funnily the irony of life.

The first became the last.

I wonder why...

The comments are weirder.

Omarbah:
Yeah right, five men, that's why the EU despite the crisis is still standing. After all the pro European parties still dominate the EU parliament despite the noise. That should give us something to think about.

Still doesn't excuse the fact that a puny number of pro-union individuals just won't cut it. The party needs to be in agreement first which they are clearly not.

Omarbah:
Don't make me repeat myself. I have stated my views on the ASF and talked about how the AU or ECOWAS should be financed.

I already explained my stance many times earlier and Amun's point still stands.

Omarbah:
My last comments have addressed that opposition. I even posted a video of Maggy attacking the EU commission. So I do acknowledge the opposition. But what you seem to ignore is the desire for those running the organization to make it stronger and that's what I am focusing on.

Five men pushing for a united Europe doesn't cut it.

Omarbah:
Beyond the economic and political zone(one market , one diplomacy) we should also have one military, at least one Navy and a regional police/paramilitary force to deal with groups such as Boko Haram that operate on multiple countries.

Militaries that are instructed under agreement to defend with each other from a common enemy, like the Canada/US deal or some pre-colonial villages for that matter. As was stated above, the ASF pretty much already does the job.

PAGAN9JA:
College/University itself came from the Pagan Indo-Aryans ( Hindus) , Greeks , Egyptians , etc. You can read about the Universities of Nalanda & Taxila/ Takshila , Alexandria, etc.

Thats not what i'm talking about.

In contrast, the calmecac is more akin to a seminary, elite prep school, and college rolled together. Primarily attended by the offspring of the noble class, it’s reported that certain common-born children of especial talent were allowed to go as well, despite their lineage. Here the children would learn basic priestly training, military skills, the arts, etiquette, and leadership. While we have records of these two schools existing within the walls of Tenochtitlan, it wasn’t until 2007 that archaeologists had uncovered the remains of any part of these two educational complexes. If you would like to read an article in the Christian Science Monitor reporting on this discovery, please click HERE. (It includes a photograph of one of the ornaments that once decorated the roof of this indigenous American university — the cross section of a twisting shell, named the “wind jewel,” a symbol of Quetzalcoatl the Plumed Serpent, lord of learning.)

http://tlacatecco.com/2012/08/31/aztec-schooling-calmecac-and-telpochcalli/

zeemahn:
How

Serious question? Read the passage again.

PAGAN9JA:
Yes and No. We had indigenous education and apprenticeships in pre-colonial times. The british version of education was just more organized and advanced. in other words, it is just alike technological advancement. Nothing to do with my culture.
True and rightly so, as it serves as a link language between different tribes and the world, especially for official work. Yet it is not the National language. Nigeria has no National Language because to each individual, his/her mother tongue is the first and National Language to that person.

I am willing to bet they had prep-schools and "colleges" in pre-colonial times aswell. The pagan Aztec had them after all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calmecac
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/90096/calmecac

pureIvory:
I think religion is not to be blamed for the atrocities going on in Nigeria and Africa in general. What should be blamed is the way people understand it.
People pray for something but they don't work towards it that's just the problem.
people use religion to cover up their evil deeds which is bad.

Even before the whites came we believed in one true God that is master to small gods and we did things for ourselves and pray to God who rewards our efforts.We had a wonderful way of living. Good leadership, good management and even inventions. No one was brainwashing us into believing in what we believed as you say the whites brainwashed us into believing in God and the commandments of God.

As a matter of fact we should be thanking the missionaries cos they were the ones who really came to our aid by teaching us unlike the colonial masters who came for their own gain. The missionaries helped stop most of our evil believes such as killing of twins etc and what we do now is say they harm us with their religion.
If you say Africans are still slaves to the white then you are saying the truth cos you are still a slave mentally even when you think you are an exception because you don't believe in religion and the way Africans think, you actually do cos if not for what you see and think of the whites and how you so much want Africans to be industrialized and developed like the whites instead of developing Africa in its own unique way so the whites will want to be like Africans.
Or have you forgotten that civilization started in Africa?
Why did we send them back to their country saying we don't need them when we end up doing things the way they do instead of doing it the African way.

Instead of saying religion did this and that why not just change the way we understand religious teachings and the way we hold the whites high.

This post was intelligent near the beginning, then turn to ethnocentric fantasy in the middle, then began to make sense again at the end.

zeemahn:
Werewolves

Zombies
BY THOR JENSEN
The shambling brain-eaters seen on The Walking Dead are obviously scientifically impossible – when electrical activity stops in the brain, the body stops moving. Or does it? Legends of zombies come from Haitian folklore and the religion of voodoo. Originally, a zombie was a living person whom witchdoctors had placed into a state of “living death,” unable to act on their own but capable of carrying out simple commands. The folklore says that they use a powder called coup padre, which contains the poison tetrodoxin – the same thing that gives the pufferfish its sting. It causes a rapid drop in heart rate and a stiffening of muscle tissue, making the subject resemble a corpse. Whether this really happened or not is debatable, but that’s the root of the zombie archetype.

...And the technological know how of the Medicinemen keeps revealing it self more and more.

Oldest People on the continent.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/San_tribesman.jpg/200px-San_tribesman.jpg