₦airaland Forum

mcfarlin: I don't know about hausa but yoruba's I.E the idolaters... pratice evil-money rituals,human sacrifice and other nefarious activities

You can thank colonialism which enabled adulterated practices. Something tells me you are neither yruba or hausa. GTFO with your tribalism, you're taking Nigeria further backwards.

mcfarlin: Sorry I admit I don't know about hausa traditional religions I thought you were yoruba.

Yes no graven cross in my home and in my church as I said earlier

Am a member of the church of christ.

And I don't need to form an image of GOD in my mind..GOD is spirit and those who worship him must do so in spirit and in truth.

What he says applies to both.

mcfarlin: Thank GOD you admit your folly

Huh?

Na only if your papa dey craze na only dat fit make me open doz stoopid links.

Are you an illiterate by any chance?

dazzle37: Like I pointed out in the first line of my sentence, I already said that the picture posted was not accurate

You meant this?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Ikpe_nsibidi.jpg/400px-Ikpe_nsibidi.jpg
I may not be in proper order from whatever calabsh it was copied down from but it is legit from a man named Macgregor in the 20th century:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nsibidi

and yes it is possible to write names and even make a full sentence with Nsibidi if you understand it and know what you are saying, but it is mostly by hand signs like communicating with sign language to a deaf and dump only that in nsibidi, the sign means a totally different thing from the normal deaf and dump sign language. it helped our forefathers then to communicate with each other from a distance without necessarily shouting on top of their voices.

You know what? I came across another person on a wiki talk page that was arguing about the same thing:

Onuaha(a boy's name)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/Onuaha.jpg/300px-Onuaha.jpg

Wikipedia Talk: Already the effect of Europe is being felt on nsibidi, and it is urgent that as speedily as possible the collection of the signs should be completed. It came as a painful surprise to me one day when Onuaha brought me this sign and told me that a boy of his own name had given him it that day (I was in Umon at the time) and said that it was the nsibidi for Onuaha. The first two signs are corruptions of the English capital letters N and A whilst the third sign is distinctly reminiscent of more than one nsibidi character.' — J. K. Macgregor (1909)

The script had evolved (with influence) which ticks the boxes that Christoph Päper noted that some linguistics laid out as the conditions for writing: "Also, since the line is often hard to draw, many scholars include pictographic or ideographic symbols under the notion of writing, if (and only if) they’re retained in a later writing system".
Wholly ideographic scripts do not write peoples names. Ukabia - talk 00:01, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Uh, Ukabia, you do understand that Macgregor's fear was that this was *not* nsibidi, don't you? That is was a corruption caused by the influence of the English alphabet? As you say, wholly ideographic scripts do not write peoples' names: and it appears nsibidi requires an external alphabet to manage this. — kwami (talk) 01:46, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

What Macgregor said was that nsibidi is being corrupted, not that this is not nsibidi. Macgregor said two out of the three signs were corruptions of English letters. What is the last sign which he described as "distinctly reminiscent of more than one nsibidi character", an ideograph, for a name? By the way, did you note the use of the word character which you removed from the nsibidi article because, in your opinion, nsibidi isn't writing and therefore can't use the word?
The (supposed) influence of European text itself doesn't explain how somebody who is literate in nsibidi and not fully in English letters would understand the concept of using symbols to write their name; if they are just mistaking English letters for nsibidi, how can this be when:
"nsibidi is not writing" and cannot be mistaken, because that would be like mistaking road signs for Latin.
nsibidi is completely ideographic so who told the boy he could write his name in nsibidi if the third symbol is uncorrupted nsibidi?
on another note, why would Elphinstone Dayrell (Further Notes on 'Nsibidi Signs with Their Meanings from the Ikom District, Southern Nigeria., 1911, pg. 528) call the sign for nsibidi "Nsibidi name written"? Again, complete ideographs cannot write names, and a name for a writing system is certainly not ideographic. Ukabia - talk 02:57, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

My question is, how does nsibidi go about writing names? Since nsibidi is and ideographic system, such a thing should make that impossible but apparently it IS possible.
If nsibidi symbols can express itself as well as spoken alnguage, that would not only make it the worlds first discovered true seismographic writing system, but debunk this man
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_DeFrancis

I don't understand what you are trying to ask here pls explain further.

Igboland(as was most of Africa) was home to several ancient civilizations including nri, awo, etc. How can you civilize a civilization?

mcfarlin: Hmmmm please let your GOD fight for himself na

Na una sef dey make am lazy

Abi na mumu

Until you learn your history, you are in no position to preach ignorance.

Wow the whitemen really did you in didn't he? Turned you into a third-class slave

mcfarlin: Yeah all the wars u mentioned are typical guerrilla warfare.

Those were all organized and pre-planned, get a history book.

Also the african god couldn't help them in their thinking and shift them from primitive existence.

Put your undeucated brain to use and learn:
Writing system
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Ikpe_nsibidi.jpg/400px-Ikpe_nsibidi.jpg
Production
[img]https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/1554585_african-productivity_jpeg73ad16662aab95c5e70965fc917f4ece[/img]
Government transparency
https://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s417/KingMichael777/precolonialghana38_zps55bfc7ef.png
Even bathrooms
https://i.imgur.com/yTkf0BO.jpg?1
Please open your ignorant mind to the real world instead of the theme park version taught by your white masters:
http://historum.com/middle-eastern-african-history/58840-diversity-early-african-architecture-ruins-thread.html
https://www.nairaland.com/582176/benin-art-architecture/

Couldn't give them the brains to advance in science rather they were consoled and are still consoling themselves with witchcraft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science_and_technology_in_Africa

Couldn't make them reason beyond abominable practices like killing of twin

Up to now, still can't prove that even existed beyond your silly imagination let alone widespread practice.

Couldn't teach them that female genital mutilation is wrong

Because the white man doesn't still do that today /sarcasm.

Couldn't ask them for anything but HUMAN sacrifice

Read and educated yourself(the e-book included)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Benin_Expedition_of_1897
"Human sacrifice" was actually revealed by archaeologists to be capital punishment.

In short couldn't debar them from being plain stoopid and useless savages!!!.

The above links will sure make you weep, "stoopid and useless" slave.

TerryCarr: to a degree but they are from Tanzania so they are gonna be dark.

Sure, because of the influx of cushite and bantu migrants.

mcfarlin: Talk about backwardness in the 21st century.

This same “gods” couldn't hinder colonization from occurring

They couldn't prevent the white men from defeating their so called powerful KINGS.

But I still love the principle of leaving their gods to fight for them unlike some other religion who fight for their spineless god!..

The whitemans christian god couldn't help him defeat Nigerians until practically the 20th century
He couldn't help stop the takeover of the moors over Spain
Couldn't help hinder immigration and takeover of government positions
Couldn't stop Africans from frequently raiding the fort towns
Couldn't help defend the christian Ethiopian, Nubian and Egyptian kingdoms from whiteman's conquest(christian self-haters like to ignore that)
Couldn't help defeat the Haitians and save his people from their take-over, etc.
And people still believe Nigerian were the only people in the world taken over, too.
Spineless people!

dazzle37: The picture someone posted showing the language is not accurate please. my father is a chief and a village head in cross river, Calabar, ( Efik) to be precise and understands nsibidi and still playfully does some of the languages when the Ekpe masquerade comes to our house during the festive period to pay homage, and he tries to teach some to us and interpret a few meanings to us. So I would say that it is not really a big deal, just some ancient ways our fore fathers used in communicating back then before the Europeans came with civilization. he still tried to teach us the real deep efik language not the diluted ones we all speak today but its a bit hard to learn and since its no longer in serious use, I don't really bother. besides, the ekpe society is not only for men but the ladies too but the lady in question has to be a true blood not mixed blood. e.g both parents have to be from the efik tribe, not one parent being efik and the other Yoruba or Igbo or any other tribe. however, they have different levels at which you can attain in the ekpe and the lady can never reach the same level as the boy. the boy has no limitation but the lady has. the boy can get to a level called ( Efamba ) but the lady can never get to the efamba level. ( speaking from full experience and knowledge).

Are you aware of weather it is possible to communicate or write names with this system? There was a sample provided on wikipedia but someone pointed out that the seismographic properties should make such a thing impossible.

dazzle37: just some ancient ways our fore fathers used in communicating back then before the Europeans came with civilization.

How can you civilize an civilization?

baby124: You are the biggest fool. You think with your yansh. No we did not have fork and knife for eating. Only Spoon at the most. Anything close to a knife would have been something spear like for wars.which is shown in the writings. Soon they will add guns and you will come and tell me dumb ass tales about who invented guns. Buhahaha. Low thinking insect like you. Fork and knife for eating is a foreign influence.

*sigh*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nsibidi

ITbomb: The highly placed people and intellectuals belonged to the Ekpo society as the then authority.

So it was not surprising when the first missionaries saw the demystification of Ekpo society and all its values as a foothold to capture the hearts of the locals.
Displaying a superior lifestyle and equipments (wine and guns inclusive) , they convinced the locals that if they want to be like them, they should send their children to be educated by them.
By that singular concession by the then leaders, the next generation was lost to the white men and subsequently the whole culture and values systematically debased by the white men as diabolic and eradicated while they imposed their history and writing on the locals.

Not surprising that one of the first group of ethnic group in Nigeria to get 'Written Words' carefully crafted out from the English alphabets was the Efik as that was the best means to displaced the already existing form of writing.

Nsibidii, lost forever while we grumble with half knowledge and misinformation (worse than to be uninformed)

What was superior?

nexstorm: We never kept dates and record of events, research and all transferable knowledge .that's Black Man for you. But what saddens me is the idea of throwing away our own works and understanding For another mans knowledge instead of merging it.. Now we have a problem of doing it our own way and we are finding it difficult.. And about the Topic, it was a writing system for a particular set of people who would be refered to as cult.cos they agreed to the same thing.But I think it wasn't generally accepted..*pls note, its my opinion*

Really? So then what is this?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Ikpe_nsibidi.jpg/400px-Ikpe_nsibidi.jpg

TerryCarr: the hadza are similar to the Khoisan, complete with click language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadza_people

https://www.shadowsofafrica.com/media/wysiwyg/tanzania/hadzabe.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3SbzQ6F7fQ

I think they might be mixed. There is evidence they are at least part Khoisan.
[img]http://2.bp..com/-FPXd4nNFcTg/UGOJp-OXwdI/AAAAAAAAEPM/pUJdVCj1grw/s1600/7525290428_3d3c53a38e_b.jpg[/img]
https://oi58.tinypic.com/2m81enl.jpg

anonymous6: [img]http://geocurrents.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Africa_Official_Language_map.jpg[/img]

We sure are masters in this...
https://walkworthy.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/kissing-feet.jpg

ucheokpara100: Dis false and brain washin traditions are introduced by old lazy thiefs then called chief, nt we hv new generation con men cultures introduced by pastors over takin d ones of old fools, new once now are, pray against any evil net hanging ur prayers on d air, evry evil swallowing ur cold prayers cause thy are nt hot enough 4 d devil reasons being ur nt riteous enough 2 produce hot prayers, etc

Old fools?
[img]https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/1554585_african-productivity_jpeg73ad16662aab95c5e70965fc917f4ece[/img]

Some people just enjoy backwardness as long as they remain far away from their forefathers.

TerryCarr: like most of the world. your point?

The oldest bones found resembling Khoisan are located in that general latitude.

TerryCarr: to be fair they live in southern Africa

But originate in Ethiopia.

Fulaman198: Yep, that's true. Sometimes I wonder but I don't want to point fingers but sometimes I wonder if countries like England, France and Portugal made Africans more corrupt.

Possibly, but I believe more in particular colonization, religious conversion, collapse of traditional infrastructure and institutions, mis-education, etc are all what contributed to today. These are the fault of both parties, Europeans were/are selfish civilization destroyers while the colonized remained brainwashed and became a sort of uncle tom, preventing the re-establishment of indigenous civilization.

jantavanta: So you quote Zahi Hawas, the Turk mulatto descendant who speaks for his European sponsors?

Maybe you are in the 'Hamitic' or 'Semitic' classification circle. So do my lighter-skinned Swaziland friends qualify as less African? Do all Africans have to be charcoal black? Are all Whites of the same skin tone? Why should there be only one kind of Black person but different shades of White from from darker skinned Portuguese, Spanish, Italians, to near-albinos?

Heck, even the original Africans were light
https://www.zanzibartribalart.com/images_0-f/bushmenfamily.jpg

Rossikki: First of all I do not see the country as being "destroyed". The fact is we have developed in many areas since independence. Education, infrastructure, healthcare - all have improved in the last 50 odd years. And today we stand as Africa's largest economy with an economic growth rate of 7% per annum and an expanding middle class, an expanding manufacturing base, and agriculture seeing its biggest boom in half a century. Even the railways are being revamped after 30 years of neglect by the military. So there are things to be cheerful and hopeful about.

1."Education"-depends on what kind, many "world class educated" Africans cannot feed themselves without world vision.
2. "Infrastructure"-sure, if you count rail roads I guess.
3. "health care"-Thats not what some people say, I've heard people l've longer in the pre-colonial times.
It is also know that overall production is less than in the 19th century. Kano exported 10 million sandals and 5 million hides to north Africa alone during those times, how much do they export today?

Rossikki: A people get the leaders they deserve. It is the degeneration in the population that leads to them throwing up dodgy leaders. Until we go back to loving one another, loving our colour, our cultures, race, religion, and stop the self-hate, stop the love for anything foreign, stop the skin bleaching, stop the ill-effects of colonial miseducation and anti-African sentiments, we will never produce the type of leaders we had in the glorious past. It all starts with us, because our leaders come from us, not from outer space.

So sad this doesn't exist anymore
https://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s417/KingMichael777/precolonialghana38_zps55bfc7ef.png

juman: You are correct.

They are very corrupt, very selfish and very unserious.

They don't represent their subjects, they represent themselves and their families only.

That's part of the reasons why we have a failed country.

Fulaman198: Exactly, completely not like the African leaders of old. We need to get rid of them in order to build up a better nation. Plus we need a strong and fair President who cares about the wonderful Nigerian people

This is mostly due to lost respect for traditions and customs. Kings in the pre-colonial times could never steal from their people because they believed they could be punished by the gods, get hit with a curse, or nullify the kingdoms existence(competition) which they themselves likely founded. This is why kings like Pharaoh Ramses II built an entire city in his honour which doubled as infrastructure for his people. Same with Oloye Bilikisu Sungbo and Sungbo's Eredo.

Rossikki: The same thing that will happen to Europe in future. Or America. No civilization remains on top forever. They reach a peak and then begin the inevitable decline. Human factors to do with complacency, greed, arrogance, infighting, etc always set in...plus even natural factors like environmental disasters and setbacks. In Africa for instance, the desertification of the once fertile and lush Sahara caused all sorts of problems for African civilization. It led to mass population dispersal, social upheaval, reduced soil fertility, fiercer competition for arable land and water leading to conflict, ethnic distrust, social fragmentation etc etc. The biggest threat to modern civilization today is nuclearization and environmental degradation. But just as soon as this civilization ends, another will emerge to replace it, however long it takes.

Luckily, Africans after desertification persevered and still managed to build civilizations much greater than ancient Egypt.

Interesting read about traditional human rights concepts
http://www.kentlaw.edu/faculty/bbrown/classes/HumanRightsSP10/CourseDocs/9BanjulCharterandtheAfricanCulturalFingerprint.pdf
http://eccentricyoruba./
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/nigeria/precolwon.html
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/nigeria/colonwom.html
Op, enough with the pro-Christian/Muslim propaganda.

I came across this entry on a website that seems to have been also echoed on wikipedia.

Philosophical atheist thought began to appear in Europe and Asia in the sixth or fifth century BCE. Will Durant explains that certain pygmy tribes found in Africa were observed to have no identifiable cults or rites. There were no totems, no deities, and no spirits. Their dead were buried without special ceremonies or accompanying items and received no further attention. They even appeared to lack simple superstitions, according to travelers' reports.[citation needed] The Vedahs of Ceylon[clarification needed] only admitted the possibility that deities might exist, but went no further. Neither prayers nor sacrifices were suggested in any way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_atheism

Does anyone know if this is true?

@ Koyyes

@ Koyyes

PAGAN9JA: We are waking up now. We will soon send missionaries.

I consider myself a missionary.

WE were sleeping all this while.

Have you ever had missionaries in the past? Is it allowed in your religion or taboo?

Hey, Koyyes!
www.nairaland.com/attachments/1077174_x2_eabb6a7_jpg2000c2798bcd7dc548d6cae3372e9cf2
Get on!

"#laughing and rolling on my locally made bed#"
www.nairaland.com/attachments/1077174_x2_eabb6a7_jpg2000c2798bcd7dc548d6cae3372e9cf2

PAGAN9JA: hi


please convert to African Traditional Religions. NOW IS YOUR TIME!

Know what? I've never understood how you guys stood your ground for so long without missionaries of your own going around converting people. How do you expect your religion to thrive when followers of the Abrahamic religions are busy taking your people.

@ Koyyes
Still resorts to ad hominem attacks to get his points across. smh.
Doesn't know the history of his own continent and compensates by making historical fallacies mentioned by RandomAfricanAm, a poor grasp of the topic of discussion, poor grasp of the topic in his link, throws tantrums whenever his point is proven wrong, poor typing skills I might add, doesn't even know who TerryCarr and co. are, follows me around the forums replying to each of my quoted(duplicated) posts like an errand boy, couldn't even cite a source to save his life but would rather throw insults left and right as if that somehow validates his weak points.
And above all, sounds like a broken record doing the above.
Smdh.