₦airaland Forum

Omarbah: @ kingston277,
are they going to apologize for something they have not done? Further in your post you mention this "Some, like Benin, place heavy restrictions on the number of slaves sold to increase production and ceased to become a notable slave trading kingdom since." So they did sell slaves right?

Sure, which civilization on this planet did not sell slaves. Infact whats wrong with selling slaves? Kingdoms need to fuel each other with workers and people need to pay off their debts, after of which they are allowed to return home unless their owners refuse as seen in the case of US slavery.

Omarbah: You mentioned how Benin placed restrictions on the slave till a certain level of production was reached meaning its economy was weaker. That's my point, these states could not stop the slave trade at first, it flourished because we did not have a stronger state.

Where did you read into that? It goes to show that you need to do away with your ethnocentric views while discussing this issue. I said level of production in thigs like pepper and palm oil, this is well known, no increase if an increase/decease in production occurred, it fluctuated and occurred throughout the history of Africa, it had nothing to do with Europeans or slave trade. The Banjeli were noted to have high production values in steel/iron in the 19th century but there is no documentation about when this high production in metals first began nor what their industry was based on prior. As As I said pepper and textiles among other goods was the main export. Before that, their economy was strong in mostly exports of tusks, textiles and slaves(between seigneurs).

kingston277: ECOWAS and the AU should also do their job and protect these interests until the "wars" blow over, then they can serve as economical, philosophical and continental uniters as opposed to political. better the nation-states remain notion-states with an African EU equivalent watching over them than one big english speaking war zone on the verge of break up anyway.

Omarbah: I think we are saying the same thing.

No. Before, you were saying West African nations needed to unite into larger countries as opposed to split into ethnic based countries due to your idea that physically larger states can protect themselves better than physically smaller states. I then told you ECOWAS and AU's job was to protect the interest of the smaller states while they sort themselves out. The size of countries mattered little as long as they had an economical and political joint similar to the EU serving their interests.

Omarbah: We need a strong ECOWAS to protect us from a foreign invasion while we are making this transformation. Also the role that I want ECOWAS to play is that of managing the military, currency and foreign policy. The rest should be left to the "new states". And I am against English being used as a the language.

That would inevitably be the the case if current nation did not split based on ethnic lines. Look at Nigeria now.

Omarbah: Like I said in my previous posts, I am fine with Yoruba being the education language in the West of Nigeria where almost everyone speaks it, the same for Hausa in the North. In east Africa, they already have Swahili so their transition should be quicker. Eventually, the foreign language should stop being the medium of learning on our continent.

Fully agree.

ezeagu: Mansa Musa didn't conquer the Arabs, and neither did the Arabs conquer Mansa Musa. If there was no rebound then I hardly see this as a failure although the money could have obviously been better spent.

Agreed, however it can be argued that it wasn't in Mali's best interest at the time to go on extensive raids and conquests of North Africa, such a thing back then may have been seen as a waste of money just as we view his economical practices now. It also should be mentioned that another African empire called Kanem-Bornu rose from the Sao civilization(500B.C.) in Middle Africa and managed to conquer as far as southern Lybia. And with that, they imported European gun-wielding slaves for use in their armies. If Mali or Songhay had did the same, they would of had to contend with that said empire, thus leading to a similar demise in the number of kingdoms in West Africa.

And can the likes of pleep on this thread stop pedaling around this archaic, long debunked, Western notion of biological race? It contributes nothing to the discussion and wastes valuable time.

Omarbah: It is well known the role of many monarchs played in the slave trade. Actually some have even apologized formally for the role played in the slave trade by allowing it. Here is a link if you want to know more http://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/genetic-quest-leads-african-apology-role-slave-trade-f8C11467842

Yes, we're aware of that.

Omarbah: Yes the slave trade did flourish with the discovery of the Americas, but with the demand came a supply provided in part by Africans that sold their own.

http://www.reunionblackfamily.com/apps/blog/show/11782086-we-did-not-sell-each-other-into-slavery
Still nowhere does it say they sold their own. Their constitution would never allow citizens who were not criminals or indebted to be sold off. The only exception was Kongo and nobody, not even the monarch, was safe from enslavement.

Omarbah: If the Songhai empire had been able to establish its authority firmly, this would not have happened.

Songhai engaged in the trade like everyone else, it was their trade after all.

Omarbah: But instead the states with their weak armies and economies could not stop the slave trade.

Weak armies and economies? Maybe you didn't brush up on history, but in the wake of the collapse of Sudanese powers rose extremely wealthy, powerful, influential and sophisticated empires that dominated West Africa and almost gave the Europeans a run for their money. Some, like Benin, place heavy restrictions on the number of slaves sold to increase production and ceased to become a notable slave trading kingdom since. Dahomey is well known for Agaja, who pretty much nearly cut off trading with the West i an effort to industrialize and commercialize.
More here: http://africaunchained..ca/2013/06/the-west-versus-africas-industrial.html
http://der.org/resources/study-guides/blooms-of-banjeli-study-guide.pdf

Omarbah: The EU and NATO are two different organizations, the latter is a kind of joint command for western countries including North America. The EU has the ambition of becoming a stronger political entity to compete with North America and China.

NATO is precisly what I'm stating, it is one big organization designed to protect the interest of Western nations without the need for unionizing these nations politically. The EU already accomplished being a strong political entity without the need to unite all European nations aligned with it. Europe moved past unionizing all together ages ago.

Omarbah: The potential for chaos is just too high to have the current states break along ethnic lines and then reunite. The wars that will ensue will be an excuse for the US and France to invade us once again in the name of " stopping Africans from killing each other" ( believe me, westerners will buy this BS) and to "protect their interests". In that case we will have another "Berlin conference" where the new states will be defined by the new invaders. The best way is to for ECOWAS to have an army and political capital to enforce peace and security if necessary then new states could be "added" to the unions based on the ethnic lines if necessary.

Our forefathers did i before and it worked successfully. not to mention, this is being discussed heavily even among political journalists and analysts. All Africa needs is another Kwame Nkrumah, Gaddafi, or Sankara to be on the look out for crooks running around with excuses like "stopping Africans from killing each other" until the wars blow over, if there even are any. ECOWAS and the AU should also do their job and protect these interests until the "wars" blow over, then they can serve as economical, philosophical and continental uniters as opposed to political, better the nation-states remain notion-states with an African EU equivalent watching over them than one big english speaking war zone on the verge of break up anyway.

Omarbah: Can you imagine how many wars can break out as a result of this balkanization? How many small countries would be fighting for land that they claim is theirs?
West Africa has seen her best days during the Ghana and Mali empire.

Some historians would beg to differ; extend those "best days" to the 19th century.

Omarbah: Unfortunately, due to a lack of transportation means those empires could not develop strong armies to establish order throughout the area they ruled to break any rebellion.

Oddly enough, the biggest threat ended up being the Moroccans. Plus I'm sure the camel caravans could've done good in areas the wheel would get stuck.

Omarbah: But those empires were multi ethnic.
After the fall of the Songhai empire that was attempting to do the same as the two previous ones, we ended up with smaller states and that's when the slave trade truly flourished.

According to a book I'm reading, the slave trade flourished thanks to Columbus. If the Euros didn't sail there and see the demand for slaves, the trade would've died off quicker.

Omarbah: West Africa became a land where any group of thugs could organize their slave trading company and sell their own for low quality goods that also undermine our small industries. That culture still persist to this day. Every now and then, you see a group of low life criminals take possession of guns and wreak havoc.

I wasn't aware they sold their own. Do provide sources please. As for the "thugs" thing. I'm not sure how maintain a century long industry is thuggery especially when Africans do it which your comment seems to imply. The only crime of the elites was the magnitude they sold them off. Some even placed restrictions and built up plantations to avoid selling slaves that could be used for local production.

Omarbah: Secondly, we live in an age where even European nation states are finding ways to unite because they believe their nation states can no longer protect them against competition from China or North America. Why would we instead moving in the same direction, go in the opposite?

The Europeans use a thing called the EU(NATO and UN by extension), they have no need to unite politically anymore because they have organizations like the mentioned ones and have moved past that outdated stage. Ever wonder why Scotland is leaving the UK?

Omarbah: If the current states are to broken along ethnic boundaries, we would our children and grand children great good only if we make our entire region one federal republic. Each group could have their small state but within one large ECOWAS.

Better to start small and break up before uniting again. It allows for build up and focus on particular ethnic groups and histories which in turn allows for proper address of issues. Its important to isolate the cancer and destroy it, not cover it up in one big dust bin of a country that still can't live up to the glory of Oyo, Benin or Asante.

Don't think it was widespread in those days. It may have even have been outlawed in some pre-colonial states at the time. Many ethnic groups such as the Yoruba valued the birth of twins greatly.

A fellow NLer put together a list on how to identify self-haters, especially in regards to historical discussions:

RandomAfricanAm: @kingston277
Thumbs up to you. That said you are going to run into the same problems with the self haters over and over. Typical broad issues are...
1. The attempt of translating African ideas/institutions into incompatible European intellectual containers.
2. A poor(lopsided) grasp of the general history of Humans and their activity through time.
3. A poor ability to process historical knowledge of Human activity through time to make insightful descriptions of todays society.
4. Misguided rationalizations exacerbated by issues #1-3 above.
5. Dogged stubbornness brought on by the idea that "I didn't come to this conclusion by an emotional fit, I came to a rational well thought-out conclusion". This being done under the more fundamental issue noted in #4
6. A poor "spiritual/emotional" relationship with the topic under discussion brought on by personal observation(school/real world) of that topic. While the rationalization serves as justification for the stated position; the spiritual relationship mediates which rationalization was stated in the first place.

RandomAfricanAm: Two major vectors of foreign cultural attack...

1. Media(music, movies, TV shows, websites, sports)
2. Returnees from the Diaspora(People associate the status of these people not merely with application of education; but also with hairstyles, speech, clothing, etc)
**I should also add the vestiges of the old colonial education system that's still in place**

Note: number 2 is the vector I have the most issue with concerning these self hating people. The most ironic display being the ones who complain about "backward superstitious people" who then basically attempt to devour other peoples culture in a bid to be like (insert perceived quality here). what makes that ironic is they are employing the same logic as a person killing a lion and devouring it's flesh in a bid to be like (insert perceived quality here). It's the same line of logic except concerning a different entity.

Note 2: Colonization provides the gapping hole for those cultural mores to take a stronger hold then they normally would otherwise. The self haters also seem to believe that the fact that the colonial period(that only lasted 50ish years ...spain was occupied for 800) occurred is a rationalization for their cultural "betrayal".

RandomAfricanAm: That sh*t is sad man. sad
The worse part is that they feel like they are being "realistic" "responsible" "progressive" or my personal favorite "civilized"(even though they completely miss the keyword *civil*) Automation & mechanization does not equal civilization; Automized & mechanized barbarians are still practicing barbarism. Simply put mechanized barbarism is still barbarism.

Neutral Example: When the tent dwelling, spear chucking, horse riding Mongolians sacked and overran china they were barbarians being barbarous. When the mansion/castle dwelling, rifle/cannon shooting, galleon/wagon riding Europeans sacked and overran china they were also barbarians being barbarous.

Self haters conveniently skip that and other episodes in world history nor do they dare say they the fact that china was overrun by a pack of tent dwellers on horse back means that they should stop city planning, administrative practices, civil engineering projects, etc. and accept the superior tent dwelling "civilization" that was obviously justified by chinas round defeat and occupation by Mongolians. Nor do they say that the Japanese should give up their Shinto tree, rock, etc spirits and become "civilized"(or in self hater language "industrialized", "mechanized", & "automized" ...which is what they really mean when they say "civilized"wink

As concerns my ideas surrounding African spirituality I suggest you checkout my reply on the second page of...
https://www.nairaland.com/1554976/whats-literal-translation-north-south/1


As I like to say...
1. Freedom is a necessity but not enough. Choices are predicated on what you know at the time of calculating a decision. If I control what you know I control the range of your possible choices.
2. Knowledge is a necessity but not enough. Knowledge derives it's usefulness from being processed when calculating a decision. The smaller the range of process you are capable of carrying out the less you can do with what you know.
3. Processing(intelligence) is a necessity but not enough. There are a series of Processes done in executing a plan. If you have no plan your interests are subject to those who do have a plan. Be that in using your ability to process knowledge to further their plans(not yours) or simply by your interests being displaced in the execution of their plans.
4. Plans are a necessity but not enough. Plans are simply a means to accomplishing a goal. If you have no goals in life your interests are subject to those who do have a goal. Be that in using your ability to plan and/or process knowledge to further their goals(not yours) or simply by your interests being displaced in the execution of their goals.
5. There are more but I can successfully reply without stating the rest


While I commend the Self haters for wanting better for themselves and Africa as a whole.

I question...
1.The range of knowledge they have at there disposal when coming to their stated positions
2.The range of processes they were able to employ on that knowledge.(Which led to their inability to make historically consistent positions)
3.The extent to which their self hate surrounding colonization impedes absorption, development, & execution of new knowledge and processes.

macof: Africa has AU and Ecowas but they not really doing anything, personally I think economy, military and currency should be shared all over Ecowas member states leaving other things like resource control, laws and governance etc. to it's nation...nations drawn on ethnic lines of course

This is what EU is even doing as it is

I think Qaddafi proposed something like this for Africa before he got ousted.

Omarbah: it has to do with the severe inferiority complex that we have developed since slavery and colonialism.

Yes. Its terrible.

Omarbah: Mind you, even the descendants of slaves that came back to Sierra Leone, Liberia or even the ones that used to live in Saros district in Lagos hated the indigenous Africans and looked down upon them. They were convinced that no civilization ever came out of Africa.

Of course they would, they were sold off and were bitter when they came back. Not to mention the excessive brainwashing by the whites.

Omarbah: To this day, most black people in the West think that we walk around half naked and live in trees. Which is bizarre to me because how would they explain the fact that we can do math, physics and speak English properly if we lived in trees.
To this day even most Africans think such things.
Btw, what

[quote author=Omarbah]Intellectuals like Henry Rawlingson Carr who were among the most educated Africans of his time and had a rivalry with Herbert Macaulay believed that the best way for Africans to evolve was going through the British. And he was not the only one that thought so. It goes to tell you how much we have willingly alienated our own culture. Imagine if people like him had written books in Yoruba using the Latin scripts if necessary, how many people would have gotten out of ignorance at the time? But they couldn't do it because their mind was thinking in that direction.

I made a thread about how to go about evolving without forsaking culture. It was written by a westerner who was able to see through this globalization and brainwashing non-sense. Very well written.

Omarbah: So I would tell you my friend, that we first need to love our own culture and realize that true progress is in improving it not washing ourselves of it to embrace something else. There is no respect in that. Why do you think no matter what a black American does , he still can't get respect? "Even if you in a Benz , you are still a nigga" Kanye West.

One of the ways to love our culture is to find out more about it and its history. Look across the boards and notice that despite most members on here being Nigerian, they seem to have a shallow, almost 1940s understanding of the culture of their country and forefathers. In short, their view of Africa is very eurocentric. More archaeology and digging needs to be done to not only set and example, but clear up myths about our past and hopefully discover ways to evolve via our forefathers. As others have told me, some "traditional" practices and values may be corrupted, and ancient institutions that served the people are now either defunct or corrupted and twisted beyond recognition. More digging as well as social changes can help send Africa in the right direction.

It started around the time of colonialism when negative foreign ideals and mismanagement brought down the great civilizations that once stool more centuries. African history in all its glory.

kingston277: http://historum.com/middle-eastern-african-history/70114-african-culture-9.html
https://www.nairaland.com/1796503/traditional-african-boat-designs
http://historum.com/middle-eastern-african-history/58840-diversity-early-african-architecture-ruins-thread.html
https://www.nairaland.com/1249503/interesting-images-precolonial-early-colonial
https://www.nairaland.com/582176/benin-art-architecture/
Edo Kingdom(Nigeria)
https://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/ya51284efa.jpg
https://www.manswersonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/sungboeredo1.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sungbo%27s_Eredo
Asante Empire(Ghana)
https://i.imgur.com/QpTDdgx.png?1
https://i.imgur.com/coycsF8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ERIeZwv.png?2
Kongo
[img]http://hitchcock.itc.virginia.edu/SlaveTrade/collection/large/VILE-180.JPG[/img]
https://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg5zbsqq1K1qgfbgio1_r1_1280.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gKuKI2T.jpg?2
Nsibidi(Igbo writing system)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nsibidi
More...
https://www.nairaland.com/189030/african-script
Production
http://der.org/resources/study-guides/blooms-of-banjeli-study-guide.pdf
[img]https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/1554585_african-productivity_jpeg73ad16662aab95c5e70965fc917f4ece[/img]
Bathrooms
https://i.imgur.com/yTkf0BO.jpg?1
Science and Tech
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science_and_technology_in_Africa
"Human sacrifice" was actually capital punishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Benin_Expedition_of_1897
Human rights concepts
http://www.kentlaw.edu/faculty/bbrown/classes/HumanRightsSP10/CourseDocs/9BanjulCharterandtheAfricanCulturalFingerprint.pdf
http://eccentricyoruba./
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/nigeria/precolwon.html
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/nigeria/colonwom.html

I know its alot of links but its important for you to know. Plus the above is just West Africa/Central alone!

So, Op. A better question would be, why have we fallen so far from the civilization we developed and chosen to worship foreign peoples rather than turn to the people who spent the last millenia taming the African landscapes and building advanced civilizations? And is there a way to recreate this long lost advancement techniques?

America needs to learn how to build great civilizations like this
www.nairaland.com/attachments/1423991_Benin_City__ca__1600_jpgc3a4c3a51515a5eed646b6a21b7ba1d0

While Nigeria needs to learn to respect its citizens.

Whooo...another religious bias thread. Fasinating.

I quote info from my text book, you insult me, I tried to clarify, you refuse to acknowledge, so I call it a day.

Ciao.

chulla12: A pig dressed with lipstick and glass slippers is still a pig.

Please, I'm not even Nigerian, I'm just here to study culture and history. Why would I have beef with any particular ethnic group of a country I'm not even from? Are you sane, or do you just bark left and right?

See real civilization! What do you think fellow op?
www.nairaland.com/attachments/1423991_Benin_City__ca__1600_jpgc3a4c3a51515a5eed646b6a21b7ba1d0

Ways to help you out of your self-hatred and how to identify those in self-hatred as well.
https://www.nairaland.com/1179342/blacks-educated-feel-inferior-dr
And...

RandomAfricanAm: @kingston277
Thumbs up to you. That said you are going to run into the same problems with the self haters over and over. Typical broad issues are...
1. The attempt of translating African ideas/institutions into incompatible European intellectual containers.
2. A poor(lopsided) grasp of the general history of Humans and their activity through time.
3. A poor ability to process historical knowledge of Human activity through time to make insightful descriptions of todays society.
4. Misguided rationalizations exacerbated by issues #1-3 above.
5. Dogged stubbornness brought on by the idea that "I didn't come to this conclusion by an emotional fit, I came to a rational well thought-out conclusion". This being done under the more fundamental issue noted in #4
6. A poor "spiritual/emotional" relationship with the topic under discussion brought on by personal observation(school/real world) of that topic. While the rationalization serves as justification for the stated position; the spiritual relationship mediates which rationalization was stated in the first place.

RandomAfricanAm: Two major vectors of foreign cultural attack...

1. Media(music, movies, TV shows, websites, sports)
2. Returnees from the Diaspora(People associate the status of these people not merely with application of education; but also with hairstyles, speech, clothing, etc)
**I should also add the vestiges of the old colonial education system that's still in place**

Note: number 2 is the vector I have the most issue with concerning these self hating people. The most ironic display being the ones who complain about "backward superstitious people" who then basically attempt to devour other peoples culture in a bid to be like (insert perceived quality here). what makes that ironic is they are employing the same logic as a person killing a lion and devouring it's flesh in a bid to be like (insert perceived quality here). It's the same line of logic except concerning a different entity.

Note 2: Colonization provides the gapping hole for those cultural mores to take a stronger hold then they normally would otherwise. The self haters also seem to believe that the fact that the colonial period(that only lasted 50ish years ...spain was occupied for 800) occurred is a rationalization for their cultural "betrayal".

RandomAfricanAm: That sh*t is sad man. sad
The worse part is that they feel like they are being "realistic" "responsible" "progressive" or my personal favorite "civilized"(even though they completely miss the keyword *civil*) Automation & mechanization does not equal civilization; Automized & mechanized barbarians are still practicing barbarism. Simply put mechanized barbarism is still barbarism.

Neutral Example: When the tent dwelling, spear chucking, horse riding Mongolians sacked and overran china they were barbarians being barbarous. When the mansion/castle dwelling, rifle/cannon shooting, galleon/wagon riding Europeans sacked and overran china they were also barbarians being barbarous.

Self haters conveniently skip that and other episodes in world history nor do they dare say they the fact that china was overrun by a pack of tent dwellers on horse back means that they should stop city planning, administrative practices, civil engineering projects, etc. and accept the superior tent dwelling "civilization" that was obviously justified by chinas round defeat and occupation by Mongolians. Nor do they say that the Japanese should give up their Shinto tree, rock, etc spirits and become "civilized"(or in self hater language "industrialized", "mechanized", & "automized" ...which is what they really mean when they say "civilized"wink

As concerns my ideas surrounding African spirituality I suggest you checkout my reply on the second page of...
https://www.nairaland.com/1554976/whats-literal-translation-north-south/1


As I like to say...
1. Freedom is a necessity but not enough. Choices are predicated on what you know at the time of calculating a decision. If I control what you know I control the range of your possible choices.
2. Knowledge is a necessity but not enough. Knowledge derives it's usefulness from being processed when calculating a decision. The smaller the range of process you are capable of carrying out the less you can do with what you know.
3. Processing(intelligence) is a necessity but not enough. There are a series of Processes done in executing a plan. If you have no plan your interests are subject to those who do have a plan. Be that in using your ability to process knowledge to further their plans(not yours) or simply by your interests being displaced in the execution of their plans.
4. Plans are a necessity but not enough. Plans are simply a means to accomplishing a goal. If you have no goals in life your interests are subject to those who do have a goal. Be that in using your ability to plan and/or process knowledge to further their goals(not yours) or simply by your interests being displaced in the execution of their goals.
5. There are more but I can successfully reply without stating the rest


While I commend the Self haters for wanting better for themselves and Africa as a whole.

I question...
1.The range of knowledge they have at there disposal when coming to their stated positions
2.The range of processes they were able to employ on that knowledge.(Which led to their inability to make historically consistent positions)
3.The extent to which their self hate surrounding colonization impedes absorption, development, & execution of new knowledge and processes.

Maybe you're new here, and you missed all the African history threads made here(and across the internet) but, dude, you're living in the 1930s, please get caught up so you don't embarrass yoursrlf.
https://www.nairaland.com/1796503/traditional-african-boat-designs
http://historum.com/middle-eastern-african-history/58840-diversity-early-african-architecture-ruins-thread.html
https://www.nairaland.com/1249503/interesting-images-precolonial-early-colonial
https://www.nairaland.com/582176/benin-art-architecture/
Edo Kingdom(Nigeria)
https://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/ya51284efa.jpg
https://www.manswersonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/sungboeredo1.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sungbo%27s_Eredo
Asante Empire(Ghana)
https://i.imgur.com/QpTDdgx.png?1
https://i.imgur.com/coycsF8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ERIeZwv.png?2
Kongo
[img]http://hitchcock.itc.virginia.edu/SlaveTrade/collection/large/VILE-180.JPG[/img]
https://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg5zbsqq1K1qgfbgio1_r1_1280.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gKuKI2T.jpg?2
Nsibidi(Igbo writing system)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nsibidi
More...
https://www.nairaland.com/189030/african-script
Production
http://der.org/resources/study-guides/blooms-of-banjeli-study-guide.pdf
[img]https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/1554585_african-productivity_jpeg73ad16662aab95c5e70965fc917f4ece[/img]
Bathrooms
https://i.imgur.com/yTkf0BO.jpg?1
Science and Tech
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science_and_technology_in_Africa
"Human sacrifice" was actually capital punishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Benin_Expedition_of_1897
Human rights concepts
http://www.kentlaw.edu/faculty/bbrown/classes/HumanRightsSP10/CourseDocs/9BanjulCharterandtheAfricanCulturalFingerprint.pdf
http://eccentricyoruba./
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/nigeria/precolwon.html
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/nigeria/colonwom.html

I know its alot of links but its important for you to know. Plus the above is just West Africa/Cental alone!

Naturally they would refer to the superior culture of their advanced ancestors as "uncivilized"and "fetish". And backwards we continue to go.

Another desperate anti-pagan. smh.

chulla12: Formed "some" civilizations, although not to the scale of other groups, huh?

Well... I guess it was about time we started stratifying African groups from most civilized to most barbaric. If you can't beat the rest of the racially obsessed world, join them.

....And this is why I find some of this history/empire bullsh*t overrated and dumb.

But sir/ms, didn't I say...

and they were still pretty advanced.

PAGAN9JA: If they are living in dark age what are we living in?

Boko haram age? Atleast they dont have to worry about religious terrorist destroying dia homes and killing dia families and kidnapping dia girls.

Its sad that some people still continue to stick their nose up at others amidst their own self induced suffering.

Ihuomadinihu: .
They had no civilization too?

Where did you read that?

Ihuomadinihu: I don't understand. Igbos did not build cities?

To the best of my knowledge, not to the scale of other ethic groups. They had enough(towns) to form some civilizations though, and they were still pretty advanced.

Ihuomadinihu: Which ethnic group is this?

Akan, but Nigeria had similar architecture could have even seen among the igbo who didn't build cities.

gbosaa: If it happened over 50 years ago when there was little education and civilisation,it sure can happen again now..Enugu is detribalised.Go to Owerri road Asata,richard street behind ogui rd,oba street in ogui..Hausas and fulanis have been living there for more than 40years and there are all happy.

Says the Nigerian living in a dust bin of a "civilization". I'm sure your "civilized" country can now make things like this thanks to the whites.
https://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/ya51284efa.jpg

The day Nigeria went backwards...

Ihuomadinihu: This is a picture of Igbo brides in G.T Basden's Among the Ibos.
Yes,morallys were high in those days and even the Egyptians did not emphasize on three piece suits. I don't know the agenda of this thread but it will interest you to know that all Nigerian tribes were naked at one point. Some tribes in Africa still prefer to maintain their adamic form. 1921 is recent,western civilization arrived quite late to igbos,remember? Besides,scanty clothes in Africa does not mean barbarism,barbarism is when a woman decides to go naked in the name of fashion in this 21st century.

Maybe they were unclad 12,000 year ago but times have change since then when the first advanced civilizations formed in Nigeria with the Nok 3000 years ago. That and later on people dressed like this:
https://i.imgur.com/QpTDdgx.png?1
And built like this
https://i.imgur.com/coycsF8.jpg

oladimejiX: Well i said recent because of how developed other parts of the world was at that time

And other parts of Africa as well.

1shortblackboy: Humility and respect comes from d heart. And not by outward show and gestures. Personally, I do not kneel or prostrate for no man

And I wont say "hello" to nor hug nor shake hands with no person since "Humility and respect comes from d heart. And not by outward show and gestures."

eph12: Culture? Tell me where has our culture and beliefs taken us to? Idgaf about any culture and please this is my opinion.

Go read the Oyo, Ife Kingdoms and weep at your current, sorry state.

perry2020: Civilization has swept it under the carpet.

Then technically it should've happened millennia ago.

tonychristopher: THESE ARE CENTURIES OLD STORIES DOCUMENTED BY A GREAT IGBO SON...THESE ARE OF OF THE VERY MANY REASONS I KEEP THANING GOD FOR CREATING ME AN IGBO MAN


HATERS DIE
LOVERS LIVE

This is amazing. Always wondered why there were so few first hand African accounts of those times(i'm sure nsibidi records might help us out aswell if they physically survived the test of time). I wonder if Benin, Oyo or any other urbanized kingdom has honest first hand accounts like this.