₦airaland Forum

hahn:
Lol. Yeah, no matter how you look at it that IS primitive. Thatch castles with bamboo? Come on bro.

https://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2009/12/limberhust_main_ext1.gif
Boy the Whiteman must be a caveman by your logic.
https://www.reportajes-jmserrano.com/china/2.jpg
The Chinese really need some civilizing.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/66/b2/dd/66b2ddc61e3fee3c255ee0b1d54a9501.jpg
Even the Arabs take pride in their "semi-primitiveness".

I bet you don't even know the definition of the word but yet you keep throwing it around at anything that isn't made by whites, no matter how rudimentary it is.

hahn:
So, fully clothed white women landed on African soil and met with Queens who left their breats bare for the whole world to see and you mean to tell me that whites taught us how to walk around half nude? Plssssss

Oh, you mean the same white women who walk around shirtless in Europe and NA?
http://www.girlsaskguys.com/sexual-health/q681599-why-european-women-okay-with-being-naked-or
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topfreedom_in_Canada
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_the_Nipple_%28campaign%29
So after a century of indoctrinating your gullible grandparents into believing the crap you just regurgitated on female chests. These same white women are now fighting for topfreedom and normalization of female chests. And you're still stuck in your old ways of thinking that the rest of the world left behind when doctors announced that there are minimal if almost nonexistent differences between male and female chests beyond size.

hahn:
Stop being on the defence for once and accept the fact that we ARE primitive. There's nothing wrong with that. Even europeans at one time in history were just as or even more crude. The fact is, without accepting one's fault it will be overtly impossible to improve.

Instead of trying to defend our errors let's face them and work towards improving on ourselves. If we can imitate wearing of suits and ties or using technology then I do believe it is not out of sanity to also imitate what will help us grow as a people.

Why would I agree that a people who built the world's largest earthwork, produced the worlds highest grade steel until the 19th century, built submarines out of canoes, has had numerous architecture as runner up on Unesco's world wonders, we're one of the first to practise ironworking, developed scripts, put together some of the world's most sophisticated irrigation, had some of the wealthiest empires the world has ever seen, and have sailed as far as China, etc as primitive?

I fear the Nigerian education system is worse than I thought if you find it okay to show such apathy for human achievements on the grounds of skin colour.
If that's how you reason Then you have no grounds to speak on African history. There is a reason the general world historian community has written several works debunking the very words you typed and have spent half a century successfully debating the likes of you.

I read the guys blog, and in a pdf he states he is modifying the script because the original "isn't true writing" and is attempting to "modernize" it by essentially changing it and adopting foreign scripts rules. Now of course we know this is bogus and that Nsibidi is a 100% complete script, but I would love to know just how much he is modifying it.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Ikpe_nsibidi.jpg/800px-Ikpe_nsibidi.jpg
The above is a Nsibidi transcript of an Ikpe court case from the 19th-early 20th century. I really hope those who learn this modern Nsibidi and agaku are able to fully read the above. I fear the person putting this project together doesn't know enough about how the original Nsibidi system works to attempt this feat successfully.

Ihuomadinihu:
How does my profile give you any information about me?
Anyway,all women were topless and braless before they learnt how to cultivate cotton and weave cloth. Just wanted to correct that impression.

And they were brakes after as well. Wasn't needed until insane whitemen gained an interest in chests.

VickyRotex:
Western Civilization. We both know it brought about urban development and social stratification.

Errr...Im pretty sure these two existed back then according to my history books.

Radoillo:
I find it funny that people equate covering the female breasts with being civilised.

Yes, cracks me up.

VickyRotex:
Oh well, that happens to be one of the numerous disadvantages of civilization

Interesting they never had that problem back then in the igbo civilizations. Virtually no crime there.

Gamesmart:
This confirms that Ijaw women did not use to wear upper clothes until the white man came.

Thank God for the white man. Imagine we had to watch Patience Jonathan topless.

Nigeria's population would probably have halved from 170m as many would just commit suicide.

Yes, thank God for the barbarians from the West.

samsard:
Have you ever seen me reading history books written by the so called European bourgeiose?

Nobody has because it's clear you don't read.

hahn:
Seriously dude, you call THAT civilisation? That's more like ignorance. Like someone said, they were supposed to be the elites of their society. Imagine what the ordinary man looked like. And just take a look at the house behind him, that's supposed to be his castle!

A man married 8 wives and left their boobs to hang out and you call that morality? Are you even aware that some elites such as Nana of Koko sold of his own people to slavery?

There was no morality bro, more like an excess of ignorance

I don't know why the likes of you are allowed to flaunt your ignorance on these boards. I guess it's just the sad state of education in Nigeria. The more educated people here would like to know how this constitutes "semi-primitiveness"?
[img]http://1.bp..com/_QVW98iGMXHI/Sx3dkFLN6rI/AAAAAAAAJws/VRNIvtM91No/s640/storeyhouses.jpg[/img]

Let's look at the ordinary man too.
https://38.media.tumblr.com/e85ad66c0bc153b5976ea519514c1feb/tumblr_nc8y3q0Ib01qjh37to1_1280.jpg
Not the grandest in Nigeria at the time. But no sane man educated on history would call that "semi-primitive" with a serious intent.

And while you're at it, elaborate on why women's chests are "immoral" and where you acquired that insane troll logic from. Couldn't be your beloved whiteman could it?

icnsystem:
The definations and degrees of civilization vary according to perception,cultural values and environment.What we call western civilization and admire are just ways of life in their clime and it should not be adopted as parameters to conclude that Africans are backward.No no no..!it's not true.That is one fallacy Africans should reject outrightly.
The pictures here are just too perfect becuase they represent the natural way of life of these people back then,when practically the way of life was very close to nature,when farming was 100% organic and there were no chemical in foods which causes cancer and other diseases that are prevalent today.
Further more,Anthropologist and other reseachers in the fields of humanity have even come to conclusion that people of this time has higher quality of life than we the so called civilized people..Hence, these pictures are just too perfect and should be celebrated because they are reflection of our heritage,culture and civilazion as people who are very very very close to nature.
Therefore,King Jaja of Opobo and his wives in these pictures are symbol of our civilization.There is absolutely nothing wrong with this picture.

True, but tbh, they were no more "closer to nature" than other civilizations of the time, who in turn were compared to today as you said. They were just as advanced as China, Egypt or Aztec and even commenced environmental pollution that's ongoing today from excessive deforestation. Read up on the Oyo empire because they were notorious.

Kanoro:
Most Sub-Saharan Africans acquired their knowledge of gunpowder from Europeans. It was the North Africans who gained it from Arabs

Kanem-Bornu, a central African empire that at its height actually stretched into the Libyan fezzan, is known for importing slaves from Europe and elsewhere who had knowledge of gunpowder and employed them as gun infantry in their armies. And they practised this prior to the age of exploration. What puzzles me is whether Bornu learned gunpowder from these slaves and adopted the technology for themselves? If so, why didn't the technology spread to other regions?

Kanoro:
Thank you very much. Very useful information! I'd be curious to know if they utilized cast iron technology for firearms and to what extent. I'd also be curious to know why they didn't produce their own weapons in mass so that they didn't rely on imports.

PhysicsQED:
I have never read anything about any of the African groups that made guns using cast iron to do so, though I would be happy to find an example to the contrary. The Ashanti manufactured some of their own guns, but their method did not use cast iron and they could buy better quality guns from Europeans so they kept relying on imports. Benin started manufacturing guns as well, but I have not read anything about Benin utilizing cast iron. I am also unsure as to whether the guns Benin made were the majority of the guns the kingdom had or whether more guns were imported than manufactured. I will look into that eventually and see if I can find an answer.

I also read that Samory Touré's kingdom attempted to manufacture their own guns as well, but once again I've never read anything about cast iron technology in connection with that, and I know that the guns his state used were mostly imports of European origin.

Sources cited by Wikipedia and Unesco state that Iron working dates back up to 4000(?) years near the Niger river, making the origins of African working contemporary with other early iron working areas of the world. Wikipedia notes however, that the methods used to carbon date the substances have been criticized by a small group of colleagues. So it's a bit of a grey area.
I do for the time being think that the finds should be taken into consideration, especially in the event of more reliable evidence popping up to support it.

bushdoc9919:
It is not Chinese....it isn't even similar to Chinese Script..

Be happy that at least one Nigerian tribe is developing its indigenous writing system...and modernizing it...the same way the Japanese did it decades ago.

And Nsidibi existed long before the colonial period.

The southeast isn't the only part of Nigeria or Africa for that matter with its own indigenous writing system. https://www.nairaland.com/189030/african-script

timpaker:
All I see is Chinese

All I see is someone who has never picked up a history book since primary school.

PAPAAFRICA:
pretty sure this is from precolonial ghana. It even says precolonial ghana in the url for the image.

This was an example.

robosky02:
yes you read correctly

the first story building in nigeria built by the missionary Townsend
in 1842

by the way what you are quoting (Manhyian palace) is in Ghana not nigeria and it came much later in 1925.

It (The Manhyia Palace) served as the residence of Otumfuo Prempeh I and Otumfuo Sir Osei Agyeman Prempeh II, K.B.E. the 13th and 14th Kings of the Asante Kimgdom. The building was put up by the British Government for Otumfuo Prempeh I in 1925 who returned from exile in the Seychelles Islands in 1924, to replace the old Asantehene’s Palace at Adum which was destroyed during the Yaa Asantewaa war. The war was fought between the British and the Asantes because of the refusal of the then Asantehene to offer the Golden stool to the then governor of the Gold Coast, as demanded by the governor.

get your fact right thanks

Says the person who said Europeans built the first story building. I asked if you meant something else because I was showing that story buildings were a commonality in Africa which of course includes Nigeria.

Btw, is this where you got that quote from? http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/visiting-the-first-storey-building-in-nigeria/146113/

"Their contribution to civiization in Nigeria"
"established the first primary school"
"Also in this safe are the earliest form of currency used by the missionaries and slave masters such as the cowries, penny, shillings and Kobe."

Rofl. Seems legit.

Nigeria's/Africa's past was where its at.
https://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s417/KingMichael777/precolonialghana50_zps00ed3513.png

PhysicsQED:
The Archaeology of Africa: Food, Metals and Towns

I think it might've been this one I had read.

PhysicsQED:
Your post was interesting and you made some good points, but just one correction: the Bini were not huge players in the transatlantic slave trade and the transatlantic slave trade was of limited importance to the precolonial economy of the Bini. In fact in precolonial times, the Bini were not even engaged in the transatlantic slave trade for most of their history. I have seen people just assume that the Bini had some sort of major slave trading state without checking if this is true or not on multiple occasions, and unfortunately, the reason for the assumption (without doing research) pretty much every time is because of preexisting stereotypes about precolonial African history.

A good question would be why the Bini had little need for participation in the slave trade. And why other states didn't follow suit.
I've heard that agriculture in peppers/spices is what turned them away from the slave trade but I can't verify if that is the definitive reason.

robosky02:
The first-ever storey building in Nigeria in 1842. Badagry
Rev. Henry Townsend laid the foundation of but the building was completed in 1845 by Rev. C.A Gollmer.

I hope I read this wrong.
https://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s417/KingMichael777/precolonialghana50_zps00ed3513.png

.

That is not a new writing system. This is a modification of Nsibidi which is an ancient script of the southeast:
https://www.nairaland.com/189030/african-script
https://www.nairaland.com/973985/nsibiri-pre-colonial-writing-south-eastern
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nsibidi

Even the blog you got those posts and pictures from states this.

Nigeria has seen better days:
www.nairaland.com/attachments/1423991_Benin_City__ca__1600_jpgc3a4c3a51515a5eed646b6a21b7ba1d0

wildikeman:
None of the link u provided has opened o.

Uh are you on a flip phone or something? It opened just fine on both my computer and tablet(can anybody else test it?).

wildikeman:
Now its impossible to use wood or canoe to convert it into a submarine. Do you know what it is? An underwater technology o.

Do you even know what a submarine is, or its history, or even how the material a submarines is made out of connects with the fact that its "underwater technology o."? the oldest submarines were made out of wood. Africans were experts in boat and canoe making. Its been all but confirmed they made submarines by colonial officials themselves. Get on another machine and read the link.

wildikeman:
Now as for the voting thing I stand to be corrected. Yes perhaps some tribes did have election amongst its people. But the sacrifice own is so true. People were being sacrificed even up to today. Here is a link www.executedtoday.com/2011/06/28/1899-ologbosere-benin-empire/...we can't gloat over such. This are facts its even going on till today!

Maybe you have missed the part about colonialism and cultural corruption. The info in the capital punishment link I provided is not only common knowledge across the internet, but the book featured is written by an anthropologist and reviewed by people who studied the culture. Even the people themselves state that pre-colonial "sacrifice" was only limited to outcasts/criminals, not innocent citizens.

RandomAfricanAm:
Yall know I bring that good good... and this time it's on wheels

Funeral, Angola, 1786

I was going to make note earlier that that picture looks like further proof of indigenous origin of the wheel. Not only is the casket all-African in design, but the wheels do not have spokes or intricate designs, typical of European wheels at that time. The wheels used see to be hacked out from tree trunks and had holes punched in them, typical of more ancient wheels elsewhere. Either the Kongolese saw Europeans using a circle with and axel and decided to replicate it as best they could or its of a different design because its of different origin all together.

Blankstare:
To the op. African's were in their hut living communaly and hampered by traditional hierarchies not to enquire about what lay ahead.

Yeah. You're right.
https://medias.photodeck.com/60d9c4ca-3a47-11e0-ab67-5bb773e3fd2a/000863_xlarge.jpg

totima:
Wow! I can't believe that most of my points flew just right past you.

I give up.

They're not worth his consideration. Half are made up anyway.

totima:
Well we are comparing historical monuments and nothing more. Africans also tend to differentiate among cultures and pit some African cultures and achievements more superior than others.

If you agree that Ethiopian monuments are objectively grander than, say, Efik or Fang Monuments, then I can do the same by objectively comparing to those of other races.

No hard feelings.

I don't see how the coliseum is superior, its still barbary.

Angelou:
the europeans were persistent in their conquest, but africans were not persistent in their resistance

Why were they so eager to buy guns/artillery to supplement their military that they would go to such lengths as slave trading?

Fulaman198:
he is validating the fact that the Fulanis did indeed look down on whites, but you are too ashamed to admit it because in your mind it's hard for you to fathom a black group of people not seeing themselves as inferior to whites.

The Zulu reportedly looked down on whites as well. But he won't accept it.

totima:
A lot of the Captain "save Africa's Image" guys are swimming in irrelevances.

For all of Africa's mighty history...we came down all too quick under the will of the Europeas and remain their bootlickers till today.

If we came down quick, we would've been conquered in the 1400s not hundreds of year later. What took these Europeans so bloody long?

totima:
That the acclaimed Bini Empire fell in just 1 day under minimal British manpower (worse - I heard they used lower ranked African footsoldiers to fight) is very telling.

1 day of conquer vs. hundreds of years of kicking European's rear.

totima:
Even the so-called Zulu's are overhyped. The ratio of Zulu to British soldiers was very high and with higher casualties on the Zulu end but I guess they did well enough by African standards. Still lost woefully at the end though.

I read that this was a tatical mistake on SHaka's sons part. He was ordered to take the war to the Europeans settlements but refused.

totima:
A very weak race for all that we tout!

Only if you believe that nonsense you spout.

totima:
Our biggest saving grace in the hotter climates of Africa is Malaria and heat. Thank God for mother nature!

Thank God for African medicine which helps treat malaria. If only the Europeans had it, they could've taken Africa sooner.

ibrokola:
The fact was that these societies had civilizations. There was the Arabian Civilization, Egyptian Civilization, Greek Civilization, European Civilization/ Industrial Evolution. These were time when these societies prided themselves on education and made it compulsory thus broadening their horizons. Unfortunately, Africa did not have these eras and so did not develop (partly because it was too comfortable as we had all the natural resources needed for basic survival.) As with us humans, if we do not feel the need for something, we do not strive to satisfy such need!

This is confusing.

kingston277: http://historum.com/middle-eastern-african-history/70114-african-culture-9.html
https://www.nairaland.com/1796503/traditional-african-boat-designs
http://historum.com/middle-eastern-african-history/58840-diversity-early-african-architecture-ruins-thread.html
https://www.nairaland.com/1249503/interesting-images-precolonial-early-colonial
https://www.nairaland.com/582176/benin-art-architecture/
Edo Kingdom(Nigeria)
https://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/ya51284efa.jpg
https://www.manswersonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/sungboeredo1.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sungbo%27s_Eredo
Asante Empire(Ghana)
https://i.imgur.com/QpTDdgx.png?1
https://i.imgur.com/coycsF8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ERIeZwv.png?2
Kongo
[img]http://hitchcock.itc.virginia.edu/SlaveTrade/collection/large/VILE-180.JPG[/img]
https://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg5zbsqq1K1qgfbgio1_r1_1280.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gKuKI2T.jpg?2
Nsibidi(Igbo writing system)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nsibidi
More...
https://www.nairaland.com/189030/african-script
Production
http://der.org/resources/study-guides/blooms-of-banjeli-study-guide.pdf
[img]https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/1554585_african-productivity_jpeg73ad16662aab95c5e70965fc917f4ece[/img]
Bathrooms
https://i.imgur.com/yTkf0BO.jpg?1
Science and Tech
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science_and_technology_in_Africa
"Human sacrifice" was actually capital punishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Benin_Expedition_of_1897
Human rights concepts
http://www.kentlaw.edu/faculty/bbrown/classes/HumanRightsSP10/CourseDocs/9BanjulCharterandtheAfricanCulturalFingerprint.pdf
http://eccentricyoruba./
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/nigeria/precolwon.html
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/nigeria/colonwom.html

I know its alot of links but its important for you to know. Plus the above is just West Africa/Central alone!

How can people living on "basic survival" built these grand civilizations?