₦airaland Forum

macof:
Aroko to the best of my knowledge is based on symbolism...objects used strategically to pass a message

Can we call that writing?

It is also known as Yoruba Hieroglyphics, for reason that it largely reads like Egyptian or Mayan hieroglyphics.
https://www.nairaland.com/1829695/aroko-yoruba-hieroglyphics

A poster name TerraCotta gave a link on the African Script thread to a google book that had an archaeologist explaining this in detail before the NL hack occurrence. I have to see if I can track it down now as the post is no longer in the cache.

macof:
Yoruba history is passed orally...that's tradition
Even till now, Nobody would write an authentic book on Yoruba history without going round Yorubaland to get oral tales.

History isn't like a movie script you can write sitting in your bedroom

Bits of Yoruba history were captured from aroko aswell. Aroko is a form a written record.

Started off intelligent, but then turned biased at the end.

Omarbah:
Nobody denies the fact that there are many Europeans, politicians and people alike that hate the EU and I have made note of those differences. But that still doesn't prevent those wanting a stronger Europe to push forward. They have a lot issues to deal with. But the goal of the EU commission is to built a strong union(confederation) to protect their interests . Now my point is ,if Europeans despite their strengths are moving in that direction (bumpy ride) why us Africans, at least West Africans aren't when Ecowas economy does not match that of France alone.

My source states some of the opposition to a unified Europe are members of the EU, so how can the EU collectively push for a unified Europe if they are not in agreement internally?
ECOWAS should have no other job than to provide what the EU is currently providing Europe currently.

gise:
On the issue of did not come to get us ,really I don't see how this would've even been possible .The tribes in Africa had no navy comparable to what europe had.alot of slaves were kidnapped and trafficked to the coast from deep in the interior and there was no way for there family to get them back. Also there was no "us" you had tribes and clans no idea of black or African unity existed I am African American and I know that what ever tribes I descend from also sold slaves or owned them and when I say tribe I mean language group for example Hausa or Wolof or Igbo Now it is curious that people from the SlaveCoast area would be the most antagonistic towards slave descendants. I'm not disssing I'm keeping it wan hun'id Naija was the SlaveCoast its likely that majority of us have a little Naija in us. Not saying we are mainly from there or giving out percentages to get shot down. Finally and I know this was long . We African Americans identify similar to it was said Nigerians do 1) immediate household 2) extended family 3) neighborhood/borough/ward/housing project or side of town . State as a whole and U$A as a whole come dead last. The arrogance the drive to succeed is also similar. You do seem to care more about education than my folks. And yes indeed lastly if I'm not mistaken don't other Africans sorta look down on Nigerians the way people look down on Americans or Jews ?

Are you sure about Africans knowledge of the continent at the time? King Agaja of Dahimey kingdom was well aware of "West Africa".
And have you heard of the Bissago islands? The inhabitant's navy held off the Eurpeans until 1939.

destante:
I didn't read through completely but I think every culture is dynamic and will keep evolving as influenced by others. the good will always come with the bad hence. how you differentiate the bad from good will mostly be personal

That is why this article was written:
https://www.nairaland.com/1796388/tradition-progress

Would've been much better off if the brits never came.

Omarbah:
Here is a speech of Margaret Thatcher about the EU.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVt_1ByddUQ.
At 1:30 she says the President of the EU commission made a statement at a press conference that he wanted the EU parliament to be the democratic body of the community and the commission to be the executive bod and the council of ministers to be the senate.
There you have it, that's the goal of the EU. And by "physically' what do you mean? Isn't economical and political union a physical one? The EU will become a Confederation and it will have a stronger government body at the top, once all of the major differences between Europeans are sorted out.

From Wikipedia

Opposition[edit]
The European Union does not include every nation in Europe and there is no consensus among the existing national governments towards becoming even a Confederation. There is also significant internal opposition to the concept in many member states.

The term United States of Europe, as a direct comparison with the United States of America, would imply that the existing nations of Europe would be reduced to a status equivalent to that of a US state, losing their national sovereignty in the process and becoming constituent parts of a European federation. Just as the United States of America has evolved from a confederation (under the 1777 Articles of Confederation) into a federation, the term the United States of Europe might also be used to describe a potential confederation of independent states. Those who oppose and criticise forming a federation or confederation of European states may be termed Eurosceptics; however it should be noted that opposition to the creation of a European federation does not equate with opposition to the European Union or the process of European integration.

Going by what you said, the EU must not include "members", or "Eurosceptics", that oppose the unification of Europe at all, so who are these "Eurosceptics"? Its a little blunt to assume every member of the EU wants to unite.

Omarbah:
who said they were ethnic groups? Somalia is one ethnic group and even better, one religion but with their clans, look at what is happening. Didn't the Yoruba kingdom face a rebellion that was exploited by Sokoto and yet it was tribes fighting each other.

Somalia is not united and has virtually no government. Its also easy to make knitting-club members fight too, but that doesn't mean they should submit themselves to other clubs.

Omarbah:
What makes Botswana stable is not their ethnic or tribal makeup but their political system which ensures participation of every tribe regardless of the size.

You mean the kind of political system the kingdoms used to ensure cohesiveness?

Omarbah:
How much direct participation do the kings, obas, emirs of Nigeria have in the policies of the country?

Thanks to the anti-African structure of Nigeria, even pagans are complaining they don't have much say in governmental policies.

joseph1832:
Don't quote me wrong! I never said our ancestors were saint. They did unthinkable things like the killing of twins, but they did it out of ignorance. They were never trying to mimic anybody.

Please kindly explain your emphasis on our ancestors having six kids for four different men.

What, were your peoples ancestors from calabar or something by any chance? Because most Nigerians of those times were not even think to do that, they loved twins.

Wait. They started doing this during the colonial era? Thats new information.

Good article. But I have somepoints:
There many more groups of Africans that explored Africa, no just the above mentioned.

Also, camels came to Africa in 200AD, but Berbers have been trading with the Nok and Sao civilizations since the BC era, the Sao even had coin currency and both had caverly. How could that have happened?

Sadly its been widespread since the turn of the 20th century and hasn't gone back. As mentioned before, blacks are some of the biggest peddlers of anti-African, anti-ancestral hate. Even forming agendas. Respect thy self before you expect others to.

Self-hate is the bane of the blackman, not just Africans. Like the Op, I'm of carbbean descent and even I know caribbeans are just as rude if not even more so than Africans. As for the ebola issue, one person commented on why Africans havent addressed it themselves:

macof:
[quote author=kingston277 post=25285089]Great thread, but whats keeping the medicinemen from responding to the Ebola outbreak like they did with the sleeping sickness in Uganda? Distrust in traditional practices?

Yes there's so much distrust and attacks against traditional practices in today's Africa by the larger population of Christians and muslims[/quote]

Everybody inhabiting the continent is weak not just the men. Thats why they all still cling to their masters from the west.

Omarbah: Did you forget the part where I mentioned how Nigel Farage is opposed to the EU because he believes its true goal is a federal Europe? For now the EU is an organization but make no mistake, its goal is in building a continental state.

Evidence? All it does is unite Europe economically and politically, not physically.

Omarbah: Bostwana isn't a monoethnic state. Thank you for bringing them up by the way, they are a good example of how a political system that ensure participation by everyone can built a cohesive society. Here is an extract from wikipedia.

"The advisory House of Chiefs represents the eight principal subgroups of the Botswana people, and four other members are elected by the subchiefs of four of the districts. A draft of any National Assembly bill of tribal concern must be referred to the House of Chiefs for advisory opinion. Chiefs and other leaders preside over customary, traditional courts, though all persons have the right to request that their case be considered under the formal British-based legal system."

Those are tribes/clans, not ethnic groups. There close knit before colonialism and operated in a similar society they have today.

Omarbah: I have addressed the issue of the decline of these empires, particularly the Songhai empire. It did decline because the central authority at some point was unable to destroy trouble makers and it ended up in civil war. Deploying troops faster was a hassle we do not have now.Even the Moroccans that destroyed the empires couldn't rule such a vast state. It eventually split into dozens of kingdoms that were all weak and that's when things started getting really bad for Africans.

One state does not affect a whole continent. Maybe they(former Songhai) became poorer as a result, but the rest of the continent continued to thrive.

Omarbah: But did you read the Economy part? How beautiful was that.

Yes. As every other kingdom was.

Omarbah: Even in monoethnic kingdoms there will still be conflicts, the Sokoto Caliphate exploited the differences among the Yoruba didn't it? Once you turn down to ethnic state then, tribes or clans become the new thing. Somalis are one ethnic group, look at their state?

It is much more difficult to divide an ethnic group than it is to divide a vast multi-ethnic kingdom. Especially if the non-diminant tribe was conquered.

Omarbah: My point: what is most important is a political system that allows everyone to participate.

You mean the parliamentary/council system used in many kingdoms at the time?

Omarbah: And earlier you said this...

I don't know how those points conflict. Please elaborate?

Dahomey kingdom

The domestic economy was largely focused on agriculture and crafts produced for local consumption. Until the development of palm oil, very little agricultural or craft goods were traded outside of the kingdom. Markets served a key role in the kingdom and were organized around a rotating cycle of four days with a different market each day (the market type for the day was religiously sanctioned).[10] Agriculture work was largely decentralized and done by most families. However, with the expansion of the kingdom and the importance of the slave trade, agricultural plantations begun to be a common agricultural method in the kingdom. Craft work was largely dominated by a formal guild system.[14]

Herskovits recounts a complex tax system in the kingdom where officials from the king, the tokpe, would gather data from each village regarding their harvest and then the king would set a tax based upon the level of production and number of villagers in the village. In addition, the kings own land and production were taxed.[10] With the significant road construction undertaken by the kingdom, toll booths were also established which would collect yearly taxes by people based on the good they carried, their occupation, and sometimes fines for public nuisance before allowing them to pass.

That doesn't sound like a bad economy to me. Songhai sounds less productive.

Omarbah: Walter Rodney would disagree with the Historians to quoted. I would like to clarify a one thing. Condemning slavery is not intended to make Africans guilty. After all the vast majority of Africans were not involved in the trade, and there were some opposed to it.
Going back to Rodney, here is quote from his book "How Europe Underdeveloped Africa"


Basically here is what he is saying in this part of the book. Instead of gold mining, part of the African elite turned to slave trading because it was more profitable for them. The Europeans gave them in exchange "guns, ammunition, cloth, cooking utensils and alcoholic beverages". Not withstanding the fact that this cheap junk competed with the local economy, but also that African elite that willingly participated in the trade did not foresee the long term consequence for their economy.
Here is another quote from Rodney that corroborates what I stated earlier. The small states were just too weak to ensure stability just like how Liberia and Sierra Leone are unable to do it today. An epidemic is threatening the existence of Liberia. Break Liberia into Kru, Khran, Mandingo states and you'll have nothing, maybe states the size of a neighborhood of Lagos.

If that was true, then why did they do this...

Benin profited from its close ties with the Portuguese and exploited the firearms bought from them to tighten its hold on the lower Niger area. Two factors checked the spread of Portuguese influence and the continued expansion of Benin, however. First, Portugal stopped buying pepper because of the availability of other spices in the Indian Ocean region. Second, Benin placed an embargo on the export of slaves, thereby isolating itself from the growth of what was to become the major export from the Nigerian coast for 300 years. Benin continued to capture slaves and to employ them in its domestic economy, but the Edo state remained unique among Nigerian polities in refusing to participate in the transatlantic trade. In the long run, Benin remained relatively isolated from the major changes along the Nigerian coast.

And...

While the slave trade did destroy many societies in the near-coastal areas, further
inland some Africans gained from the trade. Small states began to take shape while others
prospered. The Yoruba Kingdom grew in size and strength during the eighteenth century.
A new empire, the Asanti empire, rose in central and coastal Ghana. By the nineteenth
century, a number of West African societies along the Niger Delta were producing their own
palm oil instead of slaves. They had their own plantations, but they did not have industrial
production. However, their efforts were dampened by European colonialism.

If they enjoyed profit from the slave trade, why did they restrict slave trading and establish more domestic plantations for local production?
There are even articles explicitly stating that African kingdoms noticed depopulation and economy issues, and traded slaves between each other to compensate. I will provide it when I find it again.

This is an excellent example of pre-colonial ingenuity of African kingdoms, producing mathematicians the continent over since ancient times. No wonder they were so advanced.

johnjay4u2u: the last quote got me thinking. Africa's main problem has been selfishness. Our kings traded other people's sons and daughters and hid theirs. This era, politicians loot money meant for all for their families.
It's a pity we still hate ourselves.
If two men(a black and a white who look alike) are dressed the same way, Africans will reflexly prefer the white.
''Emancipate yourself from mental slavery''- Bob Marley

Got the bronze. TTC. I'm getting there.

Funny these "selfish" kings still protected you from invaders. And how is it selfish to rid the kingdom of felons.

Omarbah: Isn't it what we are talking about though? Uniting Africans under a state that will control foreign policy, currency and army. How is NATO+EU different from that? Why do people like Nigel Farage are opposed to the EU, it's possible they believe the true design is a federal Europe. That's what their goal is.

EU/NATO isn't a state, though. It is a political organization that serves the interest of the various states of the continent that are affliated with it. I don't understand how you can confuse the two. Europe is just fine as it is with the EU it does not need a conferderation to destroy any remnants of Ethnic exclusive cultures and stability. A hand full of peripheral politicians aren't going to make that federation happen.

Omarbah: And what do you propose meanwhile, that Africans, with ECOWAS economy not being the size of France to just remain in their ethnic states because it is more cohesive. Those would be overrun in no time. No African ethnic state can compete globally. Name me one if you can.

The time it would take to name the number of mono-ethnic nations would be time consuming, I'm sure you've heard of the success of Botswana as well as other world wide mono-ethnic nations. Face it, a mono-ethnic country is the safest route.

Omarbah: And why couldn't foreign forces invade us when we had our multiethnic empires/states?

Did foreign forces invade our single-ethnic states, then?
And please read what happened to Songhai and Bornu as well. Multiethnic can only work with cohesion, that didn't last long enough for those two kingdoms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Songhai_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bornu_Empire#Decline_and_Fall

Omarbah: Seriously though, every ethnic group will be diluted to such an extend that it would be foolish for a politician to play on those lines. Just like how during the independence movement, the Rassemblement Democratique Africain had no tribalism in it. Everybody was "African" that's it. You couldn't talk ethnicity because you had no incentive to do so. What defined the leaders was their ideas, their sense of leadership and devotion to the African cause.
I will tell you another thing. Francophone Africa had two zones, west and equatorial. The Afrique Occidentale Francaise (French West Africa) had all of the current french speaking states with a federal capital in Dakar. De Gaulle, the french president, in order to destroy that union proposes a new constitution that had to be ratified by referendum. Sekou toure, the president of Guinea along with some others asked that the Unions remain the same and to be recognized by the constitution. De Gaulle refused, a gave the states the "option to take independence alone or to unite with another whenever it wanted to take its independence". Guineans saw through the scheme, it was just another readjustment of their colonial policy. We opted for the NO and took independence, all of the other states still have their currency run by France. But what happened is that France was able to destroy that strong union that could have produced beautiful things for us. There was no tribalism back then, we could have used our larger economy to create a bigger tax base, use public debt to finance infrastructure projects. But instead we ended up with small states that couldn't do anything for themselves. We are still POOR. At the time, it was one currency, commercial zone, open borders, railroads connecting the capitals. Now everyone is in his little corner, calling himself a state, when they can't even finance their goddamn budget. How many of such states will pop if we go along ethnic lines?

Great. But that still doesn't address what happened to the said empires above.

Omarbah: Between Africans selling millions and few Arabs and Europeans being caught in the trade is different my friend. No matter how you look at it, Africans lost this trade. Instead of using that labor to grow our economy. Well the others did that with the people they took from Africa.
And the evidence is there, just look at the Caribbean or go to the USA, you will see it clearly.

Where did you get the information to generalize that most states didn't place restrictions on the slave trading? And grow our economy? Why do you think states like Benin place restrictions in the first place? You think they were satisfied with letting their production levels fall because of whiteman? And nobodys sure weather there was any damage caused by the trade to begin with:

Both Thornton and Fage contend that while African political elite may have ultimately benefited from the slave trade, their decision to participate may have been influenced more by what they could lose by not participating. In Fage's article "Slavery and the Slave Trade in the Context of West African History," he notes that for West Africans "... there were really few effective means of mobilizing labour for the economic and political needs of the state" without the slave trade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade#Effect_on_the_economy_of_West_Africa
And...

If one were to read more works by Fage, Thornton, and Rodney (mentioned by another author of this page in the same section) he would learn that their focus is not to place blame on African elites for Europeans taking their fellow citizens away, but rather to illuminate the pressures and benefits that would have convinced a leader to join or rejoin the slave trade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Atlantic_slave_trade#Effect_on_the_economy_of_Africa

Omarbah: wrong, if the Europeans with their stronger economies are uniting why can't we?

Where have you see Europeans uniting? Other than EU/NATO I haven't. In fact the USSR and Scotland issues are suggesting otherwise.

Omarbah: Good luck going through the war thing, what a sweet opportunity that would be for Europeans to come back.

Good luck trying to unite people with no ethnic, historical, linguistic, or religious affiliation. The mass tribalism will surely keep that super-nation under Western thumbs.

Omarbah: You seriously aren't the enslavement of Indians with that of Africans are you? How many Arabs got sold by other Arabs as slaves to the Americas?

Quite a few, along with Irish, Chinese and Indians. Africans were the largest but it remains under debate what lead to the scale the slave trade got to. We don't have all the answers.

Omarbah: The issue here is very simple. Europeans did not sell Europeans to Africans but Africans did sell Africans to Europeans.

Africans didn't need to buy any slaves, warfare allowed them to capture, enslave, and extract information from reversal Europeans. Look at King Agaja or the Kanem-Bornu Empire. Foreign slaves were very valuable in those days.

Omarbah: Do you realize the difference here? They got human cattle and we received cheap junk. The same with the Arabs, they never gave us humans in exchange for something.

To an extent they did...
http://historum.com/middle-eastern-african-history/68815-slaves-brought-into-sub-saharan-africa.html
...But they also traded beast of burden, weapons and horses, too.

Omarbah: sure it does but only if it is big enough and has the resources to compete with the outside world. Do you think a Yoruba, an Igbo state could compete with the rest of the world? There is not a single African ethnic group that control vast land and resources to do that.
Which is why I do believe giving up foreign policy, currency and army to a larger union is our best bet. The rest could be left to the ethnic groups.
Could you imagine, an Igbo president negotiating trade deals with the representative of the EU?

Which is why pleep suggested absorbing different ethnic groups into a state with one dominant ruling ethnic group like it was done in the olden days. Sounds difficult doesn't it? Well thats your only other proven to work option other than ethnic nations.

Omarbah: world wide trade with only Africans as the human commodity. We lost on this trade, however you look at it. We did not get anything valuable from it.

Only Africans? Where did you get that? My slave trade book im reading even has an example of Africans fighting and capturing Arab slave traders and selling them off to the West. Not to mention this: http://www.jstor.org/stable/25118876
https://www.indiacurrents.com/articles/2007/05/16/indian-slaves-in-colonial-america
Not sure where you got "only Africans as the human commodity" from.

pleep: Pretty much hits the nail on this head. Africa at the time of colonization was in its dark age, and remained frozen in that state due to artificial borders and colonization.

The only way for africa to break free of this state would be warfare and conquest, through which the stronger ethnic groups would incorporate the weak and grow strong in both national identity and size. That is the natural state of human progress. This, however, would never be allowed to occur due to humanitarian concerns and western interference.

That is the reason i advocate unconventional methods of progres, because so long as africa looks like the map above natural progress will never occur.

I agree with Africa slipping into the dark ages when colonization came. However, I guess to replicate what civilizations in the old days did, you would need a justification for warfare. And thats the sad part, Africans spent the last few millennia building states and absorbing tribes into them, colonization threw that all away and discouraged teaching of the former national language and philosophy of these imperial kingdoms. Going through this again in the 21st century is very difficult to justify now with the worlds police shoving "humanitarianism" and "globalization" down everybody's throats. Plus, you'd have to deal with more powerful weapons of warfare increasing damage. Look at what Russia is doing to Ukraine, yet even without much bloodshed the West still won't keep their nose out of it.

pleep: Pretty much hits the nail on this head. Africa at the time of colonization was in its dark age, and remained frozen in that state due to artificial borders and colonization.

The only way for africa to break free of this state would be warfare and conquest, through which the stronger ethnic groups would incorporate the weak and grow strong in both national identity and size. That is the natural state of human progress. This, however, would never be allowed to occur due to humanitarian concerns and western interference.

That is the reason i advocate unconventional methods of progres, because so long as africa looks like the map above natural progress will never occur.

I agree with Africa slipping into the dark ages when colonization came. However, to replicate what civilizations in the old days did, you would need a justification for warfare. And thats the sad part, Africans spent the last few millennia building states and absorbing tribes into them, colonization threw that all away and stamped out influence of these former imperial kingdoms. Going through this again in the 21st century is very difficult to justify now with the worlds police are shoving "humanitarianism" and "globalization" down everybody's throats. Plus, you'd have to deal with more powerful weapons of warfare increasing destruction. Look at what Russia is doing to Ukraine, yet even without much bloodshed the West still won't keep their nose out of it, calling for "humanitarianism".

babosky2008: I agree wv some of your pointd too,but can you anza dz questions? How much of stollen wall street wealth can you find in africa? All d billions stolen by black people is domiciled in dollars,pounds and euro, A white man steals and circulate the money in his country economy and improve the spending power of his pple, Abacha, ibori,david mark,etc stole their country money and transfered it abroad to improve the lives of other pple. U should bear it in mind that the economy and prosperity of a nation is not determined by d numbers of billionaires, rather the no of pple that are able to touch the millions daily. Rememba,Awolowo and abiola,dz two were an asset for the black race, they were wasted by the evil power to be, rememba thomaz sankara,he was equally wasted. Come to fink of it, do u tink obama would v become a president in kenya? My brother,do not b deceived, Africa is the headquarter of Evil, check out d events in dz nations...boko haram in nigeria, crisis in sudan,inflatn in zimbabwe, arson n murder in ekiti, militancy n kidnaping in niger delta,robbery,419, yahooyahoo nationwide.prostitutn n human traffiking, bribery n corruptn,favourtism n nepotism, adultery n fornicatn, fake miracles and pentecoastal churches.what else can we say about the black race? WE ARE AT THE MERCY OF GOD.

You are the bane of the Blackman, emaciate yourself.

kingston277: http://historum.com/middle-eastern-african-history/70114-african-culture-9.html
https://www.nairaland.com/1796503/traditional-african-boat-designs
http://historum.com/middle-eastern-african-history/58840-diversity-early-african-architecture-ruins-thread.html
https://www.nairaland.com/1249503/interesting-images-precolonial-early-colonial
https://www.nairaland.com/582176/benin-art-architecture/
Edo Kingdom(Nigeria)
https://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/ya51284efa.jpg
https://www.manswersonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/sungboeredo1.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sungbo%27s_Eredo
Asante Empire(Ghana)
https://i.imgur.com/QpTDdgx.png?1
https://i.imgur.com/coycsF8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ERIeZwv.png?2
Kongo
[img]http://hitchcock.itc.virginia.edu/SlaveTrade/collection/large/VILE-180.JPG[/img]
https://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg5zbsqq1K1qgfbgio1_r1_1280.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gKuKI2T.jpg?2
Nsibidi(Igbo writing system)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nsibidi
More...
https://www.nairaland.com/189030/african-script
Production
http://der.org/resources/study-guides/blooms-of-banjeli-study-guide.pdf
[img]https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/1554585_african-productivity_jpeg73ad16662aab95c5e70965fc917f4ece[/img]
Bathrooms
https://i.imgur.com/yTkf0BO.jpg?1
Science and Tech
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science_and_technology_in_Africa
"Human sacrifice" was actually capital punishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Benin_Expedition_of_1897
Human rights concepts
http://www.kentlaw.edu/faculty/bbrown/classes/HumanRightsSP10/CourseDocs/9BanjulCharterandtheAfricanCulturalFingerprint.pdf
http://eccentricyoruba./
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/nigeria/precolwon.html
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/nigeria/colonwom.html

I know its alot of links but its important for you to know. Plus the above is just West Africa/Central alone!

Of course there are people here defending things like Free Masonry just because its Western while continuing to bash African traditions all over the forums. Next, Illuminati/NWO will be considered "NOT evil in any way. Its all about making a man a better individual in the society, More like creating a total man."
SMH.

Omarbah: They do have their share of blame of course.

Still doesn't excuse thte fact that you condem 19th century Africans for an extremely common world wide trade. Sure its bad now, but back then(and even now), their only real crime was the scale at which it took place.

Omarbah: Okay I am confused. Did they place restrictions on the slave trade to "increase production" or not? If they did wouldn't that mean that the slave trade itself was detrimental to their economies?

To maintain the high production. No-one knows how high their production was prior to 19th century but we know the slave trade was a huge threat to (non-slave trading) industries. The rulers needed to look for new ways to combat potential decline in production so they restricted slave trading. Whats the issue again?

Omarbah: Multiethnic states are not a new thing in West Africa. The Ghana empire, the Mali empire, the Songhai empire, the Tekrur, Futa Toro of Koli Tengella, the Sokoto Caliphate were all multiethnic and that did not prevent them from flourishing.

Sure, But guess what. How did those states get so big in the first place? You really don't think most of the ethnic groups (states, really) just polity let Mali or Songhai lord over them did you? In order for said states to get so big, they conquered and pillaged other kingdoms to take over their land. I would have recommend the same thing for Africa today if there wasn't the whole slaughtering/carnage problem and the UN breathing down the necks of aspiring 21st century conquistadors.

Omarbah: So the argument about us having to bundle into our own kingdoms or states in order to guarantee greatness does not stand. My point throughout this whole debate has been that monoethnic states won't protect their citizens from foreign influence and competition. Under one form or the other, we need to bundle up and let go of our differences and look at our common interest. Nothing prevents a multiethnic state from allowing the ethnic group to set up an education system using its language.

Its still a more effective route to take than one massive country rife with political instability and zero identity, and has been tried and tested. Even the ancient states you mentioned started out single ethnic and grew from there.

As ezeagu stated it can work, but a single-ethnic set up is more economical, politically-friendly, an has yielded more examples of success.

I was looking around the net and noticed:

Georgian calender: 2014
Igbo calender: 1014–1015
Ethiopian calendar: 2006-2007
Chinese calender: 4710 or 4650
Berber calendar: 2964

Can anyone provide a year from their ethnic group?

Omarbah: No selling slaves is wrong, people should be instead put to work. You cannot justify the sell of people.

Only when Africans do it, is what it sounded like you said. And in the context of the 19th century world where no-one saw it as wrong, why do you criticize only Africans for participating in their trade. If anything, the West should be blamed for dropping in and milking it dry.

Omarbah: You said this in your previous post "Some, like Benin, place heavy restrictions on the number of slaves sold to increase production and ceased to become a notable slave trading kingdom since. " There is nothing whatsoever ethnocentric about what I said.

Yes it was. You said...

But instead the states with their weak armies and economies could not stop the slave trade.

And...

If the Songhai empire had been able to establish its authority firmly, this would not have happened.

Since you are sahelian yourself, it sounds like you are biased towards sahelian kingdoms by placing their morality and economic responsibility above the forest kingdoms simply because their culture/religion was different from yours. Nowhere in my post did I suggest that their economy was weaker than before the slave trade. On the contrary it may have been stronger or easier to build a strong economy without the slave trade meddling into resources. The "increased production" was a response to the slave trade and was to maintain the strong economies they had before to lessen impact of the slave trade. The slave trade did weaken some lesser forest kingdoms like whydah, but only because some of them didn't take action to counter this loss of human resources. Benin and Dahomey(and Asante I think) flourished during the trade with restrictions on slave trading.

Omarbah: I am against states being formed on ethnic lines IF we have not built a stronger ECOWAS beforehand for the reasons I mention.

In other words, and EU equivalent, right?

Omarbah: If we do then due to the desire for many Africans to have a state with their ethnic brothers and sisters, I do see why energy and resources should be spent to stop it. It would counterproductive to do so. If ECOWAS is not to be become a strong union, then I would rather have the current states like Nigeria maintained and smaller countries like Senegal, Guinea , Guinea Bissau unite.

This is why I said...

Better to start small and break up before uniting again. It allows for build up and focus on particular ethnic groups and histories which in turn allows for proper address of issues. Its important to isolate the cancer and destroy it, not cover it up in one big dust bin of a country that still can't live up to the glory of Oyo, Benin or Asante.

And...

NATO is precisely what I'm stating, it is one big organization designed to protect the interest of Western nations without the need for unionizing these nations politically. The EU already accomplished being a strong political entity without the need to unite all European nations aligned with it. Europe moved past unionizing all together ages ago.

We'd better work on getting ECOWAS or AU to turn to our side then. Because I foresee some huge issues in lumping more nations into bigger, less culturally expressive countries than we are already dealing with.

Omarbah: So these are two different situations. My goal is to have some state or union that will be able to protect our interests. Ethnic states won't do it unless they all give up some sectors (army, currency, and foreign policy) to a union where they will have representatives.

As I said ethnic states worked before. State union doesn't always mean power, just look at the Congo, they should've never united in the first place. History in this instance is very important in drawing borders, if a bunch of ethnic groups never lived under the same ruler for as long as their history has been documented, why do we think it would work now? Thats like unionizing Canada, US and Mexico. There are actually proposals being done by obscure programs, but no-one takes these proposals seriously because these nations gain little from uniting physically, not anymore than just sticking with NATO.

Omarbah: I do believe within Nigeria, the native languages can be promoted. If there is the political will, it can happen. One has to focus on the main three, national languages or 5 national and regional languages to achieve it. If Switzerland and Belgium with their small sizes can have three languages why not Nigeria?

Most of those countries use a dominant language. Sure, its possible, Canada after all has Quebec which is theoretically its own country the way its disconnected from North America let alone Canada, but still remains in the union. But look at how they are trying to break out of the union and discourage influence from then rest of the country. Look at how Scotland is trying to leave the UK, if they do leave, are they really in danger if being conquered just because the're smaller? Can't they remain with EU and NATO.

pleep: no, i am not interested in Eygpt.

But the discussion has little to do with Egypt.

Seems like this thread should've been in the religion section.

Op, do you happen to know to this cretin:
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=008818;p=1

I'd choose to live as a Blackman for eons.

kingston277: http://historum.com/middle-eastern-african-history/70114-african-culture-9.html
https://www.nairaland.com/1796503/traditional-african-boat-designs
http://historum.com/middle-eastern-african-history/58840-diversity-early-african-architecture-ruins-thread.html
https://www.nairaland.com/1249503/interesting-images-precolonial-early-colonial
https://www.nairaland.com/582176/benin-art-architecture/
Edo Kingdom(Nigeria)
https://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/ya51284efa.jpg
https://www.manswersonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/sungboeredo1.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sungbo%27s_Eredo
Asante Empire(Ghana)
https://i.imgur.com/QpTDdgx.png?1
https://i.imgur.com/coycsF8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ERIeZwv.png?2
Kongo
[img]http://hitchcock.itc.virginia.edu/SlaveTrade/collection/large/VILE-180.JPG[/img]
https://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg5zbsqq1K1qgfbgio1_r1_1280.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gKuKI2T.jpg?2
Nsibidi(Igbo writing system)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nsibidi
More...
https://www.nairaland.com/189030/african-script
Production
http://der.org/resources/study-guides/blooms-of-banjeli-study-guide.pdf
[img]https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/1554585_african-productivity_jpeg73ad16662aab95c5e70965fc917f4ece[/img]
Bathrooms
https://i.imgur.com/yTkf0BO.jpg?1
Science and Tech
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science_and_technology_in_Africa
"Human sacrifice" was actually capital punishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Benin_Expedition_of_1897
Human rights concepts
http://www.kentlaw.edu/faculty/bbrown/classes/HumanRightsSP10/CourseDocs/9BanjulCharterandtheAfricanCulturalFingerprint.pdf
http://eccentricyoruba./
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/nigeria/precolwon.html
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/nigeria/colonwom.html

I know its alot of links but its important for you to know. Plus the above is just West Africa/Central alone!

Can monkeys do this?

kingston277: http://historum.com/middle-eastern-african-history/70114-african-culture-9.html
https://www.nairaland.com/1796503/traditional-african-boat-designs
http://historum.com/middle-eastern-african-history/58840-diversity-early-african-architecture-ruins-thread.html
https://www.nairaland.com/1249503/interesting-images-precolonial-early-colonial
https://www.nairaland.com/582176/benin-art-architecture/
Edo Kingdom(Nigeria)
https://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/ya51284efa.jpg
https://www.manswersonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/sungboeredo1.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sungbo%27s_Eredo
Asante Empire(Ghana)
https://i.imgur.com/QpTDdgx.png?1
https://i.imgur.com/coycsF8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ERIeZwv.png?2
Kongo
[img]http://hitchcock.itc.virginia.edu/SlaveTrade/collection/large/VILE-180.JPG[/img]
https://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg5zbsqq1K1qgfbgio1_r1_1280.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gKuKI2T.jpg?2
Nsibidi(Igbo writing system)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nsibidi
More...
https://www.nairaland.com/189030/african-script
Production
http://der.org/resources/study-guides/blooms-of-banjeli-study-guide.pdf
[img]https://www.nairaland.com/attachments/1554585_african-productivity_jpeg73ad16662aab95c5e70965fc917f4ece[/img]
Bathrooms
https://i.imgur.com/yTkf0BO.jpg?1
Science and Tech
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science_and_technology_in_Africa
"Human sacrifice" was actually capital punishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Benin_Expedition_of_1897
Human rights concepts
http://www.kentlaw.edu/faculty/bbrown/classes/HumanRightsSP10/CourseDocs/9BanjulCharterandtheAfricanCulturalFingerprint.pdf
http://eccentricyoruba./
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/nigeria/precolwon.html
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/nigeria/colonwom.html

I know its alot of links but its important for you to know. Plus the above is just West Africa/Central alone!