₦airaland Forum

@ ttalks

Ok fair enough. Would you mind telling me what you found that is contradictory? Please go one at a time so to lessen any confusion. For example, Mary. If you want to start there let me know. And then we can move on from there.

morpheus24:
Which is why I cannot follow nor would advise any one to follow a "Church " which is imperfect and is trying to lead me to perfection through pointless rituals and traditions cause they are doomed to fail.

If anyone understands who the Church is, they will realise that She isn't imperfect, but that the members are imperfect. Unfortunately the prevailing evangelisation that is going on today is that of protestants (televangelists and all). Those who have strayed from the true meaning of the Church and what she is supposed to do.

The Church is the Body of Christ, Christ in himself is perfect and therefore his body must be also. But there are members of his body who are working on salvation (meaning they aren't saved until they take their last breath because tomorrow they can and most likely will sin, too many people walk out of the church building and curse others out, i'll tell you a joke later on) they are supposed to be purifying themselves from sin, but seeing that they cannot do it, because they are imperfect as humans they need the help of God.

That is why the Eucharist (Holy Communion) is needed, unfortunately protestants don't understand the uniqueness and importance of the eucharist they call it heretical. And because they lack the eucharist they lack God inside of them, living through them, praying through them. Just exactly what he wants to do. He is the only one that can fight the devil, and the only one that can be sinless, how can we tell him we don't need him and expect to become sinless.

So I understand where you're coming from, and I know that it's because what you see out there isn't the fullness of the mystery of Christ. People are adding their own jara to it.

So the Church is perfect because the Church is the body of Christ, but its members are not perfect.

The joke:

My priest is from Nigeria and before he came to the U.S. for missionary work, he was an associate pastor at a parish.
One day he was driving and one of his parishioners was behind him. He was taking his time maneuvering through the road, and the parishioner was becoming irritated. So the parishioner started cursing and saying all sorts of things, so the parishioner finally was able to get to the side of the Priest and wanted to say a few words to him, then he saw it was the priest and immediately he did the sign of the cross and screamed oh father. The priest laughs.

I thought that was hilarious.

bindex:
The bibleGod decleard that he created evil go and read your bibles.

Awww look at you so desperately wishing it were in there. Awwww you're cute too. hahaha

Martian:
HA

YOUR god IS NON-EXISTENT.

hahaha ur waaaaay too cute

morpheus24:
Very true, I am human and possess the ability to do good or evil

The kind of people that should be destroyed are the kind that are hypocrites and see only what they want to see and not what is actually there, right in front of them staring them in the face rather they will choose to hide under cloaks of ignorance

It is those type of people that have done the most harm since the beginning of existence and should be wiped out pyshically or mentally.

You call this "trouble" I call this "enlightenment"

Exactly, and within all things there are good and there are bad, and we live with both, so it is hypocritical of you to have written what you wrote with the purpose behind it, knowing fully well that you are human just as they are, and you as well have done some terrible things.

You have no enlightenment for me. But I will plead with you to stop generalising. Christians fall into the human family and they are not perfect, and they will never be perfect, and keep in mind that Christ will reject a whole lot of Christians, as he already said not everyone who calls me Lord will enter into His Kingdom. So rest assured Christ knows and their judgment is coming.

I thought this would be a good joke. It certainly made me laugh. Hahaha

God vs Science

'Let me explain the problem science has with religion.' The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?'

'Yes sir,' the student says.

'So you believe in God?'

'Absolutely.'

'Is God good?'

'Sure! God's good.'

'Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?'

'Yes'

'Are you good or evil?'

'The Bible says I'm evil'

The professor grins knowingly. 'Aha! The Bible!' He considers for a moment. 'Here's one for you. Let's say t here's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help
Him? Would you try?'

'Yes sir, I would.' 'So you're good, !' 'I wouldn't say that.'

'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.'
The student does not answer, so the professor continues. 'He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?'

The student remains silent. 'No, you can't, can you?' the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

'Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?'

'Er, yes,' the student says.

'Is Satan good?'

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. 'No.'

'Then where does Satan come from?'

The student falters. 'From God'

'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?'

'Yes, sir.'

'Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?'

'Yes'

'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.'

Again, the student has no answer. 'Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?'

The student squirms on his feet. 'Yes.'

'So who created them?'

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. 'Who created them?' There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. 'Tell me,' he continues onto another student. 'Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?'

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. 'Yes, professor, I do.'

The old man stops pacing. 'Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?'

'No sir. I've never seen Him.'

'Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?'

'No, sir, I have not.'

'Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?'

'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.'

'Yet you still believe in him?'

'Yes'

'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?'

'Nothing,' the student replies. 'I only have my faith.'

'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.'

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. 'Professor, is there such thing as heat?'

' Yes.

'And is there such a thing as cold?'

'Yes, son, there's cold too.'

'No sir, there isn't.'

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. 'You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that.

There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.' 'Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.'

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer. 'What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?'

'Yes,' the professor replies without hesitation. 'What is night if it isn't darkness?'

'You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word.'

'In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?'

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. 'So what point are you making, young man?'

'Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be fl awed.'

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. 'Flawed? Can you explain how?'

'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains, 'You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.'

'It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.'

'Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?' 'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.'

'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?'

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

'To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.'
The student looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?' The class breaks out into laughter.

'Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.' 'So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?'

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. 'I guess you'll have to take them on faith.'

'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,' the student continues 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?'

Now uncertain, the professor responds, 'Of course, there is. We see it everyday It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.'

To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.'

The professor sat down.

morpheus24:
I see you avoided the other truths that were mentioned. Bravo!

No I didn't ignore them, but it seems you want me to address them, but I am skeptical to because ppl like you are always looking for trouble and I don't want to be sucked in. You always want a fight that will lead us no where. But I will say this.

Humans have done evil things, and since you are human you must be evil too, and your kind must be destroyed or not believed.

ttalks:
To research on Christianity,go to the Bible.
To research on Roman Catholicism;one has to go else where and those are the Catholic Documents,articles,rules/regulations,constitutions,whatever,etc.
These Catholic sources as mentioned above are what any sincere Christian goes through to make conclusions on.We don't need any Catholic Priest or leader to explain them for us.
And the point we're stressing is that most of the contents of these Catholic sources do not agree with Scripture.
You might say that there are other books that support ur Catholic practices; but if that truly is the case,the little we have in the bible would also point out agreement one way or the other with ur doctrines.
But as we know,the bible does not in anyway support ur traditions/doctrines.

Exactly and that's why we tell you to go to Catholic websites to get the actual documents. Majority of the documents that bobyaf presented are no where to be found in Catholicism, why? Because they weren't by the Catholic Church. I know for a fact that people have made up documents and passed them off as Catholic documents and posted them on websites and people like you go there and believe that those are Catholic documents when infact they aren't.

And the point we are stressing is that the real Catholic documents and beliefs are rooted in scripture. If you guys will be truthful and logical and approaching the issue you will see so as well. I saw so and so have millions of protestant converts to Catholicism. I converted to Catholicism when I decided to stop going through hateful websites and went straight to the source. I went to a Catholic Church.
And dear you do need someone to explain it for you, sometimes our eyes can be misleading especially when we expect to see something. When you go looking for something you may find it even when it isn't there.

Instead of approaching this issue with us with an already made up mind, how about you actually reason with us and if our reasoning doesn't make sense to you then you can go on your way.

I will stress a point to you, that you do believe in what Catholics believe you just don't know it. If you wish for me to show you then I don't have a problem with that, as far as you promise to respect me as I promise to respect you.

It is not by force to be Catholic, and we don't go looking for trouble but be assured that we will defend the truth as we have done from the founding of the Church by Christ.

Most does not mean all. Now consider this, Christianity or Jesus, in any clear sense, without the usual Christian deductive process, is not mentioned in the Jewish Torah. Whereever you see "Jesus" name in the Torah, please direct us to it.

I really don't care for this discussion so pls do not even attempt to have any dialogue with me. But I saw this and will say that technically "Jesus" is in the Old Testament.

But to show that to you, I will have to go to the original name of Yeshua. In greek the name is Joshua, and well Joshua is in the Old Testament. So Yeshua, Joshua, Jesus, all the same name are in the Old Testament.

Just wanted to point that out, but you can carry on with your discussions.

morpheus24:
And they also believe and sanctioned the Inquistion, the changing of the Sabbath, The crusades, The rape and plunder of Africa , The burning of so called witches and heathen, The taxation of poor peasants for the building of the great church, Jobless bishops, deacons and arch deacons going up and down the world plundering loot and demolishing the life of poor people,

This is the Peter the rock you have built your belief in. Good luck to you. I want a front seat when the world ends cause i am pretty certain I wil be hysterical.

Thank you. We will all have front seats. So no worries.

Why are you coming to us if you want to know God's will.

Go to God. As a 31 year old you should already know what it takes in a marriage and should have an idea of what you expect. Does she fit into your expectations?

But please go to God. It really is that simple.

chika98:
Story story. I no get strength to argue now so make i leave am

Sweetheart it is the same belief. They have the seven sacraments just as we do and they are: Baptism, Holy Communion, Confirmation, Holy Matrimony, Holy Orders, Confession and absolution, Anointing of the sick. Those are the sacraments in the Catholic church. They also believe in the real presence in the eucharist. They also believe in saints.
They celebrate Mass as Catholics do.
They have the same creed as we do, and yes in the creed they believe in the Catholic church. The creeds are the apostles' creed, the nicene creed, and the athanasian creed. They haven't changed since the Church adopted the creed.

They view Mary as the Mother of God, even though majority of the lower anglicans try to avoid that issue. And yes they pray to her as well as the other saints.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglican_Marian_theology

So like I said, they have the same beliefs, they just answer to the King of England through the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Anglicans are Catholics, they're just afraid of standing up for their beliefs.

rotimy:
Thanks for the clarifications but I totally disagree with you that I owe seagodess an apology or that I am being rude to her! Infact, she is the one that owe us, her brethren, an apology. And no explanation on her part will justify the name, seagoddess! It glorifies demons in the sea and she can't bear it and be talking about favourite saints in heaven.

She owes no one an apology. You do not know the reasons for her using that as her screen name. I use Lady as a screen name because of the song by Fela Kuti, my friends teased me with that song because they said I act exactly like the description of Lady in the song. That has been my nickname ever since.
You have absolutely no idea the background of that name. You are here passing judgment without knowing the girl or her background and her reason for choosing that name.

You do owe her an apology. It is not up to you to judge her.

chika98:
Oh dear, they are very different

Oh dear they really aren't

That there are hmosexuals in the anglican fold does not mean we are all homosexuals.
we pray for those who are involved that God will give them repentant hearts. that as it may be, caused the fracas between the church of nigeria and other provinces in the communion. we of the church of nigeria cannot and will not accept anything that contradicts God's command to His children.

Sweetheart the difference between the anglican and catholic church is that we answer to the See of Peter (a position instituted by Christ) and you guys answer to the King of England. Our beliefs are not different.

even ur church calls itself catholic. they know what catholic means. the lutherans call themselves catholic too, they know that the catholic church is not a denomination. It has and will always be THE CHURCH.

So people can still be as unobjective as this?!!

Wait o ttalks, I didn't respond to this properly.

Do you mean to tell me that if I want to research christianity, I should go to a muslim website? Is that what you're saying?

OLAADEGBU:
I know you guys are in self denial, burying your heads in the sand like the proverbial ostrich. Since you have doubted, denied, disobeyed and replaced the Word of God with your church traditions and refuse to see the realities that are so glaring around you I don't expect you to see reason in what this man who had been operating in the powers of darkness but who have now been translated into the kingdom of the Son of God, exposing every evil work of darkness, said. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit of God is telling him today because tomorrow may be too late.

You guys only make claims and cannot back it up. You say we are confused, Ok we accept now show us the way. Answer our questions, and when we post something be a good scholar and tell us where and how we went wrong, simply dodging will not change anything.

If I am going to leave catholicism and move to 33000 sects fighting for the right to proper interpretation of the Bible I will need for you to logically explain things to me. Simply calling the Church the LovePeddler of babylon will do you and us no good. Posting Bible passages from no where will do no good, afterall the devil quotes the Bible too. How am I supposed to know you are not the devil trying to mislead me? Look the only way I will know you are not the devil is by testing you o, so please explain things logically thank you.

@Chikito1

You are of the impression that catholic tradition isn't the Bible. SO let me spell it out for you, CATHOLIC TRADITION IS THE BIBLE. Now if you feel my statement is wrong, I will happily oblige you in a discussion.

@Olaadegbu

I have seen what you wanted me to see, now engage in the discussion with me and save me from the devil please. I wrote things above, now talk about it.

I see you want a fight but I have no time for ignorant, illogical, and prideful people. If you feel you know the truth then congratulations continue to wallow in it, while I continue to wallow in my foolishness. Thank you, now kindly leave.

bindex:
What logic are you talking about? The one that says kill your family members if they try to lead you away from worshiping the bibleGod or the one that says you should maim your body parts if it causes you to sin? They misinterpret the bible? So only the RCC really knows how to interpret the bible? I am presently reading the bible and koran from the beggining to understand the two books. I am now in the book of Judges in the bible and all I can say is WOW what a book and what a God. As for the Koran all I can say is Na wah.

i hope u've studied the culture and history of the isrealites, that is the only way you'll be able to understand the bible. i hope u understand the symbolisms they use when narrating a story, without that u wouldn't understand the Bible.
The Bible isn't just something that can be picked up and read as a novel, you can do so, but u won't get anything out of it. You'll be very lost.
That is the reason why it cannot be interpreted by anyone privately, they can skew it into whatever. That is the mistake protestants make. They disregard the Old Testament a lot.
When interpreted correctly the Bible is not filled with contradictions.
Oh another thing, keep in mind that God is a God of justice not a God of roses, so there are things you will read that you wouldn't like, he may not fit your idea of God, but that's just it, he isn't supposed to fit your idea of God, you're supposed to understand him as he is. You can accept it or not. No one can do wrong against him and expect to get away with it.

If you can properly interpret Genesis 1-3, you will be able to understand everything else. It will be hard but it's understandable. Believe me it is no different from today. They did what we do today, only they did it differently. And if I were to bring it to today you will agree with it too.

As for the Koran, I have no comments that is not my problem.

But I will still ask you to leave us alone in our foolishness o wise one.

One more thing, don't read the Bible to look for what you want to see. You may mislead yourself.

bindex:
Leave what? Thats what they believe, am I wrong? go through their post, they have more than enough evidence from the bible to show you that the RCC is an extension of satan out to decieve the true christains while you also have more than enough evidence from the same bible to show them that they are wrong and only the RCC is right. Whats wrong with you guys?

i meant leave us alone. they have no evidence, they cannot support their claim with logic. they quote with no explanation. they misinterpret the Bible. but this isn't ur fight, poke ur nose in ur business only, this isn't it. bye

bindex:
OK I will but please try and convince davidylan that the pope is not an agent of satan.

leave

bindex:
I thought the message was for the women of a particular region alone?(women of corinthians or is it damascus) bunch of confused goons.

we have acknowledged our confusion and we choose to stay that way, now pls u in all ur intelligence leave us fools to continue, thank you.

bindex:
The Protestants believe that the Pope and the leadership of the RCC are the devils, and here you are talking about the devil that is the protestant church, when will you deluded freaks get it that this whole mumbo jumbo is all nonsense? you guys can not agree on the basic doctrine of your faith, does that not tell you guys something? when you think about all the extraordinary, un-provable, superstitious, never seen by human eye things that you have to have to force yourself to rationalize and believe in to be a Christian, it becomes comically irrational. You have to believe that a divine entity dictated words verbatim to simple ancient men that has a story about a cosmic born Jewish zombie that can make you live forever if you telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in all of humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a forbidden magical tree.

This divine entity is all present and all powerful but can’t be “present” around things like sin nor is it “powerful” enough to withstand sin. It is responsible for creating billions of imperfect humans, blames them for being imperfect despite hardening their minds sometimes by himself, sends his son to be killed by the imperfect humans to make up for their imperfections so that just a few out of the billions will be spared the fire and brimstone that he created for these imperfect humans that he loves so much even though it is written that he onced killed all of them except a drunkard and his disfunctional family that he decided to spare, because they were not perfect enough to admit to their imperfection or believe in the story that the bibleGod sent himself to be killed by himself to save humans from himself.

You have to believe in only one God that is not really one at all, but a three separate part god that no one can possibly understand but just overlooks and accepts. Then have to believe in another evil God like being “Satan” along with demons, angels, saints, elders, heaven, hell, purgatory, unicorns, dragons, supernatural healing(that only take place behind closed doors), prophesizing and a host of unrealistic biblical miracles that pop like magic from a magic wand. Man-made objects like churches, statues, crosses, Bibles, snakes, bread and grape juice become exalted and sacred as if they were pieces of the imaginary God on earth.

In the eyes of many Christians I am the devil, and many hate me as Muslims hate infidels. Many will think I am possessed by some imaginary Satan god of evil. This whole saga is WOW.

Congratulations, you have stated ur opinion, now pls leave us in our delusion, it is our choice, thank you

hey all, thank you so much for your prayers, you are all also in my prayers. I offer up your intentions to Our Lord Almighty.

Jesus Loves you, Mary Loves you, I love you.

I now right. considering the fact that the RCC is in a class of unrighteousness of its own.
you're only "agreeing" because as an RCC member you've been spoonfed to distrust anything protestant and not because you have any biblical basis for your position so no we both are not in agreement as regards this issue.

Hahaha Davidy read the above posts I am not the only one that sees it in you. You are so catholic and don't even know it yet. I don't distrust anything protestant, and no catholic does, that's all in your imagination. But I understand I can't help you out in what you believe. If you want to believe in conspiracy theories, go ahead, I am not the one galloping through the threads and judging people left and right.

I like Joel Osteen out of all three if I were to choose, why? Because he always smiles, but sometimes when I listen to his message I don't agree with the way he brings it across. He gives false hopes, sometimes the truth of judgment is what we all need to wake. I think his parishioners are day dreaming most of the time. But I love the man, he seems genuine and sincere and is always smiling.

T.D. Jakes gets on my nerves, I heard him on the radio one time, so long ago, and with what he was saying I didn't believe a preacher could say things like that, I have to find it and refresh my memory, and I think he feeds off the needs of women to be loved or to go through drama and that's where he's getting his money from. Dude sickens me.

I don't agree with Joyce Meyer, well because women are not supposed to be in the pulpit, I do like that she goes to India to help convert them to Christianity.

What don't I like most about all three is specifically that those who wish to be disciples, especially pastors must let go of things of this world

rotimy:
@ Lady. We thank God so much for the diversity of spirituality in our Church. I am always amazed whenever I pray with various groups that their prayers are fervent and powerful. But, I am also worried that some Catholics are stuck on few prayers to one saint or their other and hardly know the joy of spontanous prayers to Jesus Christ.

@ Pls we have to do 9 days novena to St. Jude{in charge of difficult cases} so that our sister will drop her username, SEA-GODDES. Though it her right and choice but I think a person that started a post like this should know the implication of giving the glory of God to Satan and his agent

Statements like this is what gives people the idea that we don't pray to Jesus directly. Even Catholics are confused on the idea that asking a saint to pray for you is praying to Jesus also. That saint is praying with you as you pray, it's like having a big prayer group, only it includes trillions of people

The mass itself is a prayer and the ultimate prayer of all, it is the greatest prayer and is prayed everyday to the Blessed Trinity. So no Catholic who attends mass is stuck on praying to one saint. Also, not one person can do all the prayers we have in the Church, we have massive prayers. My recommendation to everyone is to find a devotion and stick to it. My prayers other than mass are the rosary and the Little office of the Blessed Virgin Mary. I have a devotion to her and that's it. I love Saint Monica as she is my patron saint and I do seek her help in prayer every now and then, but I have a very busy life, so sticking in time to pray every prayer I want to pray is really hard.

Even the rosary isn't compulsory, you can say the divine mercy chaplet, it's shorter and quicker. My point is just pick a devotion and stick to it. Lectio divina seems to be good too, my mind just wonders too much. haha.

The only compulsory prayer is the mass o. But it helps to find a devotion and stick to it. It doesn't have to be to Mary.

As for the 9 day novena, you are being redundant, novena means 9 anyway, so no need to add the 9 days in front. But to do a novena because seagoddess chose that name is ridiculous. You have no idea why she chose it, it doesn't imply that she is mammy water, and you are being rude to her. You owe her an apology in my opinion.

Tell her that God wants her to take the drugs.
Look drugs are not simple, and God provides knowledge to scientists to help in discovering elements in our earth that can assist us in living. I am sick and tired of people, stating such things as "God will cure me without medicine"
He is well capable of doing that, but they are undermining God already by saying that God cannot use people and matter to cure. He did it plenty of times in the New Testament.

Tell her she is meant to take the drugs and that they don't undermine God, but only proves his mighty love.

I am yet to find a Catholic who can explain how the church of the living God can kill and maim millions of bible-believing Christians and still be seen as the true church.

Beats me

I am also yet to find a 'bible-believing" Christian who can explain the killing and maim of millions of Catholic Christians and still be seen as the true church.

beats me.

Your hypocrisy stinks.

Carlosein:
lady, are you still alive after all this?

i absolutely love it too. good work (and simple logic too )

I absolutely refuse to let stupidity and the devil win. I don't have much tolerance for illogical people which is what I am encountering on this board lately, but I can't stop fighting for the truth.

2) Salvation through good works.

This is the most ridiculous one I think you protestants cling to, seriously what are you supposed to do with your faith, have it and sit on your arses all day?

The good works the Church is talking about is living works, works done through faith. It is not works by an atheist or non believer. It is works by a christian.

But let me show you through the Bible, how ridiculous you guys are.

Matthew 25:31-46

31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. 32 And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. 34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. 37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? 39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? 40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. 44 Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? 45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

Notice that the ones that didn't do good works knew Jesus as Lord, they had faith, but didn't act on their faith. They got condemned. The Church is telling its memebrs that faith alone is not suffice, you still need to put your faith in action. You need to do good works, or abi na bad works una want make we do?

Here's another passage

James 1:21-23
21 Wherefore casting away all uncleanness, and abundance of naughtiness, with meekness receive the ingrafted word, which is able to save your souls. 22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23 For if a man be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he shall be compared to a man beholding his own countenance in a glass.

Put faith into action.

James 1:27
Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one's self unspotted from this world

James 2:14-26
14 What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him? 15 And if a brother or sister be naked, and want daily food:

16 And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit? 17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. 18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without works; and I will show thee, by works, my faith. 19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? 25 And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way?

26 For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.


The problem here is that Martin Luther challenged the Bible and unfortunately you all do not know this. He claimed that James was wrong and should not have been included in the Bible, infact there were books from the Bible that he removed other than the ones in the Old Testament.

The Catholic Church's stance on salvation through good works is not just merely doing good works without believing in God. It is doing good works in respeonse to your faith. When the Church speaks of good works she speaks of it assuming that the people reading it already have faith in Christ, she did not tell that to atheist. You are already supposed to have faith and then do good works.

OK I am going to stop here and give you a chance to address the above post as well as this one. We'll move from topic to topic.

Now tell me, whether it makes sense to learn the truth from an organisation that has been accused of being a counterfeit or to go to the source of Truth Himself and compare the original with the counterfeit and find out how it stands up to scrutiny?

It makes sense when the truth himself is that organisation or have u forgotten that the Church is the body of Christ? It makes perfect sense when the truth himself commissioned that organisation to preach the truth. It makes perfect sense when the truth (Bible) calls that organisation the "foundation and pillar of truth?"


It is illogical when you go to a website that doesn't hold the actual documents it claims to have. I understand you think they are telling the truth, but the documents that they claim to have that shows that the Church is of the devil doesn't exist. I have been asking for the actual documents and haven't seen one.
The difference between you and I is that I actually do my research and make sure that the information I am receiving is actually the truth. I don't just go to an anti-catholic website and receive things at face value.

The quote by Pope Pius hasn't been found till date. Doesn't that tell you something?

The link suggested used your own source which is the Catechism and compared it with the Bible to see where and how it stood or did not stand the test of scrutiny.  Don't be like the proverbial ostrich that buries its head in the sand and hopes that reality would go away.

Ok so I went to that site, and I wanted to see what these so called 37 doctrines against the Bible and I found none. I only found a website made by people who don't understand the Bible that they cling to. I will take it all one by one. I am so excited I need to calm down, this is going to be great. I can't wait to show you how you guys deny your own faith indirectly. Oh this so good. This is going to take a while because there's so much to go through, but please be patient, I will definitely address these issues. I am also counting on you to actually truthfully, logically, answer my questions o. I want you to tell me your faith and I will show you that the faith you profess is the same as the Church's teachings.

1) Salvation through the Church.
I saw the scriptures that they posted but the problem with most people is that they don't look at the whole Bible when coming to a conclusion. I believe the same Bible that said those passages posted there also said.

1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth

If the Church is not able to save it wouldn't be the foundation and pillar of truth. Truth is God himself dear, keep that in mind.

But I want to point out to you that the Church is Christ himself. If salvation does not come through the Church then it doesn't come through Christ. For the Church is the body of Christ.
Let's look at St. Paul's conversion.
Acts 9:3-5
3 And as he went on his journey, it came to pass that he drew nigh to Damascus; and suddenly a light from heaven shined round about him. 4 And falling on the ground, he heard a voice saying to him: Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5 Who said: Who art thou, Lord? And he: I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. It is hard for thee to kick against the goad.

Remember that Paul was persecuting the Church, and that Christ was already ascended. But here we see that Christ appeared to Paul and asked Paul why he is persecuting him? If the Church isn't Christ then Christ was lying or delusional when he asked Paul why he was persecuting him. Christ said "I am Jesus whom you persecute" and we all know that Paul was persecuting the Church.

So truly if we receive salvation through the Church then we receive salvation through Christ for the Church is Christ and Christ is the Church. A body is never separated from its head unless Olaadegbu wants to tell me that his head will be in abeokuta and his body in Jand. It is one and the same.

But let me carry on about the Church and its infallibility. Since the Church is the body of Christ the Church must be infallible or else Christ in not infallible. Now just because the Church is infallible doesn't mean that the members will also be infallible, and yes that includes the Pope. The Pope as a man is fallible but the Papal office is infallible. We would continue that later. But scripture on the Church's infallibility. I will start from the Old Testament.

Isaiah 35:8 And a path and a way shall be there, and it shall be called the holy way: the unclean shall not pass over it, and this shall be unto you a straight way, so that fools shall not err therein.

Isaiah 54:13-17 All thy children shall be taught of the Lord: and great shall be the peace of thy children. 14 And thou shalt be founded in justice: depart far from oppression, for thou shalt not fear; and from terror, for it shall not come near thee. 15 Behold, an inhabitant shall come, who was not with me, he that was a stranger to thee before, shall be joined to thee.

16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and bringeth forth an instrument for his work, and I have created the killer to destroy. 17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper: and every tongue that resisteth thee in judgment, thou shalt condemn. This is the inheritance of the servants of the Lord, and their justice with me, saith the Lord.

this prophecy refers to the Church as the Holy Way where sons will be taught by God and they will not err. The Church has been given the gift of infallibility when teaching about faith and morals, where her sons are taught directly by God and will not err. This gift of infallibility means that the Church is prevented from teaching error by the power of the Holy Spirit (it does not mean that Church leaders do not sin!)

Acts 9:2 And asked of him letters to Damascus, to the synagogues: that if he found any men and women of this way, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.

Acts 22:4 And I persecuted this Way even to the death, binding and committing to prisons both men and women.

Acts 24:14 But this I admit to thee, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, so I serve the God of my fathers; believing all things that are written in the Law and in the Prophets.

the early Church is identified as the "Way" prophesied in Isaiah 35:8 where fools will not err therein

Matthew 16: 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it
Jesus promises the gates of Hades would never prevail against the Church. This requires that the Church teach infallibly. If the Church did not have the gift of infallibility, the gates of Hades and error would prevail. Also, since the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed up until the Reformation, those who follow the Protestant reformers call Christ a liar by saying that Hades did prevail.

Matt 18:17-18 17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. 18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
the Church (not Scripture) is the final authority on questions of the faith. This demands infallibility when teaching the faith. She must be prevented from teaching error in order to lead her members to the fullness of salvation. Jesus didn't say consult the Bible, he said consult the Church. Jesus didn't give the Bible the power to bind and loose, he gave the Church that authority.

Luke 10:16 He who hears you hears me, he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me
Jesus was speaking to his disciples and not the Bible here. Jesus was speaking to his Church. Jesus is very clear that the bishops of the Church speak with Christ's infallible authority.

1 & 2 Peter - for example, Peter denied Christ, he was rebuked by his greatest bishop (Paul), and yet he wrote two infallible encyclicals. Further, if Peter could teach infallibly by writing, why could he not also teach infallibly by preaching? And why couldn't his successors so teach as well? (answer this question pls)

Oh I absolutely looooveeee this one.
Ephesians 3:10 in order that through the Church there be made known to Principalities and the Powers in the heavens the manifold wisdom of God.
Through the Church (not the Bible o), but through the Church, God's wisdom is made known. the wisdom of God is known, even to the intellectually superior angels, through the Church (not the Scriptures). This is an incredible verse, for it tells us that God's infinite wisdom comes to us through the Church. For that to happen, the Church must be protected from teaching error on faith and morals (or she wouldn't be endowed with the wisdom of God).

In Ephesians 5:22-27 I need not write the verses cause I'm sure you're familiar with it, it talks about the Church being Christ's bride. Christ is the head of the Church, His Bride, for which He died to make it Holy and without blemish. There is only one Church, just as Christ only has one Bride. And we already know that earlier in chapter 4 St. Paul talks about the Unity of the body. There is no way that all the Churches around the world form one body as a bride of Christ. Not with all the contradictory teachings they have against each other. They all have different beliefs and they all fight to claim that they have the proper interpretation of the Bible, how can they all be one body of Christ when they are not united. The hands and legs of a body do not go separate ways do they? There is no way that these churches could be the body of Christ, they do not live up to it.

Eph. 5:32- Paul calls the Church a "mystery." This means that the significance of the Church as the kingdom of God in our midst cannot be understood by reason alone. Understanding the Church also requires faith. "Church" does not mean a building of believers. That is not a mystery. Non-Catholics often view church as mere community, but not the supernatural mystery of Christ physically present among us.

1 John 4:6 We are of God. He that knoweth God, heareth us. He that is not of God, heareth us not. By this we know the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
John writes that whoever knows God “listens to us” (the bishops and successors to the apostles). Then John writes “This is the way we discern truth and error. John does not say “reading the Bible is the way we discern truth and error.” But if listening to mere human beings helps us discern truth and error, God would have had to endow his chosen leaders with the special gift of infallibility, so that they would be prevented from teaching error.

Now I am not saying that we shouldn't read the Bible, by all means read the Bible, afterall it is this Bible that tells us that the authority lies with the Church

Matt. to Rev. - we must also note that not all Christian doctrines are explicit in Scripture (for example, the dogma of the Blessed Trinity). However, infallibility is strongly inferred from the foregoing passages. Non-Catholic Christians should ask themselves why they accept the Church's teaching on the three persons of the Trinity, the two natures of Christ in one divine person, and the New Testament canon of Scripture (all defined by the Catholic Church), but not other teachings regarding the Eucharist, Mary, the saints, and purgatory?

I am done with one. I think I addressed other issues here though, not too sure.

You guys love to take credit for what God in His Sovereign Power has inspired through His holy prophets who were Jews. God will not share His glory with anyone, it is dangerous. The only contribution to the Bible you made was the addition of the apocrypha and the subtraction of some of the decalogue, and you know the reward awaiting you guys for adding, removing or changing the Word of God.

Please tell us how we added the apocrypha and subtracted the decalogue, or is the decalogue not in the Bible again?

Oga pls you do know that the apocrypha were used by the Jews right? But the holier than thou Jews didn't accept them as truth and infact it was when Christianity came to be and Judaism got threatened that the apocrypha were removed from their book.

So if Jesus thought the apocrypha was good enough to be used to study who are you to say that we can't?

Infact it is those of you that have removed books from the Bible that will be judged?

Oga pls how do you know the books in the Bible today are truly meant to be in the Bible? Why do you call them scripture today?