₦airaland Forum

jln115:
HAHAHAHAHAHA dont bull sh.t yourself, everybody knows you dont have evidence of 2000 CIA mercenaries that fought in SA, in fact no one those because its not true!

andrewza:
Proof for anything you said?

Msauza:
[citation needed]

andrewza:
And your proof? And again from where. 2000 people don't spawn from thin air.

andrewza:
Mercenaries? From where.

jln115:
Firstly if it wasnt for your poor comprehension skills i might have understood your comment better.

I dont want to be a grammar Nazi but im guessing you meant:
"you lost over 11000 troops and CIA mercenaries with logistical ,and equipment support from an American base in Zaire."

Secondly if you meant what has been said in the above sentence, are you then saying the CIA lost 2000 men?and can you prove this claim with any citations?

jln115:
Yes we never attempted to invade Cuba!

Patchesagain:
Your sources say 10 000 dead and 500 tanks destroyed. By using the source you confirm it.

What invasion of Angola?

We never had any major plans for such - we still however launched no less than 35 major incursions into Southern Angola to support UNITA and to fight PLAN.

And when did the Cubans defeat us? Operation Savannah?

Patchesagain:
Exept as I have just shown your sources contradict what you are saying.

The Cubans flushed us out during OP Savannah? Citation needed

The SADF never had any intention of invading Angola - we launched incursions to support UNITA and to find and destroy PLAN bases. All 35 of these operations were succesfull - we never lost a battle.

jln115:
"where did I say you lost 11,000 men?"

Patchesagain:
get me an independent source which didn't originate from the cuban military writers desperately trying to hide their humiliation.

jln115:
"get me an independent"
I provided 3 sources, go look them up.
Secondly now where in your article does it state we lost 11000 men
Lastly how do i know your source is independent?

Patchesagain:
Later, in September, the Angolans were defeated by the combined force of South Africans and Angolan rebels in the battle of the Lomba River, according to accounts by all sides.

With the Angolans in retreat, the South Africans and the Savimbi forces then tried to capture Cuito Cuanavale, the stronghold from which the Government offensive had been mounted. But the Angolans, backed by Cubans and Soviet advisers, put up a spirited defense, and the South Africans decided that the town was not worth the casualties that its capture would require.
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/12/world/south-africa-s-strategy-on-angola-falls-short-enhancing-cubans-role.html

Your own source destroys your entire argument.

Quito was an anciliary objective - and it was easyer and less costly to knock out the Cuban/Angolan airfeild there through the use of long range artillery

jln115:
We lost 1700 odd men in the whole 23 years of the Border war, i provided 3 sources that prove these claims, go read them!

jln115:
So you only have 1 source!Nice
I provided 3.

Patchesagain:
This is hilarious.

Same guy who claims we lost 10 000 men and 500 tanks and aircraft?

jln115:
Firstly mate, look at the date: JAN 11 1988
Secondly the article barley even touches on any Border War events and definitely not any ,were it says they demolished the SADF!

jln115:
"Your press coined the phrase "humiliating defeat" as a result of that war."
Which South African press? and when?

jln115:
Its ok the rest of the world thinks otherwise than your socalled umpire of world press.

"Your own press think otherwise."
Uhm....No they dont!!

jln115:
Ok, if that pit means the utter annihilation of Cuban and Swapo forces in Angola, than yes we havnt been able to crawl out of that pit.

jln115:
The Biafra war, no matter how badly you want to compare it to the border war, will never ever ever be even a rain drop in the ocean compared to the border war, the faster you accept this, the better it will be for your emotional state!!!!

agaugust:
You want to spoil their Easter party this weekend in Soweto
.

jln115:
"Clearly both sources are completely different."

Word for Word, sentence for sentence, paragraph for paragraph, they are exactly the same!!!!!!

"South africa went to war to encourage apartheid rule"
WHY??there were no whites in Angola, why the hell would we encourage apartheid in Angola??

South Africa went to war for the same reason all the other countries went to war during the Cold War, TO STOP COMMUNISM!!!
And we succeeded!

"Should you have me translate the source to Zulu for you?"

Naa.... Dont understand Zulu fully yet, still learning!
You could translate it to Afrikaans if you really want to.

jln115:
"That a portion of both sources have similar details makes them the same?"

Dude both sources are exactly the same!!! Even the wording and sentences are exactly the same!!

"then can you kindly tell us what they got in return"

Our objective was to stop communism in Southern Africa!
Is Angola a communist state?
Is Namibia a communist state?
Is South Africa communist state?

If your answer is NO to all three questions then you have your answer if the SANDF/SADF succeeded or not!

BTW we were a stone through away from Luanda, if it wasnt for the US Angola wouldve been a South African colony!

Patchesagain:
The president did not fly in to do any such thing

South Africa is not re-writing history - it is certain elements within the black community who are desperatly trying to cover up the fact that their liberation movements posed no military threat and were nothing more than targets to be shot for the SADF. Confirmed by the fact that the ANC leaves the history about SADF involvement in Angola untouched - they have enough dignity to provide respect where respect is due.

South Africa offered Namibian independance in the mid-1970's - provided the Cubans meet our terms and withdraw from Angola (which they ended up doing anyway)

9000 men and 500 tanks? Are you high? We only lost 1791 men in the entire 23 year war.

Lezz, you are so utterly ridiculous, inferior even to augugbaby.

Patchesagain:
Zuma's visit is nothing but statesmanship.

History of the border war remains untouched - and considering the way it is taught in South Africa, under ANC governemnt, I would say that our version is pretty accurate.

andrewza:
500 tanks and aircraft. We don't have that many tanks and aircraft.

jln115:
"Both sources are clearly diffrent in origin and in details."
Uhm....NO!!!! they are exactly the same!

http://monthlyreview.org/2013/04/01/the-military-defeat-of-the-south-africans-in-angola/

"Between October 1987 and June 1988, in the fiercest conventional battles on African soil since Erwin Rommel was defeated at El Amien, the South African Defence Forces (SADF) fought pitched tank and artillery battles with the Angolan army (FAPLA, the People’s Armed Forces for the Liberation of Angola) and its Cuban supporters at Cuito Cuanavale. This small base located in southeastern Angola became important in the military history of Africa, for there the South African army, supposedly the best on the continent, was trapped with its tanks and artillery and held down more than 300 miles from its bases in Namibia.

Failing to take Cuito Cuanavale with over 9,000 soldiers, even after announcing that it had done so, losing air superiority, and faced with mutinies among black troops and a high casualty rate among whites, the South Africans reached such a desperate situation that President Botha had to fly to the war zone when the operational command of the SADF broke down."


"With Cuban reinforcements, the Angolans withstood major assaults on January 23, February 25, and March 23. The South Africans were repulsed with heavy losses, and the Angolan/Cuban forces seized the initiative. For the first time since 1981, the Angolan army was able to reoccupy the area adjacent to Namibia. So confident were the Angolans and Cubans, that in the space of less than three months they built two air strips to consolidate their recapture of the southern province of Cunene. Trapped by the rainy season, bogged down by the terrain, and encircled, the South Africans made one desperate attempt to break out on June 27 and were again defeated. One South African newspaper called the defeat “a crushing humiliation.”"


"The First Defeat of South Africa, 1975–1976

The anticolonial struggle in Angola, which led to the 1974 coup in Portugal, was a turning point for Southern Africa. South Africa intervened with CIA support by land, sea, and air to stop the MPLA from coming to power. The Angolans asked for Cuban help to defeat the invasion led by South Africans, Zairian regulars, and CIA mercenaries. "

http://www.pambazuka.net/en/category.php/features/48547

"Between October 1987 and June 1988, in one of the fiercest conventional battles fought on African soil, the troops of the South African Defence Forces (SADF) fought pitched tank and artillery battles with the Angolan army (FAPLA) and her Cuban supporters at Cuito Cuanavale. This small base located in Southeastern Angola (in the province of Cuando Cubango) became important in the military history of Africa, for the South African apartheid army, supposedly one of the better equipped armies in Africa was trapped more than three hundred miles from its bases in Namibia, a territory which it was illegally occupying.

Failing to take Cuito Cuanavale with over 9,000 soldiers even after announcing to the world that Cuito Cuanavale had fallen; losing its superiority in the air; and faced with mutinies from the black troops of the pressed ganged battalions, the operational command of the SADF broke down."

"With Cuban reinforcements, the Angolan fighters withstood major assaults by the South African military on January 23, 1988, February 25 and finally on March 23. The South Africans were repulsed with heavy losses as the Angolan/Cuban forces seized the military initiative. The Angolan army, for the first time since Operation Protea (the code name for the conventional attack by the SADF) in 1981, was able to reoccupy the area of Southern Angola adjacent to the Namibian border. In the space of less than three months the engineering units and construction workers of the Angolan/Cuban forces were able to build two airstrips defended with anti aircraft weapons to consolidate their recapture of the Southern province of Cunene. Bogged down with their conventional weapons by the terrain and rainy season, the South African army made one desperate attempt to break the encirclement on June 27, 1988. They were once again trounced, with the Angolan pilots in firm in control of Angolan airspace."

"THE FIRST DEFEAT OF THE APARTHEID ARMY

Once Portuguese fascism collapsed in April 1974 the forces of US imperialism and the army of apartheid had to come out in full force if they were to perpetuate external control over Angola. The apartheid South African army intervened militarily in 1975 to stop the MPLA from coming to power after the poor of Sambizanga routed the FLNA forces allied with the army of Mobutu. At this point, the Angolans invited the Cubans to help defeat the invading apartheid, the Zairian army regulars, and the mercenaries employed by the CIA."




Your proving yourself a bigger id1ot i ever could of imagined!!

jln115:
DUDE!!!! the fact that you dont read your sources before posting them is really embarrassing, if you read your second source you wouldve seen that its exactly the same as your first source, thus you have yet to provide more than one source to support your claims.

Here are some more sources for you:
Steenkamp, Willem (1989). South Africa's border war, 1966-1989. Gibraltar: Ashanti Pub. ISBN 0620139676.
Scholtz, Leopold (2013). The SADF in the Border War 1966-1989. Cape Town: Tafelberg. ISBN 978-0-624-05410-8.

Patchesagain:
hahahaha

what a load of sh1t

Where are the "heavy" casualties they claim?

During the entire 23 year bush war South Africa suffered only 1791 casualties.

Thats around 80 men per year

How did we attack Quito with a river between us and the town? As augbuggub says we are a "dry land only army". Lets take it one step further - if our plan was to capture the town, why did we attack in such a way that puts the river between us and the town? There were multiple axis's of advance that would not have a river obstacle!

Also, if we planned on capturing the town, why did we wait until the Cubans had masses a freaking armored brigade there? Why didnt we attack earlyer or just wait until the Cubans sent their Brigade east against UNITA and then attack?

Why did Castro have the Cuban General commanding the operation executed?

Why were the Cubans unable to launch one single offensive against us? 60 000 men and not once did they try to directly attack us!

More blithering nonsense from some deluded clown.

jln115:
Heres your source, now do me a favour and go read it.
https://sites.google.com/site/sabushwarsite/interesting

EVarn:
lol.I really do enjoy your punchlines....hehehehe