haddeylium: Lol. You think Abiogenesis is a mystery now but you believe it nevertheless. What makes you different from people that believe in a mystery diety? -To me, it takes more faith to believe in an evolutionary theory than Skydaddy.
What don't you leave everyone to choose their mystery?
Where did you see me say I believe it? It requires no belief, it is either true or not true, investigation will reveal that.
Did you see me say nobody should believe in sky daddy?
DappaD: Abiogenesis involves living organisms arising from non-living organisms and developing from simple to complex cell structures over a considerable amount of time—which is basically evolution & laughable if you ask me. Even scientists agree that the process of abiogenesis remains a mystery—yet this is the belief that most atheists have adopted as a substitute for their belief in the Creation theory.
Wrong. Abiogenesis is about how hypothetically life came from non living matter. It says nothing about going from simple to complex cell structure.
Abiogenesis may yet be a mystery but it holds more potential explanation than a tale of magic and talking snakes.
needanswer: Wrong! If you are going to sound unscientific it's fine, but I am not interested in lecturing you on that. And my topic heading isn't drawing any PARALLELS but citing Dark energy as an example.
You are the one saying scientists believe in dark energy, that is a most unscientific language.
needanswer: Wrong! You are the one grouping them in the same class rather than seeing it only as an example.
Your topic heading says it all. You attempting to draw parallels between the dark energy hypothesis and faith in a god. You even go ahead to say scientists believe in dark energy, which they most certainly don't but you use that phrase so that you can get your point across. Scientists posit dark energy because they can something affecting the universe, that is totally not belief as you intend it to mean.
DappaD: You really don’t get it, do you? Even the abiogenesis theory that claims to explain the origin of life still has evolution intertwined into its mix but you’re not ready for that discussion.
needanswer: At least we can agree on one thing, which is - it's not a god of the gaps argument. As for the "fallacy of false equivalence", I don't stand on that ground either. Dark energy is a natural phenomenon and not equivalent to God in any way, there is no comparison.
I literal have to re-explain my simple logical point. This is it; just because something can't be proved by been seen or measured or both doesn't mean it doesn't exist, AS LONG AS YOU CAN STILL PERCEIVE IT IN OTHER WAYS WHICH MAY NOT BE DIRECTLY.
Dark energy is just a scenario to illustrate this in practical terms that science can relate too and not that it is an equivalent, so get my point correctly.
Your point is logically fallacious. Dark energy hypothesis is not in the same class with belief in a god. That is why it's falsely equivalent.
DappaD: Oh, so you deny the fact that the Big Bang never occurred and that the evolution theory is wrong? Good. Let other atheists speak for themselves since nobody made you class monitor here.
LoL! Says the guy who made a blatantly false blanket statement about atheists. BTW I didn't deny anything, I am pointing out your misinformation.
DappaD: OP check this out: Most atheists subscribe to the belief that life originated by blind chance i.e. through mindless evolution(which is absurd by the way, considering the complex nature of a cell) But the thing is, they do not have visual confirmation that evolution is actually a fact. Whatever the white men in suits and labcoats cook up as theories is what some swallow hook, line and sinker without bothering to check out the facts. Since they have never seen evolution occur with their two eyes—when asked to give proof of it—they come up with something like: “You don’t have to see it to confirm it’s true”. (I’m not kidding, that’s what a Nairalander by the name of “FatherofJe.sus” told me) What’s the implication of that statement? That the atheists also have faith that evolution is a fact, which begs the question: How are the atheists different from those who believe in a God since the atheists are also exercising faith in something they’ve never seen hoping that it’s true?
Wrong. The only people who believe that life began through evolution are the misinformed like you.
Image123: Nothing should really mean that you do not even reply na. But you go all the way out to type and post some cryptic youtube video. Keep learning, you must learn by force or faith.
needanswer: At least it's obvious God of the gaps argument is not my position. You can believe that if you want.
jamesid29: Maybe you should actually read the Wikipedia article itself chief.
What you are seeing from your screenshot are keywords used in search engine optimization (SEO). It's picking words from different places that matched what you searched for, that's why it's not coherent and the '...' signifies that there's a continuation to the sentence that has been cut of.
Below is the exert from the wiki article on the section on usage. You should still check out entire article though. Usage in referring to a type of argument The term God-of-the-gaps fallacy can refer to a position that assumes an act of God as the explanation for an unknown phenomenon, which is a variant of an argument from ignorance fallacy.[17][18] Such an argument is sometimes reduced to the following form:
There is a gap in understanding of some aspect of the natural world. Therefore, the cause must be supernatural. One example of such an argument, which uses God as an explanation of one of the current gaps in biological science, is as follows: "Because current science can't figure out exactly how life started, it must be God who caused life to start."
I'm guessing you might not still agree that you got the argument wrong. Was just pointing it out originally. You can disagree with OP's arguments on its own merits but it would be wrong to call it a god of the gaps argument,as he wasn't positing God as the explanation for why the universe's expansion is accelerating.
Actually he is correct. The gods of the gaps argument is actually not a really good theological argument. Positing that there must be a supernatural or divine explanation rather than a natural one for every phenomenon we currently do not understand is a bad theological stance to hold as dogma. Interestingly, Christians were actually the first people to use the term against other Christians who were quick to posit divine intervention rather than natural processes for unknown physical phenomena. Afterall it's pointless to investigate a universe that has no steady laws.
Okay I correct myself. It's not a god of the gaps argument even though its similar. However it is a fallacy of false equivalence. I will edit my inital post to reflect.
God of the gaps is a nonsense theory because God want us to learn how this world works. He created man to "dominate the earth and his environment" according to Genesis. Man can't dominate his environment if man doesn't learn all there is to learn about his environment and master the elements, can he? So that theory does not do it for me.
Jamesid29, this is the person you should be explaining to what god of the gaps fallacy means.
jamesid29: Actually, that's a bit of a misunderstanding of the gotg argument. The god of of the gaps argument is when one postulates a divine or supernatural intervention as an explanation for a phenomenon we currently do not understand. Basically using divine intervention as the explanatory power behind a phenomenon at the expense of a naturalistic explanation. For instance if OP had said, since we currently do not understand the mechanism behind dark energy, we can just use God as a stop guard and call it a day. I.E, we do not really understand what's causing the accelerating expansion of the universe so therefore, God must somehow be supernaturally involved in it. That would have been a god of the gaps argument. Another example would be something like; since we do not currently have a clue about the origin of life, there can't be any natural explanation for it so therefore it must have been purely a supernatural one. These are how the god of the gaps argument works boss. That was not what OP's arguments was doing.
What do you call it when someone tries to exploit a gap in scientific knowledge to explain a god?
needanswer: Wrong! I have trashed that already. This is not about God of the gaps, this is about believing something is true indirectly by what you can perceive about it, by the effects you observe that thing do. I have tons of such effects to back up God's existence, but you are rigidly contradicting science and the universe by going against such logic.
LoL! You try hard but do yourself in by reinforcing the fact that you are exploiting gaps in knowledge.
needanswer: I believe my use of the English grammar is easy to understand. Use the "perceive" in the context of Dark energy.
Knowledge of it can only be "perceive" indirectly from what is does and not directly because it can't be seen or measured.
They know something is there because they can perceive the effects, they just don't know what it is which why they call it dark energy. Same with dark matter. Comparing this to a god you have no evidence for is a god of the gaps fallacy because you are trying to insinuate your god into a gap in knowledge. You can't do that for some other well understood phenomenon because it is well understood and there is no gap to exploit.
needanswer: I am more than that, this is just an example.
The point i raised remains; you can believe something because you have enough information to perceive it even though you can't see it or measure it. That's the take away point.
If I can perceive it why do I need to believe? I don't know what something is, is different from from believing something that's not even there.
needanswer: Wrong! Not your "ignorance of dark energy" as you suggested but the scientific community "belief in dark energy" which they can only perceive but not see or measure. They belief it is real and it is very abundant and yet they still don't know anything about it.
Same difference. When they eventually find out more about it what happens to your argument?
jamesid29: You said his argument was a god of the gaps argument.
I thought you were saying that I said god of the gaps means lack of communication. Yes his argument is a god of the gaps argument, our ignorance of dark energy is equivalent to our ignorance of god. What happens when we find out what dark energy is do we also find god or will he shift to some other unknown?
needanswer: I am referring to atheists argument that believe in proof that can either be seen or measured or both.
As for your second paragraph, your tools are not the required ones to verify the existence of God. For that you need to refer to an expert in that field to help you uncover the right tools and how to use them to perceive God.
I have no other way of verification. If it cannot be tested with real world tools then it cannot be verified to exist.
needanswer: Wrong! Atheist arguments hold no factual evidence, because it relies strongly on human perception about what can be seen or measured. Going by human STANDARD of perception based on what can be seen or measured, something's like DARK ENERGY doesn't just make sense even though it resultant effect is present all over the universe and can't be denied.
The parameters by which you want to detect God are faulty and so won't yield any result, just the same way the parameters humans are trying to use to detect Dark energy is faulty. They need to come up with radical ideas that are literally OUT OF THIS WORLD, because dark energy is not of this world. So it applies with God, God tells us he reveals himself to those who search for him earnestly in SPIRIT and TRUTH.
First off, which atheist argument are you referring to?
Second, I obviously cannot test for imaginary properties nor can I use imaginary tools. Things like spirit are imaginary and have no basis in reality so I cannot rely on them for any kind of result.
I told you. How about your HCQ argument? Have your news sources not betrayed you by accepting I was right all along? Have they not accepted that it improved survivability by 200%? What other ways should I disgrace you? Have you also seen that Trump took Ivermectin when he was sick with COVID19 and not regeneron? Did I not tell you then? I told you why did you decide to believe him when he claimed he took something else?
Never argue with me again. Kiddo
I took a look at the news that is making you as giddy as a schoolgirl on weed. 78.2% of the people treated died, how does that sound like success to you? Also the study is not yet peer reviewed. You obviously did not read beyond the headlines and got all intoxicated like the zombie you are.
PeaceJoyLove: Bro, I understand you. I am not twisting it. I respect your view too. Maybe in those days, I would have started argument with you.
The word "skeptism" above is what I am working on. Bro to believe God is hard now. I am.saying it that many dont know God. Even those here abusing you. They dont.
That willingness that you can believe the existence is what I am saying you should stand on. And you will find the truth soon.
But what I saying is that...do not close your eyes to the possiblity there may be God. If you find proofs for the existence of some gods, my point is that they are on different levels. So, you will want to know the one at the top. And that one is God. Simple. So be opened minded. That's all.
As far as the Abrahamic god is concerned there is nothing to be open minded about. That god doesn't exist period. On the other hand, I am open minded about the general concept we describe as gods.
PeaceJoyLove: Bro, you are getting there gradually. Hmmmm! I can see you are shifting away gradually from atheism. You cannot just ignore what is happening around. It is not possible. All Nigerian atheists became one because they were disappointed with the one you called Abrahmic god. Their religious leaders presented God in a way that is false. And when they tried connecting, they couldn't reach God. Calls didn't go through. Hmmm. So, they hated God. It is normal for anyone who uses his/her number 6 (brain).
While observing these issues and making researches, keep in mind: all these possible gods are not equal and equally efficient with the same level of power. There is hierarchy. So, who is on top of the ladder? That is the one you want to connect to. If you connect to a lesser one, you may be trapped for eternity. So, be very careful.
I was in your state some years back. Do not ignore the Abrahamic God, and do not abuse Him again. If you do not agree with Hin, just let it stop there. No need of insulting Him or any other god. You are in a stage one one cannot convince or confuse you. You must find the truth yourself. Ignore works of men and show off. Many of those confused will want to tell you about the living God they do not know. And you will want to slap the fellow. But bro, that thing called "conscience" and that your soul is hungry for the truth is why you keep searching.
Bro, you will be alright very soon. You will soon know the truth. But if possible, pick that Bible you have ignored and just read like a story book. Just keep reading sir. It may not make sense, but it will help. I have passed through the stage you are, but I didnt slip into atheism. I only questioned everything.
Finally, you are right and you will realise it later. Using logic and reasoning are wrong ways and methods to prove the existence of God.
God bless sir!
Don't get it twisted, I have not moved 1 micrometer toward theism. I am making it clear that my skepticism is not limited to theism but also to atheism which has always been my position since I became an atheist. I am willing to accept the existence of gods if it can be proved they exist but I will never believe in gods.
Dtruthspeaker: Breaking News! Eve had sex with Satan before eating the fruit and gave birth to his son, Cain.
Many are Satan's children (Cains) and few are God's sons (Abel).
So Cains can not know Him nor see Him hence the are the ones who always say that they have not seen Him, but Abels live with Him and therefore Know Him.
LMFAO! Yet the same Cain talked to the god. SMH, did you actual read your bible or are you regurgitating stories you were told?
I told you. How about your HCQ argument? Have your news sources not betrayed you by accepting I was right all along? Have they not accepted that it improved survivability by 200%? What other ways should I disgrace you? Have you also seen that Trump took Ivermectin when he was sick with COVID19 and not regeneron? Did I not tell you then? I told you why did you decide to believe him when he claimed he took something else?
Never argue with me again. Kiddo
WTH are you on about?
BTW what has this got to do with the zombie outbreak you were predicting?
Christianity Etc › Re: This Is For Those That Believe God Does Not Exist Because He Can't Be Seen by LordReed(m): 5:47pm On Jun 12, 2021
