Image123: i scanned through the OP and didn't see the part where he talked about poverty being the consequence of adultery, care to share mr snake? i think he mentioned sin, destruction, evil, lust, corruption, negativity and co from what i read.
Jeepers creepers! What a craptastic load of bull crap. Jeff Bezos even after "committing adultery" multiple times is still the richest man in the world. Same with Elon Musk that Jeff Bezo knocked to second richest man in the world, Musk "commits fornication" yet is still top of the 1%. You guys are simply fear mongers.
Dtruthspeaker: I present Natural Ordinary and Regular Living Explainations and No One is Ever Able to Validly Counter them. You All tried your very best but, alas, you bow like Muslims down in the mosque.
Keep dreaming. You provide flawed epistemologies and when you get challenged you squirm like a baby being fed lemons.
I fully respect that my Lord because it is not quite my style to impose an impression on a person since impressions are influenced by ones perception, mine being that of greedy bastards playing holier than thou, just as it was in the beginning and forever will likely be.
Know that I will make fun of you my Lord, if and when your impression changes.
There's a lot more in the book than that my Lord, and I do not just expect you to take the words ("Lord Lord" alone but their implications (fruits) too. (That, by the way is what we learn from reading the Bible, "in spirit" so to speak, and not just the surface meaning of the words).
Note from what you quoted he says "we do not know", and he intelligently says "Their ambitions probably went no further", which is speculation that gives sufficient space for you to think of other probabilities going much further, especially since he even suggests they "may also have dreamed". If they dreamed once, it would not be wrong to think they might dreamed other dreams too, of wealth for instance, or glory.
It is those sort of comments that make that book one of my favourites on the subject, that and the fact that Maxine was borderline atheistic (though he is described as being agnostic). He does not write for you to believe but for you to use your mind in order to gain an understanding, and it is why I so admire Muhammed, dare I say.
I don't get the impression this author thinks trade was a big reason for Muhammend's actions is what I am highlighting. Instead it does seem establishment of the religion was the most potent reason for his actions.
budaatum: Lol, my Lord. The "tacked on" is done far too well for what you ask for, but if you read an autobiography of Mohammed I'm sure it would leap out at you. Maxime Rodinson's, a maverick Marxist, is one you'd expect to be pro my view, so read others too please.
From the book:
WHAT plans Muhammad and Abu Bakr were making on the road that led them to the city we do not know. It is unlikely that they had any clear vision of the future or that they reckoned all the consequences of their emigration. They were certainly glad to be able to settle down at last in an environment friendly to their beliefs and to their action. Their ambitions probably went no further than making Medina a centre from which the belief in Allah as the One God should spread out to cover a large area of Arabia. They may also have dreamed pending the just punishment which Allah would surely inflict on the unbelieving city - of exacting a more limited and human vengeance on their account.
BassReeves: True small statistics of people might have been resuscitated because the soul has not crossed over the point of no return yet. While some like, with the recent DMW, the life support reluctantly had to be switched off, because of facing reality that he had crossed over and is no more in the land of the living
Beloved, vehicles have manufacturers, who designed, fabricated them, and then mass production rolled them out, it just the same as with human beings, they too have a Creator.
Did you not take cue from that Isaiah 44:2 verse, talking about 'Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who by Myself spread out the earth,' hmm?
The soul's entry point was when it was being formed and subsequently fashioned in the womb, while its exit point is after the expiration of the breath of life
So basically you are merely speculating and have no concrete way of demonstrating anything you are claiming.
Dtruthspeaker: The highlighted puts you out of scope for I did not raise "Will" in my answer. I restricted myself Only to the Entry, Driving and Departure/Exit.
All other facts remain out of scope of my answer.
How does human enter exit or drive if not by will? I thought you don't believe we are robots.
BassReeves: Why are life support machines left on but soon after and eventually are switched off? It is the spirit, aka the breath of life, that sustains the soul on this side of eternity. When the point of no return is crossed, no amount of plugging into a life support machine will make any difference, besides its hope that makes keeping the body in that vegetative state using the life support machine
People have been resuscitated, failure to revive is not the only outcome.
If you make yourself available as a volunteer and sign consent document waiving your rights so no indemnity will be given for loss of any kind to you, I suppose it can be arranged to test entry and exit with you as guinea pig
Dtruthspeaker: My analogy is not flawed because I am merely describing A Specific Part (Entry, Driving and Exit of a car by a human being) with Another Specific Part (Entry, Driving and Exit of the soul from the body, flesh, blood of the thing called man).
That is the beginning and end of my presentation, anything outside these, is outside my presentation.
Thus, the freedom of the human being to enter and exit his "iron body" called car is beyond scope.
Entry, exit and driving of a vehicle is by will of a human which you say the soul has so how your does analogy hold up when you cannot demonstrate parity with any of the points you are trying to make? This is why your analogy is flawed and deficient. You are basically comparing apples to oranges and saying they taste the same.
Is it not a form that shows consciousness just like dolphins,goats,snakes
The possession of a functional brain or a brain that works only causes thinking and the thinking leads to your dissatisfaction towards environment when it is deeper!
There's nothing anybody can produce to eliminate the dissatisfaction of a person who thinks further because even the thinker can't please himself or herself adequately as a result of the complexity of the brain which makes the act of assessing things in vain inevitable.
Uniqueness is what is special about it. It's a one time and one time only deal.
I am not here to satisfy you, that is a task you must undertake for yourself.
BassReeves: Genesis 2:7 'And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrilsthe breath of life; and man became a living soul.'
Reiterating, the breath and spirit are often interchangeably used, but there is a distinction between a terrestrial spirit being with a soul housed in a body, to the breath of God aka spirit, i.e. part of His Spirit that was breathed into Adam's nostril, that made Adam come alive, as in like become animated, just as with how A4 characters on a comic magazine come alive and be seen moving in cartoon strips, like for example Tom and Jerry, Speedy Gonzales etc
Without the breath of life, Adam would have remained just a cartoon character on a comic, that it isnt animated. He would have been a soul, thats not living.
Isaiah 44:24 'Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who by Myself spread out the earth,'
The life of the flesh is the blood, while the life of the soul is the spirit. When the spirit, this time aka, the breath leaves the body, the soul departs the body, but the body could be kept alive by an artificial life support
The soul enters into being post conception and leaves the body on expiration of the breath life.
Have you ever been behind a high performance car, but the driver is just dang too sluggish with driving it, you wonder who buys such an expensive high performance car like this but doesnt know how to drive it that well enough. Or you're behind a powerfully built on the higher grade expensive high performance, being driven and handled very well, only for a petite person to pop out of it, and you go wow. I do a lot, I see these big SUVs driven about, only to see that its a little in size person, manoeuvring the car. Our bodies are roughly similar like that, in that, whatever body sizes we are, the soul inside our bodies, responds to, are influenced and dictated to according to the level or degree of the intensity by which our spirit man relates and/or relays with the spirit realm and of course with the Godhead
That is what happens when posters make analogies without clarity, stating or and making distinction between key words
If like you say the body can be kept alive without the soul then life has nothing to do with soul or spirit. Also People on life support have been successfully resuscitated does that mean the soul came back? And how can we test this entry and exit?
budaatum: And as I said, no wars of religion per se where religions is the main cause now or in the past.
You see your, "So if Pharoah shits its a religious shit?" Well, its so on point, is the point, along with your dissection of the other wars that were presented as religious wars, and I am claiming your observation for those work with the crusades and with Muhammed too.
You after all would not claim boko haram is fighting a religious war, I hope, just as you did not accept other examples of 'religious wars' that I have presented to you, though some were even recorded as being between gods.
And I am suggesting to you that what you say was "tacked on later" was always their devious primary intention from the very beginning, and religion was not the main cause even if the records say it was.
I suggest to you that Jerusalem was not the intention of the crusades, but the security of the trade route through which tribute flowed to the Church that had been disrupted by Muslim conquests along the route. If the Church's pocket was not hurt they'd have not given a crusading fuq about poxy Jerusalem!
Lol, my Lord. The "tacked on" is done far too well for what you ask for, but if you read an autobiography of Mohammed I'm sure it would leap out at you. Maxime Rodinson's, a maverick Marxist, is one you'd expect to be pro my view, so read others too please.
There's even verses in the Quran he wrote that Islam was not by compulsion, and you should know some he conquered he collected tribute from without insisting they convert, so not just trade but for monetary gain too, which was also the reason for the crusades, the Church's attempt to fill its coffers, though that's not what you'd expect to read in the records.
Its more about interpretation, my Lord. Like some read Dr Fauci's emails and say they damn him, some see in those same emails how good a person and a good job he did, so you and I will be on opposite sides of this fence I guess, though your faith in the Church's intention regarding the crusades amuses me since you should know that most popes of the time were more greedy than pious.
Lemme illustrate the way i see this subject with food. You would agree with me that the main reason you eat food is to survive however there are other aspects of eating food that provide motivation to go through with the rigour of purchase and preparation. Things like taste, flavour, texture even visual beauty add to the experience and make you want to do it again and again. Do these additional impetus mean your goal of survival has been superceded? No they don't. I will acknowledge that some foods you eat purely for the taste and not survival but still your goal of survival remains intact. Religious wars had other objectives but those objectives did not subtract the central goal which was religious domination or retaliation.
Dtruthspeaker: You know an illustration is meant to give explanation to a specific fact. It would not be an illustration if I referred to it pari-pasu, pari-material, but you know all this.
I know, which is why I said your analogy is deficient. A human is not trapped in a car and compelled to drive, a human can decide not to drive even after entering the car and sitting in the drivers seat. This is still with consideration that you only want to illustrate the apparent positions but your analogy relies on the human actually driving and exiting the vehicle, which as I point out, breaks down when you take a look at it.
It is exactly as you when you enter your car to drive it. Your car is the flesh/skin/ body (chassis), blood (oils and fuel) and bones (beams and frames) while you who enter the car to drive it, is the spirit/soul.
And since the car is just a cloth, so also is your body just a cloth to and for your real you, the soul.
Thus, exactly as you get out of your car when you die, your real you, the soul, will get out of the vehicle of your body to go and stand trial for offences committed while 'driving' the body.
I enter and exit my car at will not upon an inevitable event. Besides these days cars can perfectly drive themselves so I find your analogy deficient. If you can demonstrate that the so called soul can exit and enter the body at will then your analogy would fit.
hakeem4: yes we are special. But I think what the OP is trying to insinuate by “we are not special” is that no one really looks after us. Listens to our thoughts and has you in mind.
Oh sure I agree with that. I just wanted to add some perspective.
Christianity Etc › Re: Guys, Beware Of Demon-possessed Ladies Out There by LordReed(m): 5:09pm On Jun 06, 2021
True Christ Followers know that Faith is Knowledge and Acquisition of Specific Information. Like CIA verified Information 
alone but their implications (fruits) too. (That, by the way is what we learn from reading the Bible, "in spirit" so to speak, and not just the surface meaning of the words).