₦airaland Forum

Odunayaw:
The last time I was in water voluntarily was at my baptism. That's enough water for one life time please

Odunayaw:
Baby steps? I'd rather stay in the walker! Who says I want to walk

We'll have you outfitted appropriately! Cough...2-year old baby in the water...cough!

Odunayaw:
Yeah I'm on that group. I cannot join discussions there because it is mostly about SA + Facebook is quite dry these days. Were I not into fb ads, I'd have deleted the app by now

the group can be exasperating at times, but I learn a lot there. I especially enjoy the input from veterans who've done it in both the SADF and SANDF, and put both the old and young bigots in their place. Seriously though, do you find discussions SA-centric?
Personally, I think initially the worthwhile ones start with SA equipment, but evolve broadly...?
As tactics, ops and strat. Lately I've been enjoying the contributions by the Kenyans, who bring their particular sensibility.

Odunayaw, these are the baby steps that await you when you visit.
It's only water!

Odunayaw:
SA Para × Tanzania SF with a Chinese grenade launcher

Are you on that Facebook group, or did you get the pic elsewhere?

EDIT: I only ask cos some (no names, no pack drill) only lurk on the group, filch photos and yap prodigiously elsewhere.

Odunayaw:
I didn't know we had the SA Husky countermeasures vehicle in 2nd pic

Or is it not? Cc: Lurker4long

Yes it is. From excess US stocks.

Lurker4Long:
GreenandGold, the unseasonal weather continues. Here we are deep in spring and we've got Level 9 storms.

I took my dog on a walk around the neighbourhood and the amount of storm damage! Good thing today is a public holiday cos the chaos if people were going to work and school is unimaginable.

And around the mountain, at Kalk Bay Harbour!

GreenandGold, the unseasonal weather continues. Here we are deep in spring and we've got Level 9 storms.

I took my dog on a walk around the neighbourhood and the amount of storm damage! Good thing today is a public holiday cos the chaos if people were going to work and school is unimaginable.

andrewza:
the commander was actually from my intake. She is young

Condolences Andrew. Met her last year, at the French ambassador's Bastille Day celebration.
Are you back here or just swinging past?

Fidha254:
Kenya QRF and Brazil Jungle warfare SF 3-week interoperability training exercise

Excellent. More coverage from defenceWeb:

Joint Brazilian/Kenyan jungle warfare training in DR Congo


Specialist Brazilian jungle warfare operators deployed in Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) better prepared Kenyan soldiers for what they can encounter with an intensive, three-week long training course in the harsh surrounds of Beni.

The Kenyan Ministry of Defence (MoD) has it the joint endeavour is “a ground-breaking collaboration”, marking “a milestone in international peacekeeping efforts” and showing “the dedication of both nations to enhance capabilities and contribute to the stability of the region”.

The Kenyan quick reaction force (QRF), assigned to MONUSCO’s Force Intervention Brigade (FIB) was on the receiving end of the expertise residing in the Brazilian Jungle Warfare Mobile Training Team (JWMTT), also a MONUSCO component.

Under the dense canopy of the Congolese jungle, soldiers from Kenya’s QRF, known for their expertise in jungle warfare, joined forces with their Brazilian counterparts, who bring their extensive knowledge of tropical environments and counterinsurgency tactics. “The collaboration,” according to a statement, “aims to harness the strengths of both units and promote interoperability in tackling the complex challenges of peacekeeping missions in hostile environments”.

Lieutenant Colonel Ambrose Mwabili, Kenyan QRF Commanding Officer, emphasising the importance of the training said: “Jungle warfare presents unique challenges that require specialised skills and tactics. Sharing our experiences and learning from the Brazilians, we hope to become even more effective in our mission to protect civilians and maintain peace in this region.”

Brazilian Lieutenant Colonel Joao Carlos Duque, who leads his unit, echoed Mwabili’s sentiments: “The diversity of our soldiers and the expertise we gained operating in the Amazon rainforest make us a valuable partner in this venture. Together with our Kenyan colleagues, we aim to raise the bar for peacekeeping forces in jungle environments.”

The course curriculum covers topics, including navigation in dense foliage, survival skills, patrolling techniques and medical care in austere conditions. Participants undergo gruelling physical and mental challenges, pushing them to their limits and preparing them for the unpredictable nature of jungle warfare.

As the jungle warfare course proceeds, it is anticipated the Kenyan QRF and JWMTT will forge stronger bonds, exchange invaluable knowledge and emerge as more formidable peacekeeping units. Their dedication to mastering the complexities of jungle warfare reaffirms their commitment to safeguarding the fragile peace in Eastern DRC and serving as a beacon of hope for the region’s residents, the statement reads.

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/joint/diplomacy-a-peace/joint-brazilian-kenyan-jungle-warfare-training-in-dr-congo/

SA Navy to probe submarine disaster off Kommetjie, but stresses safety measures were adhered to

South African Navy authorities have stressed that ‘all safety measures’ were in place before an incident involving the South African Navy submarine SAS ’Manthatisi. However, an inquiry will be set up to probe the incident.

No Navy vessel, submarine or surface vessel, will leave harbour without a crew that is worked-up or trained. This vessel [SAS ’Manthatisi] – the crew, the captain – they are all trained. All the safety precautions were taken, and the vessel was certified to go to sea by our own certification entity,” said SA Navy Flag Officer Fleet Admiral Musawenkosi Nkomonde on the evening of Thursday, 21 September.

Nkomonde was speaking at a press conference held at Simon’s Town Naval Base, where he provided more details on the naval accident involving the SA Navy submarine SAS ’Manthatisi, which was off Kommetjie in Cape Town when high waves swept seven crew members out to sea on Wednesday afternoon.

SAS ’Manthatisi was en route to Table Bay from Simon’s Town for the South African Navy Festival, scheduled to take place at the V&A Waterfront from 23 to 25 September. The festival has now been cancelled.

The submariners were in the process of conducting a vertical transfer (Vertrep) using an SA Air Force Maritime Lynx helicopter when they were swept overboard. Rescue operations launched before 3pm on Wednesday saved the lives of five personnel. However, three submariners died during the incident.

On Thursday, the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) released the names of the deceased SA Navy submariners: Master Warrant Officer William Mathipa (48), Warrant Officer Class One Mmokwapa Mojela (43), and Lieutenant Commander Gillian Hector (33).

Hector was heralded as the first woman in Africa to navigate a submarine.

“It is a huge loss for the South African Navy, the entire Department of Defence and the country as a whole. [Hector] was the first female to qualify in her position in the submarine, [and] she was also on the verge of becoming the first female commanding officer… It took years of training for her to get here,” said Nkomonde.

The five remaining crew members had been admitted to hospital, with the SANDF saying one senior official was in critical condition on Wednesday.

“As we speak now, those members that were admitted to hospital, three have been discharged and one is still in the hospital [and] is stable and recovering – he will be discharged tomorrow morning,” said Nkomonde.

He said plans were being made for a combined memorial service for the three crew members. However, SA Navy officials still needed to consult with the families of the deceased.
Training exercises and safety measures

At the press conference, Nkomonde provided more details on what transpired during the vertical transfer exercise:

“One of the evolutions that they were performing is called a vertical replenishment (vertical transfer), that is the transferring of personnel or equipment from a helicopter to a submarine, or the reversal.

“In this case, our submarine SAS ’Manthatisi was exercising with the SA Air Force Maritime Lynx helicopter. They were going to transfer personnel from the helicopter to the submarine. However, unfortunately, an accident occurred during that evolution. The members of the submarine were on the upper deck, waiting to receive the personnel from the helicopter, and were swept off, overboard, by a wave.

“Then that’s where the casualties started.

“Initially, three members were swept overboard, and the other crew members were trying to assist them, and they were also swept by a second wave. A surface swimmer from the helicopter, who’s normally a safety [monitor] for such evolutions was lowered into the water to assist with the rescue or recovery of the members who fell overboard,” he said.

Nkomonde said the crew members who were swept overboard were recovered and brought back on board. However, the sea was getting rougher and the rescue operation was becoming difficult.

“We managed to recover three of them on board, and the others were recovered [by] the NSRI [National Sea Rescue Institute],” he said.

Nkomonde stressed that when these evolutions took place, “safety is of the utmost importance”.

“All the safety measures were in place, all the members … were wearing life jackets and safety harness which are our safety measures…”

“All training operations are conducted under control conditions, that is why … there was a safety swimmer on board that helicopter. That is why we have them [a safety swimmer] so that when such incidents occur, they can come to the rescue,” he said in response to questions from Daily Maverick.

Several witnesses of the rescue efforts in Kommetjie told Daily Maverick on Wednesday that the swells off the coast were huge.

Maritime Project Leader at the Institute for Security Studies, Tim Walker told Daily Maverick that this kind of accident involving a submariner being swept off a submarine during surface operations was not necessarily “out of the blue” and had occurred in the past.

“Accidents happen, and with our navy – and in fact any navy – when they’re put to sea they’re always doing their best, and submariners are arguably the most skilled and dedicated because of the challenges they face,” he said.

Speaking to the rescue operations and the conditions at sea, Walker said: “There’ve been several incidents over the last couple of years where the NSRI and the South African Maritime Safety Authority​ have really done everything they can to try and save lives at sea. So the fact that they weren’t able to do this, relatively close to the shore, just goes to show how bad the conditions were.”
Establishment of an inquiry

An SANDF statement released on Wednesday night said that an inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the incident would be convened “in due course”.

Nkomonde could not provide more details about the inquiry timeline and processes.

“For now we’re just focusing on supporting the victims who were injured, the crew members – because this is traumatic, as you can understand. Once we have settled that, the Chief of the Navy will pronounce, as soon as possible, the board of inquiry will be convened, and we will know what happened,” he said.

Given that all safety measures were allegedly in place, Nkomonde said it was crucial to convene an inquiry, “to establish what happened and to prevent a future recurrence of what happened”.

In response to questions on whether it was wise to conduct an exercise of that nature, given the high waves and strong winds which have battered the coastal areas of the Western and Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal in the past week, Nkomonde said he did “not want to speculate”.

“However, the captain of the submarine would’ve made that call, to make an assessment, to check if the conditions were safe for such an evolution to be conducted. We were all not there, so we are waiting now for the people who were there, to give us first-hand information when we conduct our inquiry,” he said.

Maritime experts who spoke to Daily Maverick echoed Nkomonde’s remarks, saying the commanding officer would typically assess the sea conditions shortly before conducting a vertical replenishment exercise to decide whether to proceed.
Condolences

On Thursday morning, the Presidency issued a statement saying President Cyril Ramaphosa was “deeply saddened” by the loss of the three crew members who perished at sea off Kommetjie.

“This is a sad loss for our nation and for our brave armed forces in particular who routinely face danger in order so that all of us can be safe and secure. My thoughts and prayers go out to the families, friends, commanders and colleagues of the crew members we have lost.

“We wish the injured personnel a full recovery from the physical and psychological trauma they experienced during this tragedy. We also appreciate the efforts of all role players who, at great risk to themselves, undertook the rescue and recovery operation,” said Ramaphosa.

Condolences to the families, friends and colleagues of the deceased SA Navy crew members were also sent by the parliamentary portfolio committee on defence and military veterans and its chairperson, Cyril Xaba.

Cape Town Mayor Geordin-Hill Lewis, on X (formerly Twitter), said he was “saddened to hear of the loss of the three SA Navy sailors”.

“We mourn the loss of these servicemen and pray that they will know our gratitude for their service to our country,” he said. DM

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za

RIP to these sailors. A mate at the SA Weather Service tells me a weather buoy closest to the sub registered successive 10m waves at the same time as the vertical replenishment exercise.

The SAS Manthatisi was en route to Cape Town while conducting a vertical replenishment (vertrep) exercise with a Super Lynx helicopter, when high waves swept seven crew members out to sea. Rough seas affected the rescue and recovery operation, in which the National Sea Rescue Institute assisted. While all crew members were recovered, three fatalities were recorded. Other crew members, including a senior officer in a critical condition, were sent to hospital for treatment.

“This is a sad loss for our nation and for our brave armed forces in particular, who routinely face danger in order for all of us to be safe and secure. My thoughts and prayers go out to the families, friends, commanders and colleagues of the crew members we have lost,” Commander-in-Chief of the SANDF, President Cyril Ramaphosa said.

The deceased submariners are SAS Manthatisi Executive Officer, Lieutenant Commander Gillian Elizabeth Hector (Malouw); Coxswain, Master Warrant Officer William Masela Mathipa; and Coxswain under training, Warrant Officer Mmokwapa Lucas Mojela.

The injured members are Officer Commanding, Commander Charles Nkolo Phokane; Weapons Officer, Lieutenant Melinyani Gobinca; Warrant Officer in Charge Submarine Escape Training Simulator, Warrant Officer First Class Brendan Daly (he was the safety swimmer from the helicopter who jumped into the water as a surface swimmer to assist); the Head of Section Electrical Department, Warrant Officer Second Class Ayanda Mahlobo; and the Head of Department Detection, Warrant Officer Second Class Charles Kriel.

Hector, formerly Malouw, was the first woman to hold an executive officer post in the SAN submarine service, becoming the first qualified Black female SA Navy submarine officer in 2019. She joined the SA Navy in 2010 at the age of 20, and qualified as submariner in 2018. She is survived by her son and husband.

Mojela was born in October 1980 and enlisted in the South African Navy in 1999. He joined the submarine branch in 2006 and qualified as submariner in 2007. He is survived by his wife and two children.

Mathipa was born in February 1975 and joined the South African Navy in 1997. He joined the submarine branch in 1998. He is survived by his wife and two daughters.

Odunayaw:
I feel the job/threat determines what special forces mean per country

Perhaps. But if everyone is special, nobody is.

Odunayaw:
Ghanaian Navy graduates 9 SBS operatives | Nine (9) operatives made up of 3 Officers and 6 Ratings on the Basic Operative Capability Course 2 successfully graduated on Friday 15 September 2023 at the Naval Training Command (NAVTRAC), Nutekpor in the Volta Region, Ghana.

Having successfully gone through 26 weeks of rigorous training, the trainees graduated with the status of Special Forces Operatives ready to assist the Special Boat Squadron (SBS) of the Ghana Navy in combating counter-piracy, trafficking and other maritime-related crimes. !

That's more like it! None of this battalion-sized "special forces" graduation.

Algerian Super Lynx helicopters firing their Denel Mokopa ATGMs.

"It is with great pleasure that I announce the successful completion of the fourth and final filling of the Renaissance Dam," Ethiopian Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed said on X, formerly Twitter.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-66771155

A rugby World Cup and there's no kikuyu1 with whom to banter!

Second Senegalese OPV 58S undergoing sea trials

French shipyard Piriou is carrying out sea trials of the Niani, the second of three OPV 58S patrol vessels destined for Senegal, indicating delivery is imminent.

The Niani was at the beginning of September seen around Lorient, France, for sea trials, after having been completed at the Concarneau shipyard, Mer et Marine reports.

Niani was launched in September 2022 while the third vessel, Cayor, was launched on 2 May – it will be delivered early next year.

The order, signed in November 2019, is being fulfilled by Kership, the joint venture founded by Piriou and Naval Group in 2013. Construction of the hulls is being divided between Concarneau and Lanester, near Lorient, where the Kership shipyard is located. The contract includes seven years of follow-on support in Senegal, with the vessels to be supported in Senegal by Piriou subsidiary Pirou Ngom Senegal, created in October 2017 through a partnership with Ngom & Freres.

Construction of the first vessel, Walo, bean in October 2020 and it was launched in April 2022 before being handed over at Piriou’s shipyard in Concarneau on 2 June.

The vessels have a length of 62.2 meters, displacement of 600 tonnes, a top speed of 21 knots and range of 4 500 nautical miles at 12 knots. Endurance is three weeks with a crew of 24, although another 24 personnel can be accommodated.

The OPV 58 S design is based on the ‘C-Sharp’ (Combined-Speeds Hull with All-Round Performances) hull developed by Piriou and Kership, which increases the ship’s endurance and seagoing capabilities. The hull is all-steel with an aluminium superstructure, featuring a 360° panoramic bridge and an aft ramp for the rapid launch and recovery of two rigid-hull inflatable boats. A large rear deck can accommodate two 20-foot containers, handled by a crane (7.5 t to 8 m).

The vessels are armed with four MBDA anti-ship missiles (Marte Mk 2Ns) and the MBDA SIMBAD-RC air defence system with two Mistral 3 surface-to-air missiles, along with a 76 mm gun. France’s Naval Group supplies the combat management system (POLARIS).

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/sea/sea-sea/second-senegalese-opv-58s-undergoing-sea-trials/

Denel T5-52 breaches the 60km range!

Alkantpan hosts successful Denel capability demo

Proof Denel can still make the grade came at Armscor’s Alkantpan test range last month with pride of place going to a VLAP (velocity enhanced artillery projectile) shot which reached a remarkable 61.29 km distance.

The artillery shoot was part of a three-day capability demonstration at the remote Northern Cape site in mid-August to showcase the State-owned Denel is “back in business”.

The 60 km+ shot was made from a Denel Land Systems T5-52 155 mm, 52-calibre self-propelled howitzer on the final day of the demo, with the first and second days covering shoot and scoot, maximum rate of fire and stability and accuracy demonstrations.

Three VLAP rounds were fired on day three, an exercise made “interesting” by prevailing winds, at times reaching 130 km/h speeds in the upper meteorological line. The first shot achieved 60.4 km and the second 60.9km. The ballistic test for the final shot of the day showed a 61.29 kilometre range. This proved once and for all, Denel said, the superiority of the system combination between its T5-52 and the Rheinmetall Denel Munition (RDM) ammunition suite from the Assegai family.

Denel collaborated with RDM, which supplied its suite of artillery ammunition. An RDM test in November 2019 at Alkantpan using Assegai 155 mm VLAP ammunition reached a record 76 km with a 52-calibre barrel, and 53 km with a 39-calibre barrel. These ranges were achieved with Denel G5 and G6 howitzers.

Denel said the August test-firing confirmed it is “still at the forefront of global technological advancement in the field of artillery and that it has recapacitated itself to be able to meet customer expectations in pursuit of world-class product offerings.” It said the 155 mm T5-52 artillery system is a flagship product, designed to be mobile, with increased firepower and a low operating cost.

Other Denel products shown at Alkantpan were its Seeker 400 unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), Altimate 105 mm self-propelled howitzer, mounted on Denel Vehicle Systems RG41 8×8 armoured platform; 105mm light experimental ordnance (LEO/WEBBY); as well as the Denel Mechatronics Missile Stabilised Turret (MST) mounted on an RG32M mine hardened armoured patrol vehicle.

The Seeker 400 showed its capability by way of demonstration flights on the first two days, first completing a surveillance mission over the target and confirming grids once firing was underway. The UAV also provided the correction function for fall of shot through a live feed from the target area.

The Seeker 400 operates at a direct line-of-sight (LOS) range of up to 250 km with more than 10 hours time on target (TOT), a speed of 150 km/h and up to 16 hours endurance with a multiple sensor payload capability up to 100 kg.

Denel said one of the main objectives of the 15-17 August demonstration was to re-establish and grow the relationship with end users, the local defence industry and international partners, with the intention of getting closer to niche markets.

Invitations sent to ten countries were accepted by eight, whose representatives at the test range were joined by Deputy Public Enterprises Minister Obed Bapela. Local participants included representatives from the Department of Defence (DoD), the Directorate Conventional Arms Control (DCAC), Armscor, the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, the SA Army, Defence Intelligence as well as local defence industry companies.

Bapela said the demonstration showed that Denel is back to business and has the full support from the Government, its shareholder the Department of Public Enterprises, the Board and Management and will continue to work towards making itself a sustainable and profitable company.

In summary Denel noted the demonstration “received positive reviews from those present”.

“The event is a statement from Denel to the global market confirming its place as a global supplier of world-class aerospace, military and defence equipment. This capability demo confirmed to clients Denel is redefining its future,” Denel concluded.

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/editors-pick/alkantpan-hosts-successful-denel-capability-demo/

GreenandGold:
Your system needs to be tested by the 16 security lights I have outside during Stage 6 load-shedding + my 1000w gaming PC and a girlfriend who is constantly hair-drying her every evening.

On a serious note though, I envy you and your municipality, mine is pure rubbish, in fact, I'm even entertaining the idea of living in a farmstead for the first time in my life as long as I won't have to pay those id#ots any fees.

Pah! My system allows me to choose to be completely off-grid, with more than enough to feed back to the City (and get paid for it )
I have 40 hours of reserve power in those 4 batteries, and seeing that I can run my 300L geyser, home server for work, another server for crypto-mining and all other appliances, your gaming PC, hair dryer and security lights seem puny.

Really though, when we had enough of the ANC, we chucked them out. Mind you, they were not fvcking up (Cape Town has a bureaucracy that pretty much runs the City regardless of whatever political party), but they were not progressing. We know we have one of the best cities on the planet, and require stewards fully on board with that sentiment.

Our bonds division trades in municipal bonds all over the continent, so I recently went on an SA road trip (away from PowerPoint, one has to see for oneself); it's scary out there.
Cape Town, Maputo, Luanda, Nairobi, Casablanca, Algiers, Tunis, Accra, and Dakar remain the only municipal bonds with which we're comfortable. Cape Verde, Botswana and Mauritius we've swapped City bonds for country ones.

We used to hold bonds for all SA issuing metros, a third of the over 30 African cities tradable.
Now look at my list and the mega-cities absent!

Odunayaw:
Based one Lionel's contributions here, I don't know him to be a rumor mill.

But I can't see anything concrete in that blog post.

Yep. The facts on Lionel's blog post do not support the conclusion he reaches. Here's why I say so:
1) The official Nigerian statements all date back to 2021, before the latest sanctions on Russia, which -to repeat - proscribe the use of the USD to pay for Russian goods;
2) It is not at all clear if the quoted "high-ranking military official" who reportedly made the comments at Army 2023 is Russian or Nigerian. If the former, well, he would say that, as they've been saying all sorts of things to show they're not isolated.
If the latter, the currency problem remains.

bidexiii:
When Nigerian Military smacquires modern equipment they'll always tell you on this thread to provide evidence; this is not the QST time and it wouldn't be the last.
Same happened with the Tucano, attack helicopters and when we acquired the used T72,s.

What they? I postulated why I think the deal is unlikely so long as the currency restrictions on Russia remain. Do you have a counter argument to offer, or just content with taking down straw men?

kabe1:
Nigeria acquiring Russian-made T-90 main battle tanks
These acquisitions signify Nigeria's strategic approach to assembling a versatile and capable military force.

https://www.military.africa/2023/08/nigeria-acquiring-russian-made-t-90-main-bbattle-tanks/?amp=1

As dollars can't be used because of the US sanctions on Russia, what currency will Nigeria use to pay for these tanks?
The more I think of all the currency swaps Nigeria could do, like the Indian Rupee or the Chinese yuan, the more unlikely this deal is to go ahead.

SuperSixSeven:
Earlier this week Wagner PMC Group leader Yevgeny Prigozhin appeared in video lauding the group's efforts on the African continent. "Wagner makes Russia even greater on all continents, and Africa – more free."

Today Russian state owed media TASS reported that a plane crashed in the Tver region (Russia), it is reported 10 people were killed. According to the passenger list, the first and last name of Yevgeny Prigozhin was included in this list.

https://tass.com/emergencies/1664311

If true, good riddance to bad rubbish. "Africa more free", my arse. Purported video here:

Video of the crash, per Mash, a Telegram channel close to Russian security services. They say eyewitnesses heard two loud bangs shortly beforehand. https://t.co/Q9ERTVIkMV pic.twitter.com/9gBnVeZ1GM

— max seddon (@maxseddon) August 23, 2023

Fidha254:
If you don't mind, how much did it cost you to install panels plus battery. Want to compare the prices with over here.

Best way to do a comparison is to list the components:
- 2 x 10Kw inverters;
- 4 x 5kw batteries;
- 18 x 550w solar panels.
That plus installation, certificate of compliance by an electrician and VAT came to ZAR 180 000 (USD 10 000).

There are much cheaper options; I opted to supersize mine cos:
1) I can sell the extra power to the City Council and recoup the cost for the system in 5/6 years;
2) the govt is offering a tax rebate of ZAR 15 000 (which I'm deducting on my tax return this year) for solar panels.

OkpaNsukkaisBae:
SA?

Yes, Cape Town to be specific.

Off-topic: when I walked my dog this wintry morning.

Odunayaw:
And something must be said of the CSAR group of the NAF

What happened to quick deployment to the crash site?

Same question I've been asking myself every time a NAF aircraft goes down in the badlands.