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Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 12:06am On Apr 22, 2022 |
OkCornel: It is not because I am trying to show the disparity between Revelation 8 that refers to the Trumpets during the tribulation (which nobody on earth was hearing by the way) compared to the trump sounds that will be used to initiate the rapture. |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 12:04am On Apr 22, 2022 |
OkCornel: They are not the church. They are called tribulation saints because they are the ones who believed in Jesus during the tribulation or maybe lukewarm Christians who became serious because they missed the rapture. Jesus already said in Revelation 2:26-27 that he will give the church the rod of iron to rule with him. The church wields the same authority with the head. |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 11:58pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: That is why I told you to also read verse 7 and 8. Paul says something must happen before the gathering of saints (rapture) and the coming of the lord (2nd advent). 1. An apostasy. (Verse 3) 2. The removal of the restrainer (verse 6-7) (RAPTURE) 3. Man of sin revealed 4. 2nd adventure or coming of the lord. |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 11:53pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: Just like brother and sibling can be used interchangeably yet only the context will truly define if the brother being used is literal brother (like sibling) or if it is being used in a more generic sense. Like I can refer to a fellow Nigerian as a brother even though they are not my biological brother. Context is key. |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 11:51pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: The man child is christ. Christ refers to Jesus (head) and his church (his body). |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 11:48pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: Yes the church is the restrainer and no Paul did not say Jesus will not come for the church until the man of sin is revealed. Paul starts verse 1 by saying he wants to share some information concerning the gathering of saints (rapture) and the coming of the lord (2nd coming). They are not the same events which is what I wanted to prove to you. Since the rapture happens before the 2nd coming, Paul aims to address what must happen before both events. |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 11:45pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: Yes but Trump and Trumpet are not the same. Trumpets, trump. Using Trump to refer to trumpet can only then be determined by the context which is what I have tried to show you from the beginning. |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 11:43pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: You just skipped past the fact that Paul called it a last trump. You cannot refer to "last" if there was only one. So that shows you a gap in your theology. You have to know and then answer the question about the first trump because it will show you why Paul referred to the second trump as the last. |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 11:41pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: No it does not at all. I warned about some translations with Bible prophecy because some of them are completely flat out false. That word is apostasy. The rebellion is apostasy. Many Christians will deny their faith. That is what 2 Thessalonians is referring to. Revelation 12 v 17 is completely unrelated. The woman is Israel. In verse 5 the manchild (Christ - which refers to Jesus and his church), was raptured from the world. In anger and realizing his time to inflict pain was shortened and he missed the chance to get them, deciding to focus on the REMNANTS of the the woman's seed. You cannot have a remnant church. Remnants always referred to Israelites that remained after Israel had suffered persecution, war, capture etc. Every single verse in Chapter 12 shows this clearly. Conclusively, during the great tribulation, many jews will believe in Jesus Christ because of the preaching of the 144K. They are the people being referred to in verse 17. |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 11:30pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: Yes and both allude to 2 trumps. If 1 Corinthians 15 was not clear, 1 Thessalonians 4 made it clear. My question to you is, what does the first trump announce before we can conclude what the 2nd trump was about? |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 10:56pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: I don't want to veer off into the first resurrection because the first resurrection is not the rapture like people think. The rapture is for the CHURCH ALONE. I said there are 2 trumps mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4. You say no but Paul refers to a last trump in 1 Corinthians 15 to which I asked, when was the first? You have to answer the first to see why the second was called the last. |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 10:52pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: No the believers who were ready and prepared for the rapture will not be here. Which is why Paul is admonishing them not to be troubled and to comfort their hearts with what he was revealing. |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 10:49pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: Yes the very same event. So you can use 1 Thessalonians 4 to match 1 Corinthians 15 and it will tie in perfectly without any contradiction. I'll leave the 7th trumpet part for now as I want the discussion to be cohesive. |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 10:47pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: Good. However, Paul then refers to only 2 trump sounds both in 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4. Do you see it? |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 10:45pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: Of course he was referring to the church or else who was he referring to there? Don't forget Paul kept showing a dichotomy. He said "we" "ye" in referring to the church and then "them", "they" etc in referring to the world. Do you see it? Read the verses past verse 9-11 for instance. |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 10:42pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: Did you notice it said "trumpet call" and the trumpet will SOUND? because trump refers to the sound. |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 10:40pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: That is why I said why will Paul not make any reference to the first trump or maybe he did. Then I showed you another place he talked about the same thing and in that instance he referred to the 2 trump sounds. If there are 2 trump sounds it means the 2nd trump will be the last trump. Do you get it? I also told you that Jesus's reference ties in to Revelation 6 and not to what Paul said because the events Jesus described before that final trumpet or 7th trumpet from the last angel is not in sync with what Paul said. I can show you more. |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 10:37pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: You are slightly deviating now but do you notice verse 7 says an event has to happen before the man of sin is revealed? The proof is verse 8. Do you see it? |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 10:33pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: 1 Corinthians 15 on its own does not say so. But 1 Corinthians 15 does not tell you anything about how many trump/trumpet sounds will be heard right? |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 10:32pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: It is not the same. NIV is one of the poorer translations when it comes especially to eschatology or prophecies in general. Remember if that verse is parallel with 1 Thessalonians 4 v 16, the literal translation is trump. There is a reason it is key but I can let it pass for now just to show you more. Let us say that word is Trumpet then what did the first Trumpet signify from 1 Corinthians 15 or from 1 Thessalonians 4? |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 10:26pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: But 1 Corinthians 15 is a segment of 1 Thessalonians 4 and was authored by the same man. Verse 16 of 1 Thessalonians 4 says it is Jesus himself. |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 10:25pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: Yes Last trump refers to the last sound made by a trumpet. It never says last trumpet. Do you agree? To buttress this, when was the first trump blown if that particular trump was the last and what did the first trump signify? You referred to the 7 trumpets in Revelation but those 7 trumpets came after the 7 seals. In fact the 7th seal is what opened up the 7 trumpets. If you compare what the seals meant to what Jesus said in Matthew 24 you see them follow the same order as Jesus said it. I want to say more but I want my posts to be concise. |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 10:17pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel: I have shown you posers to reconcile from the verses you have referred to. 1 Corinthians 15 v 51-52 and 1 Thessalonians 4 v 16-17 are referring to the same event. I agree. But Matthew 24 v 29-31 is not the same. I have already given you 2 clues. I can present more but I don't want a very long post. So to help the discussion, try to reconcile how Matthew 24 refers to angels but both 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4 only refer to Jesus himself and not angels. That should tell you the events are not the same. Matthew 24 matches more with Revelation 6 for e.g. |
Religion / Re: Issues To Ponder On The Pretrib Rapture Doctrine by Maestro21: 10:01pm On Apr 21, 2022 |
OkCornel:Are you willing to have a meaningful debate devoid of name-calling? If you are, then I'll show you in so many ways where you have missed it. For e.g, your question could have started by asking when is the first trump? Also take note that trump is a sound which is not to be confused with the word trumpet which is the instrument. Matthew 24 v 29-31;Notice in the Matthew 24 which you quoted Jesus says 1. That Angels (plural) will cause his elects from the 4 corners of the earth to come to where Jesus is landing. 2. That all human eyes will see him as he descends to the earth. Is this not different from.1 Corinthians 15 that you just quoted? In 1 Corinthians 15 Paul says it happened in the twinkling of an eye which means it was so rapid that the human eye won't catch it. Paul pivots on this same teaching in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 where he says Jesus himself is the one who comes down and uses the voice of an arch angel to initiate the movement of Christians. That verse says nothing about more than one angel. Don't you think you are confusing both events? Don't you think Matthew 24 is not the same event with 1 Corinthians 15? I have more things to say but let me start here. |
Religion / Re: Hea by Maestro21: 5:03am On Mar 28, 2022 |
needanswer:How can you verify that the first highlighted part is false? Where is your reference for this "stat"? Go to the hospitals today or wait till Monday and go to any hospital in Nigeria or outside Nigeria and you will still see crowds of sick people lined up at the hospital. So please which 6 billion plus people did pastor Chris heal in his healing stream?This is a silly question. The funny one I saw on Twitter was one where Pastor Chris prayed for a woman that had a tumour on her face that she had been healed but the tumour was still there after the healingwhen is a tumor healed and how do you know that a tumor is healed the instant it is? |
Religion / Re: Arrogant Covid_19 Vaccines Supporter Dies From The Vaccine. by Maestro21: 4:45pm On Feb 04, 2022 |
Did your man of God warn that the lockdowns will do nothing but worsen the situation? Did he repeatedly tell you that it will cripple economies? Did he call them lock-ups? He must be a prophet and one who hears from God. If yours did not, well, nothing spoil. Some are preachers and some are men of God.
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Religion / Re: Arrogant Covid_19 Vaccines Supporter Dies From The Vaccine. by Maestro21: 4:43pm On Feb 04, 2022 |
Extremely very very rare. Not from the HHS. Totally made up. Notice how all these people are lying, making up numbers, connecting bad things to the jabs because they have something to gain (even when the manufacturers are idemnified). But the manufacturers have no reason to lie. They have always been honest and above board. 1 Like 1 Share
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Religion / Re: Arrogant Covid_19 Vaccines Supporter Dies From The Vaccine. by Maestro21: 4:39pm On Feb 04, 2022 |
Extremely rare 1 Like 1 Share
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Religion / Re: Arrogant Covid_19 Vaccines Supporter Dies From The Vaccine. by Maestro21: 4:38pm On Feb 04, 2022 |
Extremely rare 1 Like 1 Share
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Religion / Re: Arrogant Covid_19 Vaccines Supporter Dies From The Vaccine. by Maestro21: 4:33pm On Feb 04, 2022 |
What some agbayas don't know is, Charlie Zink was a very good swimmer and had a history of swimming in that pool. So hearing he drowned would have shocked people who knew him especially when it was a lake that he and his friends had swam in many times. Well, here is the reason he drowned: Is it not convenient that the autopsy report does not mention asphyxiation by drowning or water filling up the child's lungs? That is because he had a vaccine induced heart condition that caused him to suffer a stroke and caused him to drown. That is why his death was recorded as a vaccine injury. But fools want to quote the conspirators of a crime as proof that they did not conspire in the crime. I have seen extremely slow people in life but even I am still shocked at how slow some others can truly be. 1 Like 1 Share
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Religion / Re: Arrogant Covid_19 Vaccines Supporter Dies From The Vaccine. by Maestro21: 4:29pm On Feb 04, 2022 |
I have told people who cannot research to stop quoting me. I don't suffer fools gladly. If I put a fact here it is because it has been thoroughly investigated. One who has nothing to hide, hides nothing. Any sensible person should have been suspicious of an obituary claiming this: see attached. One would think, if a child is at the bottom of a lake for 2 hours, it is a natural assumption that he died of drowning. So why would they be investigating it? Why even claim the child died "in the process of swinging..."? LOL. Retards should follow-up 1 Like 1 Share
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Religion / Re: Arrogant Covid_19 Vaccines Supporter Dies From The Vaccine. by Maestro21: 4:41pm On Feb 03, 2022 |
What more? I can go on and on for days literally. Nobody should open their smelly mouths to claim - nobody died - jabs are safe and effective - COVID-19 was not made in a lab - they never said the jabs will prevent COVID-19 spread Or that - you said COVID19 was not real Or any other nonsense. If you need evidence, ask politely and I will feed you till it falls out of your nose. Be getting ready for jab 4 and 5 and 6... Be getting ready for them coming after babies this year like never before. Get ready for strokes, myocarditis, people testing for AIDS after taking these jabs. Oh many will die and they will say it is from complications due to COVID-19. Don't you dare say you were not warned copiously. Sometimes with tears. 1 Like
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