₦airaland Forum

Demmzy15:
This the problem with you Christians, your sense is very tiny. You can't think straight, none of you have refuted what I wrote. Instead of you to do that, you've been raining curses. Nawa o, go back to my replies I gave Scholar820, I showed what Jews call an "adult". I advise you not to quote me if you don't have manners because if I start with you, you go hate me.

malvisguy212:
child marriage a common trend to the Jews ? But none of biblical kings or leaders marry a little girl , will God allow Joseph to marry a little girl? The angel called her "blessed AMONG WOMEN". For Mary to be betrothed (engaged) but not YET
formally married, yet OLD ENOUGH to have and nurse the Messiah, she would have been a young woman of about 20 upward.

Demmzy15:
This the problem with you Christians, your sense is very tiny. You can't think straight, none of you have refuted what I wrote. Instead of you to do that, you've been raining curses. Nawa o, go back to my replies I gave Scholar820, I showed what Jews call an "adult". I advise you not to quote me if you don't have manners because if I start with you, you go hate me.

Demmzy15:
Mr. Man go back and read, stop behaving like robot. Child marriage is a common trend amongst Jews and you're a Nigerian! It's their culture, your culture might not permit it but that doesn't mean others don't. Don't be irrational!

Demmzy15:
Don't glance at post read them, I dealt with everything you're saying here!

Demmzy15:
Your first sentence is wrong, so therefore the article is nonsense!

abduljabbar4:
Im intrested in the arguement but unfortunately i dont understand what you are saying @ all

Demmzy15:
It's found in the Catholic Encyclopedia or I should say the "Apocryphal" works.



This can't serve as a point because my family itself is a prove against this. My grandmother had her first cousin when she was 48years old. Now her cousin is 40years. That makes my grandmother 88, we can use this as an example with Mary. Assuming Elizabeth was 48years when Mary was born, in 12years time she'll(Elizabeth) be 60years(an old woman as you claimed).



The average age a Girl starts puberty is 11years old, you're using today's standard to judge an event of over 2000years ago. It's a known fact that the body changes/adapts to the area you stay with time, we've had cases of girls giving birth at ages 9,10 and 11 in this generations. Wikipedia states: "According to Jewish tradition, adulthood is reached at age 13 (the minimal age of the Bar Mitzvah or Bat Mitzvah) for Jewish boys and girls; they are expected to demonstrate preparation for adulthood by learning the Torah and other Jewish practices."



This shows you that indeed she took over her responsibility as woman or probably an adult. She could take care of herself, live alone(if the house wasn't near her parents')



Even as old as you're now, you're still under their authority and care. My bone of contention is at that age as of then, 12year olds got married. It happens!



That's another issue on its own, inc'est and all sort nasty sexual crimes were committed. So I'll advice we keep that away!

NUMBERS 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

truthman2012:
Thank you bro.
God bless you.

menesheh:
but they still care to use it.

Scholar8200:
Mary was sure older than 12 years then!!! There is not a hint of those ages in the Bible so where did you get them from?!
1. She was cousin (not niece) to an Old woman:Elizabeth.(described as being well-stricken in years Luke 1:7). Hence, it's impossible that she was 12.
2. The angel said to Mary, blessed art thou among women (Luke 1:28) A twelve year-old is still a girl!
3. She already had her own apartment Luke 1:56 else it would have read ,"her father's house".
4. Twelve year olds were still fully subject to their parents authority and care eg Jesus was 12 when Mary and Joseph missed Him after the feast (Luke 2:42) and afterwards, He went with them and was subject to His earthly parents (Luke 2:51)

I am yet to find ANY man in the Bible that got married to one of such a young age! Abraham and Sarah attained ripe old age at the same time meaning the gap between their ages was moderate; likewise Zechariah and Elizabeth, Isaac and Rebecca, David and Abigail, Jacob and Leah/Rachel etc

menesheh:
First of all see your comments



I said this




You were talking about material things, am still expecting those things you meant by material things atheists enjoy that theist don't.

menesheh:
Yea, point one among those earthly things atheists enjoy that you've never enjoyed or will never still enjoy.
Car
Sex
Holiday travel
Yacht
Drinks
Partying
Love
Etc

The issue here is trying to control how i do those things. Christian will come up theirs, same with muslim, and Judaism. How do we Choose the factual one from god?


Whether they are mundane or not, as far as you are living in this our physical world, brother you need those things. What you are doing is pretence and faking.

menesheh:
Ever wonder why some believers hate us? I mean it should be enough that we are going to hell, being reborn as roaches, or spending the next life as the only tree in a park surrounded by apartment dwelling dog owners. Why can’t they just say: “sorry about the hell thing, but have a nice day anyway?” Oh no, some can’t stop themselves from ranting, and spewing their bile in histrionics that would make a schizophrenic psychopath (if there is such a thing) proud. Well, here is my take on why this is so. They are just plain jealous.

1. Jealous about Sex

Most religions have some restrictions on sex, either explicit or implied or in terms of culturally enforced “morality.” They all have hang-ups about something, and even the Kama Sutra loving Hindus have become real prudes, restricting even kissing in movies. Sex and all its variations, porn included, is available for atheists to enjoy as a pure pleasure free from guilt. (See my earlier blog on this)

So, when believers see us, and know we are free to engage in the sort of carnal pursuits they can only dream about, albeit with a certain amount of guilt,, they are jealous. The homophobes hate us for being able to act on such desires. Those who treat women like some prized cattle (Jews, Hindus and Muslims, this is about you), resent the sexual freedom of independent women. They envy our orgasms, covet our sexually provocative outfits, begrudge our sexual dalliances, and resent our carnal self-confidence.

And rest assured that their imagination is greater than the sum of most people’s actual experience, but that is how jealousy works. It takes a suspicion and magnifies it past the point of being a verisimilitude and into an assumed consummation of epic proportions. For many believers, every atheist is a Marquis de Sade libertine cast in the role of either a male Casanova or a female Catherine the Great. If only it were so….

2. Jealous about Time

For every person sitting in the church, mosque, temple, synagogue, or whatever, there is someone wishing they were somewhere else: fishing, golfing, sleeping late/early, partying a on a Friday night instead of praying or prostrating oneself, the potential alternative activities are almost limitless. Yes, the religious look forward to their services, especially those that involve peyote (if you’re a lucky member of one of these religions), but not all the time. And it’s the duty of attendance that is an ever-present burden. The compelling thought is that if you don’t go and enjoy it, then you won’t get the goodies at death. Even the die-hard Buddhist needs to get up before dawn to be ready to drop some food in the monks’ begging bowls, although in my neighborhood this is mostly done by the maids, as I expect the owners prefer to sleep in a bit or need to get to work early to beat the traffic. The monks come around at about 6 AM in my neighborhood.

So believers are jealous that atheists don’t have to feel guilty if they go out for a bacon sandwich and a beer on a Friday night, or go fishing on Sunday morning, or eat during the fast, or go to special services on religious holidays that really aren’t much fun at all, like Ash Wednesday for Christians. They are jealous of our freedom to do as we wish, when we wish, and not to have anyone judge our decisions unlike some benevolent god who needs a weekly holiday and who wants us killed if we pick up sticks on certain days (as the Hebrews were inclined to do (Numbers 15:32-36)).

3. Jealous about Forbidden Fruits

Whether its alcohol, beef steak, smoked bacon, lobster, dog or horse meat, or some other delicacy, for some strange reason many gods have problems with certain food groups or eating certain things at the wrong times. Most Christians have an open field on this, and Taoists are happy to eat anything that moves, and some which don’t. Some Buddhists, Hindus and all Jains eschew the eating of animals. But even Catholics have fast days and used to have meatless days. The Pythagoreans may have eschewed beans.

Many of them have guilt about when they drink or consume. Christianity doesn’t really talk about drugs, but a prohibition on them is one of the cultural parasites that has become attached to most Christian faiths. Alcohol is taboo for Muslims. And for some, it’s not enough that they limit what they eat, it has to be killed in a particularly cruel way too. For many believers, it must be like being a kid in a candy store, able to see the tantalizing variety but forbidden to taste all of the brightly colored delights. While the atheists are the kids in the candy store with money to buy anything and everything they want, whenever they want. No fasting, no lent for making dietary sacrifices, just see it, smell it, crave it, savor it and hungrily devour it. Burping is optional.

4. Jealous about Lack of Prejudice

Most atheists I know have been atheistic for a long time. This is of course because I am an old guy and most of my friends are of a similar age. For us, we just don’t care about religion. We are not anti-Catholic, anti-Shinto, or anti-anything. We are not Islamophobes or Christ haters. We are not now, and most of us have never been, angry about religion. We simply don’t care, as it’s not part of our lives any more than is Greek or Norse Mythology. This drives believers nuts, because they can’t stop caring. They are jealous of our detachment.

Not only are we detached, but we also fail to fulfil what for many of them is an integral part of their self-image; namely, that of the persecuted minority. The funny thing is that even religious majorities in their own environments often delight in thinking of themselves as being persecuted, despised and suffering for their faith. They want us to hate them, because that then reinforces their image of being in the right and suffering for it. They are unique, special, and others hate them because non-believers are jealous of the believers’ special relationship with god.

Why don’t atheists care? What don’t they hate? Why don’t they seethe with anathema for rival cults? Many atheists couldn’t care less. No emotion is wasted on this, no sleep is lost over the perceived advances or failures of one Faith or another. We don’t care about what for many believers is the most important thing in their lives, and it just bores us to tears. They know they would be happier if they could just accept their superiority and not worry about other faiths, but they can’t.

5. Jealous about Doubt

Most honest believers will admit to having had doubts, and they usually feel guilty about them. They know they are not supposed to doubt, and every time a prayer is not answered, a level in meditation not achieved, some objective in life not delivered to the worthy, they doubt. Every time they doubt, they feel unworthy of the divine love or support they think is there. They don’t believe in other faiths, and many of them know that their religious explanations of life’s experiences are weak.

Atheists don’t seem to have doubts, but believers love to imagine that they do. They want us to be twisted with doubts over our eventual disposition upon death. They want to believe that we doubt Darwin the same way they doubt scripture, and need to close their eyes and accept it as it is or come up with some explanation for it. Even the now beatified Mother Teresa was riven with doubts, as shown in her private correspondence after her death ("Mother Teresa: Come Be My Light". When atheists don’t show any sign of this weakness, believers are jealous of our contentment.

6. Jealous of our Attraction

Almost every human society has some cultural stories about protecting its people, especially its women, from the “others.” Taking their women/men away from the tribe is often punished with death. Atheists are the ultimate tempters in this regard. We are always outside of the tribe; we are exotic; we are different; we are forbidden fruit; we represent a desirable exotic compared to their ordinary lives. Anyone who has lived in another culture can confirm that curiosity is a powerful aphrodisiac. And the allure of the profane, the forbidden, is potent indeed. This is amplified when the lust is itself profane, as is often the case with homosexuality and transsexuality.

They may not marry us, or even want to admit to the relationship, but they are willing to take the car for a test drive, as it were. There is also the added enticement of the thrill of trying to convert someone to their way of belief. They are jealous of our ability to subvert their control over people of their faith, of our attraction as something different and engaging. The thrill of danger clings to us like the most potent of musk aromas.

7. Jealous of our Forbidden Knowledge

No matter how self-confident some believers are, they just can’t get over the nagging fear that maybe atheists know something more than they do. That is why we usually get called arrogant, because they don’t have any other argument in their sometimes limited debating repertoire. They especially hate it when we know more about their scriptures than they do, or we have a logical argument that they can’t overcome and so chose to ignore.

When they talk together, they feel sorry for us poor misguided souls, who fail to perceive the righteousness of their beliefs, the inescapable logic of their propositions, and the compelling eloquence of their rhetoric. But they often know that they are lacking. Many times the information itself is something taboo to them. It’s the intellectual equivalent of seeing Darwin as a 1950’s American teenager would have seen Lady Chatterley’s Lover or Lolita or Nana. But many have tried to read these forbidden tomes, only to find them beyond their understanding. Science is not like a titillating Story of O readily accessible to anyone with reasonable English skills. Reading the Origin of Species, or Das Kapital, or Beyond Good and Evil, or even Newton’s Principa Mathematica written back in 1687, is difficult without sufficient background. There are many popular science books, and even television programs, but without a basic background much of this is beyond their comprehension, like me trying to understand string theory without an understanding of the underlying mathematics. I understand the descriptive explanation, to some extent, but understanding which can only come from mastery of the equations lies forever beyond my grasp.

I do offer a caveat here, as there are many very intelligent believers. For them this jealousy does not exist, at least not in the same way as it does for others who fail to understand the compelling beauty, which is often offered by science as an alternative to mythology as an explanation of our world’s wondrous and often fierce majesty. For them, they merely chose to accommodate their knowledge with their beliefs, in what for many others would be an unharmonious marriage.

8. Jealous over our Enjoying the Holidays

One thing that never fails to amaze me is how some people can’t understand how atheists can have a good time at Diwali, Christmas, Eid al-Fitr, or whatever (with the possible exception of Jewish Passover, as I dislike celebrating the mass murder of innocent people). We can celebrate everything, and enjoy them all. We can have a nice meal and enjoy the company of others and the festival atmosphere, and not worry about all the metaphysical baggage. Perhaps more than any other people, atheists can truly enjoy the holidays for what they are, a celebration of human and familial community. There is little to match the jealousy of a believer witnessing a non-believer having a good time which the believer doesn’t think they are entitled to.

If you haven’t figured it out by now, believers are really jealous of one thing alone – our freedom. Freedom from the chains of religion that bind the mind and stifle the human spirit. Freedom from the blanket of doctrine which strives to hide our imagination and spontaneity. Freedom from dogma that they can’t really understand but are fearful to disobey. They live in fear of doing the wrong thing, which will offend a vengeful god or the laws of the universe, which will result in their coming to harm. They are jealous of our freedom from fear.



http://www.atheistrepublic.com/blog/deandrasek/8-reasons-believers-hate-atheists

truthman2013:
Oga, your useless thread has been debunked. I am not obliged to force you to accept the truth, it is your decision to make. It is just pitiable that you have succeded in evading the salient question(s) posed at you. Perhaps it would have set you free had you attempt them.

.truthman..

malvisguy212:
“Two men read a Surah which the
apostle of God had taught them, yet
one night they rose up to pray but
they failed to remember one word of
it. The next morning, they went to the
apostle of God and related it to him.
He told them, ‘It is one of those,
which have been abrogated, thus,
forget about it …”’ (Refer to the Itqan,
3:74).
UNBELIEVABLE!!! This is pure contradiction.Can you believe this? Not only is the forgetfulness of the Prophet is taken as an indication of abrogation by Allah but even the forgetfulness of ordinary Muslims were considered as such. What happened to the written verses. Were they a
re ?
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 48,
Number 823:
Narrated By ‘Aisha : The Prophet
heard a man (reciting Qur’an) in the
Mosque, and he said, “May Allah
bestow His Mercy upon him. No
doubt, he made me remember such-
and such Verses of such-and-such
Surah WHICH I DROPED (FROM MY MEMORY).
Muhammad forgot some verses and one
of his friends reminded him of them.
However, when there was no one to
remind him, he claimed that these
verses have been abrogated by Allah. We saw this to be true previously when two of his followers told him that they had forgotten some of the verses which he had taught them. Muhammad told them that these verses “have been abrogated, thus, forget about it.” In truth, the doctrine of abrogation is nothing more than an implicit admission that the Qur’an contradicts itself. This is true because a verse is considered to be abrogated only when two verses cannot be reconciled with each other. In other words, when two verses in the Qur’an contradict each other.

truthman2013:
Oga, your useless thread has been debunked. I am not obliged to force you to accept the truth, it is your decision to make. It is just pitiable that you have succeded in evading the salient question(s) posed at you. Perhaps it would have set you free had you attempt them.

.truthman..

malvisguy212:
Why do people generally think that some actions are “right” and some actions are “wrong,” regardless of their subjective opinions? Why do most people believe that it is “evil” or “wicked” (1) for an adult to torture an innocent child simply for the fun of it? (2) for a man to beat and rape a kind, innocent woman? or (3) for parents to have children for the sole purpose of abusing them sexually every day of their lives?

Although objective morality may be
outside the realm of the scientific
method, every rational person can know
that some actions are innately good,
while others are innately evil. the man
who says that it is morally acceptable To
Molest little children, is just as mistaken
as the man who says that 2 + 2 = 5”
Most rational people do not merely feel
like rape and child abuse may be wrong; they are wrong innately wrong. Just as two plus two can really be known to be four, every rational human can know that some things are objectively good, while other things are objectively evil.

However, reason demands that
OBJECTIVE GOOD AND EVIL can only exist if there is some REAL, objective point of REFERENCE. If something (e.g., rape) can be legitimately criticized as morally wrong, then there must be an objective standard “some ‘higher law which transcends the provincial and transient’ which is other than the particular moral code and which has an obligatory character which can be recognized”

How can an atheists call something atrocious,wicked or evil? According to atheism, man is nothing but matter in motion . Humankind allegedly evolved from ape or should we say rocks and slime over billions of years. How could moral value come from rocks and slime? Who ever speaks of “wrong rocks,” “moral minerals,”or “corrupt chemicals ? People do not talk about morally depraved donkeys, evil elephants, or immoral monkeys.Pigs are not punished for being immoral when they eat their young. Komodo dragons are not corrupt because 10% of their diet consists of younger Komodo dragons. Killer whales are not guilty of murder. Male animals are not tried for rape if they appear to forcibly copulate with females. Dogs are not depraved for stealing the bone of
another dog. Moral value could not arise from rocks and slime.

The fact that humans even contemplate
morality testifies to the huge chasm
between man and animals and the fact
that moral value could not have arisen
from animals. Atheistic evolutionists
have admitted that morals arise only in
humans.

The moral argument for God’s existence
exposes atheism as the self contradictory, atrocious philosophy that
it is. Atheists must either reject the
truthfulness of the moral argument’s first premise (“If objective moral value exists, then God exists”) and illogically accept the indefensible idea that objective morality somehow arose from rocks and reptiles, or (2) they must reject the argument’s second premise (“Objective moral values exist”), and accept the insane, utterly repulsive idea that genocide, rape, murder, theft, child
abuse, etc. can never once be condemned as objectively “wrong.”
What’s more,if atheism is true, individuals could never logically be
punished for such immoral actions, since“no inherent moral or ethical laws” would exist.

Sanchez01:
Thanks. Long time indeed

davien:
I cited the bible and asked for an objective evaluation of that situation...like saying is it okay for superman to keep arresting lex luthor?

So is it okay for a father to kill his son to forgive?

dalaman:
When Muslims try to explain the Koran for you by trying also to explain things in context you say the are lying. But when clear absurdities are found in the bible you throw 20 verses and claim context.

davien:
All claimed in the bible written by christians...not on historical records.

krattoss:
Matthew 5:22
22But I say to you that whoever is angry
with his brother without a cause shall be
in danger of the judgment. And whoever
says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger
of the council. But whoever says, ‘You
fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.



29If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it
out and cast it from you; for it is more
profitable for you that one of your members
perish, than for your whole body to be cast
into hell.


I know u. U will go any lenght to twist even if it means scrambling the words or reading upside down in other to prove or defend ur skyfairyhydra headed mummy monster

frosbel:
Deuteronomy 22:28-29

" If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."

Did God really command this ?

Imagine a girl recovering from the trauma and shame of rape , then forced to live with the criminal and bear his children.

Floor open.....................

Sanchez01:
So you think indoctrinated Christians lack knowlegde? Let me take some time out to explain and confirm and perhaps add to what you claim you got from Christians.

True, there is resurrection, there is death and there is sleep (not literary).

So, what is resurrection: Resurrection for Christians is the act by which one defies and challenges common knowledge, and science by which an entity or a being who dies return without being aided. Please get this as it is very important.

What is death? Death is a the cessation between the mind and the body. Another school of thought also says it is the termination of all biological functions
that sustain a living organism.

What then is "sleep" in Christianity? This is a word used in place of death. There are many reasons this word is used.

1. These are words of Christ to His followers. What this implies is that Christians have a place that is not in the world. Though we function here, we do not belong here. While the mind and body functions here, the soul which is that of God is the ideal body for "that place".

2. Christ was the first to ever use the word "SLEEP". for the dead -
John 11:11 . Funny Christ used the word "sleep" for a body that had been dead and buried for four days. We know what happened next, rather, I'll suggest you get a Bible to know this.

3. RAPTURE: But of course Muslims don't believe this, or do they? No! Since Christ promised a place the need body for that place is a faultless 'body', a body that would neither yield to the demands of the flesh nor want them. For example; Matthew 22:23-30.

While these folks were concerned about who gets the wife, Christ reveals that a different body that would not give thoughts to pleasures would be traded. Then again, read this: 1 Corinthians 15:51-57

I sincerely hope you and others read this before mocking Christians

Finally, WHY DID JESUS USE "SLEEP" for DEATH AND WHY DO CHRISTIANS DO SO?
Having known that sleep and death mean the same, Christians prefer to use the word "sleep" because we understand that here is not our place. After God had formed man, he let out His breath into man and gave him a little spirit, an incorruptible body. Hence, when the flesh rots, this other body returns to God (for Christians) Eccl 12:7
However, many souls will not return because they have long been sold to the devil and his agents through wars, hate, greed, lust, etc.
When a soul "DIES" such is "DAMNED", condemned and irreedemable. This is why Christians say "sleep" because they shall be resurrected to God.

abduljabbar4:
Exactly

osile2012:
Stephanie Rose has said she will rather burn in hell than worship GOD. Also refering to GOD as a monster. To me, its either she is seeking attention or frustrated.

She sighted some verses in the bible and claims GOD is the devil. We seem to forget that GOD is not quarreling with the devil.Even when the devil appeared to tempt JESUS after the 40 days fast, there was no fight. Gods word is final, the devil rebelled and judgement was pronounced. The devil had to establish his own kingdom above the earth.

So it goes in this manner.

The Kingdom of GOD (Heaven which is above all)

Principalities and powers in High places (above the earth)

The earth where man dwells.

This is why when daniel prayed, the answers were hijacked at the realm above the earth. Christians operate physically on earth, but have access to the kingdom above that of darkness. This position is through christ, that gives the ability to access the presence of GOD and change things that have been planned in the kingdom of Darkness. In the kingdom of darkness, their plans are written with pencil, those who have access the kingdom of heaven can erase plans made in the kingdom of darkness and rewrite them.

-Ephesians 1:20-22-
which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church.

She also spoke about the evil things done by GOD. GOD said in his word that all powers belong to him, this includes the one used by the devil. We are made in the image of GOD, this means that GOD can get angry, he can be happy. Like a father will get angry and discipline his child, so does he. Fathers discipline their children because they are older and know better.

GODS love for his compels him to discipline them, this is because he does not want them to fall into the dangers ahead. A father would spank a child for playing with fire in the house, this is a preventive measure against the danger ahead. So GOD uses his powers to discipline those he cares about sometimes.

The bible tells us that the devil still appears in the presence of GOD to accuse the brethren. This can be seen in the case of JOB where GOD and the devil had a conversation .

GOD is like an Internet service Provider (ISP). He provides internet for both those that use it for genuine purposes and those that use it for fraud. All powers come from him.

davien:
So is Jesus in human form on earth now?

krattoss:
A loving god who sends his acclaimmed loved ones to hell for not obeying his orders but teaches us to forgive whoever wrong us is called what?



Slowpoke? Barbarian? As$hole?

davien:
What would you call someone who slaughters his son to forgive?

davien:
Why?...Because he doesn't use 20 verses to justify a despicable one?