₦airaland Forum

dalaman:
Why do you keep lying? I asked you to show me any bible verse that says that all the slavery conducted was because the people were poor.

You brought a verse that has nothing at all to do with it. Lets look at the verse from a clearer translation.

Leviticus 25:35New International Version (NIV)

35 “‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you.

Again , where does it state that slavery was because of poverty. It says you can buy and sell slaves, nothing about poverty was mention. It remains your own prevarication.

dalaman:
Where is it written inside the bible that all the slavery was due to poverty?

davien:
Did you realize Foreigners could pay the "thieves" without any knowledge of them not being slaves?

Again,why not just throw out slavery, why the run around?

Redlyn:
See this guy snaking around

The question is not whether or not god has laws about how to manage slaves.
The question is why does god not condemn Slavery.

"slavery was initiated by the slave" chai

dalaman:
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34

davien:
Did you bother reading my post?..
I asked why it was so easy to give laws against murder and yet so hard to do the same for slavery?

truthman2012:
Exactly so - ''QUESTION God's statement, CONTRADICT God's statement and urge REBELLION against God''.

The atheists have soft spot for islam, yet they say their is no God, is allahh not a god?

There is a meeting point for atheism and islam as the deity that is responsible for atheists not believing in God is the one who is also responsible for muslims believing in false god.

dalaman:
The African slave trade was perpetrated by christians who got their inspiration from the bible. The first slave ship that left the African coast with slaves to England in 1562 was called the "The Good Ship Jesus".

davien:
Malvisguy212,just tell me one reason why god could allegedly say "thou shalt not kill" easily but refused to condemn slavery....instead,giving instructions of how much a human being should be worth,to be allowed to beat a slave near-death and escape justice if he/she didn't die within a couple of days,along with other inhumane "laws" ?

Delusiongirl20:
Repeating same thing over and over again.

dalaman:
It's actually worse. Those that practice slavery today know there are doing a bad thing so they hide their business away and conduct it in the dark. Your God saw nothing wrong with people buying and owning each other as slaves.

dalaman:
If it were Islam this shameless malvisguy22 will come and be splitting hairs and telling us how it is all wrong, but as long as it is christianity then he will find their weirdest of lies to explain away absurdities and craziness.

Delusiongirl20:
All these faking and twisting is the major reasons i left Christianity. Trying to justify the unjustifiable.

dalaman:
Why do you like lying shamelessly? Let me put it again.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)


Please tell, where does it state that the slaves are debtors? It clearly states that you may purchase slaves. Are you trying to say it means you may purchase debtors? What the hell is wrong with you guys? don't you have any shame? Christian altaquiya.

Delusiongirl20:
what did tanak or quran say about the same topic?

dalaman:
Dishonest arguments from people like Malvisguy212 and Scholar8200 is part of the reason rational people will keep leaving christianity. They really need to be ashamed of themselves.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

The bible very clearly has it's God telling people how to buy slaves and pass them as inheritance because they are property. To show that God knew it was bad he told them not to treat their relatives or the people of Israel in the same manner.

The morality of most people alive today definitely did not come from this sadistic moral giver. Assuming that there is a moral giver anywhere.

malvisguy212:
Agnostics will say God has abandoned his creatures,infacte,At this point, some doubters will say to me, "You said many things that are logical, and that is why I cannot say categorically that there is no God. But I'm an agnostic, because even if there is a God, I doubt we can know this Being." I have heard this argument before, but it makes no logical sense. Let me explain:

Why would a Creator go through the
trouble of making a huge universe, with
billions of galaxies containing billions of
stars, so that the proper elements of life
can exist on our side of the universe to
form life?Then the Creator goes through
the extent of putting a God- consciousness in us to make us aware of
God's existence. Then the Being giving us a conscience to feel responsibility to the Creator. Then He puts eternity in our hearts so that we cannot help but believe we will live forever. Considering all this, why would a Creator leave us alone and remain unknowable?

It is clear that since the Creator went
through all this, then He intends for us to find Him. Paul said it this way to the
Athenians:
"God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us" (Acts 17:27).

It is, therefore, logical to think that God
would provide a way for us to reach Him.
WHICH RELIGION?
This is where we come to the subject of
religion. Religion is the system by which
people try to connect with God and
ultimately make peace with Him. It's that simple.

The trouble is that if humankind starts
the system, it is doomed for failure.
Instead, God would have to set up the
religion for humans to find Him. It is
logical that if God established creation,
gave us a God-consciousness, a moral
conscience, and a consciousness of
eternity, that He intends to establish a
religion that humans could find Him and be reconciled to Him.

Agnostics would argue that it is impossible to know which,if any religion
is true. However,logic convinces me that God must establish the true religion,
otherwise, He failed to provide a pathway for us to reach Him.It's illogical
for the Creator to go through all this
extent, only to fail at this point in
providing us a pathway to Himself.

There are three possible pathways to the Deity: pantheism, polytheism and
monotheism.

Which basic pathway is right? Pantheism sees the universe as God. For this pathway to be true, then the universe would have to be eternal. But we have seen through observable science that the universe is not eternal. It has a beginning and will one day have an end. Thus, pantheism is a false pathway to God.

Polytheism is a belief that multiple gods
created the universe. Even though this
could be true, the universe is one. In
fact, the word "uni-means one." There is
only one universe and the entire universe is subject to the same laws and
is connected to the whole. Therefore, it is more likely that only One Being created the one universe.

This means that monotheism would be
the proper pathway to God. This helps us in our search since there are only three major religions that are monotheistic:
Judaism, Christianity and Islam. All three could not be true, because they
contradict themselves at very important
points.

Of the three monotheistic religions, only
one teaches that the One God is revealed in Three Persons: Christianity. The other two agree that God is One and is revealed as One Person.
However, as I contemplate the universe,
is it possible that the Creator put His
fingerprints on the universe so we can
know what kind of God He is? The answer is yes. The universe, though it is one, is also three-dimensional.

There are three elements that make up
the universe: time, space and matter
(energy plus mass). They exist together to form the universe. Not only is the
universe made of these three trinitarian
elements, each of the elements are
made of three:

Time is made of past,present and future
Space is made of height,depth and width. Matter is made of solid, liquid and gas. This is no coincidence. It seems that the Creator put His trinitarian fingerprints on the universe so that humans would know the true religion.
Any ancient human could have seen
these three in one if they gave it much
thought. But now, through the invention of the microscope, we have discovered that even the building blocks of the universe, the atom, is made of three components: protons, electrons and neutrons. It's as if the Creator put His signature on the creation so humans could find the true religion.

Only Christianity has revealed the true
nature of God,one God in three Persons. God establish Christianity and gave us a revelation of His true Nature.

Christianity also claims that is the
fulfillment of the oldest monotheistic
religion: Judaism. In Judaism, there was
hope and expectation that the Messiah
would come to set the world right.

Christianity says that Jesus Christ is the
Messiah, and through Him the full
revelation of the Triune God was revealed.

Jesus did not want us to accept Him by
blind faith, because He said, "If anyone
chooses to do God's will, he will find out
whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own" (John 7:17). Jesus is saying that belief in Him and in His teachings will be proven true by its success. Success defined is the ability to connect with God, in addition to making people better. When people truly submit to the Lordship of Christ and follow His teachings, then they make the world around them better.

Islam cannot be taken serious because it's contradicts the true nature of God through the moral law, God who set this law will not allow man to break it easily,
Islam say if your good deed outweigh your bad deed ,Allah will forgave you. In other word, it doesent matter how much you sinned as long as you can do more good, God will forgive you. This contradicts the nature of holiness in God and this give man the right to sin even more as long as they can outweigh this sin with the good deed. I pray God open our eyes even more.

malvisguy212:
Christians often cite Psalm 14:1 as a
rebuke of atheists.However,the Hebrew
word translated "fool" doesn't have the
same connotations as the English word.
The passage actually says that we are all
foolish.

Psalm 14:1 is the verse that a lot of
Christians like to quote to atheists,
believing it is a rebuke of their atheism.
However, if we look at the entire
passage, we see a different picture:

Psalms 14:1-3: The fool says in his heart,
"There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good. (2) The LORD looks down from heaven on the sons of men to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God. (3) All have turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.

Christians usually only quote the first
half of Psalm 14:1, as if it is a slap in the
face to atheists. Is this really a verse
against atheism?

FOOL'S CHARACTERISTIC.
The second half of verse 14:1 says "They
are corrupt, their deeds are vile." At first, you might think that the "they" are those who disbelieve in the existence of God.
However, the end of verse 14:1 says
"there is no one who does good." One
might still think that the verse is referring to atheists. However, Psalm 14:2-3 make it clear that as God looks down on all people, He can find none who are not corrupt, emphasizing it with "not even one."

The Hebrew word translated "fool" is
nâbâl, which is an adjective having the
meaning of "stupid, wicked" or "vile
person." It comes from the root verb
nâbêl, which means "to fall away,"
"figuratively to be foolish or (morally)
wicked" or "causatively to despise,
disgrace: - disgrace, dishonour." So, the
Hebrew word nâbâl refers more to bad
moral character rather than just being
stupid. He is foolish because he thinks
God will not notice his bad behavior.

WHO IS THE FOOL?
The passage makes it clear that God can
find nobody who does good or even tries to understand God's ways. From God's perspective, not one person attains His standard of moral behavior. So, God sees all of us as fools. We all like to compare our behavior to that of others. Example!! When I was still a sinners(atheists)I was morally superior to most Christians. However, I was still not measuring up to God's moral code.

HOW TO MEASURE UP.
Unless you think you can lead a perfectly moral life, God has a solution for your problem. God's solution is to allow you to trade your moral imperfection for the moral perfection of Jesus Christ. The trade is accomplished through faith in Jesus' sacrifice as payment for your sins. The offer is really generous, but will cost you your self-righteousness. No, you can't remain an atheist either. As the psalmist says, you must "seek God."

CONCLUSION
The fool says there is no God. But, he is
not foolish because he is an atheist, but
because he thinks he can get away with
bad moral behavior. Psalm 14 goes on to say that all people are corrupt and there is not even one who does good. So, God says that we are all immoral fools. It is only through faith in Jesus Christ that we He can measure up to the moral perfection required by a Holy God. So what the verse is saying is DON'T BE A FOOL AND THINK YOU CAN MAKE IT ON YOUR OWN.

malvisguy212:
by Eric Lyons, M.Min.

Three times in the book of Acts, Luke the physician recorded non-Christians asking what they needed to do to be saved, and three times a different answer was given.

The heathen jailor from Philippi asked
Paul and Silas, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?,” and was told: “BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND YOU WILL BE SAVED” (16:30-31).

The Jews on Pentecost asked the apostles, “Men and brethren,what shall we do?,” and were instructed to“REPENT AND BE BAPTISED ” (2:37-38).

A few years later, Saul (later called Paul
Acts 13:9) asked Jesus, Who appeared to
Saul on his way to Damascus, “Lord, what do you want me to do?” (9:6; 22:10). After being told to go into Damascus to find out what he “must do” to be saved, Ananias, the Lord’s servant, commanded Saul to “RISE AND BE BAPTISED, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord” (22:16).
The question that many ask is: “Why are three different answers given to the same question?” Are these answers contradictory, or is there a logical explanation for their differences?

The reason that three different answers
were given to the question of salvation is because on each occasion the
questioners were at different “locations”
on the road to salvation. The rationality
of such answers can be illustrated by
considering what a person is told in
reference to his physical distance from a certain city. If a friend calls me to ask
how far it is from his house in Jackson,
Tennessee to my parents’ house in
Neosho, Missouri, I would inform him
that he is 475 miles from Neosho. If he
calls me back the next day, notifying me
that he is now in Little Rock, Arkansas,
and asks about the distance to Neosho, I would give him a different answer. He
now would be 260 miles from Neosho. If,later that evening, he called me one last time and asked how far Fort Smith is from Neosho, again I would give him a different answer— 130 miles. No rational person would accuse me of contradicting myself, since each question was asked from a different reference point. Three different answers were given, but all three were correct. Likewise, the New Testament records three different answers given to the question, “What must I do to be saved,” because the sinners who asked these questions were at different places of understanding on the road to salvation.

The Philippian jailor was commanded to
believe in Christ, because he had not yet heard and believed the saving message of Jesus (Acts 16:31-32; Romans 10:17). It would have been pointless for Paul and Silas to command the jailor to repent and/or be baptized when he had not yet even heard the Gospel. If today, a Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist, asked a Christian the same question the Philippian jailor asked Paul and Silas, the same answer would need to be given.

Before ever teaching a Muslim about the essentiality of repentance and baptism, he first must express belief in Jesus as the Son of God. If this step (i.e.,
believing) is never taken on the road to
salvation, the other steps are
meaningless. [NOTE: The Bible reveals
that after Paul and Silas “spoke the word of the Lord” to the jailor and his
household, they believed and
“immediately” were baptized (Acts 16:33).

By implication, Paul and Silas must have
taught the jailor and his family about the essentiality of baptism after stressing the need to “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ” (cf. Acts 8:35-36,38). Question: If water baptism has nothing to do with salvation, then why were the jailor and his household immersed in water not long after midnight (cf. Acts 16:25,33)?]

The Jews on Pentecost had already heard Peter’s sermon when they asked their question about salvation (Acts 2:37). Peter knew that they already believed,and that such belief came from hearing the message he preached (cf. Romans10:17). The Jews had passed the point of belief (being “pricked in their heart”), and were told to “repent and be baptized” in order to obtain salvation (cf. Mark 16:16).

Still, someone might wonder why
Ananias told Saul neither to believe nor
repent when he informed him about how to have his sins washed away. The
reason: Saul already was a penitent
believer in Christ by the time he came in contact with Ananias. Saul did not need to be told to believe or repent, since he had already done so. He knew the Lord existed, having spoken directly with Him on the road to Damascus, and he expressed a penitent attitude by praying to God and fasting for three days (Acts 9:9,11). At this point, Saul lacked only one thing: he needed to be baptized (Acts 22:16).

The reason these sinners were told three different things regarding salvation was because they were at different starting points when given the various answers. It is as if the jailor were in Jackson, Tennessee, the Jews on Pentecost in Little Rock, Arkansas, and Saul in Fort Smith. All wanted to go to the same place, but were at different starting points when they asked the question,“What must I do to be saved?” The unbeliever was told to believe. The
believers were told to repent. And the
penitent believer was told to be
baptized. The three statements may be
different, but they are not contradictory.
For a person to become a child of God,
he or she must do all three (see John
8:24; Luke 13:3,5; Matthew 28:19; Mark
16:16).

Delusiongirl20:
people should continue to sin like you so as to be save by grace. ok

dodging my attack

Delusiongirl20:
Quoting all verses makes me uncomfortable,why not quote from quran too, so that we compare the one that is most suitable.

Delusiongirl20:
have you a ever sin before. any sin at all

Delusiongirl20:
there is these two guys you have to refer that question to = malvisguy212, Scholar8200

krazydave:
So, I was talking with a friend recently and we got into an
argument, and we'd like to clarify...


How does it work, I live my life faithful as a Christian obeying
every single word of God as best as I can ....*avoiding babes,
Origin, and even Alomo*


Then on the last day (rapture and fire works), trumpets on
the Angel's mouth, clocks tickling, few minutes to the end..... I
tell a lie, or probably insulted my wife or some 'minor' sin......


Does that cancel out my entire decade of righteousness?
Does it mean I no longer get to make heaven??
Scholars in the House please help.

Delusiongirl20:
Why are there so many versions of christainity. More than 100000 thousand denominations under one umbrella of a holy book. Doesn't that point to something.

But at least in Islamism, Judaism etc, they have few divisions, not up to ten in each.



Still Christianity thrives more than any other.

Scholar8200:
The Truth is Jesus: The Way, The TRUTH and The Life, NO man comes to the Father but by Him!

Delusiongirl20:
this is the kind of argument that do makes me to dislike all these Christian apologists trying too hard to find reasons to cover up vivid argument.

davien:
How am I insincere by saying I make amends?..

Delusiongirl20:
Where is the reconciliation or are you trying to replace change to reconciliation so as to sound paradoxical.

davien:
I make amends and move on..

davien:
Explain vividly...

Delusiongirl20:
That's what i am telling him, there is no way he can twist slavery as represented in the bible to justify that god didn't support the act and still gave directives on how to manage it

davien:
How is it not yours to take when the action is solely towards you....again you keep trying to attribute actions and responsibilities away from the concerned individuals...