₦airaland Forum

PastorAIO:
You have made an error.

Nobody 'creates' moral values for themselves. Morality is instinctive. You don't create sexual desire, it is an instinct. when you see a fine woman there is no contrivance involved in the raising of your phallus. It happens automatically.

Now that is probably a great example because just as there are a multiplicity of moral codes there also a variety of sexual types. Some phallus' raise for fat girls, some raise for short girls, others raise for chanel perfume, while others raise only for oyinbo. There is no single standard of a sexually alluring person. Sexuality develops along various lines in different people. So it is with Morality.

PastorAIO:
This one is more than circular, it loops and dives and 'boomerangs' upon itself in a variety of ways.

1) From the very start, you have God right there in the premises. 'God created everything'.

2) Why bother with the evil part. why not just say, God created Good and there are good things in the world so therefore God exists. The evil part is an extra appendage.

3) Evil is not a thing, and neither is Good. It is a functional state of things. Both are. A knife chopping vegetables for dinner is good for the diners. a knife stuck in someone's gut is evil. Good and evil functions can be found for just about any object. None of these suggest the existence of God in the slightest.

4)The idea of evil as a lack of deficiency of good is Rubbish. when a knife is slicing your guts nothing in the knife is deficient. The knife remains intact. Rather Good and Evil are interwoven like Yin and Yang. They are two sides of a single coin. You cannot say one side is based on the other side. The nonexistence of one is also the nonexistence of the other. There is no such thing as UP if there is no such thing as DOWN.

PastorAIO:
Yes, I believe that many people have invented their 'God'.

Command: What about the command that you give to a Computer?
What about all the commands that you give to yourself? When you want to lose weight and you put yourself on a diet, have you not commanded yourself to only eat so much and at set times?

Again, having a moral Law (objective or not) doesn't necessarily have anything to do with any Law giver.

PastorAIO:
Yes, I'm a theist. The word christian means nothing to me, but I'm a theist.

I do not agree that the presence of evil indicates that a god exists. If anything it actually casts doubt on the existence of God if indeed such a god is omnipotent.

PastorAIO:
I've explained that Morality can be put down to Instinct. Like all instincts if it can be proved to facilitate survival then we can understand how it would evolve. Then Morality can serve also as an explanation for why people would invent a god as you are aptly demonstrating that you have difficulty imagining one without the other.

PastorAIO:
I don't recall making any excuses for anything. I was simply answering your questions.




Genesis 3
The Fall
3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

In this tale, was the serpent, an animal, evil? (Not that I believed the serpents talk, but I'm sure you do.)

another consideration: when A dog steals bone or meat will it stand there innocently eating the bone or will it immediately run away and eat it in a hiding place. If the dog has no sense of doing wrong then why is it hiding?



You've confused Legality with Morality. Slavery was once legal but it didn't sit right with some people's sense of morality and so they advocated to get it changed.

I have no record of Canaanites committing any evil. Perhaps you can tell me what it is they did. anyway, the bottom line is that according to you it can be okay to commit genocide and not be morally evil.

If you cannot blame the Hebrews as evil for killing Canaanites, then how do you want to blame Nazis as evil for killing Jews.

PastorAIO:
What about Animals?? Animals make choices too, yes. Dogs, for instance, They love to poo everywhere but after some training they only poo in the right place. Of course the dog still feels like pooing but if it is in the house it must make the decision due to it's training to wait until it is taken for a walk before it poos. Is that what you're getting at?



No!



How are you sure that they don't make moral decisions?

Do you have any examples of any decisions that are not moral decisions?



Let me answer you with a similar question.

The Hebrews committed mass genocide against the Canaanites as recorded in the bible, due to directive from Yahweh. Will you call this directive good?

Rilwayne001:
Pastopreneur: Most lucrative business in the world.

Malvisguy212 When are you going to become a pastor?

Demmzy15:
Bla Bla Bla Bla.... Every reasonable person knows I've dealt with this issue extensively, but you're yet to answer my question. [size=18pt]Why did 12year old Mary have marry 90years old Joseph? Why did 14year old Mary have sex with 92year old Joseph?![/size]

PastorAIO:
Because humans have a moral instinct. Instincts are not Rational things and can be quite divorced from our thoughts and beliefs. For example, We all have a survival instinct. Why? Is survival better than death? Even people living in the most abject state of deprivation will still struggle to survive. Even people who believe in a better life after death will still do everything in their power to avoid death.

It can be argued that due to the fact that humans are instinctively moral we then project an image of a Law giver. In other words our instinctive morality is an explanation for why we've invented God rather than the other way of God being an explanation for our morality.

The big difficulty lies in the fact that no two cultures, nay, no two people share exactly the same moral code. This might point to a multiplicity of Gods. Otherwise we'd have to explain how a single Law giver would give such a diversity of laws to humankind.

Scholar8200:
@Demmzy, one of the reason I may not agree with the issue on ages is that before 90yrs old, (as early as Genesis) Abraham (around 86) was past the years of pleasure and Romans described his body as being dead. David died at the age of 70 and before his death, 1Kings 1:2-4 shows how he was totally past the age of sexual pleasure! Therefore, for a man that was many generations after David, pleasure at the age of 90 is totally impossible!!!

Now let's consider Numbers 31:18
18 But all the young women who have not had sexual intercourse with a man will be yours.

Speaker: Moses
Audience: selected soldiers (not all Israel)
Event: After the retaliatory battle (see Num 31:2) against the midianites (the Old testament dispensation allowed tit for tat and the midianites were the initiators this time.)
Tenor of Command: One-off (Not to be continued)
Dispensation: Old
Applicable Today: No. The Old covenant was fulfilled through Christ Who ushered in the New as purposed by the Father

Demmzy15:
**draws his ears** Robot read my posts carefully, I explained everything clearly for you. Don't be dumb!

Demmzy15:
This is your problem, just blind copy and paste. Everything you state here has been dealt with right from first reply to Scholar820, but you want me to keep repeating myself. Now why is the Apocryphal a weak argument? Why did 12year old Mary marry 90year old Joseph? Their ages aren't in the Bible, so therefore we can go to external sources for their ages. They must have ages and that's the bone of contention.

Trottle:
provide answer to this question with biblical verse
- Who is God: Is he a human or a deity or both?
- Did God have a son or not?
- Where in the bible were the christians commanded to go to church on Sunday?
- where in the bible were you commanded to go to jerusalem for pilgrimage?
Answer to these questions any christian "intellectual"?
adullam210
truthman2012
thanks.

kestolove95:
Nop but u must b a muslim b4 making any comment on islamic post cox some dude talk rubbish abt islam

malvisguy212:
Why do people generally think that some actions are “right” and some actions are “wrong,” regardless of their subjective opinions? Why do most people believe that it is “evil” or “wicked” (1) for an adult to torture an innocent child simply for the fun of it? (2) for a man to beat and rape a kind, innocent woman? or (3) for parents to have children for the sole purpose of abusing them sexually every day of their lives?

Although objective morality may be
outside the realm of the scientific
method, every rational person can know
that some actions are innately good,
while others are innately evil. the man
who says that it is morally acceptable To
Molest little children, is just as mistaken
as the man who says that 2 + 2 = 5”
Most rational people do not merely feel
like rape and child abuse may be wrong; they are wrong innately wrong. Just as two plus two can really be known to be four, every rational human can know that some things are objectively good, while other things are objectively evil.

However, reason demands that
OBJECTIVE GOOD AND EVIL can only exist if there is some REAL, objective point of REFERENCE. If something (e.g., rape) can be legitimately criticized as morally wrong, then there must be an objective standard “some ‘higher law which transcends the provincial and transient’ which is other than the particular moral code and which has an obligatory character which can be recognized”

How can an atheists call something atrocious,wicked or evil? According to atheism, man is nothing but matter in motion . Humankind allegedly evolved from ape or should we say rocks and slime over billions of years. How could moral value come from rocks and slime? Who ever speaks of “wrong rocks,” “moral minerals,”or “corrupt chemicals ? People do not talk about morally depraved donkeys, evil elephants, or immoral monkeys.Pigs are not punished for being immoral when they eat their young. Komodo dragons are not corrupt because 10% of their diet consists of younger Komodo dragons. Killer whales are not guilty of murder. Male animals are not tried for rape if they appear to forcibly copulate with females. Dogs are not depraved for stealing the bone of
another dog. Moral value could not arise from rocks and slime.

The fact that humans even contemplate
morality testifies to the huge chasm
between man and animals and the fact
that moral value could not have arisen
from animals. Atheistic evolutionists
have admitted that morals arise only in
humans.

The moral argument for God’s existence
exposes atheism as the self contradictory, atrocious philosophy that
it is. Atheists must either reject the
truthfulness of the moral argument’s first premise (“If objective moral value exists, then God exists”) and illogically accept the indefensible idea that objective morality somehow arose from rocks and reptiles, or (2) they must reject the argument’s second premise (“Objective moral values exist”), and accept the insane, utterly repulsive idea that genocide, rape, murder, theft, child
abuse, etc. can never once be condemned as objectively “wrong.”
What’s more,if atheism is true, individuals could never logically be
punished for such immoral actions, since“no inherent moral or ethical laws” would exist.

joshua8016:
The koran says that jesus will help them the muslims defeat the jews.
The bible says that god will help the jews defeat the muslims and that the muslims are the sons of darkness according to the dead sea scrolls. This question has been bugging me for ages!

malvisguy212:
Sometimes Christians have a mistaken
definition of "faith". Because faith is
sometimes described as believing in
things that cannot be seen, Christians
often think of faith as an act of believing
in things that have no evidential basis. In essence, some Christians believe that "true faith" is believing in something in spite of the evidence or believing in something when there is no evidence to support the belief in the first place!
BIBLICAL DEFINITION OF FAITH;
But this is not the Biblical definition of
faith. While it is true that God is a Spirit
and cannot be seen, it is not true that
there is no evidence to support the
existence of the unseen God. While we
may not see anyone throw a rock in a
pond, we may indeed see the ripples
that the rock created on the surface of
the water and come to the belief that
someone threw a rock into the pond on
the basis of this evidence.

The Christian life is more than a life of
blind trust. It is a life of rational
examination that challenges each of us
to evaluate the evidence, form a
conclusion and then share that
conclusion with the world around us.
Let’s examine the Biblical model of
evidential faith:
CHRISTIANS ARE CALLED TO USE THEIR MIND>>>>"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandment." ( Matthew 22:37-38)

When we examine our world and the
evidence for the existence of God, we are worshipping God with our mind.it's either we love God with our mind or reject him, it's a choice.

CHRISTIANS ARE CALLED TO UNDERSTAND EVIDENCE>>>>Acts 17:31
31 because He has fixed a day in which
He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished PROOF
to all men by raising Him from the
dead.”
The Greek word used for "proof" in Acts
17:31 is "pistis". The word is derived
from "peitho" which is a Greek verb that
means "to convince by argument" that
something is either true or false.

CHRISTIANS ARE CALLED TO EXAMINE THEIR BELIEF>>>>1 Thessalonians
5:19-21
Do not quench the Spirit; do not
despise prophetic utterances. But
EXAMINE everything carefully; hold fast
to that which is good…
God wants us to know what we believe
and why we believe it. We’re not called to numbly trust everything that might be taught in our world today.Skepticism is important to the Christian
faith; skepticism causes us to examine
what we believe and search for the
evidence that confirms our beliefs. God
honors this kind of skepticism because
He knows that it leads to a deeper faith
in Him. There is a place for skepticism in the life of the Christian because it causes us to "examine the Scriptures daily".

CHRISTIANS ARE CALLED TO BE CONVINCED OF WHAT THEY BELIEVE>>>>2 Timothy 3:14
14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become CONVINCED of, knowing from whom you have learned them.
Conviction is the result of certainty, and
certainty is the result of evidential
confidence. We are called to be
convinced by mastering the evidence
that supports what we believe. The
Christians life is not one of "wishful
thinking" or "hope in the unreasonable". It is a life of certainty, grounded in the evidence.

CHRISTIANS ARE CALLED TO BE CASE MAKER>>>>1 Peter 3:15
15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your
hearts, always being ready to make a
defense to everyone who asks you to
give an account for the hope that is in
you, yet with gentleness and reverence;

Once we have examined the evidence
and have come to the conclusion that
Christianity is true, we are called to be
ready to make a strong defense for what
we believe.

IN CONCLUSION;
Christians can be "case makers" precisely because the Christian faith is an evidential faith. When we, as Christians, argue for the truth of the Christian Worldview, we are not sharing an opinion. There either is a God, or there is not. Jesus is that God, or He is not.
Salvation comes through Christ alone (as Jesus Himself maintained), or it does not. This is not a matter of opinion, personal preference or wishful thinking. The Christian faith is grounded in evidence that can be assessed and evaluated. The Christian faith is an evidential faith.

Kay17:
What is the difference between faith and blind faith?

Demmzy15:
Why is my argument weak?! Lemme first of all start with you!

Kay17:
You mean faith?

Kay17:
How does this make me aware of your God's existence? Don't you put the horse before the cart by asking me to believe there was a Thomas, a Jesus and a Judas; all these characters I am expected to believe to be truthful, and take that for God?!

Kay17:
So for me to find your God, I must either believe or assume a Spirit of God exists. Then accept certain effects as the handiwork of this spirit, and thus find God. Don't you think these are laborious assumptions to make?! Shouldn't I be more suspicious of the assumptions I make to prop up your God?

Demmzy15:
Are you sure or you just don't know?!



Yes according to the "Apocryphal" works.



I explained in my first post here what Jews consider adults. Read Mr. Man!