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Christianity Etc › Re: Why Evil Disproves Atheism by malvisguy212(op): 7:20pm On May 05, 2015

johnydon22:
How will an atheist even think evil has anything to do with a mythical being he doesnt share a belief in.. is this the way ur brain works . . you theist share that ideology. .

Prove your god exists first before attributing anything to it. . be it evil or good or event that happens.

I see, you guys are missing the points, we are not talking about the existence of God, it's ATHEISM, social network dominated by atheists, when ever disaster befall man, atheists blame God.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Evil Disproves Atheism by malvisguy212(op): 7:16pm On May 05, 2015

Pleatton,wordcat and Johnnydon.
Evil is a concept, God has nothing to do with it, man is responsible for the evil that befall him because of the choice he made.God decrees times of good things and times of judgment. God is not the author of evil.8 However, God does reward and punish on the basis of good and bad behavior. Therefore, God does bring judgment and calamity ( human authorities) .

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Evil Disproves Atheism by malvisguy212(op): 7:06pm On May 05, 2015

plaetton:
Lol.
Didn't you just read the beautiful rubbish I posted ?

The two hemispheres of your brain accommodate both good and evil, God and Satan, waging an internal and eternal war to dominate you, your thoughts, impulses and actions.

Evil is a concept ,because, just like good, it is the externalization of the dynamics of neural impulses.

That's why I asked you whether animals are evil or not.
If evil was a real thing, then animals and other living species would also be subject to its machinations.

Animals are neither evil or influenced by evil because evil is a purely human CONCEPT.

I read the post. Do you agreed evil got nothing to do with God ? Since evil is a concept.

Islam › Re: Without The Bible Quran Is Meaningless by malvisguy212: 7:02pm On May 05, 2015

truthman2012:
Your explanations do not change the point am making.

''No one knows the true interpretation except allah''. If only allah knows the true interpretation, how is it useful for you?

and this people will open there filty mouth and say the bible is corrupted. Unbelievable!!!

If only the muslims will read the quran and bible very well and see which book give details about abrahamic faith, muslims quote from the quran and say "perfected is the word" and it is the bible that is perfected the quran. I don't even think the quran made mention of ishmael mother.

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Evil Disproves Atheism by malvisguy212(op): 6:48pm On May 05, 2015

dalaman:
Do you feel sorry or regret when you do good to people? You only regret your actions and feel sorry after offending people and doing them bad. That according to the bible was what God did. He did bad amd felt sorry (regretted his action).

after I provide a link that answer your question, you are still repeating the same thing . Smh

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Evil Disproves Atheism by malvisguy212(op): 6:46pm On May 05, 2015

frank317:
Oh please... I feel so embarrassed reading your posts. Sooo off point.

What do u mean by he is insisting? Insisting on what? Why is it hard for you to make sense of what he is saying.

Go back and read your op and see the senselessness in it. Evil exists so your God exist... And someone is making you understand that evil is a concept. Its a word we use to describe and undesired hurtful act meted on us or to others by our fellow humans. It is not a being or an object. Now how can the presence of this concept prove your God exists? Is your God a concept too?

Isn't it funny that you guys are trying so hard to establish that your almigthy God that created the whole world, the God of Abraham that sent his only son to die for us exists?

How can a being have all these attributes yet proving his existence only has to do with feelings and manipulation of words. Now u are using evil to proof your all loving God.

Me think the presence of evil should make u see he does not exist.

If your God cannot prove himself to anyone.... Then perhaps he does not want to be seen. Ya all should leave the poor guy alone instead of making a mockery of him in the name of trying to prove his existence like he is crippled up there in heaven.

Pls what exactly is the purpose of believing God exists? How does that change anything?

you sooo arrogance and aggressive, you say evil is a concept, meaning God has nothing to do with the evil that befall man.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Evil Disproves Atheism by malvisguy212(op): 6:41pm On May 05, 2015

wordcat:
Joshua utterly killed and destroyed sixty cities to you it wasn't an evil but a will of god.

Joshua has don what he did, ok, does evil exist?

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Evil Disproves Atheism by malvisguy212(op): 6:39pm On May 05, 2015

plaetton:
Was the biblical Joshua evil ?
He coveted, invaded, burnt, looted and genocided the people of Jericho all in one o.rg.y of violence.
Was he evil or not ?

Also, kindly tell us if animals are capable of, or impervious to evil.
Which animals you think are evil, and which do you think are not ?

Johnny say evil was a concept, I want to hear your own view first.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Evil Disproves Atheism by malvisguy212(op): 10:44am On May 05, 2015

johnydon22:
Lmao am sure you dont know what a concept is that is what we are seeing here.

Evil is a concept means that it takes a mind to recognize that which negates good therefore is evil. . .

@bolded first prove your god before attributing any event to it..

read the op one more time. we are just
material molecular machines "dancing to the music" of our DNA (as Dawkins
himself put it). Right?

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Evil Disproves Atheism by malvisguy212(op): 10:38am On May 05, 2015

johnydon22:
Lmao one problem with you is that you lack common simple comprehension... HERE IS MY WORDS everyone reading this will see i said it hitlers holocaust is evil, now you are saying another thing different from what i said.. please i beg you, stop the straw man and stop misrepresenting my questions.

My question was simple; How were you able to recognize hilters action as evil

ok. I gave you an example of hitler but you are not satisfied, you keep on insisting.so hitler killed 6million Jews and to you it was a concept? How?

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Evil Disproves Atheism by malvisguy212(op): 10:31am On May 05, 2015

johnydon22:
habaaaa a very simple question, one example of evil and i get a long copy and paste that is not even within the context...

Cant you give one example of something you consider evil.

Now since clearly you are giving hitlers holocaust as an example which is a very nice example of evil..

Now can you tell me; How where you able to discern it was evil?

(please for crying out loud stop the copy and paste and make your answers snappy and tactful like mine...)

if evil is a concept, then whenever a disaster befalls mankind, God has nothing to do with it, it was a concept, agree?

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Evil Disproves Atheism by malvisguy212(op): 10:28am On May 05, 2015

johnydon22:
habaaaa a very simple question, one example of evil and i get a long copy and paste that is not even within the context...

Cant you give one example of something you consider evil.

Now since clearly you are giving hitlers holocaust as an example which is a very nice example of evil..

Now can you tell me; How where you able to discern it was evil?

you are making your self and atheism look evil and heartless,hitler killed 6million Jews to you it wasn't an evil but a concept,seriously? Is this what atheism teaches you? I nod my head for you.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Evil Disproves Atheism by malvisguy212(op): 10:20am On May 05, 2015

johnydon22:
Please just give us one example of evil...?

is evil an action or an entity?

The Bible says that the presence of evil is due to the spiritual component of our
nature - something the animals do not
possess. God endowed His spiritual
creatures (humans and angels) with free
will to love God or oppose Him.

I remember one incident I read on the internet ;On April 20, 1999, two high school students, in a carefully planned attack, killed 12 students and one teacher and wounded 23 others before killing themselves at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. The targets of the attack were athletes and Christians. After shooting and throwing bombs on the campus and hallways, they headed for the cafeteria, where they continued their rampage. Then they went into the library, where they continued shooting and throwing bombs at the students, who were attempting to hide under desks and behind the stacks of books. Students were picked out and
threatened, with many pleading for their lives as they were gunned down.
The bible say in revelation12:11
And they overcame him because of the
blood of the Lamb and because of the
word of their testimony, and THEY DID NOT LOVE THEIR LIFE EVEN TO DEATH.
(Revelation 12:11)

Hitler killed 6million Jews , where did this idea come from? Concept? I pity for you my friend.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Evil Disproves Atheism by malvisguy212(op): 10:10am On May 05, 2015

johnydon22:
repent, to be sorry for, to change your mind all means the same thing. . .
I thought your god doesnt change in the first place?

click the link I paste and read.

Curl from the link you fail to read;

God's omniscience does not mean that God changes His character to pretend that everything is fine when human beings sin. For example, in Genesis 6:6, the Lord was sorry because of the rampant sin that mankind had fallen into. So, even though God knew what was going to happen, He was sad that human beings were thinking only about how to sin more and more. We basically have the same reaction to our own children. We grieve when they make bad choices, although if we had it to do over, we would still have brought them into the world.
What about instances where God
"changed His mind?" Shouldn't one
expect that an omniscient God would
never have to change His mind? If we
examine the verses where God "changes
His mind" we find in every instance that
either the people themselves or a
spokesman for the people repents of the sin that was going on. For example, God sent Jonah to the city of Nineveh to warn them that they were going to fall under His judgment. If God had never intended to "change His mind" He would have never sent the reluctant Jonah to the city. In fact, God had to go to extreme lengths to get Jonah to go, and Jonah was ultimately very unhappy when Assyrians repented and God did not destroy them all. So, God really didn't change His mind, but was giving the people a chance to repent of their evil ways in order to avoid judgment. In some instances the people repented and were spared, and in other instances they continued to rebel and were destroyed. So, God's purpose in warning people of impending judgment was get them to change their minds.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Evil Disproves Atheism by malvisguy212(op): 10:02am On May 05, 2015

johnydon22:
He doesnt even see the sarcasm in dalamans post. . . he is taunting you by telling your god made evil as said in the bible..

Am not even sure you know the meaning of a concept.

Evil is a concept and concepts are conceived in the mind. . . Can you give us one example of evil??

smh

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Evil Disproves Atheism by malvisguy212(op): 10:00am On May 05, 2015

dalaman:
If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you. Jeremiah 42:10

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? Amos 3:6

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Some times the OP needs to read his bible.

Amos3:6 and isaiah 45:7 this thread answer the question https://www.nairaland.com/2035915/did-god-create-evil-does

Concerning jerimaih42:10 it was the king James that translated repent,the verses above, and others, come from the Hebrew Old Testament. The word translated "repented" is the Hebrew verb nâcham (Strong's H5162). It
has a number of meanings, including "to be sorry," "console oneself," "repent," "regret," and "be comforted." The actual meaning intended is determined from the context. For example, the King James version translates Genesis 6:6 as "And it repented the LORD that he had made
man on the earth, and it grieved him at
his heart." The New American Standard
translates the verse as "The LORD was
sorry that He had made man on the
earth, and He was grieved in His heart."

The King James English
translation uses archaic English
that didn't have the same
meaning 400 years ago as it
does now. So, the archaic
translations indicating that God
"repented" really indicated that
God was sorry or "changed His mind."
Since God never sins, He has no need of
repentance. Some skeptics have pointed
out that an omniscient God should never
change His mind, since He always should
know what was going to happen. In
reality, God never changes His mind, but
warns rebellious people to give them the
opportunity to change their minds before
He judges them.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/does_god_repent.html

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Evil Disproves Atheism by malvisguy212(op): 9:43am On May 05, 2015

johnydon22:
Evil and good are both human concepts and have nothing to do with a deity..

this is like saying, hot cant exist without cold, and cold cant exist without hot... it is a very wrong and laughable analogy.

these are both human concepts that are dependant on each other for meaning because they negate each other.

hot cannot exist without cold and same way cold cannot exist without hot

concept of evil cannot exist without good, same way concept of good cannot exist without evil

atheists cannot even get of the ground,you said evil has noting to do with God, dalaman provide evidence saying God is the author of evil.who are we to believe? Does evil exist? Evil is immaterial, did science proved that evil is a concept by man?

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Why Evil Disproves Atheism by malvisguy212(op): 7:13am On May 05, 2015

As Islamists continue to kill innocents,
they provide more fuel for the oft-made
atheist claim that religion is evil. The deadly attack on France by the islamists
Atheist,Richard Dawkins condemned it by tweeting "No, all religions are NOT equally violent. Some have never been violent, some gave it up centuries ago. One religion conspicuously didn't."

Dawkins is right that some religions and
religious people have consistently
perpetrated evil. Atheists often use this
fact to support atheism. However, the
existence of evil turns out to be a bigger
problem for atheists to explain than for
theists. The kind of evil Dawkins and the
rest of the civilized world abhor doesn't
disprove God it disproves atheism.

While it's commonly thought that only
theists have to explain the existence of
evil, the truth is every worldview does.
Eastern pantheistic religions try to get
around the problem by denying that evil even exists. Evil is an illusion, they say (and according to them, so are you!).
Theists say evil is real and try to explain
how evil and God can coexist. Atheists
tend to be caught in the middle. In one
breath they are claiming there is no
good, evil or justice because only material things exist—we are just
material molecular machines "dancing to the music" of our DNA (as Dawkins
himself put it). In the next breath they
are outraged at the great injustices and
evil done by religious people in the
name of God.

Well, atheists can't have it both ways.
Either evil exists or it doesn't. If it doesn't exist, then atheists should stop
complaining about the "evil" things
religious people have done because they haven't really done any. They've just been "dancing to the music" of their
DNA. If atheism is true, all behaviors are merely a matter of preference anyway.

On the other hand, if evil actually does
exist, then atheists have an even bigger
problem. The existence of evil actually
establishes the existence of God.

To explain why, we need to go back to
Augustine who puzzled over the following argument:

1. God created all things.
2. Evil is a thing.
3. Therefore, God created evil.

How could a good God create evil? If
those first two premises are true, He did, and this is a God problem. So God must not be good after all. But then Augustine realized that the second premise is not true. While evil is real, it's not a "thing." Evil doesn't exist on its own. It only exists as a lack or a deficiency in a good thing.

Evil is like rust in a car: If you take all of
the rust out of a car, you have a better
car; if you take the car out of the rust,
you have nothing. g. In other words, evil only makes sense against the backdrop of good. That's why we often describe evil as negations of good things. We say someone is immoral, unjust,
unfair, dishonest, etc.

We could put it this way: The shadows
prove the sunshine. There can be
sunshine without shadows, but there
can't be shadows without sunshine. In
other words, there can be good without
evil, but there can't be evil without good.

So evil can't exist unless good exists. But
good can't exist unless God exists. In
other words, there can be no objective
evil unless there is objective good, and
there can be no objective good unless
God exists. If evil is real as the recent
headlines from France plainly reveal
then God exists. The best evil can do is
show there's a devil out there, but it can't disprove God. The very existence of evil boomerangs back to show that God exists.

1 Like 1 Share

Islam › Re: Muhammad's Ally With Pagans And Jinn-devil (Birds Of The Same Feathers). by malvisguy212: 10:38pm On May 04, 2015

truthman2012:
Terrorist!

Archaeolgy uncovered Moon god
http://www.investigateislam.com/moonGod.htm
Educated Muslims understand these facts only too well - better, in fact, than most Christians. Robert Morey recalls a conversation he once had:
"During one trip to Washington DC I got involved in a conversation with a Muslim tax driver from Iran. When I asked him, 'Where did Islam obtain its symbol of the crescent moon?' he responded that it was an ancient PAGAN symbol used throughout the Middle East and that adopting this symbol had helped Muslims to convert people throughout the Middle East. When I pointed out that the word Allah itself was used by the moon-god cult in pre-Islamic Arabia, he agreed that this was the case. I then pointed out that the religion and the Quran of Muhammad could be explained in terms of pre-Islamic culture, customs, and religious ideas. He agreed with this! He went on to explain that he was a university-educated Muslim who, at this point in his life, was attempting to understand Islam from a scholarly viewpoint. As a result, he had lost his faith in Islam. The significance of the pre- Islamic source of the name Allah cannot be overestimated" (op.cit., pp.52-53).

3 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: Where Is Heaven And Hell? by malvisguy212: 7:35pm On May 04, 2015

johnydon22:
this one said

and then this one said

alright both of you should please tell us which is correct and which to take

Eyes are of no use when the mind is blind.

"The road to hell is paved with good
intentions.” He thought for a moment,
then added: “And lit with electric lights"

Christianity Etc › Re: Where Is Heaven And Hell? by malvisguy212: 6:39pm On May 04, 2015

theAtheist101:
Sincerely where are these places? My religious friends all have different opinions about their location(s).

Heaven exists outside the dimensions of both space and time. Asking where heaven exists is a little like asking where the center of the universe is. In fact, the universe doesn't have a center, since everything is moving away from every other thing. The Bible indicates that heaven does not exist in this universe, but is God's abode. In fact, the Bible indicates that even the highest heavens (of this universe) cannot contain God. Since we human beings are restricted to the space time dimensions of this universe, we can never go in a spaceship and find heaven, since it is not any place to which we can travel. However, there is a way to get there.
Isaiah say;
Isaiah 65:17
"See, I will create new heavens and a
new earth. The former things will not be
remembered, nor will they come to
mind.
And John the beloved confirmed it;

Revelation 21:1
Then I saw "a new heaven and a new
earth," for the first heaven and the first
earth had passed away, and there was
no longer any sea.

Islam › Re: True Story About Abraham's Journey To Mecca by malvisguy212: 4:12pm On May 04, 2015

true2god:
www.religionfacts.com/hinduism/history
Check out the link. I am not encouraging you to go into indepth study of hinduism as a religion. I only try point out the fact that hinduism is a paganistic religion and most of Islamic practices were 'borrowed' from hindu while islam borrow 'prophets' from Judaism and christianity.

I don't know how to upload video, enter this link and see for your self
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wnylk8MU-U

Christianity Etc › Re: Love Thy “gay” Neighbor by malvisguy212(op): 11:05am On May 04, 2015

stockmetrics:
Well, I do not think my statement has a link to any religion. It just stands to reason as said.

The only issue I have with your statement (which I quoted) is that it seems to spare no time to detect the hypocrite and I tried to give a caveat to it.

Cheers.

ok, yes, I understand you very much, I must confessed, my statement is some how wrong,thank you for the correction.

Islam › Re: True Story About Abraham's Journey To Mecca by malvisguy212: 9:12am On May 04, 2015

Islam is a system of works, and a pretty
short list at that. There are the five pillars which include,
1. Declare the faith,
2. Pray,
3. Give alms,
4. Fast on Rammadan,
5. The Hajj or pilgrimage to Mecca

once in the life. These are performed as rituals with no personal feeling for Allah, and they have no bearing on the life of the Muslim, that is, he can live just as he pleases, but if he does the five pillars, he is in no trouble with Allah.this is pure satanic plan to reject the work of God and depend on the effort of men, in there heart, they think they are worshipping God.There is no personal or emotional feeling for God or Islam. God is far away, and his regulations are cold and sterile. This is the point Jesus keep on passing but the teachers of the law are missing it.

Luke 18:9-14
9 To some who were confident of their
own righteousness and looked down on
everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10
“Two men went up to the temple to pray,
one a Pharisee and the other a tax
collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by
himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you
that I am not like other people—robbers,
evildoers, adulterers—or even like this
tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and
give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a
distance. He would not even look up to
heaven, but beat his breast and said,
‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than
the other, went home justified before
God. For all those who exalt themselves
will be humbled, and those who humble
themselves will be exalted.

If you observ the prayer of the Pharisee and comperd it with the pillar of Islam they are both familiar, they never provide a way to fill guilty of sin and ask for forgiveness.

Christianity Etc › Re: Love Thy “gay” Neighbor by malvisguy212(op): 8:42am On May 04, 2015

stockmetrics:
Calling another sinner while admitting one's flaws doesn't make one a hypocrite.

are you a christian?is there anything wrong with my post you qoute?

Islam › Re: True Story About Abraham's Journey To Mecca by malvisguy212: 7:59am On May 04, 2015

true2god:
Thanks bro, I will 'bookmark' this for future reference.

you're welcome my brother, I enjoy your post.

Christianity Etc › Re: Love Thy “gay” Neighbor by malvisguy212(op): 7:07am On May 04, 2015

malvisguy212:
My point is, we have taken such a stand
against homosexuality that I think its
beyond repair. We have singled this sin
out almost as an exception and a whole
Of Gay community practically hates us.

As a christian do you think Gay love you?Do most people realize how seriously our attitude hurts the message of the gospel? Loving Gay doesent mean you are Gay, But more so, are there exceptions to what Christ said? Love your neighbour as yourself. If we are to love them, does it mean we need to see what kind of sins they do first? Can Christ save a liar but not a homosexual?

I am not disrespecting anyone's views or
efforts, I am not even trying to blame all
Christians, just saying we as Christians
may need to tone it down a little bit. We
have gained nothing.
I guess bottom line is, whatever you hold to, at least show love, respect and
understanding, not pointed fingers.
Eyes are of no use when the mind is
blind.
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” He thought for a moment, then added: “ I think am done here , I am very disappointed at the moderators in this section, I was hoping this message reach the home page so that christians all over the world will learn. Anyway, God know better.

Islam › Re: True Story About Abraham's Journey To Mecca by malvisguy212: 7:02am On May 04, 2015

Empiree:
Correct

Correct

Rubbish!

The black stone in Islam is NOT sacred!

"Demolishing the Kaaba completely is much easier upon Allah Almighty than shedding the blood of a single Believing Muslim."

The black stone was a meteorite that was sent down by Allah Almighty to Prophet Abraham and his son Ishmael, peace be upon both of them, to give the precise location of where the Kaaba was to be built by them. We believe that Prophets Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaaba. The black stone is placed in one of the corners of the Kaaba, and it serves as a starting and ending point for the Circumambulation (tawaaf) 7 times around the Kaaba, which is also 100% supported in the Bible's previous Scriptures. All of Islam's Rituals are 100% supported by the previous Scriptures.

What is the difference then between the hindu idols and the Kaba?

The comparison is an unfair one because while the Muslims bow down to GOD Almighty and only to GOD Almighty in Worship, the hindus pray to and glorify their idols. They address them as "your divinity" and "your holiness". That's clearly idol worship! You must never confuse the House of GOD Almighty, where GOD and His Servants meet, with the man-made idols and statues. Allah Almighty Said:

"For ye do worship idols besides God, and ye invent falsehood. The things that ye worship besides God have no power to give you sustenance: then seek ye sustenance from God, serve Him, and be grateful to Him: to Him will be your return. (The Noble Quran, 29:17)"

"And he said: "For you, ye have taken (for worship) idols besides God, out of mutual love and regard between yourselves in this life; but on the Day of Judgment ye shall disown each other and curse each other: and your abode will be the Fire, and ye shall have none to help." (The Noble Quran, 29:25)"

"And they set up (idols) as equal to God, to mislead (men) from the Path! Say: "Enjoy (your brief power)! But verily ye are making straightway for Hell!" (The Noble Quran, 14:30)"

"Remember Abraham said: "O my Lord! make this city one of peace and security: and preserve me and my sons from worshipping idols. (The Noble Quran, 14:35)"

The Muslims on the hand are not idol worshipers. And neither were the Bible's Prophets (including Jesus), peace be upon them, who prostrated to GOD Almighty.

The black stone is like the bricks and cement that make up the Kaaba. It is not holy at all and is not worshiped in any shape or form. The black stone is nothing but a Heavenly object (an asteroid) that GOD Almighty descended on earth to determine the exact location of where His House was going to be built by Abraham and his son Ishmael, peace be upon them.
"

Islam’s single most important reason for kissing the Black Stone is that, “Muhammad did it.”

Ibn `Umar said: “Allah’s Messenger
(peace and blessings be upon him)
faced the Black Stone, touched it,
and then placed his lips on it and
wept for a long time.” Likewise,
`Umar also wept for a long time.
The Prophet (peace and blessings be
upon him) said: ‘ O `Umar, this is the
place where one should shed
tears.”’ (Reported by Al-Hakim who
considers it a sound Hadith with a
sound chain of authorities)

Muhammad touched and kissed the
Black stone. He “placed his lips on it
and wept for a long time.” If this is not
idolatry, then what is it? In view of his
pagan past, Muhammad needed
something tangible that connects him to
Allah. Thus, he submitted to idolatry.
That is why he also stated that the Black
Stone “IS THE PLACE WHERE ONE SHOULD SHAD TEARS.” And Umar gave in to blind allegiance. What Muslims failed to take into consideration is that kissing and caressing stone objects were an integral part of the worship that the Arab pagans rendered to their idols.

Surah 2:125: “And when WE MADE THE HOUSE (at Mecca) a resort for
mankind and sanctuary, (saying):
Take as your place of worship the
place where Abraham stood (to pray).
And We imposed a duty upon
Abraham and Ishmael, (saying):
Purify My house for those who go
around and those who meditate
therein and those who bow down and
prostrate themselves (in worship)
.” (Pickthall)

According to Islam, Allah is said to have
built the Ka’ba centuries before the time
of Judaism and Christianity. It was
supposedly restructured later by
Abraham and Ishmael. The Ka’ba also
known as “Baitullah” means “House of
Allah.” Now, how did the “House of
Allah” which was “made by Allah”
become a pagan temple housing 360
pagan idols? How can a House of God
become a pagan Temple of Idols? Why
did Allah allow this to occur to his place
of worship? If the Ka’ba was the original
“House of Allah” as the Qur’an asserts,
then there is absolutely no logical or
theological reason as to why Muhammad directed the first Qiblah towards Jerusalem – unless he believed that it was holier than the Ka’ba.
Muhammad destroyed the rest of the
idols at the conquest of Mecca but left
the preeminent idol of the Ka’ba – the
Black Stone – untouched. Why? It was
simply due to deep-rooted
subconsciousness brought on by years of submission to stone worship. He not only had to leave the Black Stone unharmed to represent Islam but he also kissed it to show his affection for the pagan stone.

The Black Stone that was sacred to the
pagans became sacred to the Muslims
and is now revered by them. The kiss
that the pious Muslim pilgrims bestow on the Black Stone is a survival of the old pagan practice, which was a form of
stone worship in Arabia. While Christians can clearly see this as absolute idolatry, Islam is blind to this abomination.

Even the Egyptian writer, Muhammad
Husayn Haykal, who relies heavily on
the works of Ibn Hisham, admitted in his book, The Life of Muhammad (p. 30):

" In fact, the Arabs venerated these
stones so much that not only did
they worship the black stone in the
Ka’bah, but also they would take
one of the stones of the Ka’bah as a
holy object in their travels, praying
to it and asking it to bless every
move they made."

Islam › Re: True Story About Abraham's Journey To Mecca by malvisguy212: 10:04pm On May 03, 2015

Empiree:
Obviously, if you remove the mole from your eyes, you should know you have been answered.

The lengthy hadith is crystal clear

Now, you seem to claim love for Ismail here. But looking at judeo/christian records of hate toward Ismail (AS), it shows that many of you dont even consider him a legitimate child of Ibrahim and a messanger of God. You fellas are quiet inconsistent. Where they died is simply irrelevant. What's relevant is their mission on earth. Ayinde Barrister built is career in Nigeria but died in EU. Mrs Abiola built her career in Nigeria but died in US. So what's your point.

Irrelevant

ishmael a prophet? You have a lot to learn my dear, ishmael was born out of lust but Isaac was born of the spirit.

All the verses you provide say" house of God" but what you failed to understand is that it was not talking about a SINGLE house of God, but different, Jacob slept and when he woke up he called the place a house of God, note ;Jacob slept in the wilderness.

Judges 20:18
18 The Israelites went up to Bethel (the
House of GOD in Hebrew) and inquired
of God. They said, "Who of us shall go
first to fight against the Benjamites?" The
LORD replied, "Judah shall go first."

So you think the house of God is the judges was talking about is the same place were Jacobs slept? And also the rest book you quoted? You are dead wrong. You still miss the question, where in the bible the prophet

truthman2012:
What is the relevance of all those to the simple question asked?
The question you have been avoiding is " Why didn't Moses, Joshua, Isaac, Jacob, Jesus and other prophets visit Kaaba, if it is the resort and sanctuary for ALL MANKIND? No biblical or historical evidence that those prophets visited there. Would they not have talked about it and visited Kaaba, a house of God, if it was built by their father, Abraham?. If you don't have islamic records to show that they visited Kaaba, the quran claim that Abraham built Kaaba as a house of God for all mankind is false.
The truth is neither Abraham nor Ishmael built Kaaba. Abraham lived and died in Israel and same for Ishmael.
Abraham
The Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, full of years, and was gathered to his people.
And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machh-pelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre.
The field which Abraham purchased of the sons of Heth: there was Abraham buried and Sarah his wife (Genesis 25:8-19).
Ishmael
And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years and gave up the ghost and died and was gathered to his people.
And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt as thou goest towards Assyria: and he died in the presence of his people (Genesis 25:18-18).
Allah did deliberately not give you the life and death of them to deceive you.
All the Bible quotes above are talking about events that took place is Israel. The your need for them?
That Abraham and Ishmael built Kaaba is a lie of the Devil.

Empiree:
Obviously, if you remove the mole from your eyes, you should know you have been answered.

The lengthy hadith is crystal clear

Now, you seem to claim love for Ismail here. But looking at judeo/christian records of hate toward Ismail (AS), it shows that many of you dont even consider him a legitimate child of Ibrahim and a messanger of God. You fellas are quiet inconsistent. Where they died is simply irrelevant. What's relevant is their mission on earth. Ayinde Barrister built is career in Nigeria but died in EU. Mrs Abiola built her career in Nigeria but died in US. So what's your point.

Irrelevant

Christianity Etc › Re: Love Thy “gay” Neighbor by malvisguy212(op): 8:37pm On May 03, 2015

johnydon22:
No boss, actually it was just a correction... as you can see i bolded the part you said the universe was 4.7billion years

ok. For argument sake.

Christianity Etc › Re: Love Thy “gay” Neighbor by malvisguy212(op): 8:36pm On May 03, 2015

My point is, we have taken such a stand
against homosexuality that I think its
beyond repair. We have singled this sin
out almost as an exception and a whole
Of Gay community practically hates us.

As a christian do you think Gay love you?Do most people realize how seriously our attitude hurts the message of the gospel? Loving Gay doesent mean you are Gay, But more so, are there exceptions to what Christ said? Love your neighbour as yourself. If we are to love them, does it mean we need to see what kind of sins they do first? Can Christ save a liar but not a homosexual?

I am not disrespecting anyone's views or
efforts, I am not even trying to blame all
Christians, just saying we as Christians
may need to tone it down a little bit. We
have gained nothing.
I guess bottom line is, whatever you hold to, at least show love, respect and
understanding, not pointed fingers.
Eyes are of no use when the mind is
blind.
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” He thought for a moment, then added: “ I think am done here , I am very disappointed at the moderators in this section, I was hoping this message reach the home page so that christians all over the world will learn. Anyway, God know better.

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