₦airaland Forum

Rilwayne001:
Don't quote the book of hebrew for me

You know i got nothing ti do with paul...

paul is righteous than your Muhammad.

Rilwayne001:
SMH


Its shame that you are ignorant , in your eagerness to discredit that verse you forgot that the verse states three (3) conditions to attain salvation in Islam, so all you could see is work righteousness? forgeting that it was arranged in sequence.

If you don't repent how will you believe, if you don't believe how will you work righteousness?. The Quran is enough and simple to understand



So you had to search google and the copy/paste what you don't even understand??

Again answer these questions:

Can we call a righteous man in the eyes of God a sinner/imperfect?

How about a blameless man in the eyes of God? is he also imperfect/sinner?

the verse you quote is satanic, there is a satanic manipulation, you can not atain salvation by Good work. Only God can defined righteousness for me, i cant do it my self, open your eyes the quran is a trap satan set for mankind to enter hell.

Rilwayne001:
So Yahweh was lying when he said Noah is a righteous man before him.

Genesis 7:1 "I have seen that [size=15pt] you are righteous before Me [/size] in this generation",

Now answer the question.

Can we call a righteous man in the eyes of God a sinner/imperfect?

How about a blameless man in the eyes of God? is he also imperfect/sinner?

◄ Hebrews 11:7 ►
By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear
built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world
and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

Dint you read my comment? You cannot define righteousness for God,no body is righteous in the eyes of God,the man must believe in the righteousness of jesus to be called righteous.

Rilwayne001:
This was my question, please answer it.

Can we call a righteous man in the eyes of God a sinner/imperfect?

How about a blameless man in the eyes of God? is he also imperfect/sinner?

no body, no not one is RIGHTEOUS in the eye of God. How can you earn the righteousness of God? Can your good work earn the holiness of God?if good work can qualify you to earn the righteousness of God, then no need for religion, bible say even the tax collector do more than good, can we called them righteous?

Dapo777:
If God has the power to stop evil But refuses to stop evil that means God supports evil.

how can you express your love to someone without trial? Freewill without two option, is'nt is partial Freewill? Evil must exist for man to chose to hate or love God,the world you ask for is not here,it heaven.

Rilwayne001:
VERY SIMPLE

Surah Al-Qasas, Verse 67:
But any that (in this life) had repented, believed, and worked righteousness, will have hopes to be among those who achieve salvation.


* Repent

* Believe

* Do righteous good works

Shikena u don attain salvation be that ....No need for someone dying for your alleged sin, a sin you know nothing about.

it a shame you dont understand the righteousness of God, the verse you quote say WORK RIGHTEOUSNESS .

The idea that God's love and salvation can be earned through good
deeds is a common belief in islam, A verse from the
Psalms specifically ties salvation to belief:
" Because they did not believe in God, And did not trust in His
salvation. (Psalm 78:22)"
Another verse indicates quite clearly that humans are unable to
intercede on their own behalf because of our lack of righteousness:
"And He saw that there was no man, And was astonished that there
was no one to intercede; Then His own arm brought salvation to
Him; And His righteousness upheld Him. (Isaiah 59:16) "

So how do you become righteous enough to be acceptable in the eyes of God?The law of God is good and does not represent just suggestions for
righteous living. However, no person (other than Jesus Christ) has ever kept the entire law. Because of these failures on our part, God has
provided a means by which we can be declared faultless under the
law. Jesus paid the penalty for sin such that His righteousness is
imputed to us through faith in Him. It's a great deal. He takes our sin
and gives us His righteousness through faith.

Rilwayne001:
Do you know the meaning of righteous at all?.

Please check your dictionary and come back to answer my question. But if you don't have a dico, tell me in other to provide you with its meaning.

do muslims know what it take to be righteous? You only believe in good deed. What do you understand of the righteousness of God?

frustratedman:
I am seriouly considering suicide once again. I think I will have to take this bold step once and for all instead of facing all these problems and challenges. God has been wicked and so harsh to me. I have waited for over 2 months for his intervention but things keeps getting worse. I will kill myself and end this life of misery. I already made arrangements this morning and it won't take long before my story hit the news. I have lost hope and all I had. I give up on life, and God. I will die with my frustrations

it is well with you my friend, frustration is a very bad spirit, you want things to work fast for you, two month may be long for you,but what about God? Is two month too far for God? Bible say the trial of our faith make us strong 'a refining by fire'Good things happen likewise bad things, God alow bad thing to happen,bible make it clear that the believers will pass through obstacle , but he who endureth to the end will be saved.

EVERTHING GONA BE ALRIGHT.

PastorAIO:
Let's leave the Pastor part out of it. Otherwise it would be like appealing to authority to back what I'm saying with the name Pastor.

I know God kept Moses safe from birth, it is recorded in the bible, just like the way God has kept me safe from birth and kept you safe from birth and will continue to do so by his grace. However the question I asked was 'Was Moses without Sin?'.

I believe you are confusing different aspects of Judicial process here. There is judgment which is an evaluation of a situation. Then there is Judgment which is executed after the evaluation.

In modern parlance you would call both Trial and Sentencing.

You are saying that Christians will not stand Trial at all. When I read John 5:24 understand 'Krisin' to mean Sentencing. Christians will not be sentenced.
In fact I think that the KJV captures it best:


24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


They will undergo Trial and after trial they will not be Condemned. They will not be Sentenced.

moses was a sinner because he was born of the flash,however, the plan of salvation for the israelite start long before moses was even born,God cannot be taking by surprise,the egyptian cannot just held the israelite to bondage, God know all this will happen,that is why there is little similarity between jesus and moses,THEY BOTH WERE PROMISE TO THE JEWS.although jesus was the spirit of God. Moses mum was a woman of faith,bible say by "faith she keept moses for 3 month" so it is clear moses was a holy boy from birth,'a refining by fire'.


What do you mean by trial? That the righteous will still pass through trial? You are wrong, satan has already been judge and all those who obey him will give an account of there deed,the righteous will not stand in front of the throne of God for judgment. Skeptics love the KJV so much, one would think that they were still
back in medieval England. Use of this translation is problematic these
days, since it uses an archaic version of modern English, which doesn't necessarily mean the same things today as when it was translated over 400 years ago. In addition, the KJV was produced using a limited number of medieval manuscripts that did not represent the earliest Alexandrian set of manuscripts.

People misinterpret salvation."salvation," nearly always refers to a work of God. In fact, in 104 out of 106 instances "salvation" refers specifically to a work of God that has nothing to do with any human effort. A verse from the Psalms specifically ties salvation to belief: "Because they did not believe in God, And did not trust in His
salvation. (Psalm 78:22)" Another verse indicates quite clearly that humans are unable to
intercede on their own behalf because of our lack of righteousness: "And He saw that there was no man, And was astonished that there
was no one to intercede; Then His own arm brought salvation to
Him; And His righteousness upheld Him. (Isaiah 59:16)"

Weah96:
His brain is break dancing. Or he's pretending to be an I)diot to avoid conceding that he got it wrong.

Sinners do not enter heaven, and yet good deeds don't lead to salvation. Which kan nonsense be dat one?

thank you for the insult.

PastorAIO:
So in short, you are saying that Moses was without sin.




Whether it involves Christians or not the bottom-line is that they are judged according to their deeds.

That it is not about christians is your own invention.

from birth,moses was keept safe by God himself,infact ,it was God himself that buried moses.

Are you a pastor? Am surprise you dont understand the teaching of christ.
John 5:24."Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who
sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over
from death to life.

THE BELIEVERS WILL NOT STAND IN FRONT OF GOD FOR JUDGMENT.

Weah96:
Listen and listen very carefully. The man repented on the CROSS. He died on the CROSS. No sin was committed BETWEEN repentance and death. This means that he died almost a perfect person, save for the occasional desire to stab one of those security guards in the eye.

Why are you pretending here that your God remembers activities committed prior to the repentance of the individual?

That's the whole point of repentance. God forgets the previous activities if the party agrees to desist from further immoral behavior.

The man on the cross didn't engage in any immoral activity between his repentance and untimely death.

What are you saying?

thank you for your time. You are still repeating the same thing.

dp

PastorAIO:
Okay, I'll make a study of the Holiness of God soon. But let's stick with this matter of salvation by human effort for now.

Why is 'Good deed not enough to fill with the holiness of God'? I don't understand what you mean even at the level of basic grammar. What do you mean by 'filling with the holiness of God'? I thought we were talking about salvation by which I presume you mean 'forgiveness of sins'.



..But christianity teaches the exact same thing.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (Rev 20:11–12)




I wasn't talking about fulfilling promises or needing to sacrifice anymore. I was giving you an example of a religion in which 'forgiveness of sins', which I believe is what you mean by salvation, is achieved without the sinner even knowing about the sacrifice. This refutes your claim that All religions require salvation by human effort. That was my simple point. Have you got anything to say about that, or are you prepared to withdraw the false claim?
Gospel should not be spread with lies!!

the ark of the covenant illustrate the holiness of God.The Ark of the Covenant was an embodiment of God's presence with
the Israelites. The atonement cover (or "mercy seat" that covered the
ark was God's throne (2 Sam 6:2) and God's presence was above it (Lev 16:2); it was also the place where God met Moses and gave him commands (Ex 25:22). If someone approached the ark, they would effectively be in God's presence - a sinner standing before a holy God
who does not tolerate evil (Ps 5:4-6) - and would die as a result of their sins.this is the holiness of God.


Revelation 20:11-12.is not talking about the believers,This is a judgment against non-Christians only. This occurs immediately before God ushers believers into the eternal state.BELIEVERS WILL NOT STAND IN FRONT OF THE THRONE OF GOD FOR JUDGMENT. Everyone who rejected Jesus Christ will give an account for his or her rebellion against God’s will.

Weah96:
The criminal DIED after repenting. He didn't have the TIME on earth to SIN AGAIN. So this analogy
SUPPORTS the point I'm making.

After he repented, he was a GOOD person until his death.

Good deeds save. Not grace. It's blatantly obvious.

the criminal ask jesus for forgiveness and jesus say"today you will be in paradise"the criminal know there is God, but he ask jesus to take him to heaven,according to you(weah96) if you claim that his good deed saved him, you are wrong Because his bad deed will certainly be outweighting his good deed. He pray) for forgiveness for the first time, which mean he has been doing bad deed long before his dead, although bible never mention the bad deed, but common sense willl make you understand.

Weah96:
You cannot eat your cake and also have it. According to you, good deeds don't matter, only the grace of God saves.

If your statement were true, then there should be more than a few SINNERS in heaven. The fact that there are no sinners in heaven means that GOOD DEEDS are taken into consideration FIRST.

Think about it.

this will by my last comment on this.

What do you understand by 'genuine'? That true repentance, right? Ok, the criminal that was hung together with jesus on the cross, according to salvation by human effort, the criminal does not deserve second chance, Because his bad deed will outweigh his good deed. But the criminal beg for mercy, ask for forgiveness, and he was forgiving. This is salvation in christ jesus.

Thank you for your time.

PastorAIO:
Hello Malvisguy, You still haven't articulated for us what Religion is supposed to do exactly. You seem to suggest it vaguely when you say .... All religion teaches that salvation can be attained by human effort ....

The question of 'what is Salvation' is pertinent here, but let us leave it for now. It'll be like an elephant in the room.

I wonder how extensive your study of all religions are, before you can make the sweeping statement that
All religion teaches that salvation can be attained by human effort.

In ATR if you offend a deity you can get remission by offering certain sacrifices. These religions have moral codes but in them we find a lot of the time that remission for offences can be settled by making certain sacrifices.

In Judaism, from which xtianity is derived and which predates xtianity, remission from sins is settled by certain sin offerings. Prior to Judaism, in the bible, we are told the story of Job who would make sacrifices on behalf of his children to settle their sins. His children were not even aware. That is another case of religion where sins are forgiven without the sinner actually doing anything.

I'm presuming that by 'salvation' you mean forgiveness of sins. If you mean something else please let us know.

In Islam Allah is supposed to be able to forgive just like that without requiring the effort of killing Jesus. The only human effort required is contrition.

please can you tell me how Christianity requires even less effort than these?

i will advice you to understand the holiness of God.
Good deed is not enough for you to fill with the holiness of God.

Here is a passage from quran.
Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 101 Surah Al-Qariah verses 6-11:
6 Then he whose balance (of good deeds) will be (found) heavy 7 Will
be in a life of good pleasure and satisfaction. 8 But he whose balance
(of good deeds) will be (found) light 9 Will have his home in a
(bottomless) pit. 10 And what will explain to thee what this is? 11 (It
is) a Fire, blazing fiercely!.

If a man killed your loves one and was arrested , on the day of the trial
he pleaded gulty but went on and say he deserve to be free'd because
he has being doin good deed , and the judge free him,WILL YOU
CALLED THE JUDGE A GOOD JUDGE? The bible make it clear that God is a good judge.

In the case of job, the promise has not yet been fulfilled hence the sacrifice to attained holiness.jesus has already pay the price to those who believe in him, man need not to sacrifice any more, are you a pastor? You shuld'nt be talking about sacrifice, Because christ has already pay the price for us. I gave you a verse from the bible, ephesian 2:8. Did you read it? Romans 6:23 say it is the FREE GIFTS OF GOD.
Judaism are still expecting the christ, meaning they do not believe in the finishing work of Christ.

Surah 73:1-2: “O you wrapped in garments (i.e. Prophet Muhammad)! STAND (to pray) all night, except a little.” (Hilali- Khan)

yazach:
I came across this verse of the bible explaining how Jesus prayed and found out that it is totally different from the way so called Christ followers(Christians) do pray to God. Now let us examine the verse and use the following picture to explain it

Matthew 26:38: And Jesus fell on His face and prayed
The question is: If you look at these, which one is more accurate

jesus teach us how to pray "the lord prayer" during the pre-islamic era, the pagan bow there head and pray, are we to called the pagan muslims?
When allah reveal the satanic verse, muhammad prostrate with the pagan.

CAPTIVATOR:
why all dis story , one word answer ...... From ur statements, its clear that Mary is the mother of Jesus NOT God ! Trinity hoax

if u dont understand ask : John 13 :2 reads " and the DEVIL HAD ALREADY put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon to betray him" !! The whole thing was carried out by Devil , Judas Is Just an agent , thats why Jesus calls that moment the " authority of darkness" Luke 23:53

what happen to your body when you die? It decompose, what matter is the soul, the breath God breath on you, but the difference with jesus is this: jesus was not created, he was God, the spirit of God was jesus walking in flash


jesus was in the flash, this is not the first time satan try this,at the Beginning) of jesus ministry satan try to tempt jesus, why dint he succeed ? Because jesus time was not yet, but when the time , he even advice Judas to do it quickly.

thank you for your time, busy now.

God exist in timeless eternity.

johnydon22:
lol did you pay any attention to ur physics class... lwkmd...SMH...

When Stephen Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose extended the equations for general relativity to include space and time, the results showed that time has a beginning - at the moment of creation (i.e., the Big Bang).3 In fact, if you examine university websites, you will find that many professors make such a claim - that the universe had a
beginning and that this beginning marked the beginning of time. Such assertions support the Bible's claim that time began at the creation of the universe.

CAPTIVATOR:
no twist and turn ......... TRINITY is an HOAX !!!

Question 1 : Mary Gave Birth To Jesus Or God ?? Its high time u tell me u are part of d Catholic Pope empire

Question 2 : John 13:3, 27 States Clearly That Satan Was D person responsible for Jesus Death, Did Satan Kill Jesus OR God ?? Infact, hold on to ur doctrine and be givin victory to Satan !!

when a woman gave birth to a child, what causes it? Is it not the meeting between female and male? Who mate mary? Is it not the power of the Most high God overshadow her? The reason why jesus has to be born of the flash is because God want to reconcile himself to us, man was created in the image of God,but when satan deceive man, man lost the godly nature, so God dwelt in the flash to give man the opportunity to regain the godly nature,if you believe in jesus as your Lord and saviour , you will get this nature.

You say satan kill jesus? May God forgive you your sin

john 13:27-28.
27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.” 28 But no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him.

Jesus know that satan entered Judas, jesus even advice him to do it quickly. Ask forgiveness for this wrong interpretation of the word of God.

johnydon22:
is their such a thing as outside time explain what you mean by outside time and i will explain to you how it is still time

scientific evidence prove that time was creatd together with the univers. (general relativity)

Weah96:
A judge who allows a murderer to walk free is a human, not an omnipotent deity whose will is absolute.

Who are you to question God, if he is what you say he is? You cannot judge the judge.

if the murderer repent genuely, he will be saved, that is the grace jesus brought to us.

johnydon22:
before time... even that period that is so called before time is still a time... so

outside time is a realm were cause and effect isn't real, can you explain how outside time is still a time?