₦airaland Forum

frank317:
Tell him to cover his head in shame, he created a fucccccked up world, yet he claims to be all knowing, all powerful and all loving.
I will strip him off all the title because he deserves none. Don't worry, panel of gods will judge him for this mess he calls perfect earth.

frank317:
You have no shame... I wonder what your Christian brothers would be thinking. You opened up a thread just to feed us with jargons? Seriously, stop embarasing yourself with ur silly responses.

If boko haram kills your little infant brother or child... Would you say boko haram did your child a favour? Since you know death is a favour to whoever is heaven bound why would you make the first move to escape in case of danger. Or are you not sure you are going to heaven?
Death is always painful, even elephants cry when they lost their loved ones. Never have I seen anybody rejoice that his little infant is just died because he is sure that the child is going to heaven. So if your child dies after your wife carries him in the belly for nine months you will set up a party because the child is going to heaven?
Wasn't it your God who used death to punish man because of disobedience? If death is a punishment how is it a favour to an innocent child?

nobilis:
Lol.
Guy, biko I'm tired of your childish arguments.
You can't answer a simple question.
Have a nice day biko
I'm outta here.

lastmessenger:
Great post. The only thing is that I tell myself is no book has given a vivid explanation as to why evil exist therefore i choose to ignore those thought and move on with my life believing in God who knows all.

Unluvable:
of what reason does that matter?
oh sorry I forgot- I have to be one to get some sort of approval and attain eternal bliss

Unluvable:
Is it in any dimension possible that as humans we can stop the whole bickering on our belief and just view the universe.
Using this very consciousness that is bestowed on us.

in my years of being human all I've seen is that whoever or whatever was responsible for this observable universe destroys all that's created. destruction is an important part of creation and critical in recycling.

it goes on and on with no interference. this is what life is all about. you and I find ourselves in the middle of it all, somewhere in history. your questions, your convictions is not going to change anything! it doesn't change that a baby somewhere is born with a defeat or that beautiful mountain is boiling up magma that will erupt leaving a comatose trail or that breathtaking ocean you are in awe of is making up a cyclone.

and this will go on and on till we complete our degenerative cycle putting an end to our consciousness. we'll all go back to how we were before we became aware.

and finally one day, when the earth finally decide to end the cycle. no one will be left to debate on how we got here and why we are here

nobilis:
Guy, honestly, why do you like beating about the bush.
Let me ask you a very simple and straightforward question:
The child that God killed, was he innocent or not?

There are only two possible answers to this question:
1. Yes, the child was innocent.
2. No, the child was not innocent.

So give me an answer.

nobilis:
Why should I read your other post na?
Is it that the child that God killed wasn't innocent?
Or is it that the child doesn't qualify as a person?
Which one?

Because the title of your thread asks if God killed innocent people. And you and I have arrived at the conclusion that God killed innocent children.

Why else should I read your other post?

nobilis:
You do not believe that the universe could have come into existence spontaneously by itself.
But you staunchly believe that your God came into existence spontaneously by himself, right?

malvisguy212:
One of the most common reasons skeptics reject the existence of God is due to the presence of evil in this universe. They reason that a perfect God would not create a universe in which evil exists. Skeptics claim that since God created everything that God must have also created evil. They even cite Bible verses, such as:

'' I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace,
and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
( Isaiah 45:7, KJV)''

'' Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people
not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the
LORD hath not done it? ( Amos 3:6, KJV)''

'' Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not
evil and good? ( Lamentations 3:38)''

However, evil is not really a created thing. You can't
see, touch, feel, smell or hear evil. It is not one of
the fundamental forces of physics, nor does it consist of matter, energy, or the spatial dimensions of the universe. Still, skeptics like to claim that God created evil and cite the Bible to "prove" their point. The Bible is quite clear that God is not the author of evil and insists that He is incapable of. doing so.

Skeptics love the KJV so much, one would think that
they were still back in medieval England. Use of this
translation is problematic these days, since it uses an archaic version of modern English, which doesn't
necessarily mean the same things today as when it
was translated over 400 years ago. In addition, the
KJV was produced using a limited number of
medieval manuscripts that did not represent the
earliest Alexandrian set of manuscripts.

WHAT DO THE MODERN TRANSLATION SAY?

1.Isaiah 45:7.
The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the
LORD who does all these. ( Isaiah 45:7, NASB)
I form the light and create darkness, I bring
prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all
these things. ( Isaiah 45:7, NIV)
Isaiah 45:7 contrasts opposites. Darkness is the
opposite of light. However, evil is not the opposite of peace. The Hebrew word translated "peace" is
shampoo, which has many meanings, mostly related
to the well being of individuals. Râ‛âh, the Hebrew
word translated "evil" in the KJV often refers to
adversity or calamity. There are two forms of the
word. Strong's H7451a most often refers to moral
evil, whereas Strong's H7451b (the form used here)
most often refers to calamity or distress. Obviously,
"calamity" is a better antonym of "peace" than "evil."
2.Amos3:6.
If a trumpet is blown in a city will not the people
tremble? If a calamity occurs in a city has not the
LORD done it? ( Amos 3:6, NASB)
When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people
tremble? When disaster comes to a city, has not the
LORD caused it? ( Amos 3:6, NIV)
Likewise, Amos 3:6 uses the same word, râ‛âh,
referring to calamity or disaster. the context (a
disaster happening to a city) does not refer to moral
evil.
3. Lamentations 3:38
Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both
calamities and good things come? ( Lamentations
3:38, NIV)
Is it not from the mouth of the Most High That both
good and ill go forth? ( Lamentations 3:38, NASB)
The King James Version of Lamentations 3:38 seems
to suggest that God speaks both good and evil.
However, if one reads the verse in context, the
preceding verses indicate that God does not do or
approve of evil. The verse following indicates that
people should not complain in view of their sins.
What the verse really is saying that God decrees
times of good things and times of judgment.
Lamentations was written by Jeremiah during a time
of judgment, when Judah had gone off into exile.
Jeremiah was chosen by God to be the prophet to
tell Judah to reform or be judged. The people did
not believe Jeremiah, and, therefore, fell under
God's judgment. In Lamentations 3:38, the word
translated "good" is ṭôb (Strong's H2896). The word
usually refers to good things as opposed to bad
things. Again, râ‛âh does not refer to moral evil, but
calamities, in this verse. Likewise, the Bible
commentaries indicate that the verse refers to God's
judgment based upon people's sin
Conclusion;
God is not the author of evil. However, God does
reward and punish on the basis of good and bad
behavior. Therefore, God does bring judgment and
calamity (either directly or through human
authorities) on those who rebel. God will ultimately
judge all people, since rebels will not be allowed in
the new, perfect creation.

nobilis:
[color=Red]Lol.
Good.
So you have finally agreed that God can kill and did actually kill innocent people.
Thank you very much.
I have made my point.[/color]

nobles:
Mr Wiseman,
What you're trying to say is that God killed the child, not because of any sin that the child committed? Rather he killed the child because of David's sin.
Meaning that God killed an INNOCENT child because of the sin someone else committed.
I'll ask you other questions based on this.

So now we've proven that God killed an innocent child. Can you now correct the title of your thread or you still need more proofs?

nobilis:
David was punished for committing adultery by the killing of his INNOCENT child by God.

Please what about the child in question here?
Are you trying to say that the child's life has no meaning on earth? Are you trying to say that the whole reason that the child was born was to be as a punishment to David? Are you trying to say that the child's life is useless in itself and was only useful insofar as he was used to punish David?

And by extension, you're saying that abortion is alright which goes against what your fellow christians preach. You guys shout from the mountains about the evils of abortion. But from what you're saying, God killed a child because he was conceived in sin. Therefore, we are all free to abort babies conceived in sin. Isn't that right?

Finally, since your God is omnipotent and omniscient, it means he knew that a child will result from David's adultery. Why didn't he prevent the child from being conceived in the first place? After all, not all intercourse leads to pregnancy? And this would have been a perfect way to prevent anyone having to die. Okay, if perchance, the conception had already taken place before God woke up, he could have caused the pregnancy to miscarry. But he didn't do it. He allowed the baby to be born in perfect health and then he killed him.

frank317:
Of course your god killed for a reason, no doubt. Are you saying that once we have reason to kill, it is right to kill? He killed people because they committed sin. Does that make killing right? He killed Davids innocent infant because he wanted to ensure Jesus was born in Davids lineage. So much for a nice plan.
Boko haram kill because they think you are an infidel and a sinner who baspheme against their God by saying he has a son, you go screaming they are wicked.
If you accept sinners death why can't you be killed by other religion once they see you as a sinner. Imagine, you have the boldness to justify the death of infants because they are going to hevean... Well, don't let you wish be granted unto you.

nobilis:
I've bolded and numbered two parts of your post.
Number 1:
All those you were saying about infant salvation and David being united his son makes no meaning and doesn't answer my question in any way.
My question is WHY did God kill David's first son with Bathsheba for a crime that David committed? WHY? That's the question. Stop all this your rigmarolling and answer the simple question. Why did God kill David's first son with Bathsheba for a crime that David committed?.
Please answer the question in a concise and straightforward manner. Stop beating about the bush.

Secondly you didn't talk about the other questions I raised.

Number 2:
I have told you numerous times that you don't read your bible and you felt I was lying.
The pharaoh that ordered that all of Israel's newborn male children to be killed was the same pharaoh whose daughter found Moses among the reeds of the river where she went to bath. So this pharaoh was Moses' grandfather by adoption. It was also this same pharaoh that sought to kill Moses when Moses killed an Egyptian; which led to Moses fleeing from Egypt to Midian where he got married to Zipporah, Jethro's daughter. [color=Red]This Pharaoh died while Moses was in Midian. So he wasn't the same Pharaoh that Moses met when he went back to Egypt.[/color]
- Exodus chapters 1 and 2. Take particular note of Exodus 2: 23a

Biko, nna, read your bible. I beg you.
You're just empty Christian.
Empty vessels that make the loudest noise.
Mtcheeew.
Please just go your way.
Your shallowness has now been made evident.

frank317:
Daftness in the highest order. Someone opens up a thread on a topic he knows absolutely nothing about.

I keep on saying it, most Christians don't read their bible. They just go to church, listen to their pastor, make assumptions that makes them feel okay, pay their tithe and offering, clap hand and dance and go back home to continue to sin. Yet they are quick to call atheists fools for something they themselves know nothing about.

A simple question and the all knowing op is running round and round.

He knows no shame... And is ready to just justify the killing of babies by his God. What's all this rubbish about kids going to hevean. Why don't you kill your new infant so that he could go to heaven. Are u such a sadist because of religion?
What is really the difference between your thinking and bokoharam's if you think people who disobey your god deserve death?

nobilis:
I've bolded and numbered two parts of your post.
Number 1:
All those you were saying about infant salvation and David being united his son makes no meaning and doesn't answer my question in any way.
My question is WHY did God kill David's first son with Bathsheba for a crime that David committed? WHY? That's the question. Stop all this your rigmarolling and answer the simple question. Why did God kill David's first son with Bathsheba for a crime that David committed?.
Please answer the question in a concise and straightforward manner. Stop beating about the bush.

Secondly you didn't talk about the other questions I raised.

Number 2:
I have told you numerous times that you don't read your bible and you felt I was lying.
The pharaoh that ordered that all of Israel's newborn male children to be killed was the same pharaoh whose daughter found Moses among the reeds of the river where she went to bath. So this pharaoh was Moses' grandfather by adoption. It was also this same pharaoh that sought to kill Moses when Moses killed an Egyptian; which led to Moses fleeing from Egypt to Midian where he got married to Zipporah, Jethro's daughter. [color=Red]This Pharaoh died while Moses was in Midian. So he wasn't the same Pharaoh that Moses met when he went back to Egypt.[/color]
- Exodus chapters 1 and 2. Take particular note of Exodus 2: 23a

Biko, nna, read your bible. I beg you.
You're just empty Christian.
Empty vessels that make the loudest noise.
Mtcheeew.
Please just go your way.
Your shallowness has now been made evident.

PastorKun:
No doubt he is a deity but that doesn't make him the same person as the almighty God.

nobilis:
Indeed.
It is so obvious that you're not well-versed in the bible. The pharoah that ordered the children of the Israelites to be killed wasn't the same pharoah of the Exodus. So by all implications, you're saying that God punishes a son for his ancestor's sins, right?
Which is in direct contravention to what the bible said about him meting out punishment to whoever deserves it.

And you're even bold enough to tell me that the bible didn't say it was children that were killed by God that night. So in your wisdom, you believe that all the first-born of all living things in Egypt were adults? Indeed.

And even after taking pride and solace in the fact that the bible didn't say children were killed by God that night, you had the temerity to boldly write what the bible didn't say. When God killed David's first son with Bath-sheba, where did the bible say that the child went to heaven? Just give me the quotation and I'll read it for myself. Stop telling me things you feel the bible implied. Because if I start telling you things I feel the bible implied in so many places, you'll be horrified.

And finally, u didn't answer my question:
1. WHY did God kill David's first son with Bathsheba for a crime David committed?

2. WHY did God order Saul to kill children and babies for a crime committed by their ancestors?

3. WHY did God allow the devil to destroy all of Job's children?

The question is WHY
Stop diverting.
You want to prove to me that God doesn't kill innocent people.
So tell me why God killed children for a crime they didn't commit.

nobilis:
Indeed.
It is so obvious that you're not well-versed in the bible. The pharoah that ordered the children of the Israelites to be killed wasn't the same pharoah of the Exodus. So by all implications, you're saying that God punishes a son for his ancestor's sins, right?
Which is in direct contravention to what the bible said about him meting out punishment to whoever deserves it.

And you're even bold enough to tell me that the bible didn't say it was children that were killed by God that night. So in your wisdom, you believe that all the first-born of all living things in Egypt were adults? Indeed.

And even after taking pride and solace in the fact that the bible didn't say children were killed by God that night, you had the temerity to boldly write what the bible didn't say. When God killed David's first son with Bath-sheba, where did the bible say that the child went to heaven? Just give me the quotation and I'll read it for myself. Stop telling me things you feel the bible implied. Because if I start telling you things I feel the bible implied in so many places, you'll be horrified.

And finally, u didn't answer my question:
1. WHY did God kill David's first son with Bathsheba for a crime David committed?

2. WHY did God order Saul to kill children and babies for a crime committed by their ancestors?

3. WHY did God allow the devil to destroy all of Job's children?

The question is WHY
Stop diverting.
You want to prove to me that God doesn't kill innocent people.
So tell me why God killed children for a crime they didn't commit.

nobilis:
Lol. You're just as typical as they come.
It's either you guys say that you just believe, or you guys will say God knows best. Or you guys will revert to the argument that the biblical translations are erroneous.

Yet you have not answered my questions. And that is my problem with you. I will ask you a question and instead of answering the question, you'll start talking about something else and you end up not answering the question. Forget all this your long posts and just concisely answer the questions I asked. Simple.

I agree dat according to your original hebrew, the bible said thou shalt not murder without cause or reason. Ok. Fine. No argument on that.

So answer me:
1. Why did God kill all the first-born of all living things in Egypt? What crimes did they commit? His ire was with the Pharoah who he refused to permit to let the Israelites go. So why didn't he just possibly kill Pharoah and all his councillors? Why did he have to kill the first-born of all living things in Egypt?

2. Why did God kill David's first son with Bathsheba because of a sin David committed?

3. Why did God command Saul to kill children and babies in Amalek for a crime they didn't commit?

Just answer me these three questions.
That's all.

nobilis:
Wow. God doesn't tolerate sin. Huh?
It is in his nature. Huh?

1. What kind of God gives his people the commandment not to kill and then turns around and tells them to pick up arms and go and kill children and babies?

2. Why didn't God kill Abraham when he lied that Sarah was his sister instead of his wife?

3. Why didn't God kill David who committed adultery and murder in one single breath?

4. Why didn't God kill David and his men when they entered the Tent of worship and ate the unleavened bread meant for priests and levites.

5. Why didn't God kill Solomon when Solomon obviously started worshipping his wives' idols?

6. Why did God allow Elisha to order a lion to kill the children that were taunting him?

And the list goes on and on.

nobilis:
Kedu ihe onye nke a na-akogheridi?
I ask you something. You start talking something else.
Guy, itz enough.
Don't quote me again.

nobilis:
Wow. God doesn't tolerate sin. Huh?
It is in his nature. Huh?

1. What kind of God gives his people the commandment not to kill and then turns around and tells them to pick up arms and go and kill children and babies?

2. Why didn't God kill Abraham when he lied that Sarah was his sister instead of his wife?

3. Why didn't God kill David who committed adultery and murder in one single breath?

4. Why didn't God kill David and his men when they entered the Tent of worship and ate the unleavened bread meant for priests and levites.

5. Why didn't God kill Solomon when Solomon obviously started worshipping his wives' idols?

6. Why did God allow Elisha to order a lion to kill the children that were taunting him?

And the list goes on and on.

musKeeto:
OAM4J, frontpage pls.

BABAAGBALABA:
wait,wat assurance do u even have dat Jesus is a christain or he even recognise christianity,because apostle Paul said,better wake up and think

BABAAGBALABA:
wait,wat assurance do u even have dat Jesus is a christain or he even recognise christianity,because apostle Paul said,better wake up and think