₦airaland Forum

A long Amennnnnnnnnnnn to that.

God bless you Bro. you have just confirmed my expectation for the Month.

Not too long we will come back at the end of the month to share our various testimonies about the goodness of God.

your question as been answered once too many times.

the answer will not change anything about you, we live by faith and not by sight.

i did not give my life to christ because i was shown a loaction of where he was crucified, no. i gave because i believe he did die.

brother your kind where around in Jesus days inspite of the many miracle they saw they still want more miracle to believe.

chritainity is not common sense, it is a life of faith. you cannot put God in your box. the bible is His truth thats what we believe. shikena.

LagosShia:
you dont have a brain to reason.the Quran is filled with the stories and wonders of past prophets.take for example Moses (as) stories which make close to a third of Quranic narrations:

NA WAH FOR YOU OH, YOU SABI INSULT. BUT ME, I HAVE BRAIN AND A GOOD ONE AT THAT

"We revealed to Moses' mother, "Suckle him and then when you fear for him cast him into the sea. Do not fear or grieve; We will return him to you and make him one of the Messengers." (Surat al-Qasas: 7)

[b]"When We revealed to your mother: "Place him into the chest and throw it into the sea and the sea will wash it up on the shore, where an enemy of Mine and his will pick it up, " (Surah Ta-Ha: 38-39)

The family of Pharaoh picked him up so that he might be an enemy and a source of grief to them. Certainly Pharaoh and Haman and their troops were in the wrong. The wife of Pharaoh said, "A source of delight for me and for you; do not kill him. It may well be that he will be of use to us or perhaps we could adopt him as a son." They were not aware. (Surat al-Qasas: 8-9)

"Go after him." And she kept an eye on him from afar and they were not aware. We first made him refuse all wet-nurses, so she (Moses' sister) said, "Shall I show you to a household who will feed him for you and be good to him?"
That is how We returned him to his mother so that she might delight her eyes and feel no grief and so that she would know that Allah's promise is true. But most of them do not know this. (Surat al-Qasas: 10-13)
[/b]

now,if all that is not enough for you or they are too complex for you to comprehend,then i can authoritatively tell you as a muslim and you can quote me anywhere with pride,that i said Muhammad (sa) said and we believe whatever he said.why?because we are convinced by the mighty messenger Muhammad (sa) is,so all he told us we just have to say we believe.

. MY, IF Muhammad (sa) CALL THEM PROPHET, DON'T YOU THINK THERE MUST HAVE BEEN PROPHESIES THAT HE MUST HAVE STUDIED OR READ. IF YES, WON'T IT BE GOOD WE HAVE THIS PROPHESIES TO TRULY VALIDATE THEM AS PROPHET FROM YOUR QUORAN.

SEE ALL YOU HAVE POSTED IS ACCOUNT UPON ACCOUNT NOTHING PROPHETIC FROM YOUR PROPHET QUOTABLE FROM YOUR QUORAN

WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT THEY BECAME PROPHET BECAUSE Muhammad (sa) SAID SO. WHAO.

SO MUSILM CANNOT BENEFIT FROM THEIR PROPHECIES SINCE THEY ARE NOWHERE TO BE FOUND.

IF THIS IS TRUE THEN IT LEAVES MUCH TO BE DESIRED.

LagosShia:
you have being given prophecies that were reported to have being made by past prophets and which came true.those prophets are passed and gone.based on the truthfulness of Muhammad (sa) and his prophethood under its umbrella we are up to this day,we believe in the message of Muhammad (sa),thus we are muslims and not "christians" or "jacobians" or "jews"/"judeans".

if you are looking for each prophet to have prophecies on his own,then you are seeking to dictate what should be in the Quran.you are not only lost but mischievous.

FROM THE BOLD, ARE YOU SAYING YOU DON'T HAVE THIS PROPHESIES IN THE QUORAN. MEANS THEY WERE CALLED PROPHET BASED ON HEARSAY.

PLEASE CLARIFY AT LEAST WE ARE NOW HEADING SOMEWHERE.

LagosShia:
you have being given prophecies that were reported to have being made by past prophets and which came true.those prophets are passed and gone.based on the truthfulness of Muhammad (sa) and his prophethood under its umbrella we are up to this day,we believe in the message of Muhammad (sa),thus we are muslims and not "christians" or "jacobians" or "jews"/"judeans".

if you are looking for each prophet to have prophecies on his own,then you are seeking to dictate what should be in the Quran.you are not only lost but mischievous.

can you please give me the thread where you gave me this prophesies from each of your prophet. because for this propheies to have been fulfilled means it must have been written somewhere for us to see that they have been fulfilled

PLEASE AGAIN WHERE ARE THEY.

I CAN NEVER BE LOST MY STEP ARE ORDERED BY GOD.

SINCE YOU HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO MENTION A SINGLE PROPET'S PROPHESY FROM YOUR QUORAN QUALIFYING ADAM JOSEPH AND THE LIKE IN YOUR QUORAN.

I WONDER WHY ISLAM CALL THIS ONES PROPHETS

MOSES WAS NEVER CALLED A PROPHET IN THE BIBLE AT LEAST HE DID NOT OPERATE IN THE OFFICE OF A PROPHET.

MY DEAR YOU DON'T HAVE ANY ARGUMENT IF YOU CAN NOT POINT A PROPHECY TO ME IN YOUR QUORAN.

I AM STILL WAITING. THIS IS THE ONLY TIME I CAN START DEBUNKING ALL OF THE LIES YOU ARE QUOTING FROM THE BIBLE.

THANKS.

Sweetnecta:
^^^^^^^^^^^ this dude has no mind. if he has he would have seen my provision of the prophesies of Joseph, under it i gave prophesies of Jacob all the way till Jacob settled in egypt.

then i challenged manmacho to provide me with the prophesy of John the baptist in a way, but specifically the prophesies of Prophet Jesus. since your mind is dead, below are the prophesies of Joseph, then that of Jacob intertwining in there:

Let me take Joseph as an easy example and give you his prophesies; 1}. He said 11 stars and the moon and sun bowed to him. His father Jacob knew what he meant and Jacob prophesied in that very conversation that his brothers were his enemies.

We read that his brothers lied to their father and at the end of the day got rid of Joseph, selling him to egypt, the very place he will have the fulfillment of his bowing down to him.

His father knew that his sons were not sincere with him so he said patience is good.
At long last Joseph prophesied to the two prisoners.
And in turn later prophesied to the king and in turn his being a honored man people must bow to became a reality the only way his father [a prophet] even bowed to him, without worshiping him, fulfilling the dream with prophetic message.

What is remaining today for us all as people from what makes up prophetic office is true dreams, while revelations in form of books, etc ended with Muhammad [as], the last of the prophets.

The above contains many prophesies and all of them came to pass.


Jesus prophesied about a comforter after him who God will speak to. Who will hear what God speaks. Then transfer that to man without Adding or deducing from it. He will not use his own words, but whatever he hears he shall speaks.

He will correct the people. He will remind them of what Jesus said that is true. And he will correct people of any lies they tell about God, Angels, Prophets, including Jesus etc, etc and many other things.

He will give the absolute information of complete guidance to people because Jesus didnt. He will glorify Jesus in proper and in accurate measures. He will abide forever with man spiritually, what he brings from God will dwell in the hearts of believers forever. I say this prophesy of Jesus was about Muhammad [as], as Jesus mentioned him as Ahmad in the 6th verse of Chapter As Saffat of the Quran.

However, I want you to show us from the Bibles, considering the full description of the another comforter whether it was fulfilled in the Bibles. We must advise you that Jesus said he will return so quickly that some of the disciples will still be alive. That was over 2000 years ago, while Muhammad [as] came to fulfill the prophesy only 610 years, a ration that is today between 1/3 and 1/4 of how long Jesus has not fulfilled his returning prophesied so long ago. To God even 50000 years is a mere Day. Consider 610 years which is within 1 HOUR. thats how quickly Muhammad [as] came after Jesus.


could you list the prophesy of any prophet for us in the bible and give us proof of the fulfillment of the prophesy? then we shall go to the Quran and give you a better statement in prophesy of the prophet.

You can use Noah, Abraham, John, Jesus or any of them Quran mentioned. your choice. But i wonder what is the essence of this if you will not gain the reward of knowledge by it? Action is the reward of knowledge. Knowledge unused is no knowledge.

please lets not get excited at least have not said anything inciting.

thanks for your response anyways

but, you will agree with me that you are yet to show me from your quoran what made list i gave a prophet. please stop quoting from the bible i need prophesies from the aforemention from your quoran.

point of REAL correction Joseph was never a prophet at least not from the bible. that he had a dream does not make him a prophet remember pharoah and the king of babylon had dreams i had dreams too this does not make us a prophet you will agree.

John was a prophet, he spoke clearly about the coming of the lord. prophet are God's mouth piece they speak is counsel now and about what is to come. all biblical prophet fall into this categories. Ishiah Jeremiah are examples that comes to mind.

PLEASE WHERE IN THE QUORAN DID YOUR PROPHET PROPHESIED WHERE ARE THERE PROPHESIES LET US SEE THEM AND STOP QUOTING FROM THE BIBLE GIVE SAMPLE FROM THE QUORAN.

THIS OR NOTHING.

THANKS

THE PROPHECY OF THIS PROPHET SHOULD NOT BE HARD TO FIND WHERE ARE THEY IN THE KORAN

NOTE BUT; PROPHECY SAYS SOMETHING OF GOD ABOUT THE FUTURE WHICH MUST COME TO PAST.

WHERE ARE THE PROPHESIES OF THE PROPHET TELLING US ABOUT WHAT IS COME COME THAT WE CAN POINT TO TODAY

LagosShia:
[b]those prophets made prophecies in their time to their repective peoples.both the miracles and prophecies, and the prophets themselves are dead and buried.they bear no mark on us.[/b]the living miracle today is the Quranc which contains prophecies that have come to pass and others yet to pass.those past prophets we believe in them based the merit of the Quran and the stories of their lives in it.

How do Muslims honor the prophets?:
Muslims read about, learn from, and respect all of the prophets. Many Muslims name their children after them. In addition, when mentioning the name of any of God's prophets, a Muslim adds these words of blessing and respect: "upon him be peace" (alayhi salaam in Arabic).

we muslims are referred to as "the ummah of Muhammad" or the "nation of Muhammad".other prophets were sent toi their respective peoples too.you should perhaps ask their peoples to tell you what prophecies made them to believe in them.we muslims believe in them based on the truthfulness of Muhammad (sA) and the Quran.their stories are signs for us to ponder upon.

are you saying koran does not attribute any prophesy to the list you have given. they are merely called prophet because Muhammad (SA) said so.

the bolded what do you mean; islam does not have record of their porphesies. whao.

all the questions have asked about what you have said are yet to be answered.

thanks for the responses though

am not yet convinced.

LagosShia:
Jesus:

“He shall speak to people while still in the cradle, and in manhood, and he shall be from the righteous.” (Quran 3:46)

“I am indeed a servant of God. He has given me the Book and made me a Prophet, and He has made me blessed wherever I may be. And He has enjoined upon me prayers, and to pay the alms, as long as I live and (He has made me) kind to my mother, and He has not made me insolent, unblessed. And may Peace be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and on the Day I shall be raised to life.” (Quran 19:30-33)

“I create for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with God’s permission.” (Quran 3:49)

“I also heal the blind and the leper.” (Quran 3:49)

“…and I bring to life the dead, by the permission of God.” (Quran 3:49)

“I inform you too of what things you eat, and what you store up in your houses. Surely in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.” (Quran 3:49)

“Surely in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.” (Quran 3:49)

your response is very extraneous. i no you no the meaning of prophet. they foretell what is to come. what things to come did all your prophet that i have mentioned above give.

come on you can do better than just post a statement when i ask for propehsy.

you are yet to explain what you mean by other sources (also,we should not expect everything they spoke or are said to have spoken to be contained in the Quran as the Quran is a new revelation for the continuation of God's message on earth:
Holy Quran 2:141)

LagosShia:
i'm listening!

you should not be listening but giving me a direct to the questions answers.

thanks

i am not asking for a contest. i just want answers to what i have asked. please lets start from the answers then we can start talking.

the biblical prophet does not include adam, joseph abraham. i just wonder why islam refer to them as prophet without having any prophesy attached to them.

i may be wrong

Sweetnecta:
^^^^^^^^^^^ Lets take the prophesy or prophesies of Joseph as our example. You may also choose a prophet of your choice that Quran has in common with the Bibles.

List the prophesies from the Bibles. We shall list what the Quran says about whoever you pick.



What is the prophesy of Jesus from the Bibles? I am curious to know them. I am also asking you if you are sure that i will not be able to find a failed biblical prophesy from whatever you list about Jesus?


Let me ask if after the muslims met your challenge and even excelled beyond your expectation, what are you going to do? will you revert to Islam because that should be the logical thing to do?

LagosShia:
we believe in all prophets of Allah mentioned in the Quran on the account of the truthfulness of the Quran and the prophethood of Muhammad (sa).

some of the prophecies of previous prophets were either actualized by the coming of Muhammad (sa) as you can see here:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-772940.0.html

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-820160.0.html


some other prophecies let say the return of Jesus were reinstated by Muhammad (sa).and going through the pages of the Quran could show you more of their words either referred to or implied.i could for instance remember of particularly one that really has a strking similarity where mention of David's psalms and a promise/prophecy is stated which also even Jesus repeated (this seem a serious promise):

Psalm 37:29
"The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever".

Matthew 5:5
"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth".

Holy Quran 21:109
"Before this We wrote in the Psalms after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous shall inherit the earth."

also,we should not expect everything they spoke or are said to have spoken to be contained in the Quran as the Quran is a new revelation for the continuation of God's message on earth:
Holy Quran 2:141
"That is a nation which has passed on. It will have [the consequence of] what it earned, and you will have what you have earned. And you will not be asked about what they used to do".

as for the prophets themselves,here is what we are told:

The Noble Qur'an 2:136
Say (O Muslims), "We believe in Allâh and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrâhim (Abraham), Ismâ'il (Ishmael), Ishâque (Isaac), Ya'qûb (Jacob), and to Al-Asbât [the twelve sons of Ya'qûb (Jacob)], and that which has been given to Mûsa (Moses) and 'Iesa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islâm)."

The Noble Qur'an 4:152
And those who believe in Allâh and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of them (Messengers), We shall give them their rewards, and Allâh is Ever Oft­Forgiving, Most Merciful.

The Noble Qur'an 3:84
Say (O Muhammad ): "We believe in Allâh and in what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Ibrâhim (Abraham), Ismâ'il (Ishmael), Ishâque (Isaac), Ya'qûb (Jacob) and Al-Asbât [the twelve sons of Ya'qûb (Jacob)] and what was given to Mûsa (Moses), 'Iesa (Jesus) and the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between one another among them and to Him (Allâh) we have submitted (in Islâm)."

what other source are you referring to ( FROM THE BOLD). if i get you RIGHT, you are saying islam called them prophet becasue they must have their prophesy IN OTHER BOOK.

PLEASE WHAT OTHER ISLAMIC BOOK ARE WE TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE I AM SURE IS NOT THE BIBLE

those things that were sent down to them where are they written in your quoran. because before you call anybody a prophet he must have prophesied.

please quote the prophesies of Adam in your quoran for example.

LagosShia:
we believe in all prophets of Allah mentioned in the Quran on the account of the truthfulness of the Quran and the prophethood of Muhammad (sa).

some of the prophecies of previous prophets were either actualized by the coming of Muhammad (sa) as you can see here:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-772940.0.html

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-820160.0.html


some other prophecies let say the return of Jesus were reinstated by Muhammad (sa).and going through the pages of the Quran could show you more of their words either referred to or implied.i could for instance remember of particularly one that really has a strking similarity where mention of David's psalms and a promise/prophecy is stated which also even Jesus repeated (this seem a serious promise):

Psalm 37:29
"The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever".

Matthew 5:5
"Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth".

Holy Quran 21:109
"Before this We wrote in the Psalms after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous shall inherit the earth."

also,we should not expect everything they spoke or are said to have spoken to be contained in the Quran as the Quran is a new revelation for the continuation of God's message on earth:

Holy Quran 2:141
"That is a nation which has passed on. It will have [the consequence of] what it earned, and you will have what you have earned. And you will not be asked about what they used to do".

as for the prophets themselves,here is what we are told:

The Noble Qur'an 2:136
Say (O Muslims), "We believe in Allâh and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrâhim (Abraham), Ismâ'il (Ishmael), Ishâque (Isaac), Ya'qûb (Jacob), and to Al-Asbât [the twelve sons of Ya'qûb (Jacob)], and that which has been given to Mûsa (Moses) and 'Iesa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islâm)."

The Noble Qur'an 4:152
And those who believe in Allâh and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of them (Messengers), We shall give them their rewards, and Allâh is Ever Oft­Forgiving, Most Merciful.

The Noble Qur'an 3:84
Say (O Muhammad ): "We believe in Allâh and in what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Ibrâhim (Abraham), Ismâ'il (Ishmael), Ishâque (Isaac), Ya'qûb (Jacob) and Al-Asbât [the twelve sons of Ya'qûb (Jacob)] and what was given to Mûsa (Moses), 'Iesa (Jesus) and the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between one another among them and to Him (Allâh) we have submitted (in Islâm)."

LagosShia:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-849924.0.html#msg10002787

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-852158.0.html#msg10024733

where are the prophecies of adam, abraham joseph, david in your koran since you call them prophets.

from the quoran, i understand Adam, Abraham, David etc are prophet.

the question is where are their prophecy from from the quoran.

all biblical prophet have their prophecies written in the bible.

where are your??/

LagosShia:
you would be able to see the truth when you are able to do two things:

1.) Separate Jesus (who we muslims do not deny) from the "gospels" which are mostly fairytales composed by the early church.

2.) know that Jesus (as) is not responsible for what christianity says and what christians believe.


you are not here teaching me to love Jesus.there is a difference.you are here hallucinating to deceive me to believe as you do and follow christianity.and i have said i would join christianity if you answer two small questions:

I "LagosShia" Will Embrace Christianity On Two Little Conditions!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-847520.0.html

unfortunately,you guys have failed and only demonstrated rightly so that christianity (and likewise many doctrines christians hold) have nothing to do with Jesus (as).you cannot preach Jesus to a muslim because Jesus is right there in our Quran.what you preach is your own version of Jesus.and we reject that version for the right reasons in the world!!!

I NO CHRIST BY EXPERIENCE WE TALK AND HIS WORDS ARE TRUE. HE TELLS ME SO MUCH ABOUT THE FUTURE I CAN TELL YOU ITS A BEAUTIFUL EXPERIENCE. THE JOY HE GIVES ME WITHIN CANNOT BE COMPARED SO SAY ITS A PHONEY IS DENYING THE OBVIOUS.

I NO YOU HAVE ZEAL FOR GOD BUT U NEED KNOWLEGDE THIS KNOWLEGDE IS THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD

A TRIAL WILL CONVINCE YOU.

MANY MUSLIM CONVERT SHARES MY TESTIMONY.

WHAT U CALL A LIE MILLION HAD DIED FOR IT REFUSING TO DENY THIER FAITH IN JESUS

IF IT IS A LIE WHY DIE FOR IT.

YOU ALWAYS WANT PROVE WHEN ALL U NEED IS FAITH.

BELIEVING IS SEEING

LagosShia:
not interested in your preaching.you christians use all available tricks from insults to "love" to bribe to win converts.business as usual!

now you cannot claim ignorance of the Gospel. u have only refused what gives live, joy and peace. the grace of God which is not available in any other religion is avialble to you.

Jesus is real i am a testimony brother. i no you love God but u must worship him acceptably through Christ and no other.

i wnat to pray that God will show you a proof of who christ is, i bet you will soon shout halleluyah jesus is lord

LagosShia:
i guess this post should prove to you that i am not blind.i read,write and comprehend.so you are dumb!

am not dumb never will be.

But it would be better if u are physically blind and make heaven than to be spiritaully blind and loose in all.

you fight day and night for what u say is not true. the question is y fight so much against what is not real except of cousre you are trying to douse the truth of christainity that is hunting your conscience.

JESUS LOVES YOU. SAUL WAS WORSE

LagosShia:
blah blah blah!

satan has really overcome you and your likes.inspite of proof and reasoning you are hell bent on making him a false prophet.but you dont apply a little effort to check if Paul was a false prophet.you accept him to be under the spell of holy ghost on his own account.

guy; you are not only walking in darkness, you are blind and your mind's eye darkened. you no your destination except you called Jesus Lord the light cannot shine.

May you see THIS LIGHT.

bald headed igun
tribal mark wiper
bow leg monkey post
big head ori kan filamefa
sleep in class up nepa
runs from cain ogbo na

una no plenty reach now

make una come mobilise from nigeria to london to really drive the protest home from there.

aba, just send as plenty request as possibu!!!!!!!

Thank for your favourable consideration.

PAGAN 9JA:
christianity and islam sickens me more by the day.

you will need to go and see the doctor.

is well:
why some Nigerian never agree with GJ in what so ever he dose,may God help usoo!

most Nigerian are like spectator; they play better with there mouth than those on the field.

ask them take up little responsibilty, u go see flop everywhere.

leadership decision are never popular anywhere in the world. but a good leader will stand firm defiling all odds.

let us support our own. the president has been talking is a shame we are not listening.

let us make this sacrifice support subsidy. Nigeria na my country i must to do bettter for ram

vedaxcool:
That is why you are better off with Islam where Justice is done right!

ISLAM IS TOPPING THE CHART WITH THE RECORD OF METTING OUT JUSTICE TO DISBELIEVER

all my quotes are from the bible. use the bible to substantiate your conclusion.

anwer this question please. after rapture, will children born during this period go to heaven. or there won't be pregnacy then

vedaxcool:
That is what Jesus statement says, we are simply showing you the scriptures, the great burden falls upon you, do you accept the verse or not! Jesus statements clearly meant he will give a hundred replacement for everyone you leave!

you are intentionally loosing logic here. the verse u quoted inluded father children and many others. does that mean we will get 100 of all of them. simply answer this questions stop being dodgy.

some more scriptures to substantiate my claim:

Psalms 58:1
1. <<To the chief Musician, Altaschith, Michtam of David.>> Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men?
2 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth.
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
4 Their poison [is] like the poison of a serpent: [they are] like the deaf adder [that] stoppeth her ear;

(This says that it is after they are born that they start speaking lies. They say here that there is no exception.)

Psalms 51:5

5 Behold, I was shaped in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

(If you are conceived in sin then you have to be born in sin.)

Romans 6:23

23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

(If you are not old enough to know Jesus then you can not have salvation)

Romans 3:10

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

(If there is no one who is righteous, then a baby or small child isn't righteous and therefor can't go to heaven.)

2 Peter 2:14

14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam [the son] of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

(Children are cursed therefore they do not have salvation)

Romans 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

(This does not make a distinction between babies and adults. For all have sinned. How can a baby be pure if all have sinned?)

Romans 5:18

18 Therefore, as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation, even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

(We are all cursed for Adams sake.)

Genesis 2:17

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Job 14:1

1. Man [that is] born of a woman [is] of few days, and full of trouble.

1 Corinthians 15:22

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

(All die unless they accept Christ and a baby or young child is not able to accept Christ so they are condemned.)

Romans 9:11

11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

(You are only saved if you have been elected by God. If not you go to hell.)

Ephesians 2:1

1. And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

(These verses say that all of us start out dead because of sin and that children are disobedient so the children are the children of wrath. So they have no salvation because they do not have any faith.)

Ephesians 5:5

5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

(Babies are unclean because of Adam's sin.)

1 Corinthians 7:14

14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

(Says that your children were unclean.)

1 John 1:8

8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

(If we say that babies have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves.)

Romans 7:14

14. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

(Sin dwells in us, and no one can go to heaven with sin.)

Genesis 8:21

21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savor; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

(A young man is evil.)

Proverbs 22:15

15. Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

(A child goes to hell because they are foolish.)

Ecclesiastes 11:10

10 Therefore remove sorrow from thy heart, and put away evil from thy flesh: for childhood and youth [are] vanity.

John 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

(You have to be born again for salvation and a baby or child has not been born again.)

John 3:5

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(You can't enter heaven without water baptism.)

Micah 7:2

2 The good [man] is perished out of the earth: and [there is] none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.

(Since no one is upright a child or baby in not upright.)

John 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

(Since babies can not come to Jesus they are not saved.)

Hebrews 11:6

6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

(Babies and children are too young to believe so they can not come to God.)

Romans 10:10

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

(A baby or young child can not confess with their mouth so they can not be saved.)



Psalms 58:1
1. <<To the chief Musician, Altaschith, Michtam of David.>> Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men?
2 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth.
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
4 Their poison [is] like the poison of a serpent: [they are] like the deaf adder [that] stoppeth her ear;

(This says that it is after they are born that they start speaking lies. They say here that there is no exception.)

Psalms 51:5

5 Behold, I was shaped in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

(If you are conceived in sin then you have to be born in sin.)

Romans 6:23

23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

(If you are not old enough to know Jesus then you can not have salvation)

Romans 3:10

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

(If there is no one who is righteous, then a baby or small child isn't righteous and therefor can't go to heaven.)

2 Peter 2:14

14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam [the son] of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

(Children are cursed therefore they do not have salvation)

Romans 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

(This does not make a distinction between babies and adults. For all have sinned. How can a baby be pure if all have sinned?)

Romans 5:18

18 Therefore, as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation, even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

(We are all cursed for Adams sake.)

Genesis 2:17

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Job 14:1

1. Man [that is] born of a woman [is] of few days, and full of trouble.

1 Corinthians 15:22

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

(All die unless they accept Christ and a baby or young child is not able to accept Christ so they are condemned.)

Romans 9:11

11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

(You are only saved if you have been elected by God. If not you go to hell.)

Ephesians 2:1

1. And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

(These verses say that all of us start out dead because of sin and that children are disobedient so the children are the children of wrath. So they have no salvation because they do not have any faith.)

Ephesians 5:5

5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

(Babies are unclean because of Adam's sin.)

1 Corinthians 7:14

14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

(Says that your children were unclean.)

1 John 1:8

8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

(If we say that babies have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves.)

Romans 7:14

14. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

(Sin dwells in us, and no one can go to heaven with sin.)

Genesis 8:21

21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savor; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

(A young man is evil.)

Proverbs 22:15

15. Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

(A child goes to hell because they are foolish.)

Ecclesiastes 11:10

10 Therefore remove sorrow from thy heart, and put away evil from thy flesh: for childhood and youth [are] vanity.

John 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

(You have to be born again for salvation and a baby or child has not been born again.)

John 3:5

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(You can't enter heaven without water baptism.)

Micah 7:2

2 The good [man] is perished out of the earth: and [there is] none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.

(Since no one is upright a child or baby in not upright.)

John 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

(Since babies can not come to Jesus they are not saved.)

Hebrews 11:6

6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

(Babies and children are too young to believe so they can not come to God.)

Romans 10:10

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

(A baby or young child can not confess with their mouth so they can not be saved.)



Psalms 58:1
1. <<To the chief Musician, Altaschith, Michtam of David.>> Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men?
2 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth.
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
4 Their poison [is] like the poison of a serpent: [they are] like the deaf adder [that] stoppeth her ear;

(This says that it is after they are born that they start speaking lies. They say here that there is no exception.)

Psalms 51:5

5 Behold, I was shaped in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

(If you are conceived in sin then you have to be born in sin.)

Romans 6:23

23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

(If you are not old enough to know Jesus then you can not have salvation)

Romans 3:10

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

(If there is no one who is righteous, then a baby or small child isn't righteous and therefor can't go to heaven.)

2 Peter 2:14

14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam [the son] of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

(Children are cursed therefore they do not have salvation)

Romans 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

(This does not make a distinction between babies and adults. For all have sinned. How can a baby be pure if all have sinned?)

Romans 5:18

18 Therefore, as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation, even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

(We are all cursed for Adams sake.)

Genesis 2:17

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Job 14:1

1. Man [that is] born of a woman [is] of few days, and full of trouble.

1 Corinthians 15:22

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

(All die unless they accept Christ and a baby or young child is not able to accept Christ so they are condemned.)

Romans 9:11

11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

(You are only saved if you have been elected by God. If not you go to hell.)

Ephesians 2:1

1. And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

(These verses say that all of us start out dead because of sin and that children are disobedient so the children are the children of wrath. So they have no salvation because they do not have any faith.)

Ephesians 5:5

5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

(Babies are unclean because of Adam's sin.)

1 Corinthians 7:14

14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

(Says that your children were unclean.)

1 John 1:8

8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

(If we say that babies have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves.)

Romans 7:14

14. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

(Sin dwells in us, and no one can go to heaven with sin.)

Genesis 8:21

21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savor; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

(A young man is evil.)

Proverbs 22:15

15. Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

(A child goes to hell because they are foolish.)

Ecclesiastes 11:10

10 Therefore remove sorrow from thy heart, and put away evil from thy flesh: for childhood and youth [are] vanity.

John 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

(You have to be born again for salvation and a baby or child has not been born again.)

John 3:5

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(You can't enter heaven without water baptism.)

Micah 7:2

2 The good [man] is perished out of the earth: and [there is] none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.

(Since no one is upright a child or baby in not upright.)

John 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

(Since babies can not come to Jesus they are not saved.)

Hebrews 11:6

6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

(Babies and children are too young to believe so they can not come to God.)

Romans 10:10

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

(A baby or young child can not confess with their mouth so they can not be saved.)

some of the scriture i can get for now include;

1. He said at the beginning of the history of the covenant with Abraham, "I will establish My covenant between Me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee" (Gen. 17:7).

2. the promise is unto you, and to your children, even as many as the Lord our God shall call" (Acts 2:39).

3. Rebuking His unfaithful wife, Judah, in Ezekiel 16:20, 21, God exclaims, like an aggrieved Husband and Father, "Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter, that thou hast slain My children, ?"

4[b]. more precisely is [/b] Malachi 2:15: and did not God make one? did not one make you and preserve your spirit alive? and why one? because he sought a godly offspring ,

please bring up your point against this and my previous post. we could learn from one another.

i asked a simple question

if a little kid puts his hand in fire, will the fire pardon him for being unknowlegdeable. the answer is capital NO.

the sentence for sin is death and is passed to all (old and young alike). the concept of original sin made all a culprit.

you are not a sinner because u committed sin. you were born a sinner (with sin nature) that is why you sin.

Believer children are spared because the parent have been redeemed from the nature of sin. though the children had to be thought in the way of the Lord they already carry the nature of sinlessness whci they have to grow into.

he forgave them just as the bible teaches.

we no who our real enemy are: they are not flesh and blood.

but they are not pardoned the law of the state will still be applied against them