₦airaland Forum

mkmyers45: Are you trying to say that historical accounts of humans e.g Biblical figures like Moses,Aaron are falsified...Although we can draw similarities in them with characters from Egyptian records?

Yeah, either falsified or grossly embellished. . .

mkmyers45: now each religion claim certain things and all say they are from Gods and point to the life and acts of men as evident characters of their God...Are you trying to say that historical accounts of these men's life were wrong or falsified?

They are falsified. . .Some were completely made up. . .

https://i.huffpost.com/gen/160192/CARINA-NEBULA-PHOTO.jpg

"This craggy fantasy mountaintop enshrouded by wispy clouds looks like a bizarre landscape from Tolkien's "The Lord of the Rings" or a Dr. Seuss book, depending on your imagination. The NASA Hubble Space Telescope image, which is even more dramatic than fiction, captures the chaotic activity atop a three-light-year-tall pillar of gas and dust that is being eaten away by the brilliant light from nearby bright stars. The pillar is also being assaulted from within, as infant stars buried inside it fire off jets of gas that can be seen streaming from towering peaks.


Scorching radiation and fast winds (streams of charged particles) from super-hot newborn stars in the nebula are shaping and compressing the pillar, causing new stars to form within it. Streamers of hot ionized gas can be seen flowing off the ridges of the structure, and wispy veils of gas and dust, illuminated by starlight, float around its towering peaks. The denser parts of the pillar are resisting being eroded by radiation much like a towering butte in Utah's Monument Valley withstands erosion by water and wind."

What is the purpose of this endless explosion and destruction captured by the hubble space telescope?

MyJoe:
The story is told of an African leading his flock of sheep along a path. Suddenly he came upon a mountain, blocking his way. He quickly knelt down before the mountain, chanted some incantations and proceeded to collect some wood with which he lit a fire. He then tied up his fattest male sheep and burnt it in sacrifice to the mountain.

A white man came along the same road with his sheep and met the same obstacle. He took a good look at the mountain and began to explore it. He began by climbing to its top, finding gold and all sorts of precious things along the way,

The other day I was listening to a serious forum discussion on how to solve the unending crisis in Jos. During the phone-in segment, the first person to call in said the only way forward was prayers and fasting. A well-educated, serious-looking Nigerian woman was asked by a journalist to proffer solutions on the way out of the Israeli-Arab conflict. What did she say? You guessed it - "the only solution is God." I read the sad story of a girl who died of bosom cancer because she was taken to the hospital when the bosom had collapsed. At its early stage when chemotherapy would have been sufficient to take care of it, her people had summoned "men of God" to administer prayers upon her.

Did oyinbos have this problem too? Eric Hobsbawm, the famous British Jewish historian, has no doubt. According to him, Jews began to make outstanding impacts in all disciplines after the 18th century when they freed themselves from the application of Mosaic laws which they hitherto applied to the very last details of their lives. The laws blocked their minds and chained their imagination, threatening to keep them in the era of sea-parting gods. So the Jews' achievements came, not when they were "God's chosen people", but at the time they consciously rejected that identity! Mazaje has already made reference to the Dark Ages, when the Church had the final say on matters and people were being lynched for "witchcraft" all over Europe. Is it a coincidence that the human race has made more progress in the last 100 years than it has since the world began?

Don't assume for a moment that the West is now free of religious crack pots. After September 11, some pastor said it was because the twin towers resembled the Tower of Babel. God had to bring them down! But while you still have these people among oyinbos, they don't do much damage because they appear to be in the minority. So even in the rare case that they occupy responsible positions (like that Pentagon general who said he saw the devil flying over Somalia) there are enough rational people to offset the damage they do.

Here in Africa you find them in every state house and office building. In another thread I made reference to the foolish governor of a troubled state in the Middle Belt of Nigeria who went to sleep knowing that a community under his watch was going to be attacked that night without doing something concrete to stop it. The following day he woke up and declared three days of prayer and fasting to forestall further occurrences.

How can people make progress who rely on God to work for them? I am sorry to say, but the majority of African people are like children who refuse to deal with the complexity of the world around them, but look to a big daddy up there to take care of things. There can be no grain of doubt that superstition and irrationality sit at the pith of, or, at least, play a large part in Africa's backwardness. It is a sad story.

Thanks brother you have said it far better than I could say it myself. . . . .I have a friend who just came here from Nigeria, he came along with his pastor's preaching from Nigeria. . . .I listened to it and was SHOCKED from what I heard. . . . .The guy said that Africans are backward and under developed because god is still punishing us for the sins of our forefather which is idol worshipping. . . . He also said our ancestors sold our future to the devil. . . .After a while the guy went into another daitribe on how the arabs are trying to destroy god's chosen people. . . .He continued with some crazy talk about the end of the world. . .He was berating the arabs for building the tallest building and the world and promised that his imaginary god will take it down, comparing the building with the mythical tower of babel. . . .The worst part of the pathetic story is that the guy is a medical doctor. . .His name is pastor banky. . . .A famous guy that preaches in Enugu Nigeria. . . . .I was shocked. . . .How can a continent progress when half its population believe that the world will end during their life time?. . . .Why make plans for the next 50-100 years when you believe that it will all end soon? And we wonder why we still remain the scum and dumping ground of the world :'. . .PATHETIC!!!!!!!

OLAADEGBU:
This reminds me of the timeless Words of Jesus Christ our Saviour and Lord, saying:

"Give not that which is holy to the dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." -- Matthew 7:6

What exactly is "holy" in a book that says the deity a deity it claims is all good and just consorts with his angels to tell lies. . . . .If this passage were found in the koran you will be all over the place telling the moslems what a liar their deity is. . . .Now that it is your own deity that is found lying to people you are all over the place throwing one meaningless bible verse after the other. . . . . . . . . .

Image123:
@mazaje and his cohorts
One thing you should bear in mind, as unbelievers, you have no capacity to receive spiritual things AND you do not know God. Why not allow those who know Him the privilege of trying to showing Him to you?

I used to be like you because I was once under the christian bubble of delusion. . . .I used to excuse these verses and try to explain them away with answers that do not even make sense even to me back in the days when I was a christian. . . .If the verse were in the koran you will SEE it exactly for what it is and denounce allah and his angels as lairs. . . . .There is nothing spiritual there. . .all i see is deluded people trying to hide the obvious even when it means lying to themselves. . . . .Keep on keeping on. . . .

AYODEJI4LOVE:
tank u dear.bt pls if i find favour in your sight,can u pls read noetic post right frm d begin.pls mazaje,i want u 2 read in line wit love&a balance hrt.pls dont turn down my request.u won my arrogance wit your statement.xpectin your reply

I read noetic's statement right from the begining, he was making statements that aren't found in the bible. . . . .Stay blessed brother. . . .

davidylan:
But there's more . . . 25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

Jeremiah was talking about what will happen after the anger of God had fallen unto unto the city according to the vision he saw. . . .All the birds fled and there was no man. . . .Here is more from the verse 4. . . .

Jer 4: 8 For this, clothe yourself with sackcloth, Lament and wail. For the fierce anger of the LORD Has not turned back from us.
Jer 4:9 "And it shall come to pass in that day," says the LORD, "[That] the heart of the king shall perish, And the heart of the princes; The priests shall be astonished, And the prophets shall wonder."
Jer 4:10 Then I said, "Ah, Lord GOD! Surely You have greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, Saying, 'You shall have peace,' Whereas the sword reaches to the heart."
Jer 4:11 At that time it will be said To this people and to Jerusalem, "A dry wind of the desolate heights [blows] in the wilderness Toward the daughter of My people-- Not to fan or to cleanse--
Jer 4:12 A wind too strong for these will come for Me; Now I will also speak judgment against them."

Man? Birds? But these were not created until Gen 1:22 and 27! There are only two instances that describe such a barren earth . . . the creation and the flood. If Jeremiah were describing the flood then he would be wrong as there were men on earth (Noah and his sons) and birds didnt flee to anywhere. Just who were these men and birds who fled the earth and when? Why did they leave the earth without form and void?

Jeremiah was NOT describing the flood or the creation at all. . .He was describing the doom that was to come on the land because of the judgement spoken against them by yahweh. . . .How do you read?. . . . . . .The men were the inhabitants of Judah. . . The kings, prophets and princes and priest as written in verse 4:9

But oops theres more . . . 26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

Which fruitful places and which cities is Jeremiah speaking of? When did they exist? He couldnt have been speaking of the flood as a wilderness did not exist during the flood if not Noah would not have needed an ark. When did this desolation occur?

The fruitful places he was talking about is the cities of Judah. . .Jerusalem and the rest of the cities. . .

Jer 4: 21O my soul, my soul! I am pained in my very heart! My heart makes a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, Because you have heard, O my soul, The sound of the trumpet, The alarm of war.
Jer 4:20[b] Destruction upon destruction is cried, For the whole land is plundered. Suddenly my tents are plundered, [And] my curtains in a moment.[/b]
Jer 4:21 How long will I see the standard, [And] hear the sound of the trumpet?
Jer 4:22 "For My people [are] foolish, They have not known Me. They [are] silly children, And they have no understanding. They [are] wise to do evil, But to do good they have no knowledge."

Verse 4:23-26 describes what he saw happen to the land. . . . .

If the earth is 6000 yrs old only, when did Jeremiah's vision occur?

Jeremiah's vision had NOTHING to do with any world before adam or any creation account the vision occured when the people went against the wishes of yahweh and he decided to destroy them. . The vision of the already destroyed and desolate land was what he saw in his vision. . . .Verse 28 even explains it better. . .

Jer 4: 28 For this shall the earth mourn, And the heavens above be black, Because I have spoken. I have purposed and will not relent, Nor will I turn back from it.
Jer 4:29 The whole city shall flee from the noise of the horsemen and bowmen. They shall go into thickets and climb up on the rocks. Every city [shall be] forsaken, And not a man shall dwell in it.

How then did you come to the conclusion that the vision was talking about a world before adam? . . . .No wonder there are different versions of christianity every where. . . . .Is this not the same davidylan that was saying that atheist do not read and understand the bible?. . . . .

What exactly is davidylan trying to say here

davidylan:
Let me say that when God calls Adam the "first man" in Gen 2:7, it is in reference to Adam as the first "man" created "in the image of God. Look at these 2 verses . . . Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters

This is Moses describing a vision of the creation of man. But how come the earth was "without form and VOID" if it had NEVER at any time contained anything? Void of what?

So the creation account written in the bible was a vision Moses saw eh?. . . .How can the earth be without form if it was previously inhibited by other living beings? . . . .According to the biblical account the earth was empty(void) because Yahweh had not yet created plants and animals. . . .How difficult is that to understand?

Jeremiah describes this vision even better - - - Jer 4:23[b] I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void[/b]; and the heavens, and they had no light

What has the vision in Jeremiah which was about an imminent invasion and the prophecy of sorrow for a doomed nation got to do with the genesis creation account?. . . .

Ah, here Jeremiah sees exactly the same thing Moses saw . . . an earth with no form and void just as it were before the creation of Adam. But Jeremiah sees more . . . 24[b] I beheld the mountains[/b], and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

NO, the vision in Jeremiah was about the doom and sorrow that was promised upon Judah by Yahweh for their wrong doings. . . . .The subject heading beginning from verse 5 from the new king james version reads " An imminent invasion" Jeremiah according to the passage saw a vision of an imminent invasion that was about to befall on Judah from Yahweh for their sins. . . .

Jer 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, And take away the foreskins of your hearts, You men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, Lest My fury come forth like fire, And burn so that no one can quench [it], Because of the evil of your doings."

Jer 4:5 Declare in Judah and proclaim in Jerusalem, and say: "Blow the trumpet in the land; Cry, 'Gather together,' And say, 'Assemble yourselves, And let us go into the fortified cities.'

Jer 4:6 Set up the standard toward Zion. Take refuge! Do not delay! For I will bring disaster from the north, And great destruction."

Mountains and hills? Where did Jeremiah see those and how did he know what they were called? If we read Genesis literarily then there were no hills and mountains while the earth was without form and void, infact hills and mountains (dry land) arent created until verse 9 of Gen 1.

Are you just conflating passages that have NOTHING to do with each other?. . . .The subject heading from the NKJV for Jeremiah 4:19- 31 reads "Sorrow for the doomed nation". . . .The passage is talking about the prophecy of doom that was about to come to the land NOT about the any creation account. . . .

The passage goes further and says. . .

Jer 4:27 For thus says the LORD: "T[b]he whole land shall be desolate; Yet I will not make a full end[/b].

Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, And the heavens above be black, Because I have spoken. I have purposed and will not relent, Nor will I turn back from it.

Jer4: 29 The whole city shall flee from the noise of the horsemen and bowmen. They shall go into thickets and climb up on the rocks. Every city [shall be] forsaken, And not a man shall dwell in it.

noetic16:
This is rather ridiculous.

The ancient centuries are called dark ages because of the difference and advancement of technology we have now in comparison to then. It has absolutely nothing to do with religious beliefs.
If u claim that religious beliefs have been dumped. . . , .

From wikipedia(Dark ages). . . ."During the 17th and 18th centuries, in the Age of Enlightenment, many critical thinkers saw religion as antithetical to reason". . . . .According to the same wikipedia(Age of enlightenment) It says that "The Age of Enlightenment (or simply the Enlightenment) is the era in Western philosophy and intellectual, scientific and cultural life, centered upon the eighteenth century, in which reason was advocated as the primary source and legitimacy for authority.". . .Once religion and its mythical claims were dumped and reason was embraced europe moved forward. . . .

how many developed world leaders are atheist? dude, your ignorance stinks

How many developed country leaders depend on god to help them solve their problems?. . .When was the last time you heard the country of any developed nation praying to god to deliver health care or electricity to its citizens?. . .How many scientist, economist, and government bureaucrats in developed countries say that they expect the world to end during their life time?. . . .

The advancement in technology and improvement in human life has more to do with the zeal and patriotism and ultimately the need for such development. Africa's socio-economic problems are largely due to corruption, greed, lack of a universal identity and patriotism.

It seems you have not gotten the point I am making. . . .Why should people be patriotic to their countries when half the people living in it believe that the world is going to end during their life time?. . . .Why tackle corruption in government when you believe that in the world will end in a very short time, why bother?. . .

why are u recycling your over-beaten assertions?

Since the arabs/muslims also believe that the world would end soon . . . . .why EXACTLY are they developing Dubai and other places to be economically relevant over the next 50 years?

How many people in the muslim world have told you that they expect thew world to end during their life time? %0 percent of africans said they expect that to happen during their life time. . .

This is the kind of assertions that makes my belly ache So God asked your leaders to loot the treasury, right? and God asked contractors to embezzle their funds. . .rights?
Dude, Get real. Many commit crime and hide under anything to justify their crime. To believe the ridiculous assertion stated in the above post IMO tells a lot about your objectivity.

1. You believe the former president when he said that , . . but u disbelieve him when he said he is the best leader Nigeria ever had. are u intelligent at all, mazaje? why pick and choose the ridiculous assertions of politicians to believe? why did u not believe him when he also said that he is the best leader ever?

2. have u asked those who believe in God helping them get a job . . . .what they mean by that statement. FYI . . , it does not mean God, writes their CV or applies for them . . . .but God through His divine grace and provision brings their petition to fulfilment.

3. the fact that people plan for the next 50 years is evidence that religious beliefs in INDEPENDENT of economic and political decisions.

The point I am trying to make is simple we will never develop if we hold unto religious beliefs that make half the people on the continent to believe that the world is going to end during their life time. . . .

petres_007:
@mazaje,

One question for you, since you've seen the video: do you still think there's no intelligence behind the creation/existence of the universe? Did nothing in the video sound cedible enough to at least make you look into the possibility that the universe really was created?

Firstly. . . .What intelligent design is there in colliding asteroids, comets with themselves and other planets and a universe with hundreds of billions of galaxies that is are expanding infinitely into space?. . . .To me the universe just is. . . .It wasn't created for any purpose and it doesn't serve any purpose. . . .Take a look at the earth for example. . . .Scientist tell us that over 90 percent of the species that have ever lived are now extinct. . . .What's the purpose of that? Species coming into existence living and dying out into a state of oblivion?. . . .The earth is conducive for life and that's it. . .How life came into existence nobody knows. . . .I believe that the universe came into existence from something, What that something is what scientist are trying to find out because no body knows. . . .No cosmologist says that the universe came from nothing as suggested by William Craig. . .

The big bang theory does not establish that the universe had a beginning or was created from nothing. What it states is that the cosmos(our four-dimensional space-time) can be traced back to a cosmic singularity. Some people thereby assume that said cosmic singularity represents "the beginning" but that is just an assumption on their part. . . .The fact of the matter is that we simply do not know if that really was the "beginning", or whether there exists some as-yet-undiscovered mechanism that generates cosmic singularities, some or all of which then go on to become universes. . . . .

Secondly. . . . a ''creator'' resolves nothing. If I were to you ask the question what created the creator, your response will be that the creator requires no creation. So now we have two possibilities:

a) The universe was created by creator who requires no creation

b) The universe requires no creation and always is. . . . .

petres_007:
ol boy ehhhhh. . . see enuf acrobatics

I know say you no go disappoint me

Can you point to the acrobatics and lets discuss it. . .Thank you. . . .

noetic16:
@ Mazaje

1. why dont u ask for the explicit ontology of God. . .before u start spilling out your unfortunate ignorance. All things that exist, whether in light or darkness are subject to the authority of God. . . . .to think otherwise is to have no idea of the ontological nature of God.

Now we are back to ontology again. . . .Will you stop shooting yourself on your foot?. . .So host from hell can be summoned upon to go about carrying out yahweh's dirty laundry eh?. . . .How do you reconcile that to the free will concept you guys keep bandying around?. . . .

2. When the bible says nothing joins light and darkness, it talks about will, judgement, nature but NOT about authority cos God still reigns supreme.

. . . . .

The above is unfortunately ridiculous and shows a contempt and disdain for knowledge. what would be the basis of the faith of xtians if God had no authority over dark forces?

can u just pause and think before posting at all?

what has free-will got to do with the counsel Ahab received from the prophets? are u confused?

A little objectivity and honesty on your part will reveal that prior to that encounter the king deduces from his conversation with Jehosaphat that the other 400 prophets were natural liars who always tells the king what he wants to hear?. . implying that they are false prophets. . . .why did u not deduce that from the passage?

Since u knwo so much about Yahweh . . .how does He choose to expose false prophets?

. . . . .What exactly is it you are saying?. . . . .

noetic16:
did God ask Jephtah to sacrifice his daughter? . . . .the moment u stop being honest in debates. . . .u have lost all credibility.

Actually the debate was NOT about Jephthah' weather yahweh asked for the girl to be sacrificed or not, You said that she was NOT killed and offered as a burnt offering unto Yahweh even when the bible VERY CLEARLY said that she was killed and offered as a burnt offering unto Yahweh. . . .

OLAADEGBU:
These kind of assumptions are the reasons a lot of us (Christians) get into error when reading our own meanings into scriptures.  Has it occured to you that if God had written anywhere in the Bible that was inspired almost 2000 years ago with the words or figures that the earth was created 6,000 years that it would have been outdated by the time we read them today?  If God said 6,000 years 2,000 years ago how many years would it be  would it be when we read it today?

The age of the earth debate ultimately comes down to this foundational question: Are we trusting in man's imperfect and changing ideas and assumptions about the past?  Or are we trusting God's perfectly accurate eyewitness account of the past?

This would be a topic for another thread as I do not want to divert folks away from the topic at hand.

Davidylan says that according to the bible, the universe is not 6,000 years old. . . .He also claimed that the bible says that the books of Genesis and Jeremiah make a clear case for a world that was definitely much much older than we think and was clearly inhabited by other organism before the creation of man, What do you have to say about these since you believe that according to the bible the universe is only 6000 years old. . .

petres_007:
@Mantraa,

Thanks a bunch for your input! But I'd like for us to take it one step at a time, please. One step at a time.

The scientists (except for Strobel himself) in the video (which I urge you to watch one more time) were simply drawing their conclusions based on scientific evidence that point powerfully toward the fact that some intelligence of some sort must have been involved in the creation/existence of the universe. Not that Yahweh or anyone else did it.

The video was so one sided and made claims that scientist never made. . .William Craig was there lying that cosmologist say that the universe came out of nothing. . . .That is FALSE . . .The universe was not created out of nothing. The big bang states that there was a singularity that expanded, but it was certainly not "nothing". What it was is a singularity, where it came from is what no one really knows. But saying "nothing from nothing" is a nothing more than a straw man used by creationists like Craig. . . .Science doesn't make assumptions unnecessarily, it follows the scientific method. If a god or creator with human attributes doesn't fit into the scientific method then it gets left out of the theory.    

Its true Strobel is a Christian now and so the video has a Christian "flavour" to it but I implore you guys to please ignore that for now and lets focus on the fact there is overwhelming evidence that there certainly was some kind of intelligence & purpose involved in creation.

What is the purpose of the universe? William Craig said that the universe was created for life. How so?. . .If the universe is created for life then why is life found and can only thrive only on some parts of the earth? There could be life else where in other planets since there are gazillions of them, no body knows but was not created for life since life can only survive in a very very small part of the universe. . .Life can not even survive outside space on its own without special man made gadgets. . . .

What purpose do the gazillions of stars serve? What purpose does a star serves since all stars come into existence, live for a very long time explode, destroy themselves and all the planets that orbit them. . . .What's the purpose of colliding asteroids, comets and other space bodies? Whats the purpose of the dwarf planets like pluto and others like it that are found in our solar system? Whats the purpose of so many other empty(with out life) solar systems that have been found with planets orbiting them?. . . .Whats the purpose of the ever expanding galaxies?. . . .What is the purpose of the expanding universe?. . . . .   

I hope to start other threads about which "god" or "gods" (as mazaje insinuated in anothe thread) did create the universe or which one is most likely to have done it.

I will like you to provide evidence and prove to us that Yahweh alone created the universe and not oneness of infinity. . . .

I have watched the video and here are my thoughts on the video. . . .Lee Stroble is a journalist who knows how to cook a story. His idea of investigation is very one sided. Whereas the first rule of journalism is present both sides of the issue without choosing a side. It shouldn't matter if one is an atheist or christian, if you are a journalist the storyline should be neutral. He did not interview any atheist or non christian scientist, I saw him interview Christian scientist from the discovery institute and William Craig who was telling outright lies and saying things that scientist and cosmologist NEVER said. He began by first trying to say that atheist are bad people as usual . . .He claimed that his wife became a good person and started living a good life when she became a christian. . . . . . . . .

To the video and what it talks about. . . .This video is just a video that tries to discredit the scientific explanation for the origin of the universe and species with out providing any counter evidence to show that the god of the bible created the universe, It just says that the universe was created and god of the bible did it with out explaining how or why?. . . .The first 10 minutes focuses on one of science's greatest strengths. The undoing of a very suggestive experiment by continued experimentation.

I'm talking about the Miller-Urey experiments of the 1950's that developed amino acids by sparking chemicals in a closed environment based on the atmosphere then thought to be the atmosphere of the early earth. Later, scientists changed their minds, based on further work, and posited that there wasn't near the hydrogen in the atmosphere of the early earth as originally thought (and which Miller-Urey was based on). . . . . .

The video suggests, Miller-Urey prove nothing and "god exists." Instead of going forward into the latest theories about how life developed on earth, that developed after Miller-Urey, the video goes backward to Oparin and the 1920s. Lovely. . . . . .What the video ignores is that as experiments continued into the 1970s and 80s, a whole new theory of life developed based on anaerobic life around ocean vents possibly being the spark of life. The ocean vent theory is by now fairly advanced, but, of course is ignored in the video. . . . . .

Then the video criticizes Darwin because Darwin had a little drawing in origin showing a tree of life. The video then says the fossil record does not show transitional forms, emphasizing particularly the cambrian era. . . . Criticizing the fossil record is an old tried and true creationist tactic. What the video doesn't tell the viewer is that, in fact, significant numbers of transitional fossils have been found (for example, the whale, birds, humans). I mean, fossil science has really only been around in a serious way for about 200 years now. The video completely ignores the fact that new, hitherto unknown fossils are found literally every 3 or 4 months. . . . . .

Then the video spins off on the big bang, suggesting that the idea that the universe popped out of nowhere implies it was created. The sophist William Craig came on and started lying about what science did NOT even say. . . He said that according to modern day cosmology the universe came into existence out of nothing . . .Science does NOT say that the universe came out of nothing it says that the universe started expanding from a singularity. . . .Was the Big Bang dependent on something else? Maybe on the original singularity. But is there anybody who knows what the singularity is dependent on? The singularity might have been dependent on something else. . . . No body knows. . . .

noetic16:
This is meaningless . . . , considering that the west used to be more religiously zealous than africa, yet is not backward. Africa's failure cannot be sorely blamed on religion. . , to do so would amount to intellectual dishonesty.

Do you know what they tag the period which they used to be overtly religious and depend on their gods for everything?. . .They called it the DARK AGES. . . .When they were over zealous with their religions they were Just like us, but once they shed their mythical beliefs and accepted the naturalistic view they were able to build air planes, discover the DNA, discover electricity, build nuclear power and bombs, discover elements, discover microscopic organisms, improve on their health care delivery, improve their life expectancy rate, build functional economies etc. . .

please say something new.

The arabs also believe that the world would come to an end as mohammed foretold . . yet they developed Dubai, Saudi Arabia and other arabian places. The papacy also believes that the world would come to an end as the bible foretells . . . .yet this has not stopped the continuous development of the vatican and rome . . , so what EXACTLY is your point mazaje?

Which poll told you that 50 percent of the cardinals, or Muslims living in Vatican or Dubai believe that Jesus or Mohammad is going to come back during their life time? I repeat the belief that we hold is what is stopping us from moving forward. . .Why would people demand change or make plans for the next 50 years when over 50 percent of them believe that the world will end in their life time?

You are the one with an inferior complex and mentality here, who considers the white man and some "mythical gods" the source of all problems. This is largely unobjective . . .Africa has problems because of its moral and leadership bankruptcy. . , simple.

We shall see.

African's have problems because of the type of believes we hold. . .As long as we keep believing that our problems can only be solved by external and supernatural forces there will be nothing for us. . .Imagine the former president of Nigeria saying that our electricity problems should be left in the hands of god . . .People believe that it is god that will create jobs for them, heal them when they are sick, provide food for them, give them happiness etc. . .Again why would people plan for the next 50 years when some of our leaders also believe that the world is going to end during their life time?

AYODEJI4LOVE:
honestly speakin i laugh weneva u utter d word shut up.somtin drop 2 my mind nw.ok am sori 4 all dose insult bt i dont lik dat thread.dat name u mention is mor dan wat u tink.i dont mean 2 hurt u bt i must tell u d truth'pls read d whole chapter of dat scripture&try 2 understand y GOD did dat.bt WAT WI U DO IF U FIND OUT DAT WAT U BELEIVE IS A LIE

Sorry if I insulted you in any way too. . . .I am willing and ready to accept whatever the outcome if my beliefs are wrong. . . .

I'll watch the video and post my comments after watching it. . . . .

AYODEJI4LOVE:
@mazaje.
u're asking a silly question.hw did u even make it 2 nairaland.i wonder hw u knw hw 2 browse and i wonder if u av a job.askin me a sily question and postin a sily thread.why nt read the whole bible.idiot.off i go.prayin 4 u

SHUT UP!!!!

davidylan:
the bible is meant for genuine believers in Christ . . . not theists.

Over 30,000 genuine believers in christ all claiming monopoly of who truly understand the bible and its teachings eh?. . . .Example Old earth and young earth creationist. . .  all the people that adhere or hold these opposite views all claim that they alone understand what the bible teaches no?. . . .

What about those that believe that Jesus is the same as god and those that do not believe he is the same as god but a child of god that is presently sitting on the right hand of god?Do they not all base their beliefs based on the teachings of the bible?. . . .Who amongst these people truly understands the bible or is a genuine christian?. . . . .

fashionkid:
Not samuel but Saul,God sent evil spirit 2 torment saul because saul has sinned.pls read it wit an open mind.

Thanks for the correction. . .Saul I wanted to say. . .So lying to people because they disobey you is a good thing eh?. . .Interesting. . .

The endless appeal to inteligent desing again eh?. . . Your evidence to show that the god the white people brought to your great gand parents is the one that created the universe is WHAT?. . . . .

fashionkid:
Also remember that d purpose of that encounter was 2 lead ahab 2 his doom because of his sins.Yahweh wil not lie 2 d good.

I thought the bible also says that yahweh sent evil spirits to torment samuel?

fashionkid:
Listen folks,God has d power 2 command spirits.Remember dt those spirit lied didn't mean they are lying spirits.

So what you are saying is that Yaweh commanded the spirits to lie. . . .

Pastor AIO:
If I had time as I used to in the days of yore, I would start a thread on the evolution of Yahweh.

Pls do i will be very interested in it. . . .

InesQor:
@Deep Sight: Ok. You have done well. I thought you were asking for my views on the matter but once again I have misjudged your purposes. I would have ignored the thread (because I know mazaje), if not for your post in #2 or so.


You plainly seek an avenue for an argument, (and I no longer have time to waste on such nowadays) because now you are asking me WHY God did what he did, and unfortunately I am not one of those that try to use numbers to explain away their God's intents and getting stuck everytime.


I keep giving you the benefit of the doubt when you ask for my views but you always end up doing "this". They are MY views according to the Biblical scriptures, and you will please simply recognize, disagree with, or ignore them.


Dont ask for them only to start an argument that will never end because neither of us has all the answers, or at least I dont. I wonder WHY you ask these questions if you believe you have the answers. Easy does it.

I have deep respect for you and I truly mean it. . . .I understand your explanations. . . . Even though it sounds silly to me but it was borne out of what the passage was talking about. . . .I've noticed that you read the bible and make your own conclusions based on what it says, you don't usual go the extra mile of joining one and two together to make sense out of what is written. . .What i find incredible and laughable is when people go to ridiculous extent to say what the bible does not even say in order to justify their own opinions about what is written in the bible. . . .

MandingoII:
Brothers and sisters, the white man has brainwashed us black people to fasten our gaze upon a blondhaired, blue-eyed Jesus! We're worshiping a Jesus that doesn't even look like us! . The blond-haired, blue-eyed white man(Arab) has taught you and me to worship a white Jesus, and to shout and sing and pray to this God that's his God, the white man's God. The white man has taught us to shout and sing and pray until we die, to wait until death, for some dreamy heaven-in-the-hereafter, when we're dead, while this white man his his milk and honey in the streets paved with golden dollars here on this earth!


-Malcom X

Good summary of it all. . . .

^^

https://www.atheist-community.org/images/cartoon/jmU2416322xKPO26sP26.jpg

frosbel:
How did man biologically progress over the last 100 million years, lol. 

100 million years ago there was no man according to the theory. . . . . .

noetic16:
The old mazaje qualifies , . . . , but the new mazaje has dumped that ignorance

What are writings and superstitions? The words that have been real for a whole lot of people CANNOT be regarded as superstition? how do u explain the miracles billions of people experience all over the world? on what authority and in what capacity do u deny these experiences?

As for miracles we hear about miracles all the time don't we?. . . .

https://www.atheist-community.org/images/cartoon/1812u1114232O5152115bk2.jpg