₦airaland Forum

Henry240:
Nigeria COIN

There is no country in SSA which has developed the sort of capacity we have to deal with contemporary African threats.

You enjoy putting these rubb..ish here.

What are "contemporary African threats"?

Africa is not a country.

Odunayaw:
Well if you put it that..I fantasize about Nigeria having HALEs at times

Sats offer the capability to conduct surveillance even on your friends without messing up relations.

like submarines.

Odunayaw:
Well if you put it that..I fantasize about Nigeria having HALEs at times

Sats offer the capability to conduct surveillance even on your friends without messing up relations.

nemesis2u:
u guys r quoting unit price or the unit price + weapons + total/designated lifecycle costs for the NAF hinds ?

They keep saying the Rooivalk is expensive cause of those quotes.

kikuyu1:
How does the armour compare with the ACH?

I don't know much about the ACH.

They are in different classes.

kikuyu1:
I do know the Rooivalk has significant advantages;can deploy 16 ATMs and shares commonality with the Puma but as I've said a lite version would've sold. As it is a HCH going for 45mn$ in the Euro tiger/Apache territory is strictly reserved for 1st world nations and their political economic reach.
I've just seen the Indian ACH armour test. It resist 7.62 NATO up to 12.7 mm costing 30mn$.

Not bad at all!

Problem is funding.

Remember it was primarily designed for the SAAF. Funding for the development of a new version needed to come from sales.

GreenandGold:
I personally wonder what happened to all the airframes (including of those converted into the Atlas Cheetah)..... I know some were downed in Angola but that's less than a dozen, others sold in to Chile then others on static display... But there should be a dozen more floating around in some hangars.


Then there's the issue of 260 Impala MK/MK2 trainers/light attack which were produced for the SAAF in the same era.. I'm no aircraft engineer but 100+ should be able to fly, I haven't seen those flying since they were retired for the BAE Hawk.

Others still offered by Paramount.

Some to Ecquador and also Gabon I think.

Covert1:
From Who against South Africa?

Supports SA's foreign policy.

Political leaders will prefer to deal with things on the table rather than military action. As seen in Lesotho.

ssaengine:
...

Isn't this a Namibian operator.

What happened here?

kikuyu2:
Here's the Finnish AMOS,a double barrelled 120 mm on a 8x8 Patria,the Saffers have the Badger. Btw,its capable of direct fire!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwDlOdLZVwY

Alas! That's a 7 mn$ piece of weaponry so we're stuck with the mortar you showed earlier.

The mortar variant if the Badger can't be compared to the AMOS equipped Patria.

120mm vs 60mm on the Badger. Artillery vs infantry system.

iblawi:
The Rooivalk is useless because rebel took over the city but Hinds are still useful in Nigeria, Libya, Pakistan, Afghanistan Syria, Iraq, etc. Terrorist took over many cities in those countries but hinds did the needful.

South Africa alway running from major confrontation from Central African Republic to Sudan then Burundi and now Congo.

The military is led by civilians whom handle the foreign policy. So far that seems to work well. SADC is more peaceful than all African regions then there must be something right being done.

There no point knowing you have the biggest stick that you still gotta go around not listening to others. South African soldiers were the first to deploy to Burundi.

Sudan mission is under UN and the host country didn't allow certain equipment to brought in. Meaning they enjoy or are still exploiting the crisis.

Your intentions are shown here for everyone to see that this isn't about the inferior design of the Mi-24 but rather a case of sour grapes. As seen by the rapid shift from discussing attack helicopter designs to South Africa not using cowboy foreign policies.

iblawi:
Upgrade gripen C/D to E/F? And South Africa will use 9 pilots to fly 26 Gripens.

The funny part is that you still want to increase the numbers.

Funnily you decide to deal with the analogy instead.

The numbers can increase overnight if operational requirements demand.

1. South Africa unlike during the 80s, 90s and early 2000s has one fighter Squadron.

2. Not all pilots qualified on the Gripen will be with that squadron until the end of their careers. Some will go on courses, deployed, with other squadrons etc.

3. If needed those pilots will be called up an given a refresher course and readied for deployment.

4. I am yet to see any air force in sub Saharan Africa able to deploy more than 5 fighters not lead in trainers. sad that is but only one air force is capable of such.

Can we go back to the inferior Mi-24 design again?

Democratic South Africa has never used cowboy foreign policies or chest beating or being the front man. But rather always preferred to deal with things behind doors in the shadows. Where's Riak Machar today?

iblawi:
Oh! I didn't know. Please tell us what the other dedicated attack helicopters have done that the mi35/mi24 haven't achieved?

Writing long grammar won't prove you right.

The funny thing is you didn't consider why you needed 2-3 Rooivalk to escort UN food. A single MI35m would have done that with ease.

Flight characteristic, narrow fusalage( presenting a smaller target to the enemy) etc maybe? But why isn't that design being taken up by aircraft designers from South Africa to China?

Last on the escort thing. There are Mi-24s in the DRC under the same MONUSCO mission in 2013 they straffed M23 rebels threatening Goma. But the rebels captured the city and the helicopter attacks were stopped.

Both the Rooivalks and Hinds are tasked with escorting UN resources in hot areas. The UN requested the Rooivalks at the prospect of a high tempo fight.

Henry240:
Your question should be, why do the Russians still continue to field build and field more MI-35s? Why in a combat area like Syria the MI-35 continues to do most of the work despite the presence of the MI-28 and KA-52?

It was and still remains one of the cost cheapest attack helicopters in the world. Introducing new types comes with new doctrine, SOPs etc no short cuts there unless military contractors are brought in to fly them. Formulating those and testing takes time.

In urgent need of that capability rather stick to what you know instead of introducing new types. Similar if South Africa was threatened today by an enemy amassing fighters in a near by country the first decision will be to increase the Gripens and upgrading to the E model before acquiring another type say the Rafale. Holding the line until.......

The RPG-7 is the most used rocket propelled grenade today but is it the most effective? HE..LL NO!

iblawi:
Most successful Rooivalk mission in history.

Cameramen Airforce

It isn't about the Rooivalk but the design of attack helicopters which different companies are following accross the world from South Africa to China.

What we are seeing is they prefer following the Cobra attack helicopter design even the Russians. Then why should we believe that because the Nigerian air force flies the Mi -24 it is of superior design than what other better air forces prefer?

The Nigerian military experience in using helicopters is still isn't huge. Similar to fighter aircraft only started doing in the 2000s.

Not a an air force an attack helicopter design company can visit for an insight like South Africa did with Rhodesia during the design of the "Cat's eye". Revolutionizing air combat forever!!!!!

iblawi:
Dedicated attack helicopters are used to escort UN food in places like Congo while undedicated attack helicopters are used to send terrorist to their Graves in places like Iraq, Syria, Nigeria, Libya, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc.

The first kinetic strike of the first gulf war was by dedicated attack helicopters.

The effectiveness of such designs can't be judged. Regardless of rotors we are going to see me more designs still following the American-first dedicated attack helicopter without troop carrying capacity.

From China, India, South Africa and others in Europe attack helicopter designs grow from the Cobra attack helicopter branch. The Mi-24 one is dead only upgrades will be available.


Countries with well funded militaries and operating the Mi-24 have or are replacing it with attack choppers from the Cobra branch.

The rubbi...sh here is cause Nigeria flies the type. If your air force chaps flew some other design you'd still say it's of better design regardless of what well funded militaries with better procurement and testing facilities acquire.

jakeporeshenko:
slightly off topic: patches689 buddy look, some very undedicated iraqi army aviation hinds sending IS militants to an early grave

how undedicated of them.

Out of interest: Why do you think the Russians developed the Mi-28 unlike the Mi-24 without troop carrying capacity but similar to the Apache with a narrow fusalage?

nemesis2u:
interesting
and ur AF ever use it in war ?

Yup.

nemesis2u:
The Idiot’s Loop – Dropping A Nuke Upside Down

The US Air Force tactic known as ‘toss bombing’ or the ‘over-the-shoulder maneuver,’ is accomplished by flying towards the target at a lower altitude, pulling up to a sharp vertical plane and releasing the bomb just past vertical while executing a loop, essentially ‘throwing’ the bomb back toward the target compensating for the gravity effect on the bomb(s). This frightening tactic allowed the pilot time to put sufficient distance between his bomber and the target before the bombs exploded.

The first public demonstration of this maneuver was accomplished by a B-47 bomber at Eglin Air Force Base on May 7, 1957. The pilot released his payload into the air at a pre-determined point as the bomber executed a sharp half-loop.

As the bomb was released it continued on an upward path for some time before falling and hitting its target, which was a substantial distance from the bomb’s established release point.

Toss bombing or Vergooi in Afrikaans.

The aircraft dives below radar coverage after dropping the bomb. Funnily before the first Gulf war western air forces requested SAAF's attack profiles.

Algerian1:
dont know about this rumours ! algerian navy have the Super Lynx Mk-140 ASuW and ASW versions with the Mokopa missiles ! and rumors about getting AW159 Wildcat also for corvettes

maybe it have a link with the reports from aljazerra about israelian mossad buying stollen mokopa missile plans ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzRmI5PTxUw

Not really stolen.

Some Denel worker was trying make some cash and sold them to some Israeli company. Mossad returned them to SA.

nemesis2u:
there was a proposal years back to de horn the rhinos and replace them with artificial horns .

there was massive protest back home from animal right activists (actually desi and foreign aholes like PETA BBC etc )

wonder weather it would have stopped the killing of rhinos

i suspect the role of some animal right activists and media , they r in payroll of international syndicates

of special interest is the way BBC ran a story demonizing Indian forest guards for shooting down rhino poachers, if they dont kill the poachers the rhinos will be wiped out.

later they were banned from all indian forest reserves, but those bleepers got some international tour operators to boycott indian game reserves.

later ministry of external affairs had to warn British government of impeding economic sanctions over it plus some other reasons , which later forced BBC to back off.

i just dont get whats the problem with these fuccking western governments and their media , who appointed them as the judge to interfere with others.

most of the high value contraband goods r smuggled out in diplomatic pouches / luggage , but that is another story.

UN peace keeping forces r also guilty of trade in endangered animal parts in africa ,

much to my shame our files contain the name of a Indian general , but unlike other nations atleast that particular general will never be considered for any promotion, appointments etc back home due to compromised character . the list of nationality involved is long , i know of senior officers from pak***** , french , bangladeshi ,african forces etc etc .

but unfortunately or fortunately such info is good enough for dangling the sword to sniff out some secrets and maybe payback karma for the poor animals who died.

Poachers still cut the base of the horn of Dr horned Rhinos in South African parks. maybe the fact that they will get less money will discourage them risking their lives.

jln115:
@Henry240

At least the SANDF is contributing to anti poaching efforts!!

On the other hand your soldier are fvcking poachers!!

Pic1: don't even gut the worthog before putting it on the fire..... obviously no survival training!

Pic2: are you Chinese now eating Civets?

I don't know why they allow this to happen.

Henry240:
Yet a country in Africa hasn't managed to wing more than 9 pilots for a certain easy to fly 4th generation fighter since 1999.

Not all pilots are channelled into the fighter line.

If you cut standards you produce 50 pilots every six months.

patches689:
SANDF is in a sorry state.... by OUR standards.

By your standards, it would be a dream come true.


Pic related (think about it).

What people fail to under is that things will get worse or bad in stages.

The SANDF the army specifically if things get worse will regress to a Rhodesian light infantry(paratroopers, air assault infantry etc) type of army. Shedding it's mechanized infantry, armour and medium artillery capabilities.

No army in sub Saharan Africa maintains any standardized or battalion level upwards credible mechanized infantry.

jakeporeshenko:
Senegalese forces in some Gucci gear

Fancy!

patches689:
Sad?

How can you be sad for your betters?

It's an accepted fact that the SA defence industry which was protected by sanctions or the arms embargo and over charging the SADF will decline as many things can be sourced internationally cheaper instead of wasting funds in R & D or industrial espionage

But strategic capabilities like systems integration, electronic warfare, ammunition e.g AAMs, cruise missiles, PGMs etc, adapting equipment, C2, maintenance etc will or still maintained.

These things offer an edge over any African country or any potential foe within SADC and it's boarders.


Interestingly I wonder if we are gonna be paranoid like in the late 90s when one of our neighbours acquired some light tanks. When that neighbour acquires new front line fighters. Are we gonna feel like we need to balance or regain an edge?

picture related..

chkil0:
more pics

They will learn to invest in hangers.