₦airaland Forum

61mech:
I was referring to the fire support version of the Badger, not the IFV. The 30mm is more than adequate for a IFV. I'm especially pleased they stuck with a feed system that can be replenished one round at a time from inside the turret.
I would have preferred they went with the original 35mm emak as planned though. Why go for the current standard if you could leapfrog a generation.

The Emak 35 was also capable of upgrading to a 50mm supershot by just changing the barrel. The 35/50mm caliber is much deadlier than 30mm for AAA use. The US has even developed a beam riding guided 50mm round for it. Modern fire control makes IFV's as deadly in the AAA role as dedicated 1980's AAA.

As for fire support. We used the Ratel 90 for fire support even when the Rooikat was available. Remember the Rooikat's original mission was recon and probing actions. They would raid deep or into the flanks using their manoeuvrability. Think of it more of a cavalry vehicle like the US army uses in their armoured formations.
We did use them as fire support, but the KAT's speed is wasted if you pair it with a 6x6 Ratel. From operating nxt to them Heg/Steg i'd say the KAT was at least 2x faster.

Don't underestimate that 90mm. There are many a T-55/65 crew who did to their peril. The 90 could hit out to 2km and the low recoil meant you could stick it in a IFV platform and load a lot of rounds. Keep in mind that a technical with a ZU23 has nowhere near that range, because its such an unstable platform.
You're supposed to peg it to the ground when emplaced. You might get round 1 in the belt near me, but the nxt one is going to land in another country. On top of that it has to stop to fire and is un-armoured, so I just have to get close with my HE to perforate you.

For fire support you ideally need a vehicle that's built on the same platform as your IFV for logistics reasons and can be permanently attached to your mech infantry. Giving it the same gun is pointless as the whole idea of it is to take on targets like bunkers, buildings, walls etc. that the 30mm can't. Another thing most people don't consider is how much damage you can do to your own guys if you shoot 105/120mm close to your infantry. I have permanent hearing loss in my right ear from being too close to a olifant 105mm when it went off. They were supposed to use their horn before they fired. I came to with my face in the ground, a concussion,blown eardrum and unable to breath. Walked around like a zombie for 30mins.
Consider that when you shoot a gun like that , you are burning enough propellent to make pipe bomb that would absolutely flatten a big house. Now you are squeezing all that explosive energy through a hole not much more than 10cm across.
The 90mm was mounted much higher and you could hanearly ve guys nxt to it when it went of without it taking out half the section.

Was the EMAK-35 developed or based from the SPAAG'S 35mm guns. They produced muzzle velocity almost the same as the EMAK-30.

They also had the GAMA I wonder if the Rooivalk was the reason for it to be thrown into the freezer too. As there was no need to mount weapons on the A109 LUH to replace the Alloute gunships.

nemesis2u:
west is a nuisance
a very dangerous one at that

the north is the real headache , they r technologically 10-15 years ahead in most of the things.

india is investing in EW and targeting systems , they r in various stages on development.

i remember years ago they tested a EMP bomb,all that it manged to do is knock out the cell phones of the scientists and the visiting generals.

but recently i have reasons to believe they successfully test a EMP bomb , actually a EMP warhead fitted to a PGM.

plus hypothetically let me mention Indians r trying to get a DEW system in place to fry satellites.the system will be static or at best semi mobile. how successful they will be , that remains to be seen.

indian r fuuking lazy shiitholes (only the government ones)

and more often they try to eat more than they can chew

and if west and north decide to ass fucck india together, then provided if i were an indian i would move my ass pronto to SA , nigeria or kenya etc as quickly as possible.

Are they going to mount the K-9 turret on the Arjun chassis or they'll go with the Korean vehicle with local components?

nemesis2u:
send ur complains to merkel

and kiss her for me

i too wonder why they never entered the trials.

probably decided india will take 20 years to decide which one to buy, so not worth the wait.

that is why we must be optimistic even against the near impossible

It's internal politics though.

But Indian projects do drag on for decades.

I wonder if Denel I wasn't banned would they have offered their air breathing 155mm projectile design which promised to increase range of howitzers to 100km+.

nemesis2u:
copy paste

In November last year, the Indian government, after years in suspense, concluded a deal with the BAE Systems-Mahindra partnership to build M777 ultra-light guns in India. On Friday, another Indian private sector giant L&T formally entered into a partnership with South Korea’s Hanwha Techwin for India’s second big gun deal. The deal has already created its share of buzz for what is being seen as a record of sorts.

A partnership signing ceremony here today between L&T and South Korean Hanwha Techwin for executing the programme set the stage for the inking of the Rs 4,600 crore (710.86m USD) contract with the Ministry of Defence which is expected next week. The Cabinet Committee on Security has already approved this deal. The 155 mm, 52 calibre guns will be supplied by L&T, with Hanwha Techwin as the technology partner. All 100 guns will be supplied in under 42 months from the signing of the contract.

The deal envisages 50 per cent indigenous content. “(Of the 100 guns) 90 will be assembled in India. The first lot of 10 will be built in Korea with 80-to-90 per cent Korean content,” disclosed Hanwha Techwin CEO Shin Hyun-Woo at Friday’s signing ceremony with L&T. The final assembly of the first lot will be at L&T’s Strategic Systems Complex at Talegaon near Pune in Maharashtra. India’s largest private sector defence and aerospace company will produce and assemble the remaining 90 at a greenfield manufacturing line at Hazira in Gujarat which will also have a state-of-the-art test track and facilities to test and qualify the K9 VAJRA-T guns.

“We hope to deliver the first gun this financial year,” announced Jayant Patil, L&T’s head of Defence and Aerospace. His confidence stems from the “co-development” of a prototype for field trials within 18 months of the RFP being floated.This has set new deadline benchmarks for fielding a prototype with foreign assistance to meet Indian GSQRs, claimed Patil. “This programme shows the way forward. Two years is enough time to develop a weapon system,” he said. “There were 13 Indian systems in this prototype,” said Patil. The VAJRA-T is a variant of the highly successful K9 Thunder modified for Indian conditions. One thousand K9 Thunder guns have already been sold thus far.

Significantly, the most critical parts of the gun – the barrel and breach – will be imported. “It’s not viable to produce the barrels in India for an order of just 100 guns. We can make this happen in larger programmes like towed guns,” said Patil, claiming that a capability to produce nuclear-grade steel makes barrel production for artillery guns a distinct possibility for L&T.

The L&T-produced indigenous systems on the gun will include the fire control system, hull, turret, electronics, NBC systems, auto loaders, air conditioning and direct fire systems. The VAJRA-T was declared the sole qualified gun after user evaluation trials at Pokhran. The Russian competitor could not meet the requirements. Among the 13 Indian systems on the winning prototype was a fire control system to cater to a huge mix of Indian ammunition.

Let us hope India's possible opponents don't in the near future invest in extended range base bleed and base bleed and rocket motor projectiles, newer counter-battery radars and other targeting systems e.g UAVs and datalinks.

Cause the India might have to invest heavily in EW and targeting systems.


And Oh I'm mad the Pzh-2000 wasn't trailed.

61mech:
The 90mm had a canister round that was devastating against infantry.
You need a mix of 20-30mm and 76-90-105mm for a good fire belt shoot.
In my opinion the SANDF made a mistake in selecting the 30mm for the fire support Badger. They should have used the old 90mm with 2x igwe's in that turret. They are saying the 60mm can be elevated low for that job, but it doesn't always occupy the battlespace where that's needed.

For coin, you can't do much better than a Rooikat 76. Just enough firepower to get the job done and a big ammo loadout for long endurance missions to hunt down/outflank technicals that would struggle to outrun or outshoot it.

The armour guys need a light armour capability to replace the Ratel-90.

I always opposed putting or using Infantry combat vehicles as part of the light armour capability in the defence besides they have a larger silhouettes.

I hope they add advanced sensors on the fire support variant.

ActivateKruger:
AML-90s can't be useful in defending bases in these kinds of assaults. You need intense firepower like 20/30mm IFVs, you can use rapid fire 57mm like the one found on the Mbombe 8 to halt fast moving technicals (but most African countries don't use that gun).

Still under development.


I don't know with others but the 20/30mm guns will operate or fire single shots if necessary followed by 2-3 shot bursts. That's why the EMAK-30 has a single shot sniper mode.

jakeporeshenko:
Pair of J-20s flying in formation

Any organization trying to design fighter aircraft engines outside France, Russia, UK and the USA will have a tough time.

Archer truck mounted howitzer.

The gun it's self similar to the T5-52 is based on an earlier towed version(the FH77 L39). Ofcourse it's 155mm.

Able it reach ranges around 60km with certain rounds.

After the Pzh-2000 this one of the most good looking weapon system in service.

G5-45 towed version.

In it's self propelled mode it can reach speeds of around 4k/m and around 16k/m on roads.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzxMmuEGfYc&itct=CBYQpDAYACITCMH-irDhtNMCFQO-VQodaRgP6FIPRzUgaG93aXR6ZXIgQUFE&gl=ZA&hl=en&client=mv-google

Gentlemen let us dedicate page 155 to 155mm howitzers!


1. T-5 truck mounted howitzer!


It can be used like the WW2 German 88mm gun in it's direct fire mode.

Maximum range is 54km+ with Velocity Enhanced Artillery Projectile (VLAP) rounds. These type of rounds have been said to lack the effectiveness on target of conventional or normal HE rounds as the rocket motor and the base bleed unit take up space for the warhead.

But the HE PFF version of the round in the Assegai series negate that as it carries thousands of tungsten pellets.
The pellets increase the fragments of the rounds on target making the round's fragmentation more effective than normal HE rounds as proven in the G7 trials.

Fuzes again increase the effectiveness of the howitzer's rounds. After shelling some air field wasn't used for a while as shells were still going off hours after the shelling.

The towed version of the howitzer(45 calibre) disabled tanks in combat. Imagine a direct hit on a tank from this thing!!!!!!!!

andrewza:
209 is better than kilo cheaper than 214.

But the Egyptian have money in destroyer loads.

Doesn't the Kilo offer a greater land attack capability.

chkil0:
egyptian navy new type 209 submarine

I don't why they didn't go for the Russian Kilo class or the Type 214.

nemesis2u:
ok

He's lying.

ssaengine:
My friend 10 years is an utter and complete dream land for Nigeria. Where do you think "it's not rocket science" comes from....it's possibly the most challenging form of engineering.

SA launched rockets travelling over 1200km in the early 90's. Even if all drawings and technical data is removed from storage tomorrow, it would take at least 10 years to launch again. But anyways...that's not to say Nigeria musnt continue with whatever it has going.

Some were destroyed.

jakeporeshenko:
What's with the little dentures scattered all over the hull, they look like dimples... does this have anthing to do with quality of materials used ?

Indian metallurgy man it has to improve. Last I checked they had this other IFV/APC which looked like a worm.

nemesis2u:
http://pulse.ng/bi/politics/politics-the-8-most-elite-special-forces-in-the-world-id6540268.html

a big lolzzz

author is Mian Khursheed

why doesn't it surprise me that SSG made it to the list even at number 8 and german KSK Kommando Spezialkräfte was kept out to do so.

pretty damn convenient

lol the germans will eat them for breakfast

FYI, some 200 SSGs who were air dropped during indo-pak war were captured and killed by villagers armed with sticks , many had to be saved by the policeman. only 2 of them escaped back .

stupidity and propaganda is like water and alcohol, they mix well.

FYI ROC (Taiwan) Special Forces is an often overlooked SF they r capable of giving any SF a run for their money.

In reality there's no such thing as the "best or most elite".

As proven by some units deployed in Africa to find a certain warlord but are often schooled by the local forces.

Training differs and covers areas of possible(current and future) deployment.

Henry240:
On the trainer replacement, we don't have any clue what the NAF would/might go for. However in my opinion, the main contenders would be the L-15, L-139, M-346, MB-339CD, K-8 and FTC-2000. It is unlikely that we would go for a Russian or American trainer.

As for the price been rumoured, nobody can say for certain if the rumoured prices are fact. However, with all you listed, 600 million is still way too much.

NAF will never get the F-16. Besides that, if by some miracle that were to happen, the F-16s would be stripped off my important assets which would make it useless. With the JF-17, which is an excellent multi-role fighter, we can decide to add whatever ever systems we want. Alot more flexibility = more potency.

You know you'll get the export version of the JF-17?

Hrmnn:
That's an interesting photo of a FAPLA Hind.

According to one Soviet advisor's account during the Angolan war FAPLA preferred using Mi-17 Hips with unguided rockets in lieu of the Hind, despite the fact they weren't nearly as effective. The reason was because the Hinds were considered so valuable they were all stored on major air bases in central locations like Luanda. If they were needed for an op, they would fly in, do their thing, then fly back to their base.

This meant that district commanders never had regular and direct access to the Hinds, so of course they weren't utilised to the full extent of their capabilities. If they had, I have a feeling ops like Askari and Moduler would have been a hell of a lot more difficult. A squadron of Hinds in competent hands would've been easily capable of taking out a column of Ratels, especially given the shortage of man portable SAMs at the time, and disappear before anything like an Impala or a Mirage could be called in to counter them.

On the other hand, the Hinds were expensive and considered much more difficult to replace than a Hip, so given the inexperience of many FAPLA district commanders it's possible the senior Air Force commanders were unwilling to risk placing them in their hands. I do not agree with this logic but can understand the rationale.

It's also possible that by confining the Hinds to a few very well-protected bases the risk of sabotage and damage due to UNITA raids was mitigated.

Angolan Air Force Hinds:

Interestingly is that when an attack was imminent units on the ground would get "victory" messages.


Some of the artillery guys' air defence was provided(SAMs) by UNITA.

nemesis2uagain:
is it in operational use?

Yes!

nemesis2uagain:
yeah that would be something worth taking to combat , a shotgun firing HE rounds

combat shot guns will be good for CQB scenarios, really devastating

they had these 20mm programmable air burst rounds for the OICW personal weapon system (now cancelled) only the sounth koreans have a similar system in operational use. it is called K10 i think , not sure though.

Inkuzi! Though not programmable.

patches689:
Spider?

Look at the platform used to test the LEDS-150 system.

nemesis2uagain:
North Korean Pokpung-ho Tank

fuuking shiit !

that is some over the top add-ons i have never seen before in any tank

DUAL MANPADS on a mast fixed to turret

DUAL HEAVY MGs with shields

DUAL ATGMS fixed to turret

in addition to the MAIN TANK GUN

note : given the crazzzy load out , i am really dont know what to expect hidden inside the hull

MORTARS ?
TACTICAL MISSILES ?
DRONES ?

i give up

Pokpung-ho fortress!

Radar and Electronic Warfare demonstration



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCAGZKRPH2g&fulldescription=1&hl=en%E2%89%B7=ZA&client=mv-google

Hey @patches689 I know you have been looking for this baby for a while now only quote me if you were able to spot her! Might be your only chance. P.... t Ho........r

IbnSultaan:
Patches is here again Guy stop diz attitude of derailing

Your Henry is derailing.

slimthugchimee2:
Henry dont mind me asking but with dual capabilities for the MI-28 wont there be confusion btw the two pilots on controlling and the gunship, especially when both are in a tensed up situation?

He doesn't know what he is talking about.

Even the Rooivalk can be controlled by either the pilot or the WSO. The pilot can also utilized the weapons.

He is just pulling an augububu on us.

Henry240:
Including South-Africa.

The Apache, MI-28 and MI-35m are currently the most advanced Attack Helicopters in Africa.

I think the Algerian MI-28 with dual controls is the most advanced AH in Africa.

Define advance.

By dual control you mean?

tdayof:
Common. Helicopters perform better than each other it's a norm. However saying the MI-35 isn't a dedicated helicopter because it carries troops is wrong. Tell me one thing the Mi-28 will do and the mi-35 won't do. Armament etc.



I'm not helicopter person so I will love to hear nemesis2u opinion on this argument.


Let me it an intellectual argument please. We should avoid using insultive words. I know patches will Jump in soon.

Indians has Hinds but still why did she acquire the Apaches?

Helicopters like the Mi-28, Apache, Tiger etc are better in areas like Flight performance.

tdayof:
What's the mi-35 not a dedicated AH? because it can carry troops? Added advantage

I can't perform like the Mi-28, Apache etc.

Why do you think the Algerians are replacing their Super Hinds with Mi-28s?

tdayof:
What are you typing? Mi-17 should be the one you are talking about.

He's kind of right. The Nigerian military should start looking for dedicated attack helicopter like the Mi-28.

nemesis2uagain:
pic from Iranian Qaher F313 taxi trials.

as far as i can recall it is designed to be a subsonic light stealth aircraft.

interesting idea IMO.

anyways good luck to the Iranians.

It looks small.

nemesis2uagain:
from the pics it seems space is there, but will there be enough ground clearance ?

and man where did they hide the landing gear ? , cant spot it .

u remember the DUKE video , one of the reason why the Israelis opted for post flight airborne robotic weapon system deployment is becz of the issue of low ground clearance of helicopters (generally).

so after the heli gets airborne the system is designed to gets deployed thereby negating the said issue of ground clearance.

That's where the problem might be.

We'll have to see the ADM prototype if they'll make changes on the landing gear.

nemesis2uagain:
@MikeCZA

just out of curiosity, do u think Mwari will be able to sport a autocannon - turret combi of the type i proposed below its central fuselage ?

Picture: The area below the aircraft's fusalage(where the line scanner is located) can be removed.

A lot can be mounted there!

Size of the cannon might be the cunundrum