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 Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 12:45am On Oct 05, 2013 |
CraigB: Now there's an idîot statement if I ever saw one. Tons of stupid.However logical inference is applicable and can be deduced in this instance when observing that the presence of Whites around the globe correlates to the presence of world class infrastructure in any given area they inhabit while the absence thereof within the region of Subsaharan Africa that excludes them correlates to the absence of world class infrastructure. Come on Craig! |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 12:31am On Oct 05, 2013 |
paniki: LOL, wool over my head. hahahahahahahahaI cna laugh too. HAHAHAHAHAHA!  |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 12:30am On Oct 05, 2013 |
CraigB: OK - idîot. First of all, don't give me wiki. Give me an explanation.My bru, still enjoying your "afternoon" in South Africa eh? |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 12:28am On Oct 05, 2013 |
paniki: Good question. Are asking about Nigeria, Namibia or South Africa?Is that a trick question? |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 12:27am On Oct 05, 2013 |
paniki: LOL, you are a master at psychological projection. This is an illness.You really don't get Africa do you. Technically Nigeria's been rebuilding since 1999 post military. |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 12:25am On Oct 05, 2013 |
paniki: You amaze these days. Are you blind to the fact that the British built Nigeria but subsequently dilapidated by the natives? Don't hate on other nation that maintain and expand what they inherited.You keep using that word "inherited". How do you inherit something that technically you still don't own |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 12:08am On Oct 05, 2013 |
CraigB: How does "GMT" explain that it should be midnight where I am, Mophie-in-the-asś?I'll see you tommorrow then my Bru! |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 12:05am On Oct 05, 2013 |
^^^^ Ps which coutries are you speaking off. Botswana with 1.5 million people and the rest pretty much desert Namibia built by the germans... been to swakopmund my dear or is it mozambic, Zambia, Zim |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 12:03am On Oct 05, 2013 |
paniki: Watch out you risk offending many states in SADC. So much for your claimed travels in the mother continent, somebody from Angola needs to join this thread and school you on how Africans in the south empower themselves.You mean in Angola where the govt built all those urban houses that pretty much are empty and no-one can afford or the Angola that pretty much has no industry and imports practically everything into the country. Now Paniki, you've beenon skyscraper cities for a while, you and I know Abuja Nigeria is comparable to cities in Angola. |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 12:01am On Oct 05, 2013 |
CraigB: Whites in Naai-geria since independence.Pseudo African state with largest whitesettler population in Africa.........world class infrastructure Other real African states without large white population...............no world class infrastructure Therefore Where would south Africa be without white people. No where. Just another African state. OTHERWISE SHOW ME ANOTHER SUBSAHARAN COUNTRY WITH THE SAME INFRASTRUCTURE! Morpheus says " it is not the spoon that bends, it is only your mind" |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 11:58pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
CraigB: How does "GMT" explain that it should be midnight where I am, Mophie-in-the-asś?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwich_mean_time LINK!!! explains why it can't be afternoon in South Africa, the beloved land you "live" in |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 11:53pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
CraigB: Based on?GMT |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 11:52pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
CraigB: Evidence. Not empty talk. What have you built since the white people left?Cause....... White settlers in South Africa Effect......World class Infrastructure. No amount of running around that is gonna change that. Unless ofcourse you can export those 3-5 million "whiteys" n lets see how they fair? Morpheus says "stop trying to hit me and hit me" |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 11:49pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
CraigB: Of course it doesn't. You don't have any.Afternoon. Craig its supposed to be like midnight where you at |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 11:33pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
CraigB: The thread says "photos". You couldn't post photos if you tried. You don't have any.Missing the point aren't we craig. boy you are a numskull aren't u? logic: Pseudo African state with largest whitesettler population in Africa.........world class infrastructure Other real African states without large white population...............no world class infrastructure Therefore Where would south Africa be without white people. No where. Just another African state. No amount of pics will defeat that point cause you can't argue otherwise unless ofcourse you can transport those 3-5 millions "whiteys" outta there. Posting pics dont amuse me, sorry?? Morpheus says " let me show how deep the rabbit hole goes" |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 11:16pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
CraigB: He knows he hasn't. He's actually running away.Ahh Craig me run away, you obviously don't know Morpheus I see picture spamming is your forte. Still doesn't change facts though. I could post a bunch of Nigerians kicking it at club in lagos or at a wedding on Bella naija but then again those picture distractions are what they are mere distractions. Point still remains. South African is a pseudo- African state run by A white Elite. They are still there n they aint going no where no matter how many pics you post. They control the economy and will continue to control it for a very long time which is why SA can never be a true African state. The facts about my country will not change that. Where would South Africa be without white people?. Another African state! |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 11:11pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
zetzar: You've added nothing new to the thread mehn, you somewhat think that you've hit a slam dunk, hopefully tomorrow u will be will to discuss naai-geria.Of course I have . i am simply reiterating the point of the thread. Don't be mad About slam dunks, I know I am tall enought to hit one, are you? |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 9:16pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
CraigB: Point it out and then tell us what it is that's wrong with BEE.Oh yeah one last thing before I run, You know how I know you are a "pale face" in disguise. You never use the phrase "you must" its a dead give away. |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 9:10pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
I am off for a jog on the slum streets of naija......no Whitey in sight.... ahhhhhh how serene, will be back tomorrow though craig  |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 9:09pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
When the curtain finally came down on South Africa’s apartheid in 1994, it happened in a way that none of the key players had predicted. Both the African National Congress (ANC) and its opponents in the white supremacist National Party were surprised that they could reach an accommodation through dialogue and negotiation rather than armed force. In the negotiations that had followed the release of Nelson Mandela and unbanning of the ANC, the parties sealed an unspoken deal. This handed political power to the black majority and left economic power in the hands of whites. There was to be no seizure of white assets, although there were, of course, plans to gradually achieve a more equitable balance of wealth. Black economic empowerment? Indeed, there were already plans afoot to bring the leadership of the ANC into the fold. White business magnates had begun to transfer assets into black hands in order to incorporate those at the top of the new political order. The new policy was ‘Black Economic Empowerment’ (BEE). As the commentator Moeletsi Mbeki put it: “BEE was, in fact, invented by South Africa’s economic oligarchs, that handful of white businessmen and their families who control the commanding heights of the country’s economy, that is mining and its associated chemical and engineering industries and finance”. He pointed out that the policy was adopted well before the ANC came to power. In 1992, Sanlam Limited, a cornerstone of Afrikaner capital, helped create the flagship black empowerment company New African Investments Limited – led by Nthato Motlana, Nelson Mandela’s former doctor. Further deals followed and soon the new BEE elite were well-entrenched. On the face of it, the policy was a success. A more equitable sharing out of the spoils of economic development came about, creating a new black bourgeoisie. At the same time the ANC abandoned its more radical economic policies allowing rich whites to continue enjoying a very pleasant lifestyle. A considerable proportion of South African assets were transferred to the BEE elite, but even at their height, these transfers were smaller than they appeared. As my colleague Paul Holden points out, the total value of BEE deals were around R250 billion ($30 billion), still a drop in the ocean when compared with the total value of private sector resources of R6 trillion ($700 billion). Worse still, the BEE transfers were loans, not gifts. The companies had to earn profits and from these profits the loans would be repaid. That was at least the theory. In reality, many of the new black elite had little or no experience of business and a good number of the BEE companies were soon in difficulties. As the government’s own assessment of the problems of BEE rightly put it, this led to contracts being signed by people who lacked the necessary capital: “This has encouraged debt-driven deals that are likely to work only when the economy is growing rapidly and company profitability is expanding significantly”. Soon the new elite were scrambling around to find a way out. They hit on a plan to nationalise the mines. This would transfer a sizeable chunk of their problems onto the shoulders of the state, which could buy them out at favourable rates. At this point they hit a stumbling block. The ANC’s left-wing allies, the unions of COSATU and the South African Communist Party opposed this solution. The Communist Party openly attacked those who called for nationalisation. The party declared that it had warned against the use of state finances to bail out the new rich and came out strongly against “diverting billions of Rands of public funds to serve the interests of a narrow black (and white) capitalist stratum”. Nor was it just a question of “bailing-out debt-ridden BEE capital”, according to the party. They reported that mine union officials had been quietly approached by members of the new black elite, asking for their support. They were told, “Why don’t you support the nationalisation of the mines? If government takes over the mines they will turn to us to run them.” The Communist Party accused the right in the ANC of being seduced by the emerging black capitalist class. White business While black business is in a relatively precarious position, their white contemporaries have worked hard to secure their privilege. For a start, they have kept their heads down and operated behind the scenes. Business South Africa, which whites controlled, merged with the Black Business Council in October 2003 to form Business Unity South Africa. Not all black businesses appreciated the change, and some broke away from the new body in 2009. Nonetheless, the white business community had found a convenient new home for their interests. From here they could lobby the ANC government. Some in white business went further, joining the ANC’s Progressive Business Forum. Its stated purpose is to open direct links with the ruling party. Within a year of its formation, the forum was being portrayed in the press as a means of “buying face-time with cabinet ministers and senior government officials”. The ANC responded briskly that there was “nothing untoward about this”. Today it is clear that the Progressive Business Forum is a potent means of raising money for the party. A seat at President Zuma’s table at a banquet held in Johannesburg in June 2012 was going for no less than R500,000 ($60,000). This is not the only way the ANC has raised money from business. An investigation in 2006 by the Institute of Security Studies revealed the existence of a group of companies controlled by a firm called Chancellor House, which quietly accumulated stakes in minerals, energy, engineering, logistics and information technology. This has been a major source of funding for the ruling party and has resulted in inevitable conflicts of interest. “More often than not, these business opportunities have been dependent on the government’s discretion – the award of state tenders, mineral rights and the like. The ANC, as ruling party, has been both player and referee”, says the report. “As it has always been” Nearly two decades after the ANC came to power, the black middle class is both powerful – through its influential role in the ANC – but also dependent on the party for its position. It is insufficiently well-resourced to stand on its own feet and reliant on state contracts and BEE legislation for its positions. The white elite, on the other hand, are better endowed and better resourced. Some have moved to become consultants rather than hold formal positions in companies. Others have moved some or all of their wealth offshore – treading the trail blazed by companies formerly listed in South Africa like Old Mutual and Anglo-American, which are now listed on the London stock exchange. At the same time, white business has learnt to live with the ANC in government, working behind the scenes rather than raising their voices in public. President Zuma summed up the situation rather astutely when he addressed ANC’s policy conference on June 26, 2012. Much had been achieved since taking power in 1994, he said, but much still had to be done. The president went on to outline the key issues that had to be tackled – among them were economic relations, which, he said, were still largely unchanged. When the end of apartheid came, he said, “We had to be cautious about restructuring the economy in order to maintain economic stability and confidence at the time. Thus, the economic power relations of the apartheid era have in the main remained intact. The ownership of the economy is still primarily in the hands of white males as it has always been.” Further reading: Think Africa Press' review of "Who Rules South Africa?" and interview with the authors Martin Plaut and Paul Holden. Think Africa Press welcomes inquiries regarding the republication of its articles. If you would like to republish this or any other article for re-print, syndication or educational purposes, please contact: editor@thinkafricapress.com http://thinkafricapress.com/south-africa/white-elite-dog-doesnt-bark-bee-who-rules-south-africa. There really is "no point" trying to drive this point home, even the Sa's know this |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 9:02pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
CraigB: Refresher - where would Naai-geria be without white people? They left you a country after independence.(Reuters) - South Africa's economy is still mostly under the control of whites who held power under apartheid and the government needs to take more drastic steps to make sure the black majority can benefit from its wealth, President Jacob Zuma said on Tuesday. Zuma, speaking at the start of a major policy meeting of his ruling African National Congress, said the challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality posed long-term risks for Africa's richest country 18 years after the end of apartheid. "The structure of the apartheid-era economy has remained largely intact," Zuma told several thousand ANC delegates. "The ownership of the economy is still primarily in the hands of white males as it has always been," he said. The ANC has drafted a raft of policy documents that call on mining firms to pay more to the state to help finance welfare spending. The proposals also advocate relying on state-owned enterprises to be engines of job creation and growth. "The time has come to do something more drastic towards economic transformation and freedom," Zuma said. But some economists have warned it would be dangerous to rely on state-owned firms since almost all of them have been mired in debt and management problems. Zuma also said the debate over how the country's mining wealth should be shared should go beyond simply the question of "to nationalize or not to nationalize." The party produced a research paper earlier this year saying nationalizing mines could bankrupt the state, but it suggested increasing taxes on windfall mining profits. Zuma said the conference should consider how the state can obtain an "equitable share" of mineral wealth, which could be used more to benefit poor communities. He also called for a new programme for land reform, saying the current "willing buyer-willing seller" policy had been too slow in returning white-owned farmland to blacks dispossessed by the apartheid state. But he did not spell out what alternative mechanisms of land ownership transfer should be adopted. South Africa's black economic empowerment policy designed to give disenfranchised blacks greater ownership of the economy should be strengthened, Zuma added. This policy has been criticized from within the ANC and by its governing allies in organized labor as only benefiting a small sliver of the population with political ties to the party that has ruled since apartheid ended in 1994. The policy conference will end on Friday and its deliberations are being held behind closed doors. (Reporting by Jon Herskovitz and Peroshni Govender; Editing by Pascal Fletcher) http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/26/us-safrica-zuma-idUSBRE85P0EE20120626 Ahhhh , stop pating yourself on the back that quick,there's plenty of evidence out that undermines the BEE trickery of those chats |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 8:41pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
CraigB: There's no point to defend.Refresher..... Where would South Africa be without White people? Point.....No where cause "whitey" still owns everything. You want me to translate to Afrikaans for you? |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 8:30pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
CraigB: One moment, you celebrate FID. The next, you call it an "invasion"?Thats your usual response when you can't defend the point. Light bulb moment! |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 8:24pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
CraigB: Yes - it's money for jam. Open season for anyone. Foreigners freely come into Naai-geria to exploit the economy. Even South Africa's been accused of same. Even their own government is complicit in the abuse of the own people. Why would businesses stay away from a place where the government is derelict in its duties?HAHAHAHA! You must be missing the chinese invasion in your country. Where's the protection for your industries from your government. OH yeah, its Toyi Toyi season this summer. |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 8:20pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
CraigB: The fact remains that you've abandoned your argument.The graph simply shows the "tender- onies" movement up the purchasing power ladder. A pacification by the real "powers that be" who sign deals with ex prisoners and thugs so they can get their hands on the real economy. Please! |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 8:03pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
CraigB: You have no point. The point is in 60 years, you've built nothing. You should be investing in other countries by now (like South Africa is) - and not celebrating FID. FID is no measure of health. Given the size of your population, they's always be consumers, even naai-geria were to split.And the point still remains, in the last 19 years the native Africans still controll less than 10% of the economy while the settlers continue to control the vast majority of it therefore they control the politics of the country thats why your silly minister apologized to Nigeria when they were going to retaliate on MTN n the 'whiteys' that flock Nigeria to make their money. If you want me to break it down to you like a six year old, the natives are still subjects and did not inherit any of that infrastructure, they are only renting it. |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: foreigners chillout joint. by morpheus24: 7:43pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
The way things are going on this thread. Please no southie/Naija babies. I think we have enough of them already. |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 7:34pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
zetzar: ^^^^^ Lol, when have they ever stopped leeching?I guess those investors must be real air headed running into an economy that is about to collapse. Short term thinkers, don't you think. |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 7:25pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
paniki: Correction. Whitey aready leeched you, then left, and now is back for seconds. You peeps like being abused.They stayed behind in your case n still control 90% of your economy. Now thats perpertual abuse man. |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 5:41pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
paniki: Waiting for whitey to feed me is way better than waiting for whitey to leech all he can from me and my country. I have told you this before: Nigeria's puppet masters such as South Africa are the ones who benefit the most from you people.Correction. Whitey already leeched you. Now he's giving you handouts to pacify you in the hopes that you think you will control that economy someday. MTN has weezled its way into Nigeria today because they know the money and potential is there, but woah to the investor that comes into naija, They are in for something else. They really believe they are going to setup shop, steal economic power tand in the future influence the political structure. They got another thing coming bro. UNA NEVER KNOW NAIJA!! Tell them to keep bringing the DOLLARS/RANDS into the country, we are waiting! |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 5:18pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
paniki: hahahahaMuch better than toyi toying all day just to find an excuse not to work and get RDP entitlement packages with free solar panels on their roofs. STILL WAITING FOR WHITEY TO FEED YOU! |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Where Would South Africa Be Without White People? by morpheus24: 4:36pm On Oct 04, 2013 |
@ Craig oooh Craig , we are so behind SA, these investores are scrambling to get into our economy. Meanwhile COSATU is toi toing them investors out of SA. men! [flash=400, 400] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06EEWbwiGYo[/flash] |
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