Ask a Christian a question about Jesus, and he might answer you with a quotation from Paul. But who tells us Paul speaks for Jesus? Why do we need Paul to speak for Jesus when Jesus speaks for himself? Why do we need Paul to speak for Jesus when Jesus himself warns us: “Be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time?” (Mark 13:23). If Jesus has told us all we need to know, why do we need someone else to add to, or subtract from, what he said? What was Jesus divine message according to the synoptic gospel?

How did Paul's teachings differ from Jesus?
Jesus teaches the works (not grace) that make for our salvation in the Beatitudes (Matt 5,5&7, Lk 6:20-49) and most elaborately in Matt 25:31-46 but Paul preached that salvation is by grace (unmerited gift) in Ep 2:8-9, a concept that Jesus never mentioned or even implied

Paul Contradicts Jesus in so many ways as listed below;

On how one becomes a child of God:

Paul says:
Rom.8
[23] and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Gal.4
[5] to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

Jesus says:
John.3
[3] Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is begotten from above,* he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is begotten of the flesh is flesh, and that which is begotten of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Do not marvel that I said to you, `You must be begotten from above.*

* John 3:3 and 3:7 are the author's translations. These differ from the RSV only in the expression "begotten from above" that replaces "born anew' in the RSV. "Born anew" does not represent the fullness of what Jesus is stating here, and does not correspond to the literal translation of the Greek, anothen (a()nwqen).

On the number and identity of teachers:

Paul says:
1Cor.12
[28] And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third, teachers,
Eph.4
[11] And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
1Tim.2
[7] For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
2Tim.1
[11] For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher,


Jesus says:
Matt.23
[8] But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren.



On being justified:

Paul says:
Rom.3
[24] they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,
[28] For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law.
Rom.5
[9] Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.


Jesus says:
Matt.12
[37] for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.


On sacrifices to God:

Paul says:
1Cor.5
[7] For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed.
Eph.5
[2] And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

Jesus says:
Matt.9
[13] Go and learn what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.'


On remuneration for preaching the gospel:

Paul says:
1Tim.5
[17] Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching;
[18] for the scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages.
1Cor.9
[11] If we have sown spiritual good among you, is it too much if we reap your material benefits?
[12] If others share this rightful claim upon you, do not we still more?


Jesus says:
Matt.10
[7] And preach as you go, saying, `The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
[8] Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying, give without pay.




On the God of the dead:

Paul says:
Rom.14
[9] For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Jesus says:
Luke.20
[38] Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living;


On the time of the coming of the Lord:

Paul says:
Rom.13
[12] the night is far gone, the day is at hand.


Jesus says:
Luke.21
[8] Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name,
saying, . . . `The time is at hand!' Do not go after them.




Christians are indoctrinated, that the Good news means the whole new testaments, despite Paul didn’t preach the good news of the kingdom gospel, but the Grace of God gospel.
Christians are indoctrinated, that everything in the bible is from God, nothing else but truth , despite God said, Job friends spoke falsely about God.

Christians are trained to accept everything in the bible , doubting and questioning the validity of the teaching are considered heresy , Those whom dare to ask will be subjected to modern persecutions such as excommunicated, shunned, demoted, kick out from church ministries.
Church have no basic concept of truth and subsequently don’t know how to verify the truth, believing in contradictions is norm just like the ones mentioned above, for example: Christians believe it is impossible to be righteous, but at the same time also believe that Noah and Jobs are righteous persons.
Church encourage people to read the bible, but don’t have idea on how it should be read and learned, manipulated interpretations to fit man's made doctrines, Paul letters could contradict Jesus words

Main stream churches foundation mostly based on Paul teaching, criticizing Paul means criticizing the church, everybody get offended, they will perceive it as an attempt to destroy the church. Not realizing that God's truth can't be build upon false foundation. when you have actually come to the point of discerning the bible truth regardless of whether you believe that Paul teaches the same as Jesus, it is to me pretty clear if you compare them side by side. As listed and mentioned above.
And when you lay Paul and Jesus teaching side by side, It is definitely like comparing synthetic grass over real grass, we the non-Christians know synthetic grass is different than real grass, but a Christian would blindly agree that synthetic or real grass are still grass and so is the pauline-doctrines to Jesus true and divine message.

MightySparrow:


Good.
Anti + Christian
Against + Christians = opposing anything Christianity


Al + Lah
ال +لله
The + God.


Which Lah?

The Arabic Allah has three daughters!

Now, I know you bible people know nothing about pre-islamic arabs.
you are talking about the ilah, hubal. In Arabian mythology, Hubal (Arabic: هُبَل) was a god worshipped in pre-Islamic Arabia, notably by the Quraysh at the Kaaba in Mecca. The god's idol was a human figure believed to control acts of divination, which was performed by tossing arrows before the statue.
"Religion in pre-Islamic Arabia was a mix of polytheism,
Christianity, Judaism, and Iranian religions.
pre-islamic arab polytheism, the dominant belief system, was based on the belief in deities
and other supernatural beings such as djinn.
Gods and goddesses were worshipped at local shrines, such as the Kaaba in Mecca."

The idol's devotees fought against followers of the Islamic prophet Muhammad(pbuh) during the Battle of Badr in 624 AD. After Muhammad (pbuh) entered Mecca in 630, he destroyed the statue of Hubal from the Kaaba along with the idols of all the other pagan gods.

go and read more to know much more better

a religious following founded on lies and just like that; a bright shinning light struck Paul down with madness and confusion that made him knew no other place to turn to but headed to Arabia' to do what exactly? part 2 of this thread below is on the way soon as i would love to know you bible people thoughts on it.
https://www.nairaland.com/7522633/pour-out-spirit-series-part1

MaxInDHouse:
You quoted verses out of context instead of asking questions to know what you missed.
Paul was led to the Apostles after he met Jesus {Act 9:27} and several times when issues arises himself and Barnabas went to the apostles in Jerusalem! Act 15:2

So Paul was narrating another event which he doesn't feel the need to go to the apostles!

how did i quote out of context when i was clearly stating and referring to what the Op posted to be the subject of the whole discussions here...and you making mentions with this; "Just like all misinformed churchgoers you were never one of Jesus' disciples (Christians)"
So I drew your attention and summed up my own reasons for leaving a (Paul the Apostle) brain-washer's faith of outright confusion.

MaxInDHouse:
Just like all misinformed churchgoers you were never one of Jesus' disciples (Christians)

And so was Paul the Apostle who also never one of the 12 Jesus disciples...what kind spirit chased him to arabia? upon his alleged encounter of the morning star. Why didn't he show himself to the disciples before him in Jerusalem? What was Paul doing in Arabia for 3yrs after his alleged encounter with the morning star?(See. Job 38:7, Revelation 22:16)
https://www.nairaland.com/7522633/pour-out-spirit-series-part1

And still, there are so many cross-referenced biblical verses that expose how Paul contradicts Jesus. Being a former Judaism-scholar he was, boastfully tongue-twisting Jesus true and divine message... And i can still see till today every churchy people carrying the same boastfulness of Paul the Apostle, thinking they have cracked the divine message from God Almighty. Don't give me Paul's ( a former bounty-hunter, executioner) own version of the gospel oooh.... I won't accept it...And stop! Worshiping Jesus as God! for God Almighty cannot stoop so low to be borne out of a woman's farjaha nor to beget anyone. See Sura 112:3-4, He begetteth not, nor is he begotten.
And there is none like unto Him. Jesus was a mere Prophet (see matt.12:18-20) whose miraculous birth was nothing but a sign unto all men...God's prophets are also referred to as servants. And it's pretty remarkable that the servant is being called while still in his mother's womb in this Isaiah passage: God calls servants and prophets even before they are born!

And he said, “This is what your Lord said: ‘It is easy for me.
We shall make him a sign to all people, a blessing from us.’”
And so it was ordained. She conceived him. (Quran 19:16-22)

On how one becomes a child of God:

Paul says:
Rom.8
[23] and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Gal.4
[5] to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

Jesus says:
John.3
[3] Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is begotten from above,* he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is begotten of the flesh is flesh, and that which is begotten of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Do not marvel that I said to you, `You must be begotten from above.*

* John 3:3 and 3:7 are the author's translations. These differ from the RSV only in the expression "begotten from above" that replaces "born anew' in the RSV. "Born anew" does not represent the fullness of what Jesus is stating here, and does not correspond to the literal translation of the Greek, anothen (a()nwqen).

On the number and identity of teachers:

Paul says:
1Cor.12
[28] And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third, teachers,
Eph.4
[11] And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,
1Tim.2
[7] For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
2Tim.1
[11] For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher,


Jesus says:
Matt.23
[8] But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren.



On being justified:

Paul says:
Rom.3
[24] they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,
[28] For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law.
Rom.5
[9] Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.


Jesus says:
Matt.12
[37] for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.


On the God of the dead:

Paul says:
Rom.14
[9] For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Jesus says:
Luke.20
[38] Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living;


On the time of the coming of the Lord:

Paul says:
Rom.13
[12] the night is far gone, the day is at hand.


Jesus says:
Luke.21
[8] Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name,
saying, . . . `The time is at hand!' Do not go after them.

TenQ:

1. How do you think I will fee in paradise knowing that I could have explained the plan of God's salvation to you so that you'll be saved?
2. How do you think you will feel about me who knows the truth but didn't warn you Muslims enough about it?


Either way, it is not good. Mr Lukman, God loves you and desires to save you. Jesus said: humanity prefer darkness to light.

I can explain the plan of salvation of God through the Bible, except for chanting La illa ila lah, can you explain the plan of salvation in the Qur'an?

[s]The purpose of Satan is to deceive mankind with truth mixed with poison and unfortunately, Lukman you are already in the hands of the best of the Deceivers.[/s]

why are you saying someone is in the best of the Deceivers when your scripture already made some similar references to that.... If I had never practiced Christianity since from the tender age of 9 and all the way to my early 30s before reverting back to Islam. After exploring some deeper truths, biblical lies and with a great deal of indept thinking in my heart....you people with all your confusion-mixed doctrines, numerous Christian denominations... and constracting belief systems within the same "alleged" body of Christ. Are pouring gasoline on people spiritual ignorance and go about with raised shoulders filled with the boosted pride of Paul the apostle, the one whose confusion and madden beliefs upon encountering some inexplicable light for all we knew it could be the morning star? he had no where to turn to but happened to go to arabia first before coming back some 3yrs later and started inspiring gigantic lies.

2 Kings 19:10
“Thus you shall say to Hezekiah king of Judah, ‘Do not let your God in whom you trust deceive you saying, “Jerusalem will not be given into the hand of the king of Assyria.”


Isaiah 37:10
“Thus you shall say to Hezekiah king of Judah, ‘Do not let your God in whom you trust deceive you, saying, “Jerusalem will not be given into the hand of the king of Assyria.”

Jeremiah 20:7
O Lord, You have deceived me and I was deceived;
You have overcome me and prevailed.
I have become a laughingstock all day long;
Everyone mocks me.

Jeremiah 4:10
Then I said, “Ah, Lord God! Surely You have utterly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, ‘You will have peace’; whereas a sword touches the throat.”

Ezekiel 14:9
“But if the prophet is prevailed upon to speak a word, it is I, the Lord, who have prevailed upon that prophet, and I will stretch out My hand against him and destroy him from among My people Israel.


2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false.

Jobs 13:7
“Will you speak what is unjust for God,
And speak what is deceitful for Him?

1 Kings 22:22-23
The Lord said to him, ‘How?’ And he said, ‘I will go out and
be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’
Then He said, ‘You are to entice him and also prevail.
Go and do so. Now therefore, behold,
the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets;
and the Lord has proclaimed disaster against you.”

ALL THESE VERSES MENTIONED ABOVE ARE FOUND IN THE BIBLE YOU CARRY TO CHURCH OR MEETINGS...SETTLE YOUR HOUSE FIRST.

in your next Sunday sermon or Sunday school class, let your holy spirit guide you so that you can preach about Arabia and apostle Paul's sabbatical in Arabia....don't just go to church and pretend the word :Arabia does not have objective reality....if Paul could go seek some higher power that landed him in Arabia during his time before the start of his Christianity journey...
my question is what makes you Christians think there is no existence of one powerful and true God in Arabia,
apostle Paul had to spend 3yrs in Arabia to perhaps, prepare himself and seek divine guidance while on the mountain of God in Arabia...
Ain't you all convinced that there is only one and true Almighty God who was already shifting his central focus by calling Paul to Arabia... But eventually, Paul spread the wrong message being a ex-Judaism, he (Paul) metamorphosed an ideological belief system into which Judaism of his time referred to as "pagan-Christianity"! And so did everything wrongly and thus a divine path is shown to prophet muhammed (pbuh) who started to preach what God had revealed to him. The simple and clear-cut message of Islam, that there is no god but Allah, and that life should be lived in complete submission to the will of the Almighty God.

[9-10] Say to them, "I am not a novel Messenger, I do not know what shall befall you tomorrow nor what shall befall me. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am no more than a warner."12 O Prophet, say to them, "Have you ever considered that if this (Qur'an) were really from Allah, and yet you denied it, (what would be your end)?13 And a witness from among the children of Israel has already borne witness to the like of it; he believed while you showed arrogance.14 Allah does not show guidance to such wrongdoers."

All perfect praise be to Allah, The Lord of the Worlds.
I testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allah, and
that Muhammad sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam
( may Allah exalt his mention ) is His slave and Messenger.


Firstly, let’s establish some skeletal back stories as regards to what the Bible knew about the Arabia?
Oh no! You are surprised I mentioned Arabia! Oh! Yes – it is as old as many of the Old Testament stories recorded in the Christian Bible too. I can’t go through all the verses in which Arabia was mentioned in about 17 passages from 8 books of the Christian bible. May it delight you to know that one of the more tantalizing aspects of Paul's early ministry is his “three years in Arabia.” In Galatians 1:17
but what can we know about Paul’s life after the Damascus Road experience?

Well, according to the Christian Bible, Arabia in as much today’s Christians would love to dismiss in blindfold any biblical sermon or teaching that got to do with anything “Arabia-attached bible passage or verse” as mentioned and found in both the Old and New Testament.
My brothers and sisters, I present to you a main evidence in line with other evidences see pics attached below – that the Arabia as mentioned on these verses below; did not only bears a defining characteristic of a place of abundant wealth among whom were traders, merchants, nomads

(see 2 Chronicles 17:11), “Some of the Philistines brought Jehoshaphat presents, and silver for tribute; the Arabians also brought him flocks, seven thousand and seven hundred rams, and seven thousand and seven hundred male goats.”
(see 2 Chronicles 9:14) “besides that which the traders and merchants brought: and all the kings of Arabia and the governors of the country brought gold and silver to Solomon”, but also denotes a place of wilderness more like a desert; a tract of land or region uncultivated and uninhabited by human beings, whether a forest or a wide barren plain.

(see Jeremiah 25:24), “and all the kings of Arabia, and all the kings of the mixed people who dwell in the wilderness;”

Jeremiah 3:2 "Lift up your eyes to the bare heights, and see! Where have you not been lain with? You have sat for them by the ways, as an Arabian in the wilderness. …. ….”

Isaiah 21:13, “the burden on Arabia. In the forest in Arabia you will lodge, you caravans of Dedanites.”

There are a few types of wilderness mentioned in the Bible. It can mean a land without water, a wasteland, or an area of wild fields where animals graze, a place of isolation or separation i.e. mount Sinai etc.
.
(Isaiah 13:20) “It will never be inhabited; neither will it be lived in from generation to generation.
The Arabian will not pitch a tent there; neither will shepherds make their flocks lie down there.”

You can as well check other verses referencing Arabia like; (2 Chronicles 21:16, 22:1, 26:7)
(Judith 2:25), (Nehemiah 2:19, 4:7, 6:1)

Arabia is associated with Kedar. Kedar is called "men of the east" (see Jeremiah 49:28).

Kedar was the son of Ishmael, who intermarried with the Midianites and lived south east of the Dead Sea. "These are their genealogies: the firstborn of Ishmael was Nebaioth, then Kedar" (see 1 Chronicles 1:29).

(See Ezekiel 27:21) “Arabia, and all the princes of Kedar, they were the merchants of your hand;
in lambs, and rams, and goats, in these were they your merchants.”
all the princes and kings of Arabia sent out gifts in the form of gold and silver to King Solomon in the faraway lands

In describing the swath of land from Babylon (Hazor) to Saudi Arabia (Kedar) Jeremiah 49:28 tells Hazor (Babylon) to invade Kedar (Saudi Arabia) calling them "men of the east".
"Concerning Kedar and the kingdoms of Hazor, which Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon defeated.
Thus says the Lord, "Arise, go up to Kedar And devastate the men of the east. " Jeremiah 49:28

Therefore Arabia = Ishmaelites, Midianites, Kedarites, Wildernesses of Shur and Paran, Midian

And as you all can attest to the fact that Paul the Apostle was not one of the original 12 Apostles of Jesus, but he was one of the most prolific contributors to the New Testament. Of the 27 books in the New Testament, 13 or 14 are traditionally attributed to Paul, though only 7 of these Pauline epistles are accepted as being entirely authentic.
Now, how did Paul got his revelation or vision or call it whatever you like? Your Bible says;

“as he neared Damascus (present day Syria) on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him.
He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

And for next three years of Paul’s new found Christian life after his alleged divine encounter as no any persons or a physical witness was present or could account for it like most revelations from above. Your dearest and beloved Paul did not show himself to the other apostles or followers of Christ in Jerusalem yet.

(See Galatians 1:11-20) as an excerpt from it reads;
“ I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age
among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. But when God,
who set me apart from my mother’s womb… ….so that I might preach him among the Gentiles,
my immediate response was not to consult any human being. I did not
go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went into Arabia. ”.
What was Paul doing in Arabia?

According to Gal 1:17,
Shortly after his conversion Paul went away to Arabia. Scholars have puzzled over this, as it seems an odd choice. So at least three interrelated questions arise:

1) Where exactly does Paul refer to by Arabia?
2) Why did Paul choose to go there?
3) What exactly was Paul doing while there?

Let breaks this a little, The Apostle Paul does not explain why. No mention is made of his preaching there. If we were to speculate, it would be that Paul went to Arabia to prepare himself and to seek for perhaps; Power, God or Something?
(See Galatians 4:25), “For this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and
answers to the Jerusalem that exists now, for she is in bondage with her children”).

Galatians 1:17, ESV: “nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me,
but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus”.

Should we arguably say that the inner core of the Christianity foundation of today emanated from Mount Sinai located somewhere near Arabian peninsula, because Paul identified that Mt. Sinai was in Arabian: Gal 4:25.
Assalam.

advocatejare:

With the Quran, everything is illogical. What a verse is saying maybe completely unrelated to the previous and the next verse, yet they call such a book a miracle. Humans had to help Allah explain the Quran as Tafsir in order for the Quran to be meaningful.

It’s so hilarious, even when Allah says that the Quran is clear, there is nothing clear about it!

if it was revealed in English, there would be no need for Tafsir.

reading only the translation can give the literal meanings of the words
of Quran, however, Tafsir comes with context in which a particular
Ayah was revealed, hence giving a context to each and every word,
which consequently means a better understanding of
Quran and its verses.

the holy Qur'an is right & divine....there is no effect without a cause
for a root to grow many branches with leaves some seeds must first be planted on the ground, what I'm saying is their true existence and nature branded them the name and has been in the form of a seed cast to bring forth many fruits

ANTIlSLAM:

According to Islamic teaching, Allah identifies the purpose of Islam in the Quran

“We have not sent (Prophet Muhammad) except as a mercy to all the world” (21:107).

The message that Allah sent with Prophet Muhammad was to achieve mercy on earth, and
anything contrary to mercy and justice does not belong to the message of Islam. Islam recognizes
that non-Muslims are an essential component of human society; as Allah says,
“And if thy Lord willed, He verily would have made mankind one nation, yet they cease not differing”
(11:118)
And all human beings are honored in Islam regardless of their religions:
“We have honored the children of Adam” (17:70).

Islam builds its relations with non-Muslim communities on the rules of justice, as per the verse,
“Allah does not forbid you to be kind and to act justly to those who have neither made war on your
religion nor expelled you from your homes. Allah loves the just” (60:.
Further exegesis also read that no fighting is needed
unless there is an aggressive provocation: “Fight in the way of Allah those who fight against you, but do
not aggress. Allah does not love the aggressors” (2:190).

Below is an excerpt from the (Amman Message, 2004; 4):
Whatever the ideological foundation of terrorism,
Islam denounces such concepts that are
associated with the transgression of human life and
causing fear among peaceful civilians. Moreover,
“[the] history [of] extremism has been instrumental in
destroying noble achievements in great civilizations.....
the tree of civilization withers when malice
takes hold and breasts are shut. In all its shapes,
extremism is a stranger to Islam, which is founded upon equanimity and tolerance.
No human whose heart has been illumined by God could be a radical extremist”

advocatejare:

Idol worshipper, go and bow down to Allah the Blackstone.

there's so much clarity in Islam, if we are to study the pre-islamic arabia,
study the significance of the Ka`bah, etc.
unlike Christianity. You people crucified your own God, and you are now seeking atonement. Atonement from what exactly? Abi you people differing explanations of atonement aren't confusing enough already. Ain't man born with sin and still dwelling and drinking from it on the daily? Your God, was tired of animal sacrifices and he then offered himself in replacement for the remission of what? Look at a pagan christian attacking his own kinds....and what kind of a 'pagan' christian are you? Don't tell me you have your own 'customized' Bible.


Al `Imran 3: 96
Behold, the first House (of Prayer) established for mankind is the one at Bakkah: it is full of blessing and a centre of guidance for the whole world.

you are now bringing the fight to your doormat, this is what you should have been doing in the first place.
do your own house cleaning first before anything and while you at it - don't forget to visit your "other rooms of conflicting Christianity beliefs" where some Christianity sects almost universally attack the deity of Christ. While some few sects make this denial outright, others are more ambiguous. But all have departed from the clear biblical position:
Christianity, when properly understood, is a religion of losers
Giles Fraser


church of latter-day saints
Catholicism (mother of God belief,etc)
The Eastern Lightning also known as the Church of Almighty God
The Unification Church
Roman Catholics: child abuse, wealth hording, meddling in politics
Pentecostal: weird, crazy, not acknowledging traditions
Evangelical: gospel of wealth, aggressive proselytism, conservative
Mormons and Jehovah’s witnesses claim to be Christians but they’ve changed the gospel.

TenQ:

It is a lame excuse to blame the LANGUAGE of transmission!
Hebrew and Arabic are from the same Semitic Language group: have you ever heard Christians complaining that the language cannot be translated ?

have I ever heard Christians complaining that the language cannot be translated?
well, this will be last time i will comment on this very topic...and i will leave you with an excerpt from answering-islam:

there is no translation of the Qur'an to compare with translations of the Bible such as the Revised Standard Version or New American Standard Version. These were done by committees of scholars and the result has been a remarkably consistent and accurate rendering of the original. Every well-known translation of the Qur'an has been the work of an individual and, to one degree or another in every case, the value of the final product is tempered by the presence of the author's own personal convictions and interpretations. Perhaps in time a select body of Western and Muslim scholars will get together to produce a standard translation of the Qur'an. As long as Muslim suspicions about Western scholars of Islam persist, however, the desired eventuality remains unlikely.

TenQ:

Muslims tell BIG lies whenever they try to cover up the misnomers in their Quran, Hadiths and Tafsirs especially when doing translation. I have helped you to break it down: you can confirm.

Qur'an 46:31
O our people! respond to Allah’s summoner and believe in Him. He will forgive you some of your sins and guard you from a painful doom.
Arabic
يَـٰقَوْمَنَآ أَجِيبُوا۟ دَاعِىَ ٱللَّهِ وَءَامِنُوا۟ بِهِۦ يَغْفِرْ لَكُم مِّن ذُنُوبِكُمْ وَيُجِرْكُم مِّنْ عَذَابٍ أَلِيمٍۢ ٣١

and believe in him= وَءَامِنُوا۟ بِهِۦ
he will forgive you =بِهِۦ يَغْفِرْ لَكُم
of your sins =مِّن ذُنُوبِكُمْ

Qur'an 4:64
We sent no messenger save that he should be obeyed by Allah’s leave. And if, when they had wronged themselves, they had but come unto thee and asked forgiveness of Allah, and asked forgiveness of the messenger, they would have found Allah Forgiving, Merciful.
Arabic
وَمَآ أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلَّا لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ ٱللَّهِ ۚ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذ ظَّلَمُوٓا۟ أَنفُسَهُمْ جَآءُوكَ فَٱسْتَغْفَرُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ وَٱسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ ٱلرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ تَوَّابًۭا رَّحِيمًۭا

ask forgiveness of Allah = جَآءُوكَ فَٱسْتَغْفَرُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ
and ask forgiveness of the messanger = وَٱسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ ٱلرَّسُولُ
they would have found allah forgiving merciful = لَوَجَدُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ تَوَّابًۭا رَّحِيمًۭا


Your Translation is VERY WRONG Sir!


Mohammed forgives sins of Muslims!

semantic loss in the Holy Qur’an Translation,
there seems to exist either frequent partial or complete semantic loss of meanings mostly due to mistranslations, semantic complexity of the vocabularies, and culture. Both Arabic and English languages have differences in form, and they both make different distinctions in meaning. For example, the plurality in the Holy Qur’an does not serve only for a grammatical purpose; it adds extra meaning that sometimes gives the opposite connotations. The Arabic word الريح [alreeh] “wind,” which is singular, has punishment meaning. Whereas the second word الرياح [alriah], which is plural, has a blessing and bounty meaning.

English lacks a specific term hyponym. something like pigeon, crow, eagle, and seagull are all hyponyms of bird, an Arabic lexical item may have many hyponyms, whereas the English linguistic system does not have equivalent lexical items for the Arabic hyponyms and the list goes on and on.
Like some culture-specific terms and concepts in the two languages, Like most arabic terms that are not properly lexicalized in English, let alone the conspicuous differences between Arabic and English in expressive meaning, etc.

one of the difficulties in translating the Holy Qur’an is that some lexicons are Qur’an specific? However, for a text such as the Holy Qur’an, which conveys the words of Allah the Almighty, translating it poses lots of difficulties and quandaries for early translators. Once again, this is a proper English translation:

Mufti Taqi Usmani
We did not send any Messenger but to be obeyed by the leave of Allah. Had they, after having wronged themselves, come to you and sought forgiveness from Allah, and had the Messenger prayed for their forgiveness, they would certainly have found Allah Most-Relenting, Very-Merciful.

TenQ:

Are you saying that the post below is summarised by your translation above?

If you ask any Muslim the Question:
"Who has the power to forgive sins?", The obvious response would be Allah only!
AND
If you ask any Muslim the Question:
"Who has the power to admit people into paradise"? , The obvious response still would be Allah only!

HOWEVER:
Evidence from the Shahada:
1. We know that it is impossible for anyone now to become a Muslim WITHOUT reciting the shahada pledging a belief in both Allah and Mohammed.

2. Evidence from the Qur'an
Qur'an 46:31
O our people! respond to Allah’s summoner and believe in Him. He will forgive you some of your sins and guard you from a painful doom.

Observations:
1. Muslims are enjoined by Allah to have faith in Mohammed
2. Mohammed has the power to forgive sins of Muslims AND
3. save them from painful hellfire
4. HOWEVER, It seems UNLIKE Allah, Mohammed can only forgive SOME of Muslim's sins.

This is also confirmed in the next Quranic verse
Qur'an 4:64
We sent no messenger save that he should be obeyed by Allah’s leave. And if, when they had wronged themselves, they had but come unto thee and asked forgiveness of Allah, and asked forgiveness of the messenger, they would have found Allah Forgiving, Merciful.

We can see two personalities who can forgive sins
1. Allah
2. Mohammed the Messanger

3. Evidence from the Hadith
To make it more clear, we can check the Hadiths (the hadith is long but you can read the full text in www.sunnah.com

Sahih Bukhari 7410
Narrated Anas:
The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Allah will gather the believers on the Day of Resurrection in the same way (as they are gathered in this life), and they will say, 'Let us ask someone to intercede for us with our Lord that He may relieve us from this place of ours.' ..
...
They will go to Jesus who will say, 'I am not fit for this undertaking, but you'd better go to Muhammad whose sins of the past and the future had been forgiven (by Allah).' So they will come to me and I will ask the permission of my Lord, and I will be permitted (to present myself) before Him. ..... O Muhammad! Raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to; and ask, for you will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will then raise my head and praise my Lord with certain praises which He has taught me, and then I will intercede. Allah will allow me to intercede (for a certain kind of people) and will fix a limit whom I will admit into Paradise.

The story starts from Adam, then to Noah, then to Abraham, then to Moses and eventually to Jesus who would ALL reject the assignment because they are UNFIT for it.

It is amazing that even though Jesus didn't have any excuse for being UNFIT, he recommends Mohammed as the one that is perfect for the assignment.

To cut the long story short, we can see that Mohammed would be the one to ADMIT people into paradise and NOT Allah.

Yet, Muslims try to convince everyone that only Allah can admit people into paradise.

QUESTIONS:
1. Since we can see that Mohammed can forgive Sins like Allah AND he is the one to Admit Muslims into paradise; What are the explanations you have that Mohammed is not a PARTNER with Allah?
2. What are the kinds of sins Mohammed cannot forgive?

1 Mufti Taqi Usmani
We did not send any Messenger but to be obeyed by the leave of Allah. Had they, after having wronged themselves, come to you and sought forgiveness from Allah, and had the Messenger prayed for their forgiveness, they would certainly have found Allah Most-Relenting, Very-Merciful.

this is real translation:

Mufti Taqi Usmani

O our people, respond to Allah’s herald, and believe in him, and (once you do that,) Allah will forgive your sins for you, and will save you from a painful punishment.

advocatejare:

Just like people of your like, you wrote long write up without meanings thinking that you can confuse the audience, but you ended up exposing your folly!


The words in red exposed Allah as the deceiver who made another person that looked like Jesus to be crucified thereby making people believe that it was Jesus that was crucified and the people had this belief for 600 years before Muhammad was was always hallucinating, thinking he had done what he never did, who was pinned down in the cave by a jinn suddenly said that it was not actually Jesus that was crucified.

But he didn’t tell us whom the person on the cross was!

He didn’t tell us why Allah had to deceive the whole world by replacing Jesus with another person on the cross if he didn’t want Jesus dead he could have used his power to stop it rather than deceiving everyone for 600 years



Was it also the Jews that claimed that another person was made to resemble Jesus to them or was it Allah that made that deceitful statement!


Another lie from Islamic liars, the book of Malachi was written between 450-425 years before Jesus was born

Jesus came after that and spoke God’s words to people and yet you’re claiming now that since the time of Malachi that no prophet was sent!

You’re a just a liar!

your theologians got you played...it is never anything relate to Islamic writings...The 400 Years of silence is also known as the Intertestamental period by Catholics and Protestant community and that is a fact. According to these denominations, God revealed nothing to his people, he was simply silent as they lived their lives and waited for the promised messiah.

I was a more Christian than you before....go and do your research, there is the existence of the Spiritual Significance of 400 Years.
The Israelites were in bondage in Egypt for 400 years (Gen 15:13, Acts 7:6). The time span for the seven Judges of Israel was roughly 400 years (Judges 1-21). The “Divided Kingdom” lasted 400 years (1 Kings 12 – 2 Kings 25). The ministry of the prophets spans roughly 400 years. There were 400 years of silence from Malachi until Jesus was born

advocatejare:
Sahih al-Bukhari 3948
Narrated Salman:
The interval between Jesus and Muhammad was six hundred years.



So Allah has to wait for 600 years to tell the world that he deceived them!


LegalWolf, AntiChristian, Haekymbahd, Rash4ductluv


Why is Allah a deceiver?

Sometimes, I wonder why you do what you with so much hate drawn from the depth of your own
understanding of the holy Qu'ran. You just quoted Surah An-Nisa 4:157 to contradict yourself as what you proclaimed to be a logical conclusion drawn from the depth of your own understanding and I quote you in your own words, "Concerning the crucifixion and death of Jesus, Islam’s position is that the crucifixion and death didn’t happen because of what Allah said in the Quran.
Allah said he was the one that deceived everyone that it was Jesus that was crucified!" is clearly different from what was in the context of the above-mentioned Quranic versed as you have denied the truth of same qu'ranic verse by asserting the opposite.

One doesn't have to be well-versed in English (as a second language) to understanding the use of context to construct meaning from words as they are read....the same mentioned qu'ranic verse started with "And [for] their saying"? and then proceeds to quote their statement

And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of Allāh." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
-Quran 4:157

And from the readers that will see the post, you all can read that this statement was clearly claims and quotes from the Jews. that is to say should one is to start his/her reading from Surah An-Nisa 4:153-159. he/she will clearly understand much better that it was the Jews claims and not Allah's....it was the Jews claims to mean they have killed the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.

They continued to preach the crucifixion and death of Jesus for 600 years until Muhammad came and said that Allah told him that it was not Jesus on the cross that it was another person

my thoughts are - not every Christians knew about this truth that God went silent for over 400 years since the book of Malachi?
He did not speak to any man, his people on earth nor send down any prophet?
It was what was termed the intertestamental gap years of prophetic silence....right? Now...
the 400+gap years in-between or more like a +400 years long spiritual bridge that connects the old testament to the new testament.
And our holy Qu'ran is the last testament. what is there not to understand that when you are in Islam you are at your final destination and in absolute submission to God only and no other and the prophet(pbuh) is his messenger.

the Christianity you all church-goers are practicing is called pagan-christianity that's how Judaism sees you people. in same breathe you will say Jesus is God, so your God died on the cross in exchange for what exactly...? In the same breathe again you will say he himself based on the idea of trinitarian belief he is his own son...even your Bible can't tell the exact instrument he died on....the adoption of the cross symbol into Christianity was 100% a pagan relic. been there before and done that...I rather take my chances at following the path i feel at peace with than be spiritually brainwashed with obscured confusions

the Christianity you all church-goers are practicing is called pagan-christianity that's how Judaism sees you people. in same breathe you will say Jesus is God, so your God died on the cross in exchange for what exactly...? In the same breathe again you will say he himself based on the idea of trinitarian belief he is his own son...even your Bible can't tell the exact instrument he died on....the adoption of the cross symbol into Christianity was 100% a pagan relic. been there before and done that...I rather take my chances at following the path i feel at peace with than be spiritually brainwashed with obscured confusions

we have been through this before
https://www.nairaland.com/7000137/jesus-disciples-accused-poor-eating#113469968

waters from the well of bu'daah was never a stagnant water; it was a running water. And d non-Muslims weren't that stupid to the extent of throwing filth into a community well that was theirs? It was the heavy down-pour that washed impurities into the well. A well that was somewhat large and its waters running continuously into the garden. And if we are to test for impurities, how is that for science? Giving the expanse of the well and its running course in all. Don't tell me ones' sputum or camel urine should have been a considerable option, when you clearly have a well that was not stagnant, even the offensive smell of a stagnant water would make one puke uncontrollably.
same answer from me anytime

The New Testament does not specifically describe the instrument
upon which Christ died, though Acts 5:30; 10:39; and 13:28-29
refer to it as a "tree." The Greek word xulon, translated "tree" in
these verses, can mean a stick, club, tree, stake, or other wooden
articles.
The shocking revelation is that the "Christian" use of the cross did
not begin until the time of Constantine, three centuries after Christ
Archaeologists have not found any Christian use of the symbol
before that time. According to one writer (W. E. Vine, Expository
Dictionary of New Testament Words, article "Cross"wink, the cross
as a "Christian" symbol was taken directly from the pagans.
The Romans, the ones who according to the Bible crucified Christ,
are known to have used instruments of various shapes. Some
were simply upright timbers, others had crosspieces attached
either at the top or just a little below the top. The word "cross"
in...
But today the most important and sacred symbol of mainstream
"Christianity" (made up of Catholics, Protestants, and other Sunday-
keeping churches) is the cross. It is used on Bibles and on church
signs, altars, and rooftops. The floor plans …
So I ask you noise-makers, church-goers, church bench-warmers,
shouting everywhere as if they are being bitten by some invisible
holy spirit, I ask again:
The Cross: A Christian Banner or Pagan Relic?
Is the Symbol of the Cross Idolatry?
Was Jesus Crucified on a Cross or Stake (Matthew 27:35)?
Why did the Origin of the Christian Cross emanate three centuries
after Christ?
Why? Why?

AntiChristian:


You mean the ones you cherry picked with the guidance of the Holy Spirit? I beg i no follow you dumb!

greatest mind-hack of all time, The First Council of Nicaea and their numerous historic other meetings "bible"
cherry-picked fruits dey sweet for their tongues, they eat the gospel 247 like say they are on life-long prescriptions.

advocatejare:
Muslims claim that Islam means submission to Allah and that a Muslim is someone who submits to Allah, but when you ask them to tell you where this definition is found in the Quran, they won’t be able to show you.


Now I ask any Muslim that is proud of his/her religion and that is knowledgeable about it to show us in the Quran direct words not in brackets or parentheses where Islam is said to mean “submission to Allah” and where a Muslim is said to be “someone that submits to Allah”

In order to understand the meaning of "Muslim" in the Quran it is necessary to understand the meaning of "Islam".

The word "Islam" is an infinitive with the root letters of "س ل م", the root letters mean healthy and devoid of an defects and corruption, but the infinitive means surrendering and obeying one's commands with no opposition.

The Quran has used the term in its broad sense as well: "All of those who are in the heavens and the earth or all of the creatures in the heavens and the earth are Muslims and have (willingly or unwillingly) submitted to Allah’s generative (takwini) or legislative (tashri’i) will."

As for the Islam of people towards Allah, it means for them to be satisfied with their destinies that Allah (swt) has determined for them, both the destinies that have to do with what happens to the individual in this world and the ones related to Islamic rulings and the do’s and don’ts.

In normal usage though, "Islam" denotes the religion that Prophet Mohammad brought to the people.

The tie between the two meanings is that this religion is all about surrendering to Allah (swt) and adhering to His decrees and the laws He has legislated without question

In the Quran, not only those who were among the companions of prophet Mohammad are considered Muslims, but rather all people throughout history who have surrendered and submitted to Allah and rejected paganism are Muslims and this is why the Quran introduces Prophet Abraham as a Muslim even though he lived before prophet Mohammad.

When Allah addresses the prophet saying: " Say:" I have been commanded to be the first who (becomes Muslim)." And do not be of those who set-up partners (for Allah)", what is meant is the second meaning of Islam, meaning that the prophet was commanded to be the first one amongst his people to believe in what was revealed to him, not to be the first person in history to surrender to Allah because all other prophets that lived before him had already surrendered to Allah and obeyed his commands.

It can be understood from verse 85 of Surah Ale Imran
(Whosoever chooses a religion other than Islam, it will not be accepted from him) and
verse 3 from Surah Al Ma’edah (Today I have perfected your religion and am happy with Islam as your religion) that Muslims are only those who follow the religion of the prophet (pbuh), because by choosing Islam as their religion and believing in all previous prophets and divine religions, they have proven their submission to Allah (swt). According to this definition, today people of other religions are not Muslims because they have not surrendered to Allah by accepting the new religion that was revealed to the seal of prophets. Therefore nowadays only the followers of Prophet Muhammad are Muslims, even though they may not act according to the teachings and rulings of Islam. The first verse of Surah Hujurat shows that even if one does not truly practice Islam he is still considered a Muslim due to his belief. The verse is about a group of bedouins that came to the prophet saying that they had become believers (mu’mins) and thought by such, they were doing him a favor. The verse commands the prophet to tell them to say that they have become Muslims and not Mu’mins. Of course, although practicing does not change the fact that one is Muslim or not, but to be a true Muslim not only should one believe in Islam but he must also act according to his belief and the teachings and laws of his religion, let those laws be social ones such as haqqul-nas or personal ones such as prayer and fasting

When it was found missing on the day of Badr, some people said; Perhaps the Messenger of Allah has taken it
rumours - false accusation without facts thereby lacking any iota of evidence -
rumours with the perhaps word is not a fact.

all still and still. you still they right bcuz dz candlesticks matter self don tire me @MONEY247
I only let some ppl way own learn the basics and they read every posts to add to their bota.

MONEY247:
Usdchf...pair focus...
No sign of any kind of bearish reversal,
You see that candle, arched at the bottom, they call it dragon fly , or hanging man, can't remember.... .it signifies bullishness

Usdchf would tank up magnificently........
NB: Trade on demo, only...
I am a demo trader too .....lol

Forex trading is sweet...

Timeframe pics.; D1 and weekly chart

if you are referring to the red candlestick that bottomed out, touching the yellow line that marks d 0.93716 price level on the D1 Timeframe. That is a hammer not a dragonfly nor hanging man? we can only call it a hanging man if it where to form at the rising top near a major resistance i.e uptrend.

they called a hammer bcuz it kind of looks like a
hammer that is trying to "hammer-out" a bottom on
the chart, and it signals that the price could start rising
soon. hammer resembles hanging man in shape and components a lot but where they form either uptrend or downtrend, and depending on past price actions allot each its own name respectively. if we are to research further as in for edu..purpose. even dragonfly resembles hammer doji to some degree self. dragonfly>hammer doji>hammer (aka hanging man depending on past price actions) naa the somewhat developmental cycle be that.

I have been dodging to learn Elliot wave theory initially, but dz article along with babypips explains everything in a much detailed manner.
https://www.daytradetheworld.com/trading-blog/how-to-use-the-elliots-wave-trading-strategy/

https://www.babypips.com/learn/forex/riding-elliotts-waves

so one can't be going about looking for the setup, d setup has to come to him/her first. just stacking up knowledge for the road ahead.