₦airaland Forum

Also, and I know some people have called me crazy lately, but what difference does "foreign-trained" vs "domestic-trained" make? Abi na football?

Just curious

So,

There r 2 ways to work: working hard and working smart. I have used both the DOS prompt and phpadmin. To me, the latter is easier and smarter in my opinion. Y not just go with phpadmin and get what you want to do done in seconds as opposed to spending posting time upon posting time scratching your head to get it done via DOS prompt?

That's my take anyways. Then again, I am known to be a very lazy person

Good luck to you, regardless of the approach you take.

America has taken away everything from us. Now na football remain. How can you call a game where the foot is only used seldomly "football". If that is the case, handball should be called football too. Please my brethren, don't let Americans run your lives from afar. Rather than them export sports to us, why can't we export sports to them?

In any event, the day we start playing American football, na im b say world don finish b dat. Not to mention, our bodies in Nigeria aren't made for American football - due to all d garri wey we dey chop, we are built from the waste down, as opposed to the typical American athlete who lifts weights and is built from the waste up.

Make una no fall for am o!

Yep, but it's worth it.

In general, it may seem a bit much but hey, you want all the users possible right? You want to be able to put out a website that is based on web standards so that everyone, and not just the 80% who use IE, has access to it. By the "long tail" principle, you will probably make more money off of the 10 or so % combined than from the 80% who use firefox.

I pretty much rewrote your site in my previous post. If you take the time upfront to plan the site architecture, by laying out all the pages on the floor and coming up with a uniform approach, you can eliminate a lot of potential pitfalls. Spend the time to do it right once and not have to worry about refactoring or giving your client premature balding cos of code that is hard to maintain. First off, you should never, except in one-off situations, write your styles inline. Sure, there are 1001 ways of doing things, which is why I asked of your approach, but some approaches are better than others.

Besides, as a web developer, you owe it to yourself to code for all major browsers anyways

Having looked at your code again, I know exactly what the problem is: You are using absolute positioning and both IE and FF treat positioning differently.

If you used FF for development and had one particular really cool plugin, the web developer tool, you would have been able to narrow down the problem very quickly. For one, you can edit CSS and HTML inline via the browser and immediately see how your change affects the page layout.

To get rid of your problem, you are going to have to use a hack. There are many kinds (I will list some here, and give a few examples. I don't know their technical names but google will probably do a better job): CSS conditional statement, using "!important" and using "html>body". The 2nd and 3rd options is what you would use for FF exclusively. The first I blv is something that works in IE. So you could say (in pseudocode. Again, refer to google), "if gte IE7, do stuff".

For the last 2, let's say you have layer77 with its positions. To take care of it in both browsers, you could do:

top: 50px !important;
top: 45px;

This tells FF to position layer77 at 50px from the top, but 45px for IE. From my experience, you have to list the "!important" line first for this hack to work properly.

The next hack:
div#layer77 {
top 50px;
}

html>body div#layer77 {
top: 60px;
}

the first one tells IE what to do while the second one is for FF.

Out of curiousity, why use positioning and not just let the divs flow naturally? Also, why make those headers in flash and not plain old images? I am sure you have your reasons but I am just curious as to why. Your way will be hard to maintain on the client's end.

If I were to redo this page, I would probably have 2 column containers floated left and within each container, have the divs for each section. Hopefully, you are using includes, in which case, making changes will require minimal effort:

<div id="container">
<div id="left-column" style="float: left;">
<div id="1">Welcome to our site</div>
<div id="2">Our services</div>
</div>
<div id="right-column" style="float: left;">
<div id="3">Welcome to our site</div>
<div id="4">Our services</div>
</div>

<br style="clear:both;" />
</div>

Of course, you would move the inline styles to a CSS file. And since each inner div would have the same xtics, you could probably turn my ids into one class with its xtics having a header image (which you could create using an H1 tag with a background for SEO reasons, if you must use an image) and body text.

Positioning, from my experience, can be a pain and I would highly discourage its use unless you absolutely have to use it. From your design, I would say you don't have to.

I hope this helps.

IG,

The article is basically a satire. It is discussing OOP but making fun of those who abuse it or don't use it at all. Hence, in the article, you will see a defintion of "abject". In other words, most pplez code is lacking in certain aspects.

I hope this helps.

Disclaimer: I browse exclusively in FF

- In the product section, I think you should separate the 2 products in green so as to make for better readability.

- The "Services" text is butting up against the "welcome" text ("home page" and "about us".

- The ocular minds graphic in the "service" section is also chopping off the last sentence in that section.

- The "solutions driven software" graphic is blocking your contact info on the home page.

- Finally, and this is more of a personal preference , is it possible to set some kind of cookie for the header so that once it has been determined that the flash has loaded once, it doesn't "flash" on subsequent pages? It was kind of distracting to me having to concentrate on the content with the page loading. Same applies to the phone logo on the home page.

Overall, the site meets my KISS criteria

That's all for now. Good job and good luck! As u jus dey release sites every 2 weeks, abi u need help?

aare et al,

It's all about capitalism folks. If you see the same shoe you saw on Allen Avenue at Oju elegba and it sold for 50% less than the Allen Avenue price, would you say the same thing you are saying to donmaco?

Before you do anything, be it purchasing, believing in something etc, you owe it to yourselves to do ur own research. If donmaco has found a way to make it convenient for some pple who are **too lazy** to do the research for themselves and charge them in the process, wetin be una own? Wetin concern bird with toothbrush?

You have a right to tell others that you can do it for free, but please don't attack donmaco in the process.

Let the free market reign!!

luckyCO,

not at all. I was just making a general statement. In some ways, I feel I should be apologizing to you

Later

from a bird's eye view:

I would say that for your photo gallery, you should have the picture popup, either lightbox style, or in a smaller window/layer as opposed to a brand new page in which case I have to manually click back to get back to the gallery page. If the client insists, then provide a "back to gallery page" and/or "back to home page" link at the bottom of each photo.

I hope this helps

I don't think any of these solutions will help jenwaf unless we get from him the language he is using or if he just wants it in pseudocode.

On the other hand, perhaps jenwaf should come up with some pseudocode which we could then help fine-tune rather than come up with the solutions entirely ourselves and with no input from him/her. I don't think jenwaf will learn that way.

If we start doing things because someone says so, and not cos we say so, I don't think the world wd b a good place.

Having said that, it is my opinion that to be a programmer, school isn't necessary. In order to be a good programmer though, school is necessary. There is a difference b/w a programmer and a "good" programmer:

A programmer can think logically and represent that thought in code. A "good" programmer does what a programmer does and has a reason for it (for example, what language works best in a particular situation, what construct to use and why (for example, using a particular looping structure could result in data being returned in nlogn time as opposed to logn time, aka "Big O", etc).

just MHO anyways. Just the way one man sees it all. Just my 2 cents on the matter

Afam,

What "Almighty" Igwe doesn't realize is that, from the get-go, I was never in competition with anyone. My sole aim of putting up "Webmasters of Africa" was to promote the African Webmaster, and to hopefully get the world to outsource to us as opposed to the Asians. From my web logs, I can see that the "Find a webmaster" page is the most visited. If only such searches resulted in pple actually getting hired, that would be great. As I said earlier, I will be advertising the site during my next visit, even if it is for a .5 x .5 inch slot on a newspaper or a 2 second spot on the radio. So to me, it's a win-win situation - I rank high, he ranks high.

Unfortunately, he has fallen for "big-manism". I never claimed to be an SEO expert. In fact, I never claim to be an expert on anything. Should he have posted with comments like, "You know, there are better and faster ways to rank higher" or something like that, I would have been more responsive to him. I personally hate arrogance and particular hate self-inflated egos. But hey, I guess pple are different.

So, if "beating" me is what will make him happy, let him have at it. He is unfortunately justifying what many have said about the black race - we are like crabs in a basket. The minute one tries to climb out, the others pull him back in.

someone passed this along to me and I figured I do same. There is a job vacancy available with NEPAD to redesign/update/develop their website. Perhaps you and I will be competing for the same job

Good luck!

http://nepad.org/2005/files/jp.php

Good luck!

As u wish

I was never in competition with you in the first place. If accepting defeat is what will relieve you of your craw-craw, then make the words work for your "network of sites", then I will say I accept defeat.

As for your tutorial, have at it. I will be sure to read it. As for calling me a "webmaster", I have never claimed to be that. I don't use such words lightly. There is more to this thing of ours to give oneself that name. The whole purpose of that thread was, as with other things, to stir up debate, a form of critique. It was my first project and I am working on another one.

Ciao!

Oleku,

Based on features so far, let me be (hopefully) the first to tip my hat to you. I wonder what the guy who posted that "All Nigerians are amateurs" would say to this. It appears you are taking your time to get out a superior product and it shows. I especially like the images randomly switching out upon a page refresh.

You requested for contributions and here is my 2 cents worth - the "An OlekuSoft Project 2007" link is not working. It references http://wwwloleku.org/ instead of www.oleku.org (which I am sure is the intended link).

Of course, I know, as you said, the site may contain errors but I figured the link stuff is probably pretty important. You never know who might, based on face of festac, decide to hire you for another project

Once again, good job!

Other than #8 above for which I disagree, I must confess that I like the way you have calmed your rhetoric, from "all bad" to "I was referred to some excellent sites".

And yep, you are right about webmasters of africa. Aesthetics wasn't the aim for that site but the architecture (which is more my area of specialization) and being able to get the information you need presented to you easily and efficiently. Good observation

Again, IMHO, I don't think a national/regional competition is what will bring out the top dogs. Who will organize it for starters?

Finally, having followed your posts so far, I can confidently conclude that you are a nice guy and do have Nigeria's best interests at heart. Don't mind those who attack you personally cos whether you like it or not, pple will always attack you, be it to your face or behind your back.

Last year, a fellow NLer, prodgalson, organized a seminar in Lagos. He is based in the states. Perhaps you should follow suit. Besides, you are closer to Nigeria than we are

Let pple associate a face with the posts. There are pple back home who need the guidance but don't know who to turn to. I am working on something from my own end and by God's grace, it should be materializing soon.

Cheers!

I believe i had the last laugh

Not exactly. You might want to stop beating your chest like a male gorilla in heat - what you said was:

i will still take over the top slots for the keyphrase "Webmasters of Africa" but will make it count as a plus for your website

Make it work for your site, not mine. and by the way, we are still waiting for at least one site from your "network of sites". By the way, today is the 14th. Time is running out.

Your reputation is at stake.

deb,

I think I have done my part big time:

1) I have contributed to 100s of posts on NL

2) I launched www.webmastersofafrica.com (full of tips, newsletters, etc - many pple have told me that clients are contacting them via the site)

3) I chat, even when at work, with lotz of pple from the webmasters/programmers forum, daily.

4) I try to practice what I preach by putting up sites I have done for review.

I will yield to someone else, preferably someone already in Nigeria, to start that thread as quite frankly, the solutions will benefit them moreso than myself. Once the thread is launched, trust me, I will contribute.

Thanks,

So, my boss shares this website with us at work the other day and I didn't get to read it till yesterday. Then it hit me, "hey, I have seen a post about this on Nairaland"

Here's the link: http://samizdat.mines.edu/howto/HowToBeAProgrammer.html

The title has "short" in it, but it is anything but that (55 pages, printed out). In other words, you probably want to read this while escaping from coder's block . Nonetheless, it is a good read and I just thought I should share. I will consider this my "do a good samaritan deed each day" post.

Enjoy!

There is a difference b/w web design and web development. If all you do is slap things together on a site, without any thought process to it, then you are the equivalent of an artist who uses a brush to throw paint onto a canvas and calls it art. There is a difference.

If you have noticed my posts, I never use "design" but "development". There is a difference. As many have said here, whether you charge 4K or you do it for free, it is up to you. It is an unwise thing to do, but you can do it nonetheless. As I like to say, "Not that I would, but I could". Personally, I would rather go work for Mr. Biggs than charge 4k for a website, even if all it said was "Hello World". If you want to charge 4K, you might as well do it for free. Heck, you are better off working for the United Nations. I hear they are hiring

Playing Devil's advocate, perhaps such people are new to the game and are trying to gain experience. In other words, as their experience/demand grows, so should their prices. Other than this scenario, biko, try make am at least 10K (not that I am advocating you charge 10K, which is still too small in my books). Have pride in what you do. Don't adopt the Walmart/Tesco ideology because those guys are selling in bulk. How many websites will you build for 4K for you to be able to afford anything in Nigeria? I mean, I am not in Nigeria, but I am sure 4K won't even buy you a bag of Uncle Bens rice.

As always, my 2 cents

deb,

There r dirty sites everywhere and these aren't limited to "made in Nigeria" websites. If you looked at my comments above, you will notice that I listed 4 south african websites that aren't exactly up to snuff either.

Do we hv some crappy sites? sure. However, rather than focus on that, we should focus on how to make things better. To that effect, I suggest a brand new thread where we actually come up with solutions, rather than highlighting the problems.

First off, and not to take from this post, for Zahy and Prodgal to reply to the same post in one day? Hmmm, something's amiss

abby,

1) Again, don't just focus on this forum but the community in general

2) Speaking for myself, I don't hate you, but may hate your views

3) I don't think competition is the way to go, personally, especially if you are unwilling to offer any incentives to make it worthwhile

4) I am happy that you have "begun to see some pretty good sites". As I have been saying all along, making generalizations isn't good. Again, I don't think you would be too happy if a south african walked up to you and said, "All Nigerians are yahoo boys". Same difference in this case.

Cheers and thank God you are slowly but gradually watering down your rhetoric

texazz,

We need to make him see the error in his ways and of his approach to this issue. If you notice, I am not attacking him but his posts. I don't want him to go home thinking that he has proven a point, when in fact, he hasn't.

It will be interesting to see how he responds to my last post with the 4 south african websites. We can't just go by what he has worked on

abby,

One thing I have noticed in the Nigerian arena is that for the most part, contracts to do anything are given not based on talent per se, but who knows who. To that effect, in my opinion, you can scratch off all the govt websites (including the akpabio one) from your list.

Again, I say, you will not get a proper representation of talent from this forum. Do what I said earlier: write up an article in a popular Nigerian newspaper and solicit your responses from there. The sites you hv listed above are not representative of Nigerian web dev as a whole. If you disagree, then what do you have to say about the following south african websites:

http://www.southafrica.net/

http://www.southafrica.info/

http://www.gov.za/

http://www.saweb.co.za/

I just did a google and got the first 4 results. Should I, based on the above, condemn the south african web dev community? You see where I am going with this?

I understand you probably have already made up your mind and so won't be changing it anytime soon. Having said that, at least give all that I have said so far, some thought.

As I stated earlier, and I said what I said based on the fact that abby has less than 5 posts, I am pretty sure that his post was intentionally made to kick up a storm. For all we know, abby doesn't really do what he says he does. He is probably indirectly soliciting for developers in disguise.

In my opinion, we shouldn't show him our respective portfolios. By so doing, we stoop to his levels. Don't let what he has said hurt your egos. Let him stew in his arrogance. After all, as my "philosophy and logic" class of unical taught me, "If All men are stupid and Socrates is a man, then Socrates is stupid". He is Nigerian. Since All Web Designers in Nigeria are amateurs, then technically, he is saying (at least when he is physically in Nigeria) he is an amateur as well.

If you want to show him your portfolios, go ahead. However, if it were up to me, I think time is best served getting abby to realize his mistakes rather than saying words to the effect that, " eh heh! so this guy dey challenge me? Make I show am".

Not worth it at all, in my opinion.

So, it is about 230am, Atlanta time, and it suddenly hit me with respect to what's up with this thread - Abby is looking to pick a fight. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm just saying.

Abby, NL or whatever forum you may have been on prior to this isn't a fair representation of the IT community, let alone the general Nigerian population.

Here is what I suggest, if you feel so passionately about this: take out a 1/2 page to a page in a Nigerian newspaper with high circulation numbers and reproduce in its entirety your first post. Then put out the same challenge with an email address for the challenged to send portfolios to. Then and only then will you get what you desire.

Again, until you have facts/numbers to back it up, you can't make blanket statements of any kind. With all due respect, I visited the sites on the links you posted up top. They are all good and some had their shortcomings. Of course no site will ever be perfect in everyone's eyes. Let's face it and call a spade a spade - there's nothing spectacular about them. Granted, I am sure those sites have raked in millions of rand for you, there's nothing on those sites that can't be found elsewhere, even amongst sites built in Nigeria. You just haven't seen them yet.

I therefore implore you to take my challenge. If you feel, after say, 100 replies, that the work is still sub-par, then come back here with your facts/numbers.

As always, my 2 cents.

abbywax,

Again, you still insist that "all" are amateurs. I think this is a wrong approach. Even God, b4 destroying Sodom and Gomorrah was willing to spare that city for the sake of 10, or so, good souls.

As for "show me your portfolio", I think I can spk with authority when I say, challenging pple to show their portfolio will probably not bring the good ones out. There is no motivation in "show me your portfolio". In my opinion, that statement is insulting and intimidating to the young ones coming up who need all the encouragement they can get. Now, if you attach a source of motivation (money, etc), , they will come out of the woodworks.

direct your browser to: http://www.flashkit.com/tutorials/

Of course, you will need the necessary software.

good luck!