₦airaland Forum

JeSoul:
But simply put, I believe in crime and punishment and justice meted out accordingly. And as a christian living by the bible, see no case against it but infact just the opposite.

Just BTW, did you read Dostoevsky novel of that title? I think it gives a lot of insight into crime and its repercussions and how society may approach the matter of punishment.

[quote author=dli-intl link=topic=695483.msg8559490#msg8559490 date=1308646385]RED OIL TRANSFORMATION(this machine changes red oil to groundnut oil)[/quote]Why would anyone want to do that? I am assuming, of course, that the machine has groundnut essence in its interiors.

JeSoul:
The only case against the DP and this is addressed today by not applying it where guilt is not beyond a shadow of a doubt - at least in the society I'm in.

  Appreciated.

But could not disagree more and could not articulate my belief as well as you have. But simply put, I believe in crime and punishment and justice meted out accordingly. And as a christian living by the bible, see no case against it but infact just the opposite.

It is taken for granted in modern criminal jurisprudence in many places, including Nigeria and the US, that guilt is to be “proved beyond reasonable doubt”. (By the way, it is "beyond reasonable doubt", not "beyond a shadow of doubt" - they mean different things.) So what I was referring to is the well-known fact that in spite of safeguards written into legislations, a few innocent people still get executed. Right now, I don’t have the time to dig up US cases where people spent years on death row only to be found innocent. In some cases it is the same police officer who investigated the offence and advised the state to seek the death penalty that goes through the process of the getting the “felon” released. A rise in such cases forced some US states to put a "moratorium" on the application of the death penalty. I don’t even want to talk about China where they simply pick you up, torture you into confessing to the crime and on that confession sentence you to death, or Iran where, finding nothing in the law books to accuse an undesirable of, they will say “he has offended God” and give him the death penalty. The US and other first world countries have cases of innocent people who got whacked because the justice system is imperfect, as it is run by mortals who only got five senses. This has not been addressed. I doubt it can. And for me, this is a major problem with the death penalty and the only way to solve it is to abolish the death penalty completely. But my complete rejection of the death penalty goes beyond that. Which is why I think states like New Mexico have tried, but not enough.

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=692895.msg8560417#msg8560417 date=1308654696]Hi MyJoe. Even, when people are guilty, their is no spiritual bases for death penalty in my opinion. Neither the state nor an individual should harbor the desire to kill another human being even if that person is a criminal. Murder remain murder even when a murderer is the victim. Death penalty is lacking in both love and justice and do no seek ways to rehabilitate the criminal and turn him into a new path. Even if the criminal is a pathological murderer, murdering him or her is not the answer if the aim is to protect society from his evil ways. Society can be protected from his activities by removing him from the public space, and there are non violent ways to do this. My view is that the unconscious or conscious urge for revenge is the motivating impulse for seeking death penalty and not the urge for justice or for protection of society from the activities of the criminal.  Violence is a viscous circle and will only breed violence. Violence reprograms the brain making it virtually impossible for the spirit to have any influence on the physical body. Once human beings are subjected to so much violence , all that you will see is the crudest form of baseness. Neither the state nor individuals should encourage any form of violence and the first step  in this is for all nation states to abolish death penalty. Stay blessed.[/quote]Thanks. 100% agreed.

You see how heartless the death penalty is when you observe cases like Tookie Williams. He had obviously turned a new leaf. He served the community. He insisted he did not do that particular crime. He had become a model citizen. But, no. The society's crave for revenge had to be satisfied.

5solas:

Matthew 11:27
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

For starters.

You'd have to get on with the rest, as what you have provided for starters does not lend much support to the Calvinist doctrine of double predestination. Jesus was there merely stressing the point that you can't get to know the Father without learning from him, the Son.

Besides, how do you square off that idea with Jesus's statement at John 3:16 - whosoever believes. . . ?

JeSoul:
Lol. You fellas are funny lol.

Me I no send anybody oh. Just come and find my trouble . . . try breaking into my house or hurting a member of my family . . . you go chop correct lead. The only problem I have with the death penalty is that it is not quick and swift enough.
On point!

Plus lots of guiltless people get whacked. . .  by the state. Wouldn't you say that is another problem with it?

5solas:
@ Frosbel
Why don't you come up with actual Calvinist teachings instead of straw man arguments?
I will answer you then.

So do you believe some people are elect for salvation?

^^^

Men, indeed!

Ingredients:
1 pack of noodles
Sliced cabbage and carrots, with some green peas - about the same volume as noodles
1 egg
A little quantity of vegetable oil
Water

Modus of paratus
Place egg in sufficient water and boil
Remove wrappings from noodle and place whole on a fairly large bowl
Pour boiling water, along with egg, over noodle and cover bowl
After two or three minutes, remove egg and place in room temperature water - cover bowl again
After four or five minutes, open bowl and empty vegetables on it - ensure that everything is absorbed in water
Drain water immediately
Add a little amount of vegetable oil to bowl
Add seasoning (but not the pepper) and stir
Break egg, throw away the yolk add the white to the bowl

My steaming bowl of noodles - Enjoy! 

2buff:
I hail Japan. I have TOO MUCH respect for these guys and the stuff they come up with. 

. . .

Right. Kudos to this scientist.

2buff: Though I ain't eating that, the funny part is, a couple of years down the road if this ever becomes mainstream-ish. . . how will you know?
I mean there you are drooling, slobbering and salivating as you cram your mouth full with recycled poop thinking it's "meat substitute". 

Of course, there will be labelling and all.

Pastor AIO:
By the way, it was the JW that broke out of the Seventh-Day-Adventists.

I think it would be more accurate to say they came out of the same source, since a distinction should be made between the Seventh-Day Adventist Church and the original Adventist movement, known as Millerite Adventism or Second Adventism.

The founder of the JW was closely associated with, and was heavily influenced by, the the Millerites. But note that while almost of all his initial associates were Millerite Adventist Ministers, he himself was not, he was never even baptised as an Adventist. In fact, it is difficult to pin him to any church since he rejected the conventional Protestant teachings of his Presbyterian heritage (he was of Scottish-descent) at an early age and studied the Bible on his own - he was an "emerging Christian" through and through. 

The Seventh-Day Adventist Church grew out of Millerite Adventism and is recognised as a part of the Adventist Movement. It is said that the spirit and precepts of William Miller (Adventist founder) live on in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who admit it, and the JW, who don't.

@Potato
[quote author=Ms._Potato]Wow! Really? Like the other day when I pick up one of my bf's friend from the airport, he brought back the ingredients to make Ogbona soup anbd he told me he will make it for dinner. I said ok and after he made it, I find it so hard to swallow the thing cause theres a certain ingredient which makes the taste funny to me. But than I am not sure if that the exact taste of Ogbona soup cause after my bf ate it, he was telling me that the soup he cook is not nice.[/quote]You try my possibilities here next time you go on an ogbono mission.

InesQor:
I know you always do listen, but on account of this crowd standing here I've spoken so that they might believe that you sent me."
-John 11:42

This fig tree story is only another example of Jesus doing something JUST to foster faith in those who were with him. Jesus didn't even need to utter a word or hold his breath if his "problem" was to destroy a fig tree.

Nothing more.

Nothing less.

Let's read between the lines? Thankye.

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
John 20:31

It does't quite add up. It's like wishing to dry your melons at 6pm and showing surprise there is no sunrise and then cursing the sun. Sounds like a show of na[i]k[/i]ed power.

mikeansy:
This man can never fill Bin Laden shoes.

1. He did not inherit £30m from his father.
2. he is not charismatic.
3. He has been around for a while and gathering info on him will simply be a continual process.

They will bring him down in 6 months.

4. He does not have Osama's calm disposition - this guy will do something rash very soon.
5. Intelligence gathering seems to be getting better - three Al Qaeda lords killed in a matter of weeks.

I think they will get him very soon.

JeSoul:
There are crimes we commit against each other and there are crimes we commit against the laws of the land - and sometimes these two intersect. I think each situation is different and should be approached as such.

If a 'member' of the church despoils a child, not only will I call the police, press and anyone else who will listen on him, I might be tempted to unload my 9mm on him as well. I have dealt with a christian producer one time who took my money and never delivered the services. I simply let it go and warned others not to do business with him. If the amount of money were larger, I would've probably tried to get it back one way or another.

There are various levels/degrees of crimes - and subsequently levels/degrees of response - and hence levels of punishment.

JeSoul the sharpshooter!

JeSoul:
Good points Mysir and I do agree on some. I did state in my very first post on this thread that the personal stuff should be stopped and private communications are better off left private . . . that part of my quote joagbaje conveniently left out.
^But no, he only chose to see the criticism - one of the problems I have with posters like him. They go all up in arms when they're called out, but will scarcely acknowledge they too are at fault.
Recall the interview thread I did on him? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-551666.0.html
Is he dispproportionately 'attacked'? of course. But he has come to be a leader of sorts of a brand of christianity that is severely disliked in this section & around the forum and people are voicing their opinions - that the mods cannot do anything about. When WOF/MOG topics make front page, are the mods supposed to tell people not to disproportionately critisize them?

To be sure, I disagree with Joagbaje on the point that we should always leave judging to God, and I agree with Nuclearboy that we should not live with filth. But this is a delicate matter – and when a fly perches on your scrotum, you kill it with caution. Resort to insults, you will cause problems. Leave the matter, there are foreseeable problems.

Some might insist that what is filth here is subjective (although I personally know what I think of those who use religion to make money) and the only way to persuade the objective baby Christian that you have the grain is to use scripture verses.

JeSoul: As far as I know it is only Nuke that has revealed any private (and unsolicited as he says) communication with Jo. The rest has been the usual 'hypocrit' etc etc . . . that is what he is expecting the mods to stop?

For one thing, while heated words maybe inevitable, but we are certainly better off without them. There are other ways to make a point. But I guess it’s our nature, as I see it everyday. The cleaner here makes a blunder. Omo girl wastes no time in telling him what a clueless dolt he is. It comes to my attention and I ask her if her objective was simply to shame him or help him avoid the mistake in future. Besides, it is one thing to call someone a hypocrite in a conversation, but another thing to open thread after thread just to highlight it. That is probably what he finds disconcerting and it’s called bullying. (Not that there is much mods can realistically do about that sort of thing, just trying to clarify things and put them in perspective. I think he is going to have to devise his own way of handling things.)

JeSoul: Lol . . . ah, I think you are. I'm with Tonye on this . . . a lot of this is much ado about nothing.

It’s not when you are the victim. Seen the British horror movie, "The Tormented"? Doesn’t capture my point but gives an idea.

Howdy JeSoul

JeSoul:
Long story. The fact I'm a mod does not mean I cannot have an opinion.
Okay we have heard you.
Are you seriously complaining about being 'insulted'? seriously? please remove the log from your eyes. You yourself have offered up 'insults' and 'attacks' on others as well. We should only 'act' when it is you who is offended? Respect others and they will return the favor. Don't expect the mods to 'bail you out' of your own mess. It is not a coincidence even atheist posters like homer and Mazaje never get 'attacked' in this section. They are model citizens that many christians here can learn from.

And you keep talking about "you've complained to the mods and they did nothing" . . . really? please kindly reproduce any messages or posts on the mod thread that we did not respond to. Playing the victim card here and expecting sympathy will not cut it at all. Try something else.

I think I should say this in response to your post above. I am personally not aware he has hounded anyone, revealed their real names, or plastered the content of their private exchanges on threads – maybe I missed those threads. But my understanding of this whole business is that he is persecuted by some of the Christians because they fear his brand of gospel poses a danger to the flock of Jesus Christ – something that does not apply to Mazaje or Thehomer that you mentioned. That is the point Deep Sight appears to have missed in his defence of Joagbaje and it is worth highlighting. For me, the question that then arises is if the methods adopted will change or bring any solution to the situation, in fact, whether they will do any good. Say, a newly converted Christian comes to nairaland and the first thing he comes across is this. Would he have been more edified if he saw a thread titled "Joagbaje’s Views Examined in Light of Scripture", and then a scripture-by-scripture rebuttal of “heresy” is attempted? I might be told this has been done in the past, but sorry, I have seen much more insults than anything else directed at him. Of course, I perfectly understand that conversations can get heated and hot words used. But calling someone a "hypocrite" or an "offspring of viper" is different from resorting to certain low methods to try to destroy his character - or is it e-character?

And, of course, I don’t buy any attempt to pass off government college burden-house type bullying as a small matter. But maybe I’m one of the oversensitive ones.

Thanks, M_Nwankwo.

InesQor:
Thanks, MyJoe. You just highlighted ONE of my concerns with m_nwankwo's post. There are many, I don't even know where to start from.

Thanks, InesQor. Welcome back.

I thoroughly enjoyed that exchange you had with Deep Sight earlier in thread. He and me also debated something similar in the past, although the main issue then was whether the fisherman or the market woman should be blamed for the poisoned fish that now excites the rectum, as he and me both agreed that justification will not be denied you for paying tithe, going to the mosque or believing everything in the Bible. Even in that discussion when these two issues were separated, we still saw things quite differently. I guess it's an interesting subject. Certainly an interesting read here.

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=686094.msg8522324#msg8522324 date=1308132484]All we have to do is to live accordingly to the laws of God. If we do, then we will gradually be able to sense the protection around us ,[/quote]*nodes*

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=686094.msg8522827#msg8522827 date=1308137137]Thus the reason for the increase in the population of the earth is that souls are incarnated from these intervening planes as well as hell into our earth. The fall of man came with it sexual immorality. This lust is like a draw bridge through which souls find there way to earth. Without immorality, souls in the region of hell will not be able to incarnate on earth. A lot of discussants have talked about poo in our world and they may find that more than half of the present population of our planet came from hell and it is not suprising that they carryout activities prevalent in realms of hell. Thus our planet has become a foothold for debased souls who found there way here through the lustful propensities of women and men.[/quote]But these shockingly heartless species of people we see around aren’t necessarily born to the lustful and good people to those in “holy” matrimony.

phxc:
Rubbish analogy---- It wasn't time for the tree in question to bear fruit so cursing it was at best a misjudgment and at worse, abuse of power. If he was so hungry, the prudent thing he should have done was command figs to appear and eat to his fill.

Also, equating figs to Christians misses the point. As Christians, it is expected of you to bear fruits all the time but a fig tree has no such duties. It relies on seasons, therefore, there are times you wouldn't find fruits on it. So if Jesus wanted to make a point about Christians bearing fruit always, he chose the wrong medium.

Flawless reasoning here.

But Jesus was most likely beyond this. You will find some other not-so-edifying matters in the gospel accounts. Without a doubt, it's not everything written about the life of Jesus in the Bible that actually took place.

@M_Nwankwo

Thanks for your, as usual, illuminating response.

Joagbaje:
@Jesoul

As a moderator, I expect you to be neutral , but the bias you show is not healthy. Firstly I didn't use the word "I raise the dead" secondly, it is inconsequential if I did use it. What I think I said was something like " God raised a dead through me" or so.  I wasn't the one who laid hands on her directly, but I prayed with the person. A simple prayer of intercession, that God should grant her opportunity to be saved. I supplied the number of the brother who laid hands on her on my instruction. And she came back to life. There have been numerous cases all over the world of dead being raised. Why should Christians find it hard to believe that the name of Jesus can bring dead to life. Why would I lie for Jesus , wont it be a sin against me. He won't commend me for lying to praise his name. The testimony is true. And as a moderator,if you don't believe. Simply investigate. But if you won't investigate, it will be wrong and bias of you to be taking sides.

I don't have multiple ids, I have only one which is "joagbaje" . I have used posted with Mabel before and I explained and apologised . We used same system and she didn't log out.  We all have different ways of expression, and it is glaring that I am not Mabel.  That's about years ago.it could have happen to any one.    It's not only once  I had such experience. If I visit a town where I have a Nairaland friend , we hook up, and if I find your system on, I may just browse, just for browsing sake and before I know it I have responded to a post,forgetting this is not my home. I have had three experiences like that but no one knew because , I modified it when I realised.

The I.D I deliberately used was akhozem. It was a friend in benin . And it was an acronym of his edo name. I don't even remember the names now except I check the SMS he sent .

Some of my friends had asked me to change I.D. Because of the incessant attacks on my personality. Which are against Nairaland rules. People revealing my I.D, Location ,etc. Someone going to my face book to publish people's pictures  from my foto album. It was obvious they want to silence me, or force me out of this forum. I had refused to change my I.D . Because it would be as though they won. I was initially counting on moderators like you for action. But you turned blind eyes. I don't know why.

This is what Nairaland rules says:

If you moderators are relied upon to bring sanity to forum and you allow nuisance and support it, what do we have left.

Akhozem offered I should use his ID since I refused to open new one. The privacy attack was getting too much. I didn't know what I may expect next. If someone will come and snap me unclothed in my bathroom and post it here. So I decided to use akhozem . Especially after t TONYE . Did his own exposure on me . I still didn't know his intention.

Akhozem style is different from mine. The first post I  made with akhozem was very obvoious. Someone immediately asked if It was joagbaje, conscience won't make me deny, but it was difficult to admit either. So i didn't answer yes or no. I used akhozem to praise joagbaje post because of that incidence. I wanted to take his eyes off me. That's the only wrong I see I might have done.   There is no big deal in admitting I opened new ID.  If I had . It'ssimpler to explain that way. But I didn't open the ID . I took it over. That's the truth. And I was never comfortable with it. Because I didn't have freedom. I couldn't quote scriptures .

What about the forum rules being broken ,all these years which prompted my action. Why wasnt anything anything done in response to all my complains ?

 
Without banning anybody,If the highlighted above had been given as a response to my complains it would have meant a lot. All I got was silence and moderator praising someone for harassing me.

Just take it easy, perhaps. Nairaland is an amplification of the outside world – a jungle where rules abound but matter for naught. I don’t think anyone deserves to have a nervous breakdown because of a forum. You may want to sit back and re-assess your participation on this forum, then. Whatever you do, don’t open a new ID – your first post will scream your name in its four syllables!

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=686094.msg8517532#msg8517532 date=1308065384]Spiritual guides see these fruits and by guidance help to bring about circumstances in which the recipients reap the fruits.[/quote]Would you be so kind to explain the above? Who are these guides capable of doing this?

^^^ Not sure I fully understand it, but if it's as you say, I guess the successors are just trying to fill a vacuum that has got to be filled.

Thank you for your response above.

Hmm. Article reminds me of Trevayne, by Robert Ludlum.

JeSoul:
I do honestly believe that more recently, western nations do hold themselves to a higher standard - such that there are even people/organizations here fighting against Obama's drone attacks against jihadists in Yemen. Imagine that! lol. As a collective group, there is so much balance, that it is darn near impossible for blatant injustice to go unchallenged - even when it is directed at terrorists. That isn't just a different kind of morality - it is superior.

Yeah. It's impossible to miss the higher standards to which the Western nations hold themselves nowadays.

JeSoul: How can a nation that claims to have any kind of sense allow the jailing of a man for merely using a president's toilet?   How can Syria and co dare to point at the US when they are hunting down and shooting teachers and workers for merely participating in a political demonstration?

It's strange with these people. Strange. You just wonder what kinds of human beings these are.

JeSoul: You can ramble anytime to me Myjoe, I'm learning a lot from you.

Many thanks for your kindness.

JeSoul: Excellent points and I tend to agree . . . except on the ratio .
Perhaps not. But the recent news of violence and clashes (some religious) that weren't there even thru the uprising should cause one to pause. We know they're tussling for power wherever they can find it, perhaps it may not be 'fielding a candidate' but I have no doubt they already have a calculated agenda, call me crazy lol.

I think you are reading them with the specs of the 80's. The Muslim Brotherhood seems to have evolved a lot over the years, much like the Justice and Development Party, Turkey's present ruling party, which also started out as an Islamist party. The religious conflicts in Egypt are shameful, but I guess they follow the pattern in any Arab country where a long serving dictator gets deposed - all buried troubles crawl out of their holes, as the problems were never actually addressed, just repressed through sheer force by the police state. I am sure things will simmer down and the Copts can live in peace. I am not aware the MB has anything to do with it, though.

JeSoul: Isreal will continue to act like the man who has been violated and done wrong, therefore I do not expect them to concede and offer up an olive branch - they would expect that to come from the one who first fired at them. And they can afford to remain stubborn because they are more superior - militarily - than their opponent. Meanwhile Palestinians continue to point to Israel's 'crimes' committed while 'protecting' themselves and refuse to accept na dem first start wahala and offer up an apology to soften Israel's heart. . . and so we're stuck in an endless cycle of puffed up egos.

I agree about operating from a superior position - guess anyone would act the same. But it gets tangled when we try establish who fired first. The Palestinians are landless and condemned to be refugees. They seem for the most part the harassed, fired at ones. But what you said above is the reason mediators are needed. Maybe one day they will let someone do it the way Egypt and Israel let Carter back then. This one is much more knotty, though. Still hoping . . .

snowdrops:
guy you no get work o.

Learn to laugh a bit.

Katsumoto – Minister for Finance
Ekt_bear – Minister for National Planning
Sagamite – Minister for Ethics, Privileges and Anti-corruption
190 – Minister for Women Affairs and Woman Resources
Ileke-Idi – Minister for Education
Beaf – Minister for Information and Strategy
JeSoul – Ambassador to the US
Seun – Minister for Science and Technology
Jarus – Minister for Youths and Social Development
Aisha – Minister for Social Welfare
Tpia – Minister for Special Duties
Cap28 – Chairman, committee to probe the highly destructive activities of UFOs in Nigeria
Shoot2kill – Minister for Defence
Ibime – Central Bank Governor
Kobojunkie – Minister for Justice and Attorney General

Missy_B – Minister for Food and General Welfare
Dominique - Minister for Health
Morpheus24 – Minister for Foreign Affairs
Becomrich – Minister for Cooperation and Integration in Africa
Ezeuche – Minister for Ethnic Harmony and Integration
Alloy/emeka – Minister for Diaspora and Culture
Honerico – Minister for Sports
Zstranger – Senior Special Adviser on War
Mukaina – Secretary to the Government of the Federation
Debosky – Minister of the Interior
Jakumo – Minister in waiting
Rokiatu – First Lady

^^^
Actually I meant to say Burqa. I think our omo girl will look trendier in this and I am sure you prefer your women in it, as it's much more obedient than the hijab or niqab, both of which you mistakenly praised earlier, plus it'll be more effective at deterring the more hardened despoilers:

Greetings M_Nwankwo

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=139983.msg8492670#msg8492670 date=1307706146]If we are shown how to eat, how to breathe and how to drink from infancy, then almost all the present illnesses that torment us today will cease to exist.[/quote]The is the principle behind Yoga.

[quote author=m_nwankwo]A blessed herbalist intuitively or consciously  sees the energy spectrum of his patients and tailore his prescriptions to suit the particular individual.[/quote]This appears to be the principle behind Ayurvedic medicine. But they don't just rely on intuition anymore. Over thousands of years quizzes have been formulated to enable an individual determine his own energy spectrum or something like that and work out what suits him.

Tried it once at the Bar Beach. I dream small sha.

Sweetnecta:
^^^^^^^^^^^ MashaAllah. Allahu Akbaru Kabira.

omo girl, i see you in hijab. Allah will make my hope you a reality; for you and your husband and future children and all your folks.

Yeah. But let's make it a niqab, Alhaji. That one is purer and omo girl JeSoul will probably prefer it.

Deep Sight:
Sometimes we think too much and thus think nothing. If we look around even on earth, we should find that the natural laws which are the manifestation of the will of God in nature does not give a hoot about all these artificial constructs. If a bud-hist sows yam in a fertile soil, he will reap yam. The same goes for an atheist and the theist. In an earthquake or epidemic or accident, both theists and atheists are saved and killed. A deeper look on why these things are the way they are may open our eyes to the working of God. [/color]

Send that into everyone's handheld device with a note to read and meditate on it after dinner.

Pastor AIO:
I want to bring this thread up again because of a conversation I had not too long ago with a JW. He was against the use of drugs. He said it was sorcery and God hates it. I found it hard to argue with him because nowhere in the bible could I find an example of someone using drugs to heal themselves. and then he quoted scripture for me.

Sure it was a JW? Or perhaps he was talking about sorcery and got the word drug mixed up? ALL the ones I know use medicinal drugs and encourage their use.