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Christianity Etc › Re: Religulous? by MyJoe: 11:58am On Jan 12, 2010

Thanks for your response. Will be in touch.

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=375908.msg5296446#msg5296446 date=1263257096]A materialist will not be able to recognise God because the spiritual faculty is completely suffocated by the brain. But if the materialist is honest or sincere, then certain deep experiences will be placed on his path. Such experiences come as deep emotional shocks which may manifest as intense suffering or misfortune as well as unexpected blessings. The psychic shocks as a result of intense suffering or joy can temporarly free the soul from the hard grip of the brain, allowing it to look beyound matter, for some that is the beginning of a turn around from materialism to the search for his creator. Stay blessed.[/quote]It is as if someone whispered something about me into your ear while you were typing one of the sentences in the above paragraph! I won't say which sentence now. Note that I have never been a materialist, though. But I have always taken a materialist approach to day-to-day life. I hope readers appreciate the difference.

Foreign Affairs › Re: Mpele And The Myth Of The Superior Nigger by MyJoe(op): 11:52am On Jan 12, 2010

Mpele:
What baffles me the most about Nigerians is why there are over a million of them in South Africa if we're such bad people! The fact is most South Africans, don't even know some of the countries in Africa, we generally don't care about what happes in Nigeria or Sudan!
I've people saying Nigerians are just cocky, but no I differ, I think they have this tendency of thinkin that they are the superior black race because they have more degrees than brains! If then have University degrees is the best thing a man can have, then we must see the results of that! What your country can boast about is black on black violence, muslims v christians! At least with us it was black v white!

People must not use the xenophobic attacks as a reason for hating us! Africans have always dispised us, for wat reason I don't know! I mean we never even want to visit your countries.
People have a choice to choose who to live with, it is our right to choose not live amongst other Africans, that is why U'll never see a South African relocating to Senegal or Nigeria!

Nigerians have a tendecy of talking about our economy being controlled by whites, so what! those whites are South Africans! This is cheap talk, there are now so many black multi national companies in SA. If then it is a bad thing for whites to control the economy of SA, then all Nigerians must leave in protest of this.

Some are even so silly to be happy the SA have one of the highest HIV rate in the world! The this shows stupidity, because even in Nigeria HIV is there! We are doing things for our selves we don't need anybody's help, that's why we stay home to make our country work, that is why some of we're gonna take leave and become volunteers during the first world cup in Africa, which U tried to bid for, only to realise later that U don't have the capacity to stage a tournament.

What Nigerians are good at is to invade other people's countries, then end up languishing in their jails. My advice is actions speak louder than words, what U could start by doing is to clean up that slum U call a city (Lagos)

OMG! Did you write this? Good luck!

Christianity Etc › Re: Religion And Rationality by MyJoe(op): 6:58pm On Jan 11, 2010

JeSoul:
Absolutely but that must be put in context and perspective - there are those are people who willingly and willfully reject God - and even do so sincerely sometimes. They are in a different class from people who could not see or understand anything beyond what they were exposed to, and in sincerity of heart, lived as best they could. See this portion of Rom 2 "Those people who don't know about God's Law will still be punished for what they do wrong. And the Law will be used to judge everyone who knows what it says. God accepts those who obey his Law, but not those who simply hear it. Some people naturally obey the Law's commands, even though they don't have the Law. This proves that the conscience is like a law written in the human heart. And it will show whether we are forgiven or condemned, when God appoints Jesus Christ to judge everyone's secret thoughts, just as my message says."

As you alluded to, the man who lives in Amazon jungle has a vastly different understanding of the world compared to the man living in New York city. We've all had different and varying degrees of knowledge and limited exposure to truth. The beauty of the verse in Romans is that in spite of that, and for those who did not have the opportunity to learn about God, their conscience will serve as their law. I hope this does sufficient justice to the question?

I have no problem with this.

JeSoul:
In regards to the man subscribing only to the material . . . well, I believe that to acknowledge and recognize that there is a God, this knowledge is inherent in each man, programmed if you will, and to reject and supress that knowledge of His existence take a conscious, concerted and even rebelious effort. To strip oneself of that knowledge, is to reject God and not cool.

This is true of just about anyone born in Nigeria. It is untrue of a many of the kids raised in China or communist-era Czechoslovakia. Here you have state propaganda promoting materialism and many homes continue from the where the state stops. Such kids take to heart the Freudian statement that believing in God is a childhood fancy which mankind will eventually grow out of. They laugh when you talk about God or demons.

Sleep well.

Christianity Etc › Re: Religion And Rationality by MyJoe(op): 6:47pm On Jan 11, 2010

@ Deep Sight:
There was a time when everyone in Europe believed in God and went to church. Everyone believed God created the world in six twenty-four hour days and that a snake gave a fruit to a woman which messed up the world. Then came people like Shelley, Byron, Marx, Nietzsche and the others. As recently as 1811 Shelley was expelled from Cambridge to doing atheism! Today Europe has moved further on. An atheist can become Prime Minister of almost any European country today. And the Europeans have created far better societies than any other part of the world - not even the US with all its technology and money can compete in terms of general standard of living. It is my thoughts that if things continue the way they are at the moment, in another 250 years the USA, Latin America and even Africa will catch on and only a fringe of society will do religion and God. On Karma and materialism, I am still trying to figure out these things and the facts I just stated rob me of the capability to answer your question. How does Karma with reincarnation bear on our apprehension of God? How come the most most advanced people are the "godless" ones? I don't know. I would like to hear your thoughts on it, though. So I will only repeat the one I asked earlier: Is it not possible that we will be judged on our sincerity?

_{It is possible of course that something will happen to kick off a reversal of mankind's post-spiritual era.}

Christianity Etc › Re: Religion And Rationality by MyJoe(op): 6:19pm On Jan 11, 2010

^^^ Thanks. But I don't think this answers or invalidates my question. It seems disbelief in God and a rejection of the non-material often go together. I hope JeSoul is reading and will respond.

Christianity Etc › Re: Religion And Rationality by MyJoe(op): 6:11pm On Jan 11, 2010

^^^ Perhaps, but I don't know for certain. I have always argued that people ought to concern themselves with these things and make a search. I argued it on the Deist Perspectives thread. However, there are people raised in China and Eastern Europe with the mindset that science is the only god there can possibly be. Such a person does not dream or have any revelations - he wouldn't know what to do with them, anyway. When you approach him to talk about a god, he sees you the way a typical Nigerian kid would respond if you come to talk about materialism. He believes his only mission on earth is to improve it. He lives and dies with this belief, feeling fulfilled. Given JeSoul's clearly stated position on this forum that people generally believe that which accords with their experiences, a situation she has no problem with, is this fellow not justified?

Christianity Etc › Re: Religion And Rationality by MyJoe(op): 5:51pm On Jan 11, 2010

@Jesoul
Your honesty in putting this point across make it hard to argue. Given this position of yours, have you considered the possibility, then, that we will be judged on our sincerity? Which questions the assumption implied in this position held by you and M Nwankwo:

Thus no man can go astray or be incabable of recognising God except he wilfully choose to do so. Only when a human spirit by his own free decision choose to block these faculties of his spirit is the recognition of God made impossible.
more of the bible in there "For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened"
[quote]

[/quote]Why must not knowing or believing in God then be a sin for someone who (1) never had a revelation (2) did not "search" because he did not see the need, and that because he honestly believed in materialism?

Christianity Etc › Re: Religulous? by MyJoe: 5:21pm On Jan 11, 2010

If I may come in.

Thanks M Nwankwo for your deep insights. I have listened to Grail Message programmes on the radio off and on for some years. But it was not until I got disillusioned with Christianity and temporarily slipped into agnosticism and later deism that I began to take interest in EVERYTHING (including Christianity!). I read book one and I intend to do two and three shortly. I jotted down many questions and perhaps I will ask for your email sometime. I do share Deep Sight's concerns about the Trinity - I guess due to my previous religious experiences which are very similar to his - but I won't go into that now. What I am particularly interested in this:

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=375908.msg5287332#msg5287332 date=1263138233]I refer you to the lecture "Stranger". If your eyes are open you may then see the radiation connetion between the HolySpirit, Parsifal and AbdruShin and that may help to clear many a puzzle.[/quote]I have read something similar from you in one or two other threads. I believe you realise the vast majority of human beings do not have these "spiritual insights". I am one of those people who do not have these experiences. That is, people who have taken a materialist or rational approach to life all their life. How does such a person read a book a get spiritual insight into it? If I sound lost, it's because I am.

Deep Sight:
1. God is, yes? If this is the case can gender be ascribed to God? I have no problems with God being described as “the father” but my concern is –

2. Why are the only two “emanative elements” of God – (Jesus, and as claimed by the Grail Message, Abd Rushin) both male? On an esoteric philosophical view, it would have seemed more natural to me if there was one male and one female: as a sign of the duality inherent in divinity and existence of which all that we see is a reflection. Is God somehow averse to or removed from the feminine? Why is it that these prime elements of God are always said to be incarnated on earth as males? Could this not be a sign of the human culture of a male dominated society seeping into dogma in the form of supposed male scions of God?

There is something about the Queen of Heaven in the Message. (I am yet to figure out if she is the same woman later referred to as consoling the other messenger when silence fell over the realms above at the murder of Christ.) Given the above, I think the concern about duality is addressed in the Message.

Christianity Etc › Re: Religion And Rationality by MyJoe(op): 3:20pm On Jan 11, 2010

VALIDATOR:
IMO, it is not.

Are you religious?

Jokes Etc › Re: Al Sharpton Blasts Tiger Woods For Lack Of Mistress Diversity by MyJoe: 3:14pm On Jan 11, 2010

RSA:
The Rev. Al Sharpton held a press conference today to blast Tiger Woods for the lack of diversity among his mistresses. Sharpton claims that the lack of African-American women among Woods’ harem will have a negative affect on the black community, specifically young black girls.

“Why is it that a man who calls himself black can’t bring himself to cheat on his wife with a black woman?” said Sharpton, speaking to a group of supporters in Harlem . “What does it say to young black girls everywhere when you pass them over? Shame on you, Tiger Woods. What would your daddy say?”

Sharpton, who has long championed taking black women as mistresses, said that today’s black athletes need to stop neglecting black women when it comes to extramarital affairs, and should follow the examples of positive black role models such as Jesse Jackson and Martin Luther King, Jr., both of whom cheated on their wives with black women. Sharpton also stressed that cheating with African-American women would help the black community financially by giving black girls the chance to sell their stories to tabloids and gossip magazines.

Added Sharpton, “I’m not asking you to not cheat on your wives, I’m just asking you to give back to your own community.”

Christianity Etc › Re: Religion And Rationality by MyJoe(op): 3:04pm On Jan 11, 2010

Not seen that film. I found Pope rather a bit late. Thought Milton and Dante were the end.

Foreign Affairs › Mpele And The Myth Of The Superior Nigger by MyJoe(op): 3:01pm On Jan 11, 2010

Mpele and the Myth of the Superior Nigger

Reading the posts of Mpele and, particularly, his compatriot RSA, you would think that South Africa is indeed some Canaan land. Mpele, truth to say, intersperses his posts with some refreshing nuggets of honesty – I suspect he has someone who taps his shoulders when he is typing. RSA, on the other hand, does not suffer from such weaknesses.

This view is pervasive among South Africans. To them, they are the lucky ones, the favoured Africans. They live on the European patch of Africa and that, in their mind, confers superiority. Issues for which the country, like every other in the Third World, is renown, such as rampant corruption, police brutality, crime and shocking levels of poverty and unemployment, are fall off the radar while this myth is being celebrated. This notion is not a novelty. I recall Pieter Botha (RSA President from 1984 to 1989), one of the worst of the country’s apartheid overlords, saying to African leaders back then that the black people of his country have the benefit of a far higher standard of living than those in the so-called free countries. That statement, of course, was egregious nonsense, but the African leaders believed it. Africans believed it. And black South Africans believed it. Today Botha is long dead but his words have since taken on lives of their own and live on in the outlook of ~~Azanians~~ black South Africans. As if whatever the country achieves will not always be seen as the achievement of the whites and the world will ever respect Africans for it.

This phenomenon is called the myth of the super nigger and is far from being the sole property of the South Africans. If you really want to experience the myth of the super black man who is singularly gifted with intelligence, ebullience, and industry, you ask the Nigerian. “Anywhere in the world, we are never afraid to ask for our rights,” they would say. “We are the only Africans who look whites in the face and talk to them.” And, in case you haven’t heard, “we are the giant of Africa.” As if all their putative boldness, intelligence, industry, and err… giantness have stopped them from celebrating those who steal from them; or improved their infrastructure which places them in the great company of war ravaged countries like Sierra Leone, Liberia and Congo; or stopped their country from that which makes you shake your head when you consider its potentials and missed opportunities, an embarrassment to its thinking citizens.

The third group of people most likely to vociferate this chaff is the African-Americans. Of course. They live in the Unired States, “God’s own country”. To these special ones, three are three grades of blacks: the ones in Africa, the place worse than death where people are yet to catch sight of electricity; the other blacks in the West, such as those in the Caribbean; and, finally, the super blacks, the Americans. One of them even wrote that he was happy his grandfather was enslaved. It doesn’t matter, of course, that they are the harassed underdogs in their wonderful country, the average male of which race is more likely to end up in jail than a university. And you wonder if they think “cold-shouldering” other blacks will help them catch up with the whites.

There are indications that the Ghanaians are catching the bug. I have heard some interesting statements from some of their nationals lately. You see, in recent years polls have been placing that country ahead of everyone, including the likes of Nigeria. “A country on the march.” “A middle income country.” “An African success story.” To complement all these is the fiction about NEPA (whatever it is called there) not having “taken light” for 10 years. Who won’t feel like the super nigger coming from such a land of milk and honey?

By why should those sitting squarely at the bottom of world ladder be the ones fighting rather than building bridges? Can it not stand in the way of progress since it can hinder cross country cooperation in the effort to uplift the continent?

“You are beautiful for an African!” I guess it’s just human nature. But I sometimes enjoy reading Mpele, although I am a tad surprised his signature is in Afrikaans. Funny chap.

Christianity Etc › Religion And Rationality by MyJoe(op): 1:55pm On Jan 11, 2010

Religion and Rationality - I am thinking with my fingers, but what do you think?

I listen to late night radio – those shows where you call to talk to an Agony Aunt about a man you have gone out with for ten years yet has refused to propose marriage what should you do?, or where future husbands who are looking for future wives call to meet future wives who are looking for future husbands who are looking for future wives. One thing that never ceases to amaze me is that people simply can’t define what they want in a partner. After the common “tall, dark and handsome”, what you often hear is “He must be God fearing.” “She should be nice.” “He must be working.” Very rarely do you hear something you might hear and say “oh, that excludes me” like, “She should have a sense of humour, be ready to move and be able to watch a sunset.” More seriously, I think that if the wisest men that ever walked the planet were brought together and asked to enlighten us at to what brings a man and a woman together, what keeps them together and what breaks them apart, they would be unable to help us.

And the same would apply to how we come to accept a set of beliefs, discard them for a new set, then discard everything, and later start believing again. Even though we can identify fear, self preservation and bandwagon as some of the motivations behind religionism, these do not suffice to explain the religion phenomenon.

You see, a kid of six in Kano wielding a stick can control a hundred cattle. A barely literate “prophet” armed with a few catch phrases, a little charisma and Gideon’s Bible can get some of the most intelligent men kneeling down, standing up and falling down at his command. (No, you don’t need to have read Machiavelli or Greene. These things come naturally, enough.)

It seems reason goes on recess at the approach of religion (and patriotism!). Here at Nairaland you see people who clearly decided to believe something and then started looking for ways to validate it. It ought to be the other way round! Nowhere is this more noticeable than efforts to present the Trinity as rational or to fit into the Bible what it does not say. I read in one thread that Adam was not the first man in the book of Genesis. This even though it is clear the two separate verses cited repeated the creation of the same man and all the writers of the Bible, including Jesus’ apostles and the cerebral St Paul, clearly wrote with the perspective that Adam was the first man. And UFOs are in the Bible! How about the Muslims who go to the ridiculous extent of ascribing to the Bible what it does not say just to discredit it, while presenting the Quran as the most illuminating authority on science which contains the blueprint for space exploration, DNA mapping and nanotechnology, the quintessential guide spurned by scientists at mankind’s peril?

It would be refreshing candid, therefore, if we sometimes hear statements like: “Sorry, I can’t really explain the Trinity to you rationally and the biblical support for it is tenuous and without consensus. But I accept it because it is what the church teaches and as a Christian I have no doubt that the church is guided by the Holy Spirit.”

But that is an unrealistic expectation. I do not think it is possible to be a good follower of a religion while maintaining a truly rational approach. A religious person who attempts it with a high degree of honesty will likely end up in a situation known in psychology as cognitive dissonance. He may soon give up the religion, altogether. And so what religious people do is to accept by faith, paper over the craters and move on. A non-religious person might find this hard to comprehend, but it really is simple enough: [i]since the religion is of God, everything it says must be right. God can’t be wrong. [/i]This fantastic short circuit is what is spectacularly responsible for stopping the believer from taking a dogma-by-dogma approach. Religion, therefore, is not rational. Once you accept it you follow it dogmatically. “We” become right, “they” become wrong. Otherwise you become a bad follower of the faith. You may recall the spontaneous consternation in the African dioceses when the cerebral and rational Rowan Williams was appointed the spiritual leader of the Anglicans.

There will always be conflict between the literalists (like Archbishop Akinola) and the non-literalists (like Archbishop Williams). Truth to tell, the idea that the holy books were written to be reinterpreted by intellectuals is disingenuous. It would be more honest if religious leaders told us two things: (1) The holy books were clearly written to be given a literal interpretation. (2) But the times have overtaken them and such literal interpretation would take the book closer to the Neanderthals than contemporary society. This would leave us with two options: (1) Disband the religions as not having originated truly from an all-knowing, unchanging God. (2) Say something like: “Well, prophets wrote it in the language of their day so it could be comprehended. Our critical task today is to adapt it to our times and make it useful. We know this will not be easy since there are contradictions and different people are likely to interpret things differently. We appeal for patience from all.”

The absence of rationality, though, is not necessarily an indictment of religion. As I asserted in the first paragraph, we often take some of life’s most important decisions irrationally. We are emotional, not rational. Alexander Pope, in the poem Essay on Man, which I consider the greatest literary work written as yet outside of the Bible, asserts:

Two principles in human nature reign;
Self-love, to urge, and reason, to restrain;
Nor this a good, nor that a bad we call,
Each works its end, to move or govern all:
And to their proper operation still
Ascribe all Good, to their improper, Ill.

I am just thinking with my fingers. But what do you think? Is religion compatible with rationality?

Christianity Etc › Re: Heaven Can Wait by MyJoe: 4:02pm On Jan 08, 2010

@JeSoul
Thank you.

@K17
You may want to read some of the other atheists on this forum, such as Mazaje, Toneyb and Wirinet, etc. When they tell you you are deluded they, at least, give you a brilliant argument why they say so. It will help you. Cheers.

@e-mail
I know where I am. Read my back posts and you will know too. I challenged K17's position because I think it is inappropriate to go from thread to thread calling people "deluded" without offering anything worth reading. You have seen Kumuyi covert from atheism to Christianity, you say. I have also seen people convert from Christianity to Islam, Buddhism and atheism. No matter what you believe, you ought to realise there is a 1/1000000 chance of it being wrong. Either that or we are all right. I believe in the most important thing which nobody can be wrong about, though: love.

Christianity Etc › Re: Mind-body Problem by MyJoe: 2:15pm On Jan 08, 2010

I read all you wrote earlier. In speaking of superfluity I meant that the soul would not be necessary if all it does is what the brain does quite adequately.

I do not reject the dual nature of man. From your last post, where we disagree is this:

easylogic:
As i said earlier, the Soul in Theism or Dualism is what we refer as to the person.Therefore are you asking," At what point does a baby become a person?"

It does not appear that when fertilisation takes place what is formed is a soul or possesses a soul, that which is immortal and departs from the body at death. It is mere tissue with all the works - dna and all. Fertilisation is material, what grows therefrom is material. That which is immaterial can only from without.

Christianity Etc › Re: Mind-body Problem by MyJoe: 12:58pm On Jan 08, 2010

I see easylogic ignored my questions. An embryo growing in the womb is just tissues. When he is born he takes a breath and the brain starts developing and taking in info. At what point does he acquire the soul? If the work of the soul is just "consciousness and thinking" can it not be argued that it is superfluous since the brain does consciousness and thinking according to science? I believe the soul theory cannot be demonstrated with a reasonable degree of success while repudiating the doctrine of reincarnation. I was hoping easylogic will show me the error in this thinking. I guess his purpose is merely to show us we have a dual nature, and not the nature of the dual nature.

Thus what really does the soul do, ? Maybe some other thread in the future will go further.

Christianity Etc › Re: Heaven Can Wait by MyJoe: 4:37pm On Jan 06, 2010

Many thanks, JeSoul. I read it. Your humility is exemplary.

Christianity Etc › Re: Heaven Can Wait by MyJoe: 4:04pm On Jan 06, 2010

Kay 17:
science has served us well, there is a great deal to be learnt. therefore it is imperative to throw off all those shackles and yokes of religion. there are little scientific truths, but what we have learnt so far, do not point that God exists. then why burden ourselves with such a prejudice that affects our objectivity.

I agree that religion often breeds prejudice. But you have simply concluded that God does not exist, your only reason being that it is not scientific! What can be more prejudiced? I am skeptical about all religions, myself, but I realise that, as demonstrated by Alexander Pope in what I consider the greatest literary work of all time outside of the Bible, his poem, "Essay on Man", my perceptions are limited. Everything is worth investigating. I think you should ask yourself the questions I posed above before prejudicially taking a lazy man's route and dismissing things because they sound far fetched or you cannot comprehend them.

Kay 17:
@JeSeoul, how did you arrive at your botched conclusion that God exists.

How did you arrive at yours that he doesn't? That is what you have failed to answer. You have no ground, therefore, to call her deluded. Assume you don't know and proceed from there by yourself - that is the only non-prejudicial way. That is of course if you have not told yourself that only low-brains are religious while Einsteins like you are atheistic.

Christianity Etc › Re: Heaven Can Wait by MyJoe: 3:17pm On Jan 06, 2010

Kay 17:
religion is built on the weak poles of belief. it said to infallible and coupled with superstition, uses fear and ignorance to captivate its victims. its has generally no basis in science. it is the same in round the world, but in different forms. the muslims believe that heaven is an abode and a reward for its blind followers and it is filled with 72 virgins for eternal sex.
the Christians believe it is that the dead enjoy eternal life while dwelling in the clouds. also, that there is an abundance of gold.
if these stories are examined carefully, each religion's heaven is a perfect world where their view of perfection dwells. thus, religion is a dangerous escapist avenue where the human mind shelters against the cold stare of reality. every man desires eternity and it is hard to imagine an end to life.

I do agree with most of what you say here. But should the fantastic nature of religious beliefs lead us dismiss religion in its entirety, and the idea of God? Have you investigated the religions to see if it is the practitioners that have corrupted them? Before you dismiss every idea of the paranormal, have you investigated them, spoken to people who claim to have had experiences that cannot be explained by science?

Do we really know that miracles have never happened? Can everything be explained by science?

Christianity Etc › Re: Mind-body Problem by MyJoe: 3:02pm On Jan 06, 2010

@ Deep Sight

Awesome post! Thanks for the intervention. I am still reading to see how opening poster will demonstrate where this super-organic, extra-material mind comes from if not from without.

Christianity Etc › Re: Heaven Can Wait by MyJoe: 2:38pm On Jan 06, 2010

@K17
Care to share how you came to the certainty that these are delusions?

Christianity Etc › Re: Mind-body Problem by MyJoe: 2:29pm On Jan 06, 2010

easylogic:
Tudor,when i speak of a person's stream of consciousnes, i am not talking of character or acquired behaviour traits.These ofcourse help to mould our personality.What i'm talking about is Self awareness.

Good! But there is a fundamental point you have not addressed. At what stage, and HOW, does this self-awareness commence since an embryo growing in the womb obviously does not possess any? I think there are only two possibilities:
(1) The personality came from without
(2) It was learnt
or
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . .

Christianity Etc › Re: Mind-body Problem by MyJoe: 12:17pm On Jan 06, 2010

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=376520.msg5259038#msg5259038 date=1262774494]Me thinks who you are is shaped by your experiences and what you've been taught through life. All these which are stored in the brain.

In Such a scenario the brain will construct with whatever memories and experience available to it in that reworked brain and make something of it.

Whether the end result would be a sane or extremely crazy individual is a whole 'noda matter.[/quote]This is a sensible way of looking at the matter, unless easylogic believes in reincarnation in which case the soul personality or human spirit has experiences from past incarnations recorded in the "back brain" or "small brain".

Christianity Etc › Re: *~ Davidylan Voted The Religion Section Poster Of The Year *~ Congrats!! by MyJoe: 11:53am On Jan 06, 2010

Pastor AIO:
Menh, I just dey see this. At least I got nominated (surprising!) even though I ru po-ed. What was the criteria for the nominations and who nominated?

Chief criterion was longevity. Nominations were done the way they do it for the UN SecGen job - by the Security Council rather than the General Assembly.

Pastor AIO:
I wished I knew about this earlier, I would have voted for myself and campaigned for more votes. How I go carry last? This na disgrace.

Block voting. No amount of campaigning would have saved you. Remember the PDP presidential nomination held at Jos in 1999? The Christian majority voted for Davidylan and the atheist-agnostic minority voted for mazaje.

Christianity Etc › Re: Heaven Can Wait by MyJoe: 10:30am On Jan 06, 2010

manmustwac:
Outside of the bible can u provide solid proof that that your imaginary Heaven actually exists? Can u provide contact details of anybody you know who passed away and is in Heaven now?

No. I can't, inside the Bible or outside of it. Now over to you and K17.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pope Leo X And His Most Infamous Declaration About Christianity!a Must Read! by MyJoe: 6:46pm On Jan 05, 2010

Krayola:
Understanding, IMO, isn't about answers, but about perspectives, and having different sets of vantage points from which to look at stuff. I think mature faith is willing to face the obvious "issues" that arise when it comes to having to believe stuff that one knows does not agree with what one's experience of reality is. When belief in God = belief in the unreasonable/irrational/superstitous etc, that is when i want nothing to do with it. I will not believe in a God that insists that I do not use faculties he has given me to find my way in this world, and to God. And any "man of God" that tells me that is the way to God will get a spit in the face from me. But that's just me.

Perhaps. For some, understanding, even as you define it, is out of the question because it is simply out of their reach. Belief in a creator-God is simple enough and most people are brought up in it. Religious dogmas are not simple. Many illiterate Africans accepted Christianity because (1) it brought what was ostensibly a superior way (stop killing twins, stop ethnic wars, stop ritual murder, medicines for your ailments, etc) and then the bandwagon effect. They could not have understood nada and did not. Now, even for sophisticated people who try to understand, who write all the exegeses you read on this Land, you find that they often have to paper over certain aspects in order to move on. If you hit on these points with them, they resort to non-sequiturs and wild analogies, pretending they understand what they are talking about. My point is that it is a moot point talking about "understanding". From my knowledge of psychology, I can adduce several reasons why people believe or accept. But ultimately, I strongly suspect that the process by which we believe or disbelieve is like the process by which a man and a woman fall in love - it cannot entirely be understood.

Krayola:
haha. . same s.h.it different toilet . I admit my post was a little cynical but the koko of the matter was that the upstart of the new church had little to do with matters of faith.

The highlighted part is spot on. Just thought I should let your readers see things in context.

Sleep well and Happy New Year!

Christianity Etc › Re: Heaven Can Wait by MyJoe: 6:19pm On Jan 05, 2010

^^^Care to share how you came to the certainty that these are delusions?

Christianity Etc › Re: If Pentecostals Ever Get The Kind Of Money And Power The Catholic Church Has. . by MyJoe: 6:15pm On Jan 05, 2010

JeSoul:
lol, funny topic . . .
If Pentecostals Ever Get The Kind Of Money And Power The Catholic Church Has . . . there would be an acute scarcity of hair gel.

If Pentecostals Ever Get The Kind Of Money And Power The Catholic Church Has . . . the only item on the church program would be "offering and tithes"

If Christians Ever Get The Kind Of Money And Power The Catholic Church Has . . . they would [s]give it back, counting it as nothing to be grasped or sought after, because they know their true treasure lies in Heaven[/s] buy up the planet, because they know their heaven lies in treasure.

Christianity Etc › Re: What Is Your Bible Infallibility Score? by MyJoe: 6:07pm On Jan 05, 2010

It's probably between 3, 4 and 5. I don't know that God ever asked anyone to write down anything but I am sure there is no such thing as absolute truth.

Christianity Etc › Re: Pope Leo X And His Most Infamous Declaration About Christianity!a Must Read! by MyJoe: 5:47pm On Jan 05, 2010

@Krayola

I agree with the spirit of what you said, but the only problem with the "understanding" you speak of is that it is subjective, and, even more serious, often elusive.

BTW, King Henry wanted a male heir, not necessarily a new bedmate. You only had to get one before the other since their culture and religion did not allow polygamy.

Christianity Etc › Re: Gospel Of Barnabas by MyJoe: 5:32pm On Jan 05, 2010

I looked up that gospel some time in the past. It is similar to another one called The Gospel according to Islam. In the gospel of Barnabas Mohammed is mentioned by name as the admirable prophet to come after Christ with a message from God. It affirms the major Islamic ideas of Jesus as a servant of God rather than a son. There many reasons to dismiss this gospel as a "fake" (where "fake" means a gospel that was not written at about the same time as the canonical ones, or one that was written by someone with a clear agenda.) For one thing, there is evidence suggesting that it was written after the 14th century, rather than the first century. One thing is the writing style. Another is its reference nine heavens, with paradise as the 10th, an idea that was propounded by Dante only in the 14th century. The oldest copies of the gospel are written in Spanish and Italian, not Latin, Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew. Some moslems have latched on to this gospel to show that Jesus preached about Mohammed. Many scholars, including some Moslem ones, are of the view that the gospel should not be taken seriously.

Foreign Affairs › Re: South Africa President Jacob Zuma Marries Third Wife by MyJoe: 4:32pm On Jan 05, 2010

This Zuma sha! grin

More seriously speaking, polygamy is only unacceptable in Western tradition. Even then, some Western countries are now recognising polygynous marriages. There is no religion I know of that expressly repudiates it. I think it is okay when the parties are comfortable with it. Besides, one can adduce several social reasons why polygamy makes sense.

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