₦airaland Forum

More like AVB has caused Chelski's failure despite spending over £50m to bring in players.

AVB is managing Chelsea at a time when long time replenishing has been delayed. Years of wrong signings and misplaced transfer policy has come to catch up with us. AVB's fate is an exact replica of all managers who have come in with a mandate of playing attacking football.

Moreover it is quite daft of you to compare a one-off double to Porto's sole dominance of the Portuguese League and Cups over the past decade. You can't even spell logic with that type of moronic comparison.

You are the daft one here Debo. A one-off is not winning the league "unbeaten". It's like calling Wenger's feat just that. A one off.

Like others have said, even a log of wood would win trophies at Porto as manager.

And just like the others have failed to state, can dead wood win the Europa League, League and Cup in one season?

Abeg sharrap there. Did AVB also use his tactics to give Falcao 42 goals? Oh wait he scored 43 the season before. What about Varela? Oh wait he scored 9 the season before despite playing fewer minutes.

. . . Copy and paste. He 's gone to Wiki and copied apps instead of goals. Falcao scored 38 goals with AVB and 34 before.

If he made such an improvement, why has he been unable to replicate such at Chelski?

Why isn't Wenger able to replicate his unbeaten feat? Why is he unable to win a trophy for 7 seasons?
Stop arguing like a daft person.

debosky:
The apt question would be how they performed before AVB joined. Did they all suddenly start scoring goals because AVB was there?

In my view AVB is a good manager but nothing special - that the stars aligned while he was at Porto to win a treble is no indication of anything.

Porto had won the league in 5 out of the 6 seasons before AVB arrived, They had won the Portuguese cup in the two preceding seasons before he joined, they had won the Portuguese super cup in the two preceding seasons before he joined so we can arguably say his contribution was marginal at best.

He may take credit for winning the UEFA cup, but when you join a team with such dominance domestically it's not that hard to focus on one tournament and win it, especially when you faced a local rival who you've bested continuously over the past decade in the final.

Just which player can we say AVB has improved his performance this season?

The only player that appears to have improved is DS - but even he had started showing the good form since his loan period, so even that is debatable.

Hehehe. Porto had done this and done that before AVB arrived, therefore his input is marginal.
Chelsea had won the league and the FA Cup 12 months before AVB arrived. Why can't they win it now? After AVB's input is marginal.


This is the sort of unbalanced and illogical arguments you get on here.
Silly talk

--------------------------------------------------

Hulk scored 9 goals in his first season at Porto.
11 goals in second.
Under AVB's tactics, Hulk scored 36 goals and 21 assists. Please define marginal once again.

FBS:
you say what? Youngest to win Euro title? How does that beat JM's? cos he was younger?
Are you now comparing both? You mean the same JM whose name was on song in two different countries by two different set of supporters?

Mr Ogbeni, AVB beat JM's record in the league. Not because he is youngest to win the EL.
I am not comparing both. Don't skew things for the sake of argument.

FBS:
clutching straws my friend. by 'learning' you do understand what I mean and if you don't good luck to you.

No I am not. There is no Manager on earth who walks into Chelsea and does not learns.
JM came in and spent £240m . . never always forget that.

FBS:
Real Madrid spent more than that not too long ago and won NADA! yep ZERO!
So what are you saying??
You just like to spew tomato cos you like typing or what?
How do you know he wouldn't have won the season after? WTF!
The way you shift posts nowadays sef. 
You were using the same arguments to support Scolari -flashing his WC resume but now you say, that don't mean a thing. And all of a sudden the Europa league is better than the World Cup. You were singing songs like
- "DD slows the team down, Lamps is too old. JT is the problem". Guus came and did wonders. abi no be with the same players?
Joe Cole's best season was under JM,
Ibra bagged the 'golden shoe' in Seria A - also under JM.
Did he buy both players? pray tell me, who has been outstanding this season under AVB?

Then came Torres who in your books is the real deal cos he keeps shapes but hey, you will take Defoe instead?
And you talk of hindsight? my friend, lo joko si bi kan mehn. no annoy me this afternoon. 

Mr Ogbeni, everything I defended, I defended in context at the time I did. If you understand the context, you will understand my argument.
I am not shifting goal posts.

The only reason Gus Hiddink came and did well is because he came, spoke with the players and decided to play in the way they can play.
If you have ever watched Gus' teams, they never set up the way he set Chelsea up. Gus came in for damage limitation. If Gus came in as a full time manager, he will flog them all out.

My argument about the players was that, the players are not tactically flexible. They were not and aren't still are. That's why every single time a new Manager tries to introduce a continental way of playing, it's a disaster. Scolari, CA and now AVB. If you do not understand this part, don't come back please. If you arrange a team without tactical inflexibility, you ask for disaster. Simple. That's why I say it's the players.  Please always lift the context in which I was talking when you decide to criticise.

Joe Cole's best season was under JM,
Ibra bagged the 'golden shoe' in Seria A - also under JM.
Did he buy both players? pray tell me, who has been outstanding this season under AVB?

Radamel Falcao won the goalden boot under AVB in the league and breaking the all-time European goal scoring record of Jurgen Klinsman.
He was also voted fifth best player in Europe.
Hulk had his best season in Porto till date scoring 36 goals in a season.
Moutinho, Velera, Freddy Guarin all had seasons of their lives under AVB. . .

Except Moutinho, he didn't buy any of the forward players.
What were you saying?

Why didn't JM get the best out Hernan Crespo, Adrian Mutu, Mateja Kezman and Shevchenko? Hell not even Drogba was anywhere near highest goal scorer under JM. The truth is every Manager, work with the right set of people not even your beloved JM. Do you know how many players JM sent packing when he arrived at Chelsea? Why did he send them away? Please don't forget to answer this question.

No single person on here has ever stated that the AVB is some genius incapable of mistakes. Not even Fergie, Wenger, JM who have a wealth of experience are unable to make mistakes. I have no idea where you are making that up from.

I never thought AVB was a genius. If you thought so, then good for you. What I thought though was that he is a fine manager who having the backing of RA can take us places. I don't know where you are making that up from either.

Yes the Portuguese league is not the toughest in the world to win. How many managers do you know who won it unbeaten? How many managers do you know who won it, winning the Europa league and the cup in the same season. Why do I have to keep pointing this out? JM was Porto's most successful manager in the league. AVB beat JM's record in the league. AVB is the world's youngest manager to win a European title. If it was that easy, you won't be on Nairaland. Quit the gibberish.

And as to this. .

FBS:
imo, we can put this 'debate' to rest by agreeing that AVB is STILL LEARNING!

Hilarious! Please come back and name one manager you know that is "no longer learning"

BlueDiva:
Are these names necessarily better than the ones below?

Fair enough, they ain't performing now because of bad management but are they worse than the ones above?

Mata > VDV
Torres > Chicharito, Saha, Defoe and Adebayo
Bale slightly > Cole
DS > Lennon

How about the England automatic shirt owners, Ashley and JT. Or the Ivorian giant?
Chelsea squad ain't that bad, our manager is whack. Full stop.  

Hehehe . . . They ain't performing due to poor man management.
Anything to blame AVB.

Last season, thank goodness AVB was not here.
How many goals did Drogba score?
How many goals did Torres score?
How many goals did Kalou score?


Last season at Porto, due to AVB's 'poor management',
Falcao scored 38 goals.
Veira De Souza scored 36 goals.
Varela scored 11 goals.

Come on Diva.

coogar:
nateevs, can you read that?

bluediva is comparing the players guus hiddink used against barca 3 yrs ago to villas-boas who inherited dross. . . .
why do nigerians find it difficult to compare like for like for fecks sake?

Don't mind Diva. It was this time in 2009. Cech, Lampard, Drogba, Essien, Malouda, Kalou, Terry, Cole, Ivanovic, Mikel were all 3 years younger. They are all still here. They expect the same level of aspiration, commitment and fitness.

No to forget also that Chelsea had Ballack, Deco, Belletti, Stoch, DiSanto, Carvalho, Quaresma, and Joe Cole in that squad. All 3 years younger and contributed to the season in their own ways.

Do I need to explain these basic things?

BlueDiva:
United is doing well with players that are not better than ours.
Spurs is doing well with players not better than ours.

It's all about man management.
If we all agreed that AVB is learning the ropes, i for nor dey vex.
It's annoying when you hear that AVB is the best thing to have happened to us and the players are his problem.

BTW the following players should please tender their transfer request.

Cahill
Meireles
Malouda
Bosingwa
Torres

Would have added Luiz but if he is played properly ,he'll excel.

With a mind set like yours, you can make anything mean anything.
One big difference between Spurs and Chelsea, they have Adebayor, Defoe and Saha.
You think I won't swap that for Drogba, Kalou and Torres?

Modric, VDV, Bale, Lennon. Please Diva.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Berbatov does not start. He comes in and over two games he scores 5 goals.
Do we have that? Hernandez? Ronney. We don't have a single winger as good as Valencia let alone Nani.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Secondly, how do think they achieved a state of stability? By spending over £80m on hiring and firing manager over 7 seasons?

afrodoc:
and i guess d portuguese league does?
if any of us here goes to manage Porto (and am including coogar n bluediva who r diametrically opposed in terms of tactics  ) Porto would still have a 40 to 50 percent chance of winning their league! Porto will come top 3 in Portugal with a mannequin as manager,dts how poor d Portuguese league is.so AVB having one season of success doesnt mean he is d real deal.

Then go ask Victor Perreira why he isn't running away with the league if it's that easy.
Also ask Moyes, Redknapp, Hughes, why they didn't win the Europa since AVB did it without much ado.

You guys are just insanely illogical. Your emotions are taking over and your supposedly rational views are soo skewed it's unbelievable.
No one saying AVB is the real deal but no ordinary manger wins a treble in his first season, record points, records goals and playing admirable football without being something special. I bloody do not care what league.

BlueDiva:
What did we achieve at the end?
Better to have sat back and wait for our own breaks.

We don't have what it takes to play attacking football.
A team that doesn't know how to find the net should sit back when playing the likes of Napoli away.

Anyhow, we are all watching.
Wondering what nonsense AVB will say again tomorrow. To think that the boy said we have a chance of winning the CL.

So you will keep quiet and not write a single word if AVB told us "Hey guys this season we don't have an attacking team so we are going to sit back like Wolves and watch teams play"

I have told you, sitting back is not guarantee of not losing a game. Watching tons of games, you'll find out you are more likely to lose a game with a negative approach. What if we sat back and lost 2-0? How do we overcome that in the second leg? Remember we cannot attack?

That's not a solution Diva.

Ibime:
You mean the Europa league does?

All hail Braga, CSKA, Spartak and Villareal!!!  

AVB pulled off a masterstroke getting past these teams with Porto.

Of course it does. Open eye dude. Some guy Alex Ferguson and another called Roberto Mancini are in the Europa league.

Ibime:
I so regret signing Meireles. I thought we needed bodies in midfield especially with transfer window closing and Essiens injury but Im seeing a lackadaisical attitude in his game which I never saw at Porto (Didnt watch him close at Liverpool). The dude is busy playing passes with the outside of his foot with the attitude that "if it reach the man, e reach the man". The guy is not careful in possession as I knew him to be at all.

In hindsight. . . Remember how much abuse you spewed for dare telling you Meireles is only marginally better than Ramires?
I called him lazy and uncreative. I still maintain that. Chelsea will not be buying Meireles if we bought Modric.
Hindsight is fabulous.

afrodoc:
but bros nateevs scolari had won d WORLD CUP and TWO COPA LIBERTADORES TITLES before coming to chelsea!sinnce he had a record of success wit different teams he was not a fluke,ur AVB on d other hand might be a one season wonder, he myt b d fluke!

Bros the world Cup is a 6-game tournament and the Copa Libertadores does not parade the world's finest Managers and players. I am sorry.

FBS:
How is he different oga?
and how is falcao doing nowadays?
so basically we dont even need a manager. Buy class players and all is well. I hear you. 

19 goals in 28 apps. That's how good he is doing.
No sir. No one is saying no manager but all good manager had/have good players. Simple.
JM won the league with 91 points. The best season Chelsea ever had. You guys come here and paste AVB is chelsea's worst manager. However no remembers one important ingredient to JM's Chelsea's success. , . . £240m  Go figure.

I know some people who tell me till date they don't regard JM as a good manager until he goes to a team that had no hope without money and turned them into winners. Ask him why he was grumbling when we had Sheva who couldn't buy a goal.

The moment we went from buying top class talent to buying Sidwell, Pizzarro, Ben Haim, on a free and Malouda, JM couldn't do shit. If JM had remained at Chelsea that season he won't have won the league. The season after he would not have won the league.

Call it what you desire, there's no top manager who achieved without top class talent. SImple!

FBS:
lol. Its always easier to lay the blame on someone else. You blame the pitch, halftime beverage and the bolts on the doors.
How difficult is it for you to see and accept that AVB has a LOT to learn?
The question you should ask yourself was why on earth did he agree to take this job? didn't he know the kind of players in the squad?
You ask for Lavezzi et all and if they had performed badly, you would ask for Puskas and Roger Milla?
abeg make I hear word jare.
The same Scolari song you were singing till. . . well, you know what happened afterwards.
Se, Scolari said because he couldn't buy Robinho that na why he failed?
So now at least AVB as a valid excuse. We dont have Lavezzi. Great. good night.

Mister? AVB ain'tno Scolari. . . .AVB won a treble in his first season in charge at Porto.
It's no fluke. One of the primary ingredients is the players he had. His main striker Radamel Falcao is now at Athletico Madrid. .
Go check out what he's doing even under a different manager.

Don't tell me if we have Lavezzi, he may not perform well. How did AVB get the best out of Falcao, Hulk, Guarin, Moutinho? Please mate. Because these players are class players. Simple!

BlueDiva:
Cheap shots nateevs.
I couldn't explain how we played today? Are you serious?

The post lineup was there for even my 6yr old to see.

The formation i put up is to curtail Napoli at home.
You want flair and wing play hen u have whack defenders? Now you have 3 goals against you for your troubles.

Diva it wasn't cheap shots. You came in and said we had no tactics.
They were quicker and able to break our play. However, not because we didn't set up to play in a certain way like you claim.
To play a team like Napoli, you have to match them with pace and energy or you our play them with trickery. Neither of which we have but we have to play.

If we sit back and watch them play, what should we do at SB. . the same? Bearing in mind you said "You don't play a team like Napoli with 3 men upfront" I am sorry, I don't subscribe to such. I will rather my team goes out and play football rather than sit back and get beaten.

What do you expect Mata and Drogba to do upfront on their own in a game of 90 mins? If we had two decent wingers like Nani and even Walcott, We would have scored more than one goal. We don't. Why blame AVB?

FBS:
and should i be happy?
oh, maybe we dont even need a manager then?
having the "right" players is not the only thing you need. You need the right manager to makes thing work. That is the WORK OF THE MANAGER! See the difference?
avb is a boy. I've said that several times but by next season i know he will be better.

Dude. When our players were at the top of their game, we got to a CL final with Avram Grant in charge.
What do you think AG brought to the fore in terms of tactics? What has he won and what did he win after?

For any Manager to do a good job, he needs to have players. The things people like me have been screaming about for ages.
Even JM cannot get anything out of these players.

Many folks are looking over the fence to see if JM is around the corner yet they fail to keep the context the availability of Ronaldo, Benzema, Kaka, Callejon, Higuain, Xavi Alonso, Mesut Ozil, Nuri Sahin just to name a few at his disposal. Each one of these players is worth upwards of £20m

Oya tell me how much you'll pay fo Ramires, Meireles, Essien, Malouda and Lampard combined.

BlueDiva:
---------- Cech
Iva---Luiz---Cahill----Ashley
-----------Mikel
Essien---Ramires----Lamps
-----------Mata
-----------Drog.

Must we use the same formation every single game?
Study your opponents and adapt.

Napoli has killed us at the break.

What do you intend to achieve with this formation?
No wing play? No single person to cross the ball if it falls to the wings.
You cannot counter with the formation because Mikel and Lamps are slow, Essien is unfit and Ramires can run with the ball but cannot pass.

So what do you want to achieve? Park the bus?
What if you park the bus and we concede 2 goals from 2 corner kicks. . Is that not a worse result than 3-1?
I like how you always like to paint AVB as clueless when you cannot even say why or offer any meaningful alternative.

You couldn't even explain how we were playing today.

coogar:
the substitutes have failed to makeany impact.
now i know why united are different when chasing a game. our wingers put quality ball in the box.

Don't mind them. As if this requires genius to see.
By now, one should see Lamps getting on the ball providing the passes.

If anything, it's disrupted any rhythm we had.
If Lamps and Essien are poorer than Meireles and Malouda, how good is the squad?
Bearing in mind that Ramires, Meireles and Malouda and very average players.

FBS:
NO guarantees mate.

Ashley. ope o.

So why are you pissed we are 1-3 down then?
It doesn't matter how AVB sets up, there are no guarantees.
At least that's what I get from what you are saying.

BlueDiva:
Always quick to spew. . .
Like AVB you have zero tactical knowledge.

AVB with all his wisdom is losing.
Play your 4-5-1.
You don't use 3 upfront against a team like Napoli.

Nearly conceded another.
Thanks Ashley.

What do you mean you don't use 3 up front against Napoli?
What then would you say about Barcelona and Madrid?

Tell me how you would have played, who you think AVB should have played and the set up.

BlueDiva:
Thankfully no room for the dud today.

What tools again?
A poor workman blames his tools.

Of course, then try drilling through your gate with a screw driver.


You are honestly telling me we won't be ahead if we had Cavanni, Lavezzi and Mata in our team.

BlueDiva:
In my school clever people don't come last.

Clever people without the right tools will come last.
Ask Faraday to try drilling a hole through your gate with a screw driver.

coogar:
playing mata behind drogba is a marked improvement.
you can see the magician weaving his way in the centre of the park. if only chelsea have traditional wingers.

Honestly I cannot understand what the statement means.
AVB is a clever guy.

We are playing a 4-2-1-3 with Ramires and Meireles sitting and Mata in the hole and we are playing direct football.
He knows we cannot match their pace. We cannot beat them on the counter. They are way quicker.
What's the tactic, play a high defensive line and try to constrict play to their half even though we are away.
Many may not agree with that, but I do.

Press and aim to snatch the ball. Recycle possession early by finding the forwards.
It's easy to see. The only difference, they are a way better team than we are. Simple.

BlueDiva:
Worthless manager.
No tactics, no footie knowledge.

Why did we buy that waste pipe Cahill?
Who said we should buy Meireles?
Why didn't we play Kalou instead of Malouda?

This is looking like the worst season in RA era.
I wish una luck.

I am sorry what do mean there are no tactics, no footie knowledge?

Ivanovic sun la enu le. If that was Bosingwa, dudes will be on the thread calling AVB names for playing him.

diggz:
@ Nateevs,am not just complaining. Please mk sure u watch d reply of d goal against us,U will see mereiles runnin away from lavezzi instead of makin him. Romeu,mikel or essien in dat position wud hv don better. 2-1 already mk I calm down? I calm down

Romeu, Mikel and Essien are all slow players that cannot play in this game. Simple.

diggz:
I beg where mereiles dey run to? Romeu will surely do better dan dis,nateevs no tell me dis rubbish plus d idiotic man is pickin silly yellows! Everytin no b pace abeg!

Gentleman calm down. You are just typing. Why don't you take a deep breath and stop complaining?

Ramires.

That's what top class players can do.

I wonder why Danny just could not release Mata who seemed to be free in the middle.

diggz:
@ Nateevs to answer ur second qxn, FT has bin our major problem.                    Burr,remires looks like a wet chicken in dis match walahi. More of techicality dan runnin Y not bring in players like lamp into d middle? @ least we no go dey suffer heartache. Meanwhile,mereiles looks like poo in dat 4 position virtually not doin anytin. I beg wetin happen to romeu? 4 prefer half of romeu for dat 4 position dan mereiles.

If you are calling for Romeu in place of Ramires, that means you are asking for a midfield of Lampard and Meireles. The issue is while it looks fancy on paper, it is very lazy defensively. There are two sides to a game and as we are playing away we must set our selves up to defend well.  See how quick these guys are and tell me Lampard can sustain the pace needed. Lavezzi and Hamsik are skipping past the likes of Ramires, Luiz and Ivanovic who are the quickest in the team like they are not there.

Ramires is the first name on the sheet because he tackles and closes up better than anyone in the team.