₦airaland Forum

Yesssssssssss!

I just hope we can hold on to this.

Goooooaaaaalllllllll

Now that's what I'm talking about
Game on.

Ibime:
Gab Marcotti on PressPass asking why Alex was made persona non grata at the club. According to him, its bad enough playing a half-fit Bosingwa at RB, but we are one injury away from playing the dreadful Ferreira or drafting Romeu into CB.

We are still not sure about what transpired between AVB, Alex and Anelka. I find it hard to believe AVB told them to leave before they handed in the TRs.

BlueDiva:
Saw this line up somewhere for tonight.

----------------------cech------------------------

bosingwa----Ivanovic----terry----cole-----

----------------romeu----------------------

--------ramires---------------miereles---------

sturridge-------------drogba-----------mata



I hope that is a joke.

This has been the line up since Luiz picked up his 5th yellow card against Newcastle.
I just hope we don't suffer an injury to a CB or pick up a red card in defence.

dayokanu:
How could anyone who watched the game (unlike you) tell us it was Lampard instead of Mata when the commentator was even yelling it.

Yeah. Just to show how intelligent "YOU" are. I made that comment immediately I saw it happen in real time.
I must have finished composing it just around the celebration which may have lasted about a few seconds at least.
According to you though "the commentator was even yelling it" . . . . In real time?
You only got to know today the commentator was even yelling it . . but only in the replay.
This is a classic case arguing by force. Job of the jobless!

dayokanu:
So because no one mentioned that Mata was at fault meant no one saw it?

So I said no one saw it didn't I?

dayokanu:
EL classico was played Yesterday, No one on the matchday thread mentioned who pass the ball to Xavi for the second goal, means in a few weeks time we can come back Sunday Oliseh who made the pass??

Yeah. . . this has stark resemblance to my own scenario because I mentioned "a few weeks later" that it was Lampard and not Mata.
Can you see how perfectly similar the scenarios are?

Is this your own display of intelligence? How you think it is intelligent to compare a scenario that happened within a few secs to one that "could" happen a few later beats me. . . . .


Like I said, you are just one phucking troll hopping from place to place in search of meaningful arguments. Hopeless dunce!

Absolute idiot! This is why I came back . . .

dayokanu:
How can anyone blame Lampard for Nanis goal when everyone knew Mata was the main culprit for that goal

So I ask at what point did "everybody" know?
And if truly "everybody" knew, why is it only being pointed out now?
Why didn't "everybody" point it out on match day?

Are you telling me you get every single player right on matchday?
So if "everybody" did not see it on matchday?
Why is Nateevs being seen as the "only one" who didn't see what "everybody" saw ?


You can't even see what I am getting at. . . Like I told you, I have a job.
I cannot continue arguing with you. It's fruitless. I doubt anyone gains anything debating with you. . . You phucking troll.

Ibime:
Does it work? Results so far say it doesnt.

Results so far say it doesn't? See ya mouth!

Ibime:
Get off ma nuts ninja. Na £200 go make your day? I never paid you cos I never took it serious just like when I let Debo off £100 I bet him for Chelsea-Arsenal game. If you are really desperate for cash, lemme know and stop all this megedefegede. You sound like Bash Ali disturbing Orubebe. 

Hehehe! Pay up ninjah! 
Just confess your landlord would have thrown you out if you attempted a £200 payout in one month. 
At least now you accept which is much better. I finally let you off the hook. No need to pay out but references will made where applicable.

Let's let this one slide. I let you win!

Ibime:
Who cares about AVB opinion? AVB has not earned enough kudos as Chelsea manager for me to respect his opinion as law. I have my own opinions.

By AVBs opinion, Bosingwa was better than Ivanovic whilst Malouda is better than Anelka.  

Im sure you remember when Avram Grant decided not to include Ivanovic in UCL squad in 2008 yet we had no right-back. Was he right?

Was JM right in 06/07 when he decided Robben and Duff didnt fit into his new diamond system designed to accomodate Ballack and Shevchenko?

I have said before that AVB only likes pacy players in central midfield in the mould of Freddy Guarin, thats why he was trying to ask Lampard to play DM in pre-season.

Doesn't mean I have to respect his philosophy. His philosophy hasnt worked so far, thats why he's reverting to older Chelsea philosophy. If Lamps is the problem with regard to pressing, he should go back to his old policy against City, lets see whether they wont hammer us.

Im not concerned with AVB opinion. . . and even if thats his gripe, if slowcoach Xavi and milkfloat Busquets can participate in Barca pressing game, theres no reason why physically superior players like Lamps and Meireles cannot press high. Even Mikel should have hope if Busquets can press up high! 

Like I said before, central midfield cannot press high until forward three press. . . otherwise its suicide! And that's whats been happening so far.

Hehehehe. Your opinion matters eh?
According to you, Carllotti should have been fired. Carllotti will never win anything with Chelsea. You even bet £100 Chelsea will finish outside the first 2 and another £100 that Chelsea will not win the league that season. I stood up and took that bet with you. We went on to win the league and FA Cup. . . . Your phucking broke ars3 never paid up. . . Instead you denied you ever said so. . . Now you are claiming points in 2011?

Did you respect Carllotti's opinion even in a title-winning season? No you didn't! So of what consequence is you telling us you don't respect AVB's one? Nada! Even after Carllotti's winning season, you still asked for him to be fired.

Bottom line, AVB plays Ramires in central midfield despite the ground Meireles and Lamps cover. He's done so from the beginning of the season. It works in defence and you know if the squad stays the same, Ramires will pick a shirt till the end of the season. This is not a case of right decisions or not. . It is the only decision. He's seen that Bosingwa is rubbish at RB and he's brought Ivanovic back. He's also seen Mikel is not stepping up and he's brought Romeu in. . However Ramires stays on and on! And it works!

I ask you again. .  

Why is Ramires the only midfielder guaranteed to have a starting shirt?
Why is Lampard the Chelsea midfielder who is most likely to come off when things are not working?
Why have we never played in the PL without Ramires despite the fact that Lamps and Meireles cover more ground and are renowned for their "industry"?

dayokanu:
I told you all that its either Nateevs doesnt watch games or he is totally clueless about it.

How can anyone blame Lampard for Nanis goal when everyone knew Mata was the main culprit for that goal

This is pathetic.

I never knew soo much goofs were flying from nateevs on this thread

When I see his lenghty essays I usually thought he knew what he was saying

Just this week he claimed Lampard who played 60mins was benched against Newcastle

Show me one post that very day that picked out in real time that it was Mata and not Lamps.
At least it was out there for everyone to see, why is it only brought up today to win points when "it was clear for everyone to see it was Mata"
You probably never even knew anything about that goal until today.

At the time Mata was taken off against Newcastle, he had made 5 passes that on another day would have led to a goal. Today, Dayo is taking this position. .

dayokanu:
How come a player who assisted, completed a million passes was yanked off
And when he left the team started scoring
So can we say Mata too was hindering the team performance?

Why is he asking this question when on the matchday, this is what he was saying?

dayokanu:
A Managers biggest game comes in 3 days time and he should play his est players for 90mins in a league game where a loss even doesnt mean he cant win.
Meanwhile a bad result on Tuesday means he is out of the CL

debosky:
Ramires appears to be a more effective player defensively than Lamps because AVB plays him regularly, unless we are actually comparing apples and oranges as they do not play the same role.
*** RESUME FIGHTING ***

Everything you were saying was making sense until here. Are you by any chance suggesting that Ramires firstly only "appears" to be better defensively than Lamps? . . and secondly because he plays more minutes?

Have you asked why he plays more minutes in the first place despite being technically inferior to his peers in midfield?

Ibime:
Nateevs does not understand the theory of mutual exclusivity.

Dude is trying to use Ramires tackling stats to tell us that a midfield of Meireles, Lampard and Romeu would be "very lazy".

Have a look around the Prem and tell me whether these three are not comparable in industry to other midfields.

Infact, Meireles is noted for his industry at Liverpool.

A midfield of Lampard, Ballack and Mikel won the prem. By Ramires standard, Ballack and Mikel might have the intensity of a snail if we only judge hardwork by pace.

Hehehehe. I like how you go about your stuff. Now it's about Nateevs not understanding the thoery of mutual exclusivity. .
OK let's put this to bed once and for all.
Can you please provide answers to the following?

Why is Ramires the only midfielder guaranteed to have a starting shirt?
Why is Lampard the Chelsea midfielder who is most likely to come off when things are not working?
Why have we never played in the PL without Ramires despite the fact that Lamps and Meireles cover more ground and are renowned for their "industry"?

You are a dunce! You think I am the one using the stats to make sh.it up? Answer the questions if you dare.
If you play a midfield of Lamps, Meireles and Romeu then you must be playing against a very uncreative side as only Romeu can offer any sort of aggression on the opposition.

Never use comparison with Chelsea teams past because we never played a high line nor did we press the opposition. Instead we played deep in defence and relied on the defence and Cech. Ballack and Lamps will never play together in any AVB setup.

----------------------------------------------

And just in case I never put it straight before, Mata is an absolute lazy dud at covering. I will never defend him for things he does not do.

Ibime is a phucking phat phool. If you don't understand context then you are pathetic.

Ibime:
This is rubbish. If all your runs are aimed at getting on the end of things, tell me why you should be making 20% more passes than your teammates. If you make loads of runs to create triangles, only then can you match the no of passes Lamps and Meireles make per game.

You will naturally make 20% more passes than your team mates because you can pass the ball. Not necessarily because you cover more ground. Norwich as at 10 games into the season were the most hard-working team in the PL covering with every player covering and average 14km per game. Are they running in triangles to complete more passes. The whole team covers more ground in a typical game than Arsenal yet make up to 40% less passes than Arsenal in a typical game. What is you on to?

While covering more ground may lead to making more passes, it is not the sole indicator of the ability to make more passes. Rather it is an enhancer. The ability to make 20% more  passes than your team mates is not 'primarily' because you cover more ground but because you can make those passes. Give us distance covered stats of Ramires v Mata and let's put this to bed.

Ibime:
Another case of putting the cart before the horse. First of all, lets clarify that "AVB's new style" (abi na philosophy?  ) is dead for now - at least till he can replace JT who would never fit in to high-line. But. . . . if you must copy the Barcelona style, do it right.

The "six seconds" pressing at Barca is completely dependent on the front three starting proceedings. If the front three (Mata, Sturridge, DD/Shekpe keeper) dont press, it is absolutely suicidal for the midfield three to step up and start pressing on edge of opposition box. Once the front three dont press, the whole system falls apart. . . . to be fair, Mata and Sturridge used to press at times, but I always see DD and shekpe keeper strolling whilst the centre-back brings the ball out, and when that happens, everyone has to fall back 10 yards. Which makes me wonder what drove you to the conclusion that FT keeps the shape when he's the laziest of them all.

What do you mean dead? Hehehe. Dead for where. He may not employ a high line over the next 2 games - City and Spurs - it will be back o rthe smaller teams because the team has to get used to it. Else, we will have the same problem over again. Stop confusing yourself.

For a team 4 months into learning the Barcelona way of doing things, there will be a learning curve. So discussing an ideal situation of pressing is all but silly. That's why in one statement you are telling us how pressing begins with the attack and then telling us in the same statement to replace JT so the high line can work. . .    The high line only becomes a problem when the players in front of them are not pressing - which includes the midfield. You cannot state that you see the shape keeper and DD strolling yet in the same vein excusing Lampard in midfield all because he covers distance. How can a midfielder cover that much distance and not make any interceptions and tackles and you think it's cool?


Stop describing an ideal situation. The truth is, no matter how much pressing the forwards make, there will be opposition runs into the midfield and beyond the defence. No matter how perfect. That's why there must be tackles and interceptions. And you must be a complete dud to suggest that tackles and interceptions have nothing to do with pressing. You think this is fantasy football. name me one team on earth that press so well they don't have to make tackles and interceptions. In-fact, how can pressing and interception be mutually exclusive scenarios in defence?


Pressing players in sequence is a system that may or may not work. I don't subscribe to that explanation for pressing. When you press, you pressure the opponent with limited space to make a decision. However, you have to attempt to stick a foot. The more times you stick a foot, the more blocks, tackles and interceptions you are likely to make. That's why blocks, tackles and interceptions are an integral part of pressing. You could press a player in sequence and hope he makes a mistake and he doesn't. Xavi, Iniesta and Messi will complete 'all' of their passes if you don't stick a foot.

Go and watch how Jones breezed past Lampard against United while he was trying to guide him into making a mistake instead of sticking a foot.

Can you explain to us why Ramires is guaranteed to start every game even though he doesn't cover as much distance as Lampard and Meireles and makes far fewer passes than both?

You need people like Ramires to pick up the pieces in a lazy midfield where opposition walk through and pressure the defence. The only problem I have with Ramires is that when he picks the ball up, he is 10 times likely to not make good use of it offensively.

Ibime:
Why cant you make 3 posts without putting ya foot in ya mouth? If 2 of the top 5 running midfielders in the Prem are lazy, the rest of the prem must be extra lazy. What you meant to say is that Ramires is the one with the most pace. . . although Meireles is no slouch.

Yeah Yeah! And you have to run coming any time Lampard's name is mentioned. Yes you have 2 of the top running mid-fielders yet they probably don't make more defensive tackles and interception than Ramires? You think AVB doesn't see that? Of all three, only Ramires is guaranteed a starting shirt in midfield, yet you are talking about top running mid-fielders. Pace aside, Ramires is the most hardworking midfielder we have.

That's why I put the caveat in front - AVB's new style. The high defensive line requires intense pressing in midfield. The required intensity of pressing, you will never get from a 33-year old Lampard and Meireles in midfield. You must be able to decipher what most of their runs is aimed at. A large percentage of Lampard's run is aimed at getting into the box for that last minute attempt on goal. 90% of Ramires' run is aimed at intense pressing in midfield to alleviate pressure off the high defensive line. That's why Ramires starts.


In the game against Newcastle,
Ramires had 9 tackles - won 7 lost 2. And he had 1 interception.
Lampard had 2 tackles - won 1 lost 1. And he had 0 interceptions.


Game against Wolves.
Ramires had 7 tackles. Won 6 lost 1. And he had 3 interceptions.
Lampard had 2 tackles. Won 1 lost 1. And he had 0 interceptions.


Game against Liverpool.
Ramires had 7 tackles. Won 6 lost 1. And had 2 interceptions.
Lampard had 4 tackles. Won 3 lost 1. And had 3 interceptions.


You want me to go on? You can suck on Lampard all you want. .  These are the things AVB sees and you come down here to tell us how much ground he's covered. 3 interceptions and only 4 won tackles over 3 games for a team set-up that heavily depends on pressing is lazy.



I repeat, as at 2011, if we play a midfield without Ramires in it, it will be lazy.

This man don come again.

debosky:
Ramires has the requisite skills to be a top midfield player, without a doubt! He may not be a Jack Wilshere or a maniac like Tiote, but he is efficient. There's a reason that AVB has kept him almost as a 'mainstay' of that midfield when people like Mikel and Lampard have been dropped and folk like Mereiles don't get a starting berth.

At 23 he is still developing but you don't get into the Brazil national side on a consistent basis without being a top midfield player.

The reason he gets into the Chelsea team 'at this point in time' is because AVB's new style requires intense work rate that Lampard and the average Meireles cannot bring. Unfortunately there's no one else. Play without Ramires and you have a very lazy midfield. That's why he plays.

And as for Brazil, tell me the midfielders who will bench Ramires in this day. Impress me. Are you telling me Ramires would have played in a Brazil team when Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Juninho Paulista, Emerton, Kaka, Ze Roberto, Giberto Da Silva were at the top of their game?

There's your answer.

Ramires will play in any Brazil side where duds like Julio Baptista, Elano and Luis Fabiano are getting a look in.

BlueDiva:
Common nateevs,
Why wouldn't i want to sign 25 determined players by the way?

Ramires will never be a skillful player in the mould of Mata.
However, his pace is always useful in putting pressure on our opponets especially in counter attack situations.

May i also add that he has scored a few important goals along the way.
We have more unimportant players to criticize, Mikel, Torres and Bosingwa.

I asked about signing 25 players because you said we can never get determination from Torres like determination is what is more important.
I hope you know Kalou has scored far more important goals than Ramires. Is that all that is required?


So you think Torres is unimportant? You all will eat these words very soon.

debosky:
Why is Boavista fighting everyone in the press? Or he thought the press would ignore Chelski's form and just fall in love with his Adebayoric-speed English?

You miss the point - every team needs its workhorse(s) - like Mykali said, hardworking and delivering crucial goals on occasion. Very few teams end up playing 11 'more technical' players.

No I did not. On the contrary, you are.
Being a work horse and having the requisite skills to be a top midfield player are not mutually exclusive scenarios.
You have an example in Jack Wilshere. Cheik Tiote is one fine footballer who happens to be a hard working midfielder.

This is never constructive argument. Do you think we should go sign a squad of 25 determined players?
All because they are determined? Do you not think that after Roman spending over £800m, we should have won the CL at least once and the PL 5 times in his 8 years? How many players have the top CL contenders got who are loved because they have "determination"?

Come on!

Ramires will be the last player I want out of the club. However, like Ibime has pointed out, if the focus of the team is still possession footie, then Ramires is a massive clog in the wheel. If we want to play counter attacking football though - which I doubt - Ramires will be a very big part until January when we will surely bring quicker and more technical players.

I will keep him because if you need someone who comes in and puts in a decent shift, then you can rely on him.

coogar:
can you recall makelele doing anything fantastic at 23?
scholes? keane?
don't be too hasty to judge a young player. i am not saying ramirez will grow up to be zidane but he's still new in the premier league.

there's no promise these names would cut it in the premier league.
mata was a lucky break. even david silva did not click in his debut season. don't just think players with flair will come in and start cutting it.
when chelsea were about buying torres - everyone felt he would come in and start scoring at will.

Yes I quite agree with you that not all these players may become world beaters.
To become one though, you need the technical pre-requisites - obviously lacking in Ramires.
Let's face it, Ramires is not the sort of player Fergie or Wenger will sign.
He does a job now but hell even Geremi Njitap was far better technically.

I don't dislike Ramires. Don't get me wrong. He is a fine professional who puts in 100% every single time.
It's just that, when the chips are down, Ramires is not the player you look on to change things.

For a team willing to just make it to the next season in the PL, Ramires will suffice.
For a team looking to challenge and win on all fronts, we will need to do better.

coogar:
i disagree with you, nateevs.

ramirez is actually good. the issue for him is just to know when to travel with the ball and burst forward and when to hold.
he's still young and he will learn in due course.

in my opinion, he is the best tackler in the division.
makelele-esque. knowing just when to stretch his leg and touch the ball.

It will actually surprise you to know that Romeu is a far better player at tackling.
Ramires, for a CM possesses way less ability. I know he is 23 but I do not know if he can be better.

Ramires is not entirely useless. However, for Chelsea to move to the next level, Ramires will need to take a back seat.
The ilk of players we are being linked with Modric, Sergi Roberto, Lucas Ocampos, Eduardo Vargas - some relatively unknown and unproven though - would mean that Ramires will relegate to a squad player.

He does a job but he is not "as important" as you make it seem. Ramires does not play in DM. If he did, you'd wish he never wears a Chelsea shirt again.  

Ramires is what he is - hard working. Going forward though, he is a massive liability. He cannot keep the ball, his off-the-ball movement is below par, his passing is horrendous, his overall positional discipline is woeful and his first touch has lost so many goals that could have been scored.

With his pace, other players will set fear in the minds of the opposition. Ramires is occupying that position because we don't have another CM. If we transferred Modric to Chelsea, would you rather line up like this. .

    Romeu
Ramires Mata


or like this

   Romeu
Modric Mata?

dyabman:
i feel sick when you sometin like these. . . , i will be waiting for the day he won't play for several matches. . fake pundits! u r

If Ramires does not play, trust me you won't know.
There's not much he does. If you think I am lying, educate me.

EDIT: I meant that in attacking midfield. Defensively, he offers a lot.

dayokanu:
Are you serious? I never knew you had a job

During those Drogba bashing days you were on vacation? Now its time to defend the hopeless shape keeper

Yeah, I was on vacation.
I can barely keep up with posting on my own thread.

How you are everywhere at the same time beats my imagination.

dayokanu:
Players like Torres the shape keeper is what Chelsea needs

You want to argue abi?
I have a job you know?

dyabman:
MAtters about Torres and Drogba will continue as long as DK is on this thread,

@Ibime

i guess chelsea still don't need players like Ramirez but sergio biscuit's right?

Players like Ramires are not good enough for Chelsea.

BlueDiva:
Strikers aren't only meant to score goals but to assist?
Such bullshit. Let them create golden boot award for top assist.

When u need a goal you know who to call, Drogba.
When u need to keep shape or u need a laugh, you call Torres.

No it's not bull.sh.it dear.
No one wants a striker who doesn't score goals, at the same time you cannot say the game has not evolved past that.
Modern strikers do much more than goals. The same reason, you hit the floor when Danny goes for glory when an easier option may be to pass the ball.

You saw one towards the end of the game yesterday. He could have sourced Torres but he went shamelessly for glory.
You, I know of all Chelsea fans hate when he goes for glory when he could pass. . . but you do know he is Chelsea's highest goal scorer with 8 goals right?

Are we standing on both sides here?

Hehehehe.

I love how Ibime loves to twist issues. We did not sit back and catch their high line.
We were forced to sit because they had better ball holders than us. Open eye man!

AVB will never sit back and catch people on the break. Something he even confirmed in the interview yesterday.
He said we would play with the same mentality, possession football, we won't play the long ball and 'we won't play counter attacking football'.
Go listen to the interview and stop clutching at straws.

Valencia forced us to defend deep. We pressed and capitalised on their mistakes.


Sorry, the setup you have been advocating for eons is not coming any soon.

dayokanu:
A striker who delivers the goals when it mattered most, the other keeps shape

I am sure Villas boas knows who to trust


Thats why I was certain you were not watching the newcastle game

I am wondering when someone who played 2/3 of the game became benched

Are these the numerous goofs you feed people with on this thread?

its worth keeping an eye on you ooo

Hahahaha! Nice one!
An uninjured Lamps taken off on 60mins is unheard of in Chelsea.
It's tantamount to being benched.

His removal on Saturday was tactical.

BlueDiva:
Common mate, make we cry?  

Yes, AVB still doesn't know what he is doing.
Why did he abandon his high line nonsense for this game?

He didn't. Valencia pushed on because they need a score draw.
Naturally we would be pushed back. They had more of the possession over the course of the game.

With every passing day in training, the players get more accustomed to the system.
And with the moving on of Anelka and Alex, and the benching of £50m Torres and 'ever reliable' Lamps, every player suddenly understands that the manager is in control and all must sit up or step out.