₦airaland Forum

@ibime,

I really do not understand what you mean by Essien is our MOST POTENT MIDFIELDER. .

Ok let's break it down. .AND PLEASE I AM NOT TRYING TO SLATE HIM . . THIS IS FOR THE SAKE OF ANALYSIS. .  

What is his goal ratio per match?
His left foot is bad. .
His shots on target are a century behind Lampard's. .
He can't take set pieces. .
He can't score direct free kicks. .
He can't take good corner kicks. .
He can't head . .
He is not a good passer of the ball . . and you just crowned it by saying he is not a good DM. . .

Now you will agree with me that everything I pointed out above is true. . and Essien is our most potent midfielder? Come on Ibime!!!!!!

Now don't get me wrong I am an Essien fan except that I don't think he is that midfielder you think he is. Essien's natural position is DM. The problem is you always compare every DM to Makalele. . Makalele formed his own style and became what we call THE DM. Having said that every player can't be like him. .

One thing Essien has is his good positioning, good taclking acumen, energy and pace which he needs to be a good DM. .  not the Maka-type DM but his own DM. Maka won't score a goal but Essien will once in a while. He won't be a deep lying DM but one that encourages attack flow . . similar to Owen Hargreaves. .


LPS is a manager that understands the game very wellone thing he possesses above JM is player position understanding and if he decides to play Essien in DM does not mean he has made a mistake. .  JM is not the holy grail of football. . So now you believe JM uhm?  What did he say about Torres?

@Somze.

Arsenal did not win the league because of the number of players in their team not because they could not score goals because of the loss of Henry. . fatigue told on them at the latter part of the season. I discussed with you on IM sometime last season and told Arsenal won't win the league and your response was "I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT"

Having said that I have not said when they lost their high scoring players they still won trophies. . . I just said they continued. . . and continue we will if we lose Lampard. . even if it means we don't win anything. . I am talking about longetivity of a culture, culture meaning a playing style that allows any player in our reserves to fit in without disturbing the rythm of the team.  That's a team. .  not when you take out Lampard then we can't play because he is our high scoring midfielder. . that is a very very unbalanced team. . .

Also I said most of his assists are not delibrate, I did not say Lampard's assist are out of error. . Guess what ! when a player shoots and it hits the frame work, rebounds off a player or a keeper pari, ricochets off the referee and then his team mate then converts this rebound into a goal, that initial situation is considered an assist. . and that is how most of Lampard's assists come about. However when you look at it critically it is not delibrate, to be fair a delibrate attempt on goal but not on assist. . that's my point. . .

Now I know you have a valid argument by saying Lampard is at least there to take a shot. . but there's a consequence! and it is . . a very weak midfield since MOST of the the initial assists were delibrate, that excludes a passing game and that excludes a balanced way of play, which is clealry the CHELSEA PROBLEM and the same reason why they call us boring. . . except we all don't want to own up to it . . 

I want a situation where play is distributed, if 20 goals used to come from just one player and now we have a evenly distributed style of play and 4 players get five goals each in a season, the 20 goals are replaced and in the event of losing one of those players  we will still have 15 goals from the other three. . . now it's better to be assured of 15 goals from any three players instead of missing a whole 20 goals when we lose just one player. .

Balanced play and good play will beautiful our look on the pitch which increase our fan base and assure the club's sustainance from merchandise, match tickets and subcriptions and memebership fees, will break us even by the target year 2010 and release us from the constant financial intervention of Roman. . now that's how to run a club, not letting everything rely on one player. .

Is it me or is it true Makalele has left Chelsea for PSG?
Who can substantiate. . . ? Abeg someone!!!!!

@somze. .

I almost asked myself that question as well today. . it looks like all summer potential summer-signings just faded away . .

I think the Club is finding new ways of conducting business without making noise . . . talking about good PR. .

I am not in support of any overpaid player no mata who he is. . . I wonder how Arsenal am ManU keep good squads and still manage not to have sky-high wages. . .


@Ibime.

I sure do not like Lamps style . . . however, what I will not accept from any Chelsea fan is to back up Lamps contribution to the team with Stats. . . I watch Lamps with my eyes. . and can tell you that for sure he scores goals (lots of them) but those assists are not what you think . . . I consider an assist "a delibrate attempt to release a player on goal". . . . Which clearly Lamps does not possess. . . . only players like Deco and Ballack have such qualities. . . His assists (Lamp's )most times are not delibrate and also not manufactured by the abundance of some passing skill in him. .

Well, unfortunately like you pointed out Deco and Ballack do not score as much as he doesat the same time I am not one of those that think we will miss his goals. .
Some Chelsea fans actually think Chelsea will never reach the top three because they do some mathematical calculations and arrive at a season's goal tally less Lampard's goals. . What nonsense. .
How did ManU arrive at being the best scoring side after selling RVN? How did Arsenal stay on top for most of last season after selling Henry? The same goes for Chelsea. . . Usually the team is setup to play a style that suites the skill of the highest goal scorer in the team. . with great Tacticians in the side, the team formation changes when that player leaves. . simple . . Ronaldo is ranting about leaving, I hear ManU fans saying F him . . . let him go manu will bounce back. . bloody hell this guy scored 42 goals last season !!!!!

------------------------------------------------Cech--------------------------------------------------------

-----Bosingwa------------Carvalho----------------------Terry------------------------------Cole----

    --------------------------------------------Essien-----------------------------------------------


  -----------------------Deco-------------------------------------------Ballack---------------------


-----Cole/Kalou/Robinho/Ribery-------------------------------Cole/Kalou/Robinho/Ribery

    --------------------------------------------Striker----------------------------------------------





My point is Deco and Ballack finding some partnership in midfield in a formation like this could even help us become a better fluid and scoring side. . . without absolute dependence on a single source of goals. . better passing footie could even help Kalou and Joe find forms they never found before. It could help Sheva and Anelka find scoring forms they haven't achievedand that is not to say we might even be signing one more attacking player . . it could be VDV, Diego, Ratikic, Arshavin or even or young player like Kakuta forced to do a fabregas. . . what ever it is Lampard will not and I stress will not be missed. . except some Chelsea fans are praying that the Club gets relegated all so they can say I TOLD YOU. . . I am a team fan not a player fan . . players come and go but CHELSEA remains for life!!!!!

Point made.

http://www.premiershiplatest.com/news/inter-boss-Mourinho-hoping-brazils-adria-5512040.html



latest on the Lampard saga. . . . inter are willing to offer £12m and Adriano for Lampard. . . they really want Lampard. . We must be absolutely mental not to take this deal. . . If the reports are true

Several sources are carrying it though . . .

http://english.gazzetta.it/Football/Primo_Piano/2008/07_Luglio/10/Lampard.shtml

Things have gone really bad you know . . . . Mr Lampard !!!!

The new Chelsea boss had said he was free to go, save any last minute changes of plan. A disappointed Frank accused him of being a "liar", adding, "I can't work with a coach who lies to me from Day 1." But Chelsea chief Keynon says, "Lampard's staying".

@Ibime,

Mikel is a few years old than half maka's age. . . Maka was perhaps not even heard of at Mikel's age. . .
Drogba, Lampard all had late peaks in their footballing career. . .

Mikel will grow to to be that big star under Big Phil. . .

Secondly, we are going to have an argument in the course of the season . . . I am gearing up for it. Let me hint you. . . Deco is the perfect example of a playmaker and one that will in your terms "not adapt to the premiership". . .

When he adapts in the his playmaking role. . . I go bombard you 



@Somze

What is happening to your man Lampard? I don't want to start an epistle about him. . . .




I am looking at the next signings and I wish it will be at least two of Robinho, Vandervaart, Ribery and Diego. . . after that we are reaady to challenge on all fronts. . .

Drogba will not go IMO. . Sheva will reap from the newly introduced passing game. .
Lampard, Sidwell, SWP, Malouda, Pizzarro and TBH will all leave IMO and create space for the new guys . . . . Phil thinks our squad is too big. .

Nadal wins

Nadal is just 22 . . this is the guy the world should be afraid of. . . He is phenomenal. . I respect Roger a lot but Nadal is just some player

I think someone needs to replay this video in the Chelsea camp now. . ; ; ;
I hope they are friends now. .




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNZ9-KZ7pNo&eurl=http://forums.cfcnet.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=31922

Well make una no yap goal.com

Awenlimobor Slyvester writes  for goal.com . . that's true . . . Sylvester is my friend. I know him well . .

@Ibime.
I feel you a bit. . . I remember SKYSPORTS reporting Chelsea have agreed personal terms with the Agents of Ancellotti in the afternoon and then in the evening they said SKYSPORTS WERE TOLD that Chelsea agreed. . . . . . .




@Mr. Debosky

Don't even start gist u cannot finish. . .
Alex Hleb is one of the most decent midfielders in the EPL . . what did he win before Arsenal. . . what has he won since then. . .? How does that make him less of a brilliant player. . . ?

Nemanja Vidic . . . na for which league im dey play come dey command first team shirt for ManU?

So because SWP plays in the EPL, had Champions League experience played and played for country means that he is better than Nani that was in the portuguese league?

What are you on about?

@Debosky

You just criticized us for believing wack sources for transfer news. . . what credible sources do you have to show that Bosingwa is not worth that much? Becos he is not a house-hold name? or because he plays in a league we cannot watch follow?

Ibime:
Yo . . . . lets not get carried away with this Arshavin thing. The deal isn't done yet.

Anyway, check this out . . . . . .

WTF happened to Ivanovic. No one has told us why he hasn't made his Chelsea debut yet. Was he intimidated at Stamford Bridge by all the big names in the squad. Did he simply fail to settle. We know he is a good player, that much is undisputable .  . . . . . so why hasn't his Chelsea move worked out so far?

Ibime, I do not think anything happened to Ivanovic. . . He will definitely be a part of the season. I watched him a few times on ChelseaTV playing for the reserves last season. . and he is a good buy. . Sure Phil must like some strength in Defense. . .


@Wormy

that was funny. . . I heard Fergie was thinking of using Taye Taiwo on the right.  

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=16635.msg2447205#msg2447205 date=1214941959]I hate Chelsea with every cell in my body but you guys should not do this to Lampard i still maintain Deco cannot fill the boots of Lampard in that midfield and if Scolari chooses to dwell on sentiment then good luck to him[/quote]DO THIS TO LAMPARD? How do you mean? He just rejected a a new massive 140,000 a week, two-year contract a few hours ago. . . He wants 150,00 for 4years !!!! Now who's doing what?

Back to my base. . . . Yes. . watagwan?

I woke up this morning to see a possible Arshavin to Chelsea move. . . That will be a dream come true for me . . I have always wanted this guy . . always. . .

@Ibime. .

That Scolari wants to work Deco does not mean he does not understand the transfer market. . .

@Akola

I watch an abridged Season review on Chelsea TV online . . match after match. . .
I don't have time to catch the full version on Chelsea TV. . . I watch a a few matches anyway. .

I hope to watch the pre-season matches live . . . .

Well me thinks Lamps is out then . . . Also there will be one more attacking midfielder at least. . . bring on the premiership. . .

Big Phil resumes tomorrow. . . Can't wait as he's got a lot of unveiling to do. . . he gat a £100m to spend and him just reach £8m. . . jah!!!!!

TOCFCWS


Chelsea can confirm they have signed Deco from Barcelona. . . .



OK let the discussion begin . . . . .

My opinion . . . I quite agree with a change of style of play, howeva, buying a 30 yrd-old does not make that happen . .
Having said that, we signed Anelka for £13m. . . £8m on Deco is not too much money to lose if turns out sour. . .


Opinions please. . .

@Ibime

Lamps can buy out his contract with one year left and over 28years old for far less than £7.5m . . . . Crouch can't because he's not over 28. . ARTICLE 17 OF THE FIFA TRANSFER REGULATIONS. . . . So the club had to cash in because Frank was in a strong position. . Hence his valuation



Following the Lamp situation for a while. . . . and it's apparent he wanted to leave.
He was offered a 150,000 a week for 3 years and he rejected it. . .
Lamps has a year left on his contract which puts him in a strong position. . . He could buy out his contract for less than that. .
The club repeated several times that they wanted to keep Lamps. .
The way I see it is that if Lamp wants to stay, he could have accepted a 3-year £150,000 a week wage. . . at 30, it's a very decent offer. . . but he rejected it. . he wanted four, which he knew the club was not willing to offer. . which tells me he was bent on leaving.

Personally I wasn't very keen on his staying but I also felt he is no doubt a legend and will always be at the bridge. . However it seems to me that Lamps' love for the club is not the way we all make it seem. . . and his loyalty was pitched with Jose rather than Chelsea. . .

I wish him well where his goes. . and we will not forget the No. 8

Nice Article Ibime, y
One just wonders how all those men with empty ideas are still on the payroll. . It's clealryl evident we should neva have signed Sheva footballing reasons or otherwise. . . We are still paying for that mistake. . .

The appoinment of Big Phil howeva tells me Roman wants to return the club to the rightful standards. . and join the league of european clubs conterparts in terms of management. . . . I just hope his strictness and desire to do it his own way doesn't contradict the selfish desires of the foolish men behind the scenes. .

I hope we neva have to go through that phase again. . .

@Ibime

I noticed Bosingwa from the first match at the Euros. .
Though some say it's not ideal to judge players on tournament, it nevertheless says a few things at least of the potential signing. . .

He was good. . . nice pace and his defensive awareness is impeccable. . .

I have talked about the 4-2-3-1. . .  Glad you know it can't be done with Lamps and Drog. . . That's a defensive one though, with two deep lying midfielders. . .
The attack format is a 4-1-3-2. . . replacing one defensive midfielder with a striker or least a support striker. . 

Arshavin can fit perfectly into the either formations. . . . I don't know if you know Veloso . . he is a deep lying defensive midfielder but with the Xabi Alonso or Viera type attack instinct. . . He (Veloso) can play in it as well. . .
I know very well Gomez will fit. . . Mario Boalletti . . . . Diego Ribas (though you won't agree with that),  . . While Ribery, Quaresma, Robinho or Messi can play wide in either formations. . . I miss Robben

Lest I forget, Ronaldinho and Kaka will fit as well. . . I hope you agree with the first. .




@Somze,

Sometimes I think Ballack needs some kind of motivation to bring out the best in him . . . He is still there you know. . . . The guy is Mr Germany.  I hope Scolari does not bring the Zonal marking rubbish to us here oooo. . . ask Benitez. .it's what he used all through last season. . it doesn't work . .
Well Scolari said before the match that the germans have the little inches over them in height. . he was right besides the Zonal thing. . Those german guys are mighty

JM wants Lamps, Drog and Deco. . . I'm puzzled that annoys any Chelsea fan. . .' thot we all knew that for a while.

Looks like Big Phil can resume his job full time after being booted out by Ballack and Co. ok July 1st. At least scouting and speculation can begin

Let's begin to hear those coming. . . I can't wait for the season to start.

ritchboy:
@nateevs
I'm still scared
Chelsea are going to sign kaka, messi, ronaldo, villa, ricky ponting, brian habana, rafael nadal,floyd mayweather, john cena, lebron james and tiger woods. . .
I'm scared to death

Guess what? We are signing KING KONG!!!!! You scared now?

@Somze,

Bless you son for bringing up the Robben issue. . . . actually I will not mind the second coming of Robben. Absolute Class. . .


@Ibime,

I told you about the Deco story just before Scolari was appointed . . you said it was a rumour!!!! It's happening bro. I am still unsure abut Quaresma as well myself. . . I will think Ribery and Robinho. . plus I don't want 17 stars in the team . . . I wish Big Phil can go to Cobham and watch what is possible with Kakuta, Tejera, Stoch et al. . . .

Ibime:
Scolari has one the Copa-Libertadores (South American Champions League) twice.

He has also won the Brazilian Serie A with three different clubs.

He also won the world cup. . .

Ibime I referred to the tactics he employed yesterday against the Czechs . . . did you catch it?

So much noise about aw much english he can speak. . . .When the FA of the country itself employed Capello that could not even say "GO". . now he grants interviews in english. .

ritchboy:
So u want chelsea to sign ibra,kaka,messi and villa your having a laugh mate.

What a nice way of saying I am scared . . . .

wormedup:
hmmm, big phil ? what can i say

the only probs left is to see if RA will be able to stick to his owner's booth and just watch footie !!!

I bet he already considered that before Scolari was employed. . . Matter of fact it's one of the conditions of his acceptance of the offer. .









[quote author=ice_zik link=topic=16635.msg2363331#msg2363331 date=1213262134]At least, now you guys believe me when I say he is the coach! I said so yesterday but no one believed me.

http://www.chelseafc.com/page/NewsHomePage/0,,10268~1326946,00.html[/quote]Search the forum mate. . . speculations have gone on long before your posts. . . Thanks for for your input anyways. . .

Has he managed a club before? Years ago. . but not a european club . . .
Portugal went 2-1 up against the Czechs . . . Some other managers will bring in defender at this time . . . he brought in Quaresma and got a 3rd goal thru guess who? Quaresma. . . . and effectively sealed the game . . . talk attack as a means of defending a lead. . . priceless!!!!

Ferreira played LB in the first game as well.

somze:
I'm a little late . . . Big Phil our new manager, who guessed this one?

I have to give it to Nateevs though, his conspiracy theories were spot on especially on the acquisition of Bosingwa.

Thanks Man. . . Now we need to focus on the transfer market. . Like Ibime said it will open us up to the Portuguese and Brazillian market. . Also big players will like to play for big Phil and Alex and Wenger finally have a match.


Discussions continue. . .

@Ibime


This is what happens when you pull a discussion for too long. You have misquoted me and misconstrued my argument too often. .

Well, well, you want to play 4-4-2 with a playmaker? I have heard it all now. This is not 1994 mate. 4-3-3 or (diamond 4-4-2) are the only systems that allow you to play a playmaker in modern football. What did Holland play on Monday? 4-2-3-1 aka 4-3-3. You need two defensive midfilders behind a playmaker otherwise you are asking for serious trouble. Who will you play in our midfield. Makalele behind VDV? Just those two in central midfield? You will get slaughtered.

You misunderstood me. I never said any team Chelsea or otherwise should play a 4-4-2. Where have i said that? You talked about wing play and I told you that I am a fan of 4-4-2 and you can bet I like wing play. That's all I said. I never started an argument of which is better. Now you've taken it a bit further. I am a big fan 0f a 4-3-3 and my preferred is a 4-3-2-1 . . I have said that several times on this forum.  I like a 4-4-2 but i am very tactically astute to know what works in modern day football.

Whether attack starts from him or not, he is NOT a playmaker but a conventional midfielder. He is the type of 'playmaker' we should be looking for. Adaptable guys e.g. Modric who can play in midfield but also have playmaking skills.

If attack starts from him, then he is the play maker. .

You better believe it. No attacking midfielder presses like Lamps.

I believe. One good way to judge a defensive minded midfielder is that he will get suspend more often than never. Tell me how many yellow cards Lampard got in whole career from tackling then I will believe you.

My point exactly . . . . . all these great managers take these brilliant playmakers and convert them to wingers. From Arshavin to Ronaldinho to Kranjcar to Joe Cole to Hleb etc etc etc. What does that tell you? That the position of playmaker is not viable at the upper echelons of World football.

I have told you many times on this forum that there is nothing like a winger in a 4-3-3. . there are forwards. You only have wingers in a 4-4-2.

It is funny you mentioned Barcelonas failure and attributed it to 4-3-3. You didn't mention it when they were winning everything did you? OK - for a test - name ONE successful team that plays with a playmaker. Name ONE Champion of their domestic league that plays with a playmaker. Is it Hamburg? No! Is it Villareal with Riquelme? No! Is it Werder Bremen with Diego? No! Is it Schalke with Rakitic? No!. Even Zenith choose to play Arshavin on the wing and as second forward. Where is this wonderful playmaker winning all the trophies? WHO IS IT?

There you go again misquoting my points. I did not try to highlight Barca's failure with a 4-3-3. I said their system crumbled when they missed the bustling through the middle of Ronaldinho. The problem is not the 4-3-3, it's that on that day Ineista was on the flanks and Xavi and Deco could not provide that through the middle. I did not say their 4-3-3 did not work. It looks like you are not taking time to read my posts.

The fact is, playmakers look good. They make themselves look good. But they take away from the functionality of the team. A team that employs playmakers is weak defensively, they press in their opponents half (because playmakers are too slow to counterattack) and they leave themselves open to counterattack.

You say the world does not use play-makers anymore and now you say they are too slow. I don't get. It's looks like you've got a fixed mind about what a play-maker does. You are looking like an okocha type. That's not what I mean. He does not stay put in the middle. He moves around. . He could start an attack from the right, left, centre defence. . . bottom line is he starts the attack . . he dictates the play. . every pass comes through him he has a free role . .allowed to roam. . . except that his primary position is the middle. .  not only because we just want to but because he is the guy with the greatest vision and passing technic in the team. That's a play maker . . and that is what I mean.

It is the simple evolution of football which disproves your argument. In the 80's and 90's every single team had a playmaker. Now, they are rare to find. They have all been converted to wingers or central midfilders - simply because the playmaker system is not effective. Full stop.

Who is a playmaker? I defined mine above . . who is yours?

And it is funny how you only recommend the playmakers who cannot be adapted to any other position to Chelsea. Why Diego and VDV? Why not Arshavin, Kranjar and all the other playmakers who are adaptable. What if we decide midway through the season that this playmaker shit is not working? What will we do with Diego and VDV then? Where will we play them.

Ibime how could you tell Fabregas was adaptable before he came to the premiership ? What makes you think VDV and Diego can't adapt? one time you say they are not playmakers . . teams don't use that any more. . . another time you are saying they can't adapt because they are playmakers. I don't get.



OK, name one game where VDV has EVER been played as a central midfielder in a 4-4-2. You cannot. I have never seen it. Even Ritchboy had to jump in to correct you on this one.

I never said he played in a 4-4-2. . . and ritchboy never said HE DID NOT play in a 4-4-2 . . . rather I said he "can" play in a 4-4-2 and ritchboy said HE CAN'T play in a 4-4-2. Which tells you that if I was a manager, I will try him in a 4-4-2 and if it does not work then fine. . even seasoned managers have stumbled on things they never thot could work. Joe cole never played on the right when he was young. . John Terry started his footballing career as a striker. . Kolo Toure used to be an attacking midfielder. . several things are possible. 

If I could have my way, our style will not change at all. We will just have better wing-forwards.

My team would be: 4-3-3:

Maka, Essien and Lamps in midfield (Ballack on the bench)

Ribery and Quaresma on the wing.

Balotelli/Gomis/Gomez up front.

We support the same team but our dreams for it are different. I will not chancge the 4-3-3. I will just want better wingers like you said but more importantly to me, better ball holding midfielders and passers than Lamps and Essien. Which will definitely happen because Luis phillipe Scolari is now manager and he understands just what I am talking about.






Alright Ibime, this will be the last post from me on this argument . . even if I did not win it. Big Phil never buy Quaresma. . sorry your guy is not coming. . also he will not fancy Lamps as well. .

The funny thing is, after all is said and done, VDV may work at Chelsea with Essien and Maka behind him - but only with two egbewedgers behind him, not one

.

Round of applause for that comment. . .

lalaboi:
i knew some big head maggots are gona create a thread about the new coach! and was waiting for what mukina(arsenal) would do!

and yeah! she blocked both threads lol!!

if i wanted to be a stupid fan! i would av said its because she's an arsenal fan!

on the other hand, she doin her job!
but atleast 1 thread should be available for discussion! instead of directing evrybody here to mess up the whole place!

am sure if a high profile nairaland sports person like akola posted the thread , it wouldnt have bn deleted! even if mukina was a chelsea fan! she would av posted the same thread

Good point bro . . very good point. I tell several to post all team-related matters in their threads.