₦airaland Forum

journerman:
what exactly is d point of dis guy? are trying to justify an act of indiscipline, gross misconduct, negligence of duty of this commanding officer or what? Hope u kno it's human lifes we are talking abt here? what on earth should be his reason for allowing these pple to be brutally murdered? (because he was not bribed as u said). Am not sorry to say that u'r not in anyway beta than this animal called maina and truly u should not be taking serious.

What are you ranting about? No one is making any excuse for Maina's actions, in fact I agree with those who are calling for his removal. Please read and try to follow the thread instead of just throwing a tantrum after reading one post. If you suffer from english comprehension, then you are on your own. olodo

Katsumoto:
If we are to believe what is in that publication, then the point that I alluded to in the post below is correct. It holds through regardless of what tribe Maina is, as long as he is from the North. At the end of the day, that article is pointing fingers at the Hausa/Fulani who are bent on ruling at all costs. Afterall, Buhari is a Fulani and the alleged murderers in Jos were Fulani herdsmen. So Maina is acting out a Hausa/Fulani script.

Ah Ah! You were simply supposed to enjoy the article not to assume that it is completely factually accurate. A lot of reckless statements and assupmtions were made in that article.  If we are to believe what's in the publication then your point may be correct - but that is a very big IF.  By the way, why wouldn't you call the script a Fulani script, why Hausa/Fulani? Is Jang not a Northerner?

The only thing we can accurately conclude from the article is that endemic corruption remains in the system.

Katsumoto: This is for your reading pleasure: http://www.pointblanknews.com/os2804.html

Katsumoto:
That may be true but we can not conclude with all certainty until we know where he is from. He may be Fulani or he may be Kanuri.

Secondly, that he is not Hausa does not necessarily reduce Hausa complicity. There is a lot of history that shows Northern minorities acting out Hausa/Fulani scripts.

Having said that, I agree that if he is not Hausa/Fulani, then the argument of tribalism is weaker.

You stated that there is a lot of history that shows that Northern minorities acting out Hausa/Fulani scripts - while this may be true, there is no evidence that this is the case in this instance.  However, the endemic corruption which I speak of, is fact of life within the system and I maintain that this problem is a major contributing factor to the actions of both Jang and Maina.

Obviously, there are other contributing factors.

LAFOCUZY:
Ndu-chuks, please just stop. Your contribution on this issues is really not quite in line. Clearly, the reason for the GOC's behaviour has nothing to do with his ability or inability to pick his calls, graft or any other thing for that matter but that of religious ideology and bias for his Huasa people. The guy is an Hausa moslem who simply was happy that the christian are being killed.
He maybe part of the overall plan, so not answering his calls is part of the plan. That way he will remain non commital. no one can hold him to anything, no one informed him of the crises, no direct intelligence report from the Governor or from Bali, no instruction from anywhere but his Huase boss, cheif of army staff. Only him can tell Nigerian what he was about at that time or what information he got. This is it.

LAFOCUZY, You seem to be manufacturing your own facts out of thin air. Do you have any evidence that Maina is a Hausa moslem who is simply happy that christians are being killed? Maina is not even Hausa.  What a careless remark!

Katsumoto:
Ndu_chuks

I am disappointed in your argument. You are blaming Maina's wickedness on corruption. We all know that is a lie. Maina is a Hausa general who stood by as several hundreds people, including women and children, were slaughtered. It is not corruption; it is tribalism. Lets call a spade a spade.

Katsumoto, I hope you now understand that the bolded part above is factually inaccurate.  The tribalism you allege was probably not at play here - Maina is not a Hausa general as you assumed.

chosen04:
I do not fear the "enemies from the place" where Ndu_chuCks comes from.

I fear his ability to LIE and sowe SEEDS OF DISCORD more than thing.

chosen04, why are you giving ndu_chucks this much power? There is nothing to fear but fear itself.  You people must learn that there will always be those who do not share your views and/or interpretation of historical events. 3 or 4 people who lived through and experienced the same historical event, could give very dramatically different accounts of the same event.  You must learn to accept this as facts of life.

naijaking1:
It's a north/south thing, a case of usurption of functions. Dambazzau obviously doesn't care or even have any regards for the fela, just like Lame(police minister) doesn't even regard the IGP onovo. You can always see a pattern here.

If the above is true, why are the southerners in question unable to assert themselves and their authorities or simply resign in protest while exposing the usurpers?

Afam:
ndu_chuks has always displayed a very low level of reasoning and he lies a lot.

I am happy he has once again made this clear with his ridiculous comments on this thread.

Personally, I don't take his views serious and consider most of his questions silly.

@topic,

The GOC should be replaced, he seems to be compromised.

First you called Katsumoto, one of the best analysts in the political section, a liar, now you say I lie a lot. Must you attempt to ridicule others to feel important?

I agree that the GOC should be replaced. By the way, if you think the kind of corruption I alluded to is not common in Nigeria, then you are very much misinformed. You people are over analysing my comments. I don't particularly disagree your views.

df2006:
@ndu chucks
seriously! i thought you were joking!

I am not joking about the endemic corruption in the system.

Strictyan:
@ ndu_chucks
Why must d Governor use unorthodox means to ensure d GOC's friendship. Maina is supposed to be a professional appointed to do a job. Why does he ave to be 'romanced' in order to get his job done?

The answer to the bolded text is endemic corruption. Sad but true.

Katsumoto:
Ndu_chuks

I am disappointed in your argument. You are blaming Maina's wickedness on corruption. We all know that is a lie. Maina is a Hausa general who stood by as several hundreds people, including women and children, were slaughtered. It is not corruption; it is tribalism. Lets call a spade a spade.

My statements have in no way absolved Maima from the wickedness of his actions. All I am sayin is that corruption is a major contributing factor in both the actions of Jang and Maima. They both failed woefully in protecting the people.

okunoba:
@Ndu-Chuks, u reasoning is flawed. The World knows corruption is the root of our problems and that is the same thing u are advocating here. This type of mind set is the reason Nigeria is bleeped.

I am not advocating anything, you are over analysing my posts. Please reread my posts more carefully.

aisha2:
@Ndu- Chucks, How do you create a cordial relationship with a man who refuses to talk to you, and you seem to be forgeting that jang is a senori Officer to Maina, we may not understand somethings as civilians but in the miltary, your senior is your senior, if you get a call from a number you dont know, you answer hello sir because it may be a senior officr calling, In the Army Senior na senoir, they no dey carry that matter play oh.
Maina Obviously had some higer orders and backing to give him such coruage, abeg stop blaming curroption. I know these soldiers and their codes forget it, unless maina has a serious God Father or Mother somewhere, who born am?

If that's the case, why didn't Jang put the security of his state first and shout very loudly that the security of his people are at stake? Why didn't he inform higher authorities prior to the killings about a sour relationship between himself and the GOC? Jang definitely dropped the ball in that regard. Jang is a governor and should not bring his millitary rascality into the governor's office. The over 500 dead women and children depended on all of these people!!

asha 80:
Ndu chucks stop waffling!How is jang's 'corrupt nature' related to a GOC not doing his job when obviously jang and bali contacted or tried to warn him of an attack?

You have to agree that the least a governor should do is ensure that there is a very cordial relationship between himself and the GOC. He should have known that that cordiality did not exist and treated that as a security problem in the state. The question is, why did he not take the necessary action to inform the authorities of this problem?

All parties failed in their duties here. The said endemic corruption is a major contributing factor - don't ask me for details when the failure is crystal clear.

aisha2:
Didnt mean to make this about you, sorry if it sounded harsh but my point is The GOC was rude, un professional even to his Seniro Officers, there is no excuse for that and He is being paid a whole lot with so many benefits, why should anyone expect that he has to be bribed before he can work.
Lets not blame any system for one mans foolishnesss and bias

It is a corrupt system that will put such a man in such a sensitive position.

FACE:
By your reasoning, Governor Jang is the guilty and corrupt party because he did not hand state's money to Maina and Bali is silly for pointing out the ineptitude of the GOC while your Maina is whiter than snow.


Hmmm, O.K

Maina is guilty of not doing his job as well. I believe the said corruption is a major part of the reasons why.

@honeric, if there is a real audit of these governors' accounts, I don't think a single one will escape guilt. Sad but true.

aisha2:
Well thanks for letting us know the kind of public servant you will be

How did you reach that conclusion? This is not about me, but about a corrupt system. I was simply stating the realities on ground in Nigeria. This is the way they operate.

@aisha2, I agree with your sentiments.  These people need to stop tempting the owner to start charging them N10,000 each to register before they can post - that will make the owner an instant billionaire if most of the people currently registered decide to pay.  They don't realize how much financial sacrifise the owner has made to provide this environment.

Even if a quarter of them pay up, the owner could take the money and retire for good and let the rascals control the site -  they will surely destroy the site themselves while the owner would just open another site. awon olodo  

asha 80:
How does Jang's 'corrupt nature' apply to this case?Or are you trying to be clever as usual?

asha 80, you are giving me too much credit.  When JTF is posted to a prticular region for example, he  makes publicized visits to the top politicians in the region, from governor to influencial local government officials. A cynic would say that during those visits, "I wash your back, you wash my back" kind of operations take place and that Jang did not wash someone's back appropriately.  The endemic corruption within the system is a major part of the problem - it is a very real problem.

At the root of these catfights is a bunch of naira.

Beaf:
We are having an SNC which will define what a state should be. If we don't yet have that definition, you are jumping the gun and dealing with the wrong end of the stick by talking about taxes to be paid.
Should we not first define who a Nigerian is and what their rights are? Then we can start talking about state, oil fields, gold etc.
That is the only way to establish that neither the state nor the citizen is cheating the other (Corruption and oppression).

I agree that we should establish a framework for this so-called SNC. I simply picked the first issue listed by Sapeleguy.

Please itemize the order in which you think the issues should be discussed and jumpstart the process.

FACE:
Ndu-Chuks, I am disappointed that you think that relationship between Jang and Maina should determine the level of the later's commitment to his call of duty.

You even blamed Jang for not establishing a corrupt relationship with the GOC. However, I will cut you some slack on this occasion and assume that that was a light hearted attempt to joke about our egunje culture.

The relationship between them should be professional at all times regardless of how they view each other and there should always be an open communication chanel between the governor of a state and all the security bodies in the state.

FACE, I'm simply being realistic given the Nigerian condition. I agree with you that the relationship between Jang and Maina should not determine the level of the later's commitment to his call of duty - unfortunately that's not the realities in Nigeria. These people are corrupt to the core.

Initial Thoughts Resource Control:

Every state should be able to control 100% of its resources while being made to pay applicable "federal taxes" on earnings from those resources.

Having said that, the federal government should retain ownership of all off shore oil fields and the right to enter into joint ventures with interested parties regarding  the fields. All currently known inland oil  fields should remain  under the full control of the federal government.

State governments who discover new oil can exploit the opportunity as they see fit while paying applicable "taxes" to the feds. As of now, not a single state can boast of developing any of its natural resources to the point of generating billions of naira. Every state has a hand out to receive monthly allocation.

The NASS will determine future land that will be converted into government owned property.

Even in democracies like the USA, 650 million acres of land — almost 30 percent of the land area, 75% or more of Nevada and large areas in Utah and Arizona,  75% of Alaska owned by the federal government.  These are the most oil and natural resource rich land in the USA!

I expect vigorous opposition, but let's see where things will end up.

Afam:
@Beaf,

Why did you succumb to the blackmail by ndu_chuks?

These quotes remain the very foundation of Nigeria and until they are addressed we will be wasting time.

ndu_chuks knows this and that remains the reason why he was uneasy about them.

Your leaders ask you to kill and maim and till today people are doing just that yet someone does not want such serious issues discussed.

Henceforth I will have this quotes in my responses here so that everyone will read them and know how we may have gotten to this point in our country.

Afam, there was no blackmail whatsoever.  I'd appreciate cordiality on this thread so that discussions will not degenerate into ill advised accusations and counter accusations. The bolded portion above is regretable and an unnecessary generalization. The vast majority of Nigerians, regardless of tribe, is opposed to the kinds of extremism which you are quick to associate with certain groups.

honeric01:
I see, but why not look at it this way, what if it's the GOC that does not want to associate himself with the governor because he's not hausa?

I seriously doubt that. Trust me, these people love naira more than their tribes, they've been known to sell their tribes, masses, and souls for the naira. They are corrupt to the core.

Beaf:
"Objectionable" is a relative term.
Ok, they've been taken out and replaced with a link.

Not perfect, but I can live with this compromise.

honeric01:
The GOC is an hausa man and he purposely allowed the massacre to go on.

one more thing, i heard the governor has no power to instruct the army in his state, how true is that?

I believe that is true. This is the reason why smart Governors establish very cordial relationships, by all necessary means, with the army in the state. That relationship did not exist in this case.

Beaf:
Seriously, I strived to make the article fair and wish it would be perceived that way. Test me, see if there is any quote on the founding of the country you suggest I add that I wouldn't.
There might be very worthwhile things that the likes of Azikiwe, Okpara, Dennis Osadebay, Jereton Marierie, James Otobo, Enahoro etc said that I honestly missed; please if you have any, test me; see if I will not add them to the article.

I simply thought the introductory post would have been more neutral if it contained only the last 2 paragraphs which began with "The purpose of this National Conference   " without the objectionable quotes in question. The quotes and other issues could be brought up later. As I said, its only a recommendation and you don't have to accept it.

SapeleGuy:
The quotes are not insurmountable and only carry as much relevance as we decide to accord them, i believe there is enough intelligence to undermine them.

Freedom of speech is germane to the issues we have laid out here. I am very uncomfortable turning to censorship because some one has quoted something i disagree with, there is such a thing as the self righting process in which the people decide what is best for them. Anything else is paying lipservice to democracy.

I am simply suggesting that the quotes should not be included in the introduction of the thread. The neutrality of the introductory post is what I was recommending to the OP - he does not have to oblige.

honeric01:
Ndu_chucks

What point are u trying to make? i also don't understand you, are u trying to say the useless GOC didn't pick the governor's calls because the Governor hasn't bribed him?

You want me to say that the useless GOC didn't pick the governor's calls because the Governor hasn't bribed him? mba o  

It suffices to say that if the Governor had established a "great" relationship with the general, the Governor's phone calls would have been answered promptly. I don't know whether bribery is a customary manner of establishing such relationships in Nigeria - but believe you me, if the Governor had wined and dined the GOC the previous week, the Governor's calls would have received a higher priority.  

@asha 80, the truth is bitter. I believe these people are currupt - sad to say.

I'm beginning to wonder whether some people have an english comprehension problem. I do not object to discussing these quotes, I am simply suggesting that they should not be included in the introduction of the thread. The neutrality of the introductory post is what I was recommending to the OP - he does not have to oblige.

asha 80:
Elaborate on the bolded.

@asha 80, are you a Nigerian?

mikeansy:
Another tried and tested diversionary tactics, when you are caught out you simply blame everything including the system itself but will rather refuse to get to the root of the matter.

The last time I checked a General in the Nigerian Army should not be on the pay-roll of State Government.

How does this address the crux of Domkat Bali's argument. Why is it OK for the Igbo and Yorubas to live in Jos without trying to dominate the majority tribe (the Beroms) and not ok for the Hausa Fulani to live quietly without trying to dominate. Is Jihad posible in 2010 Nigeria?

mikeansy!!! diversionary tactics? That's a stretch na. I was not addressing the root of the problem but simply pointing out that both the Governor and the General are incompetent, and that the system is corrupt. Shikena.

mikeansy:
If the GOC is not willing to liaise with the State Governor (who BTW is the Chief Security officer in the State) and Domkat Bali (Who is a former joint chief of staff) please kindly tell us who he will liaise with? This is a failure of security networking and Saleh Maina should bury his head in the sand. He is no General.

The Governor himself is incompetent as well. He should have established cordial and close relationships with those who are meant to safeguard the security of the state. I suspect that the Governor did not give the General the customary egunje - these people are all thieves.

asha 80:
Moving on to what?

We should sweep them under the carpet like we usually do?

Bring out those south east/south quotes so that we can have a balanced view of where we are coming from so that we will know where we are going.

I meant moving on with the discussion of SNC. Those quotes can be used to butress points made, but not in the introduction of the discussion. Its only my opinion and Beaf does not have to remove them from the initial post - I simply believe that many people may simply ignore the thread because of those inflammatory remarks.

df2006:
the picture is getting clearer,if domkat bali can come to the open and say this,and going as far as calling this man an idiot, then we are in serious trouble due to incompetence.
maina is not picking calls, how do you gather intel if you are not picking calls, they probably might have called and called him before finally sending him text messages. imagine a general overwhelm due to civil disturbance, if it was a war nko?
i don,t understand this country we are seeing white and clearly calling it black, it is most unfortunate that more souls will be lost due to the negligence of this goc person, before he is finally removed.

Bali is the one acting like an idiot. He seems to be angry only because his calls were not picked up but not because of the terrible tragedy at hand.  If maina is to answer all the calls he receives, he'd be on the telephone 24 hours per day.  The whole affair reveals the lack of sophistication in the operations of the Nigerian Army and gross incompetence within its ranks.