₦airaland Forum

layi:
U just answered that yourself.

They have the same attitude towards. Why should skeptic spend a fortune delving into reaserching stuffs . Also note that those who r around and do not need to spend a fortune are rarely skeptics. they know its truth and do not believe there are people like u who wouldnt agree to the existence of the supernatural amidst us.

See Ka's reply. Says all I have to say to that.

But surely, if you can win the prize of 1 million USD (http://skepdic.com/randi.html ) by proving a supernatural phenomenon, wouldn't you just jump to the occasion? I would if I believed in it;

Ka:
There are real problems that can be brought about by a belief in witchcraft.

Say for example, you have a lifelong friend who believes in supernatural powers. One day, he visits a spiritualist who tells him that you are the cause of his problems. All of a sudden, he begins to hate you and curse you, simply because what the spiritualist told him sounds credible to him, and that's the end of a long friendship.

Or if he doesn't begin to hate you right away, he will suffer the emotional torment of having to deal with the belief that someone who was so close and dear to him (i.e you) has now turned around to wreck his life. Such thoughts have been known to drive people mental.

Really, the problem for me is that there isn't really any scientific rigour applied in determining the causes of the phenomena that are attributed to witchcraft. Most people simply use it to explain something that they don't have enough knowledge to explain any other way, or where they are too lazy to do the work to examine other possible causes of the phenomena.

But I will leave the witchcraft believers to continue to believe. There's a great saying from the Bible: "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free". I personally find it quite sad that far from setting them free from fear, a great many people are terrorized by their belief in witchcraft and the supernatural into observing very strange rituals and practices.

I couldn't possibly have worded it any better; You are expressing my thoughts way better than I Could myself.

I would also like to add that the example you mentioned with your friend is self-reinforcing:
* your friend starts to behave differently
* this causes you to take some more distance from him
* this for him is evidence that you are really evil and that your evil ways were true to begin with
* so he starts to behave more hostile to you
* this makes you distance yourself from him even more
* et voilà: he has an indisputable proof that you were indeed evil, just as the witchdoctor told him

WesleyanA:
see, the reason you think that is the same reason those middle age europeans thought witchcraft existed.. . . .
when you're just recovering from a plague, when your country is poor (especially the villages) and you don't have food to feed your animals, when you give birth to way too many children than you can take care of, you don't just expect things to work out good for you! bad things will happen, the animals and family members will die of disease and hunger but when these things happen and people will surely find a way to blame their misfortunes on "witches". . .

long ago when people were sick, they used to cut their wounds and make the patients bleed even more so "the evil spirit causing their sickness will leave". the reason they did this was because they were ignorant. medicine hasn't developed much then and they were ignorant of how to treat certain diseases and stuff.

they'll always make a scapegoat out of a person or group of people they hate and accuse them of witchcraft to justify their misfortunes.

I'm so happy to find a voice of reason;

thx a million

Scorpio:
It's up to you Nferyn, you go come abi you no go come? me i want that 100 euros o, i no what i can do with it

I'm not going to spend more than €700 to just take a trip without any other reason than to debunk your prejudices, but, as I said before, I will take up the challenge when I come over

layi:
[Snip]
@nferyn
If we can't show u picture of a woman turning into a bird,whatever proof we give i'm sure u'll explain it out. U want us to proof withcraft when we aint witches. We know this things exist does not mean it will happen today.
The best way is to use the 100euros u got , take a trip to the remote villages in d east and see things for yourself.
They sleep , eat and breathe withcraft.

Well, if you could come up with some tangible proof, like video footage and not just stories, I'm certainly willing to consider it and if it would turn out to be genuine, I would change my mind.

And yes, when I come to visit, I am going to the villages; I will try to see for myself. But be honest, why has not even one skeptic come out with proof of witchcraft? The only ones that claim to have proof are the ones already convinced about it's existence beforehand

holyghost:
[SNIP]

@Scorpio please do your best to convice them here abeg and abeg no carry anybody near oba, them go melt so they can't be able to tell their encouter with the Chief Wizard of Benin kingdom
once again abeg. we will do our best to point it out for them here

I will take you all up on your offers in 2 years when I'll be visiting Benin with my wife. We'll stay in touch

goodguy:
So u mean casting out witchcraft in a person is superstitious?? OMG! u need to see how guys beside me are laughing so hard at you.!

@nferyn: does your wife believe witchcraft exists?

Unfortuantely, she does

holyghost:
that you meet a beautiful house empty, my brother does not mean the house has no builder(s)
or that you meet a pot at the sea does not mean that it has no owner... it's this simple THIS WORLD HAS A CREATOR(S)

Wouldn't it be wonderful if life were so simple, wouldn't it? Unfortunately your analogies are the ones that are empty

holyghost:
in you evolution theory is true by now will still see monkey getting wiser by the century or babies having some clear cut monkey features like hair/fur or something like that even if by very very low occurrence rates

I have no idea by what twisted logic you come up with these ridiculous claims. Why would these be the case? What element of evolutionary biology (there is no other) leads you to make these statements? Can you explain me, because the evolutionary biology I know makes no such ridiculous claims.

holyghost:
As a child you may think good things in life are free, but now as adult you know most good things are expensive, you were shocked then you got use to it... that how u will be as soon as u meet your maker.

I wish I could just shut of my mind and believe in these fairy tales. O how life would be much easier without having to think for myself. I cannot choose this easy path of compliance, I must think for myself and not let others do the thinking for me.

Now if you have the time to overcome your cognitive dissonance and are willing to read about the arguments of the debate and not try to knock down some ridiculous straw man, you might have a look at the following sources:
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs.html
and
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=66 Where you can discuss your objections against evolutionary theory with some active, tenured biologists. They are very patient and usually don't mind explaining mechanisms of evolution. They will expect you to do some studying yourself though if you really want to discuss the issues

Some easier introductions into the evolution theory can be found here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20011201194909/www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Temple/9917/evolution/evolution-for-beginners.html
and here:
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/ (from Berkeley University)

Once you have gone through the basics, I'm willing to have a discussion on the topic and would be glad to share ideas

Scorpio:
ok cool, when i'm ready to go home, i'll let you know. you'll pay for your flight , but accomodation, food and the likes will be provided. when we get to my hometown, i'll prove it to you. if you game, let me know.

Yeah right,

My wife already said the same thing to me before. Why don't you just ask someone to record a witchcraft session, if there's any credibility to it, I might consider to come over - not that I have much hope

Scorpio:
I could prove it to you, but i can't type that much and i believe action speaks way louder than words. just hope that at the end, you don't accuse me of witchcraft, because i no get am.

Sure go ahead. Take your time, I am patient. And no I won't accuse you of anything, that's not my style

@ all of you who believe in witchcraft: Why is it that none of you has ever [/b]been able to [b]prove even once to a skeptic that there is such a thing as witchcraft?

Just try to answer this simple question.

My offer still stands. I'm dead serious about this.
The belief in witchcraft and the occult is destroying the fabric of your society. You are undermining precious chances of development because of all these resources that are thrown away on curses, spells and counterspells.

Most of these accusations of witchcraft are just used by people that want to undermine the standing and position of their enemies.
In polygamous societies, the best way to get rid of a competing wife is by accusing her of witchcraft;

Yeah, as individuals, you're all fine (well most of you at least ), but the society is seriously messed up;

I'm just voicing my anger.

goodguy:
it's a free world.

Are you blinded?

Just drop an ordinary pig in the bush and see how well it will fend for itself. Or let some white mice loose and see how well will flourish.
The only real difference with biotechnology is the method, not really the result. Selective breeding is evolution at work, biotech is creation at work;

goodguy:
How are we so sure she was aware of her STD before she had the baby? Even if she was, how can we be so sure there was a doctor to advise her?

I guess there would have been. How would it have reached the media otherwise?

The civilisation of a society is measured by how it treats it weakest. When burning children alive under mob rule, there is something seriously wrong with those people and especially with those that do not react against something like that.

The whole of Lagos should be on the streets now, giving a clear sign that this is not tolerated

An interesting take on the continued persistance of ideas, even overall negative ones, in a culture is the concept of memes: ideas as replicators (comparable to genes). Negative idea's could be described as viruses for their hosts.

Meme is a term invented by Richard Dawkins, but further ellaborated by Susan Blackmoore and others
see: http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Books/Meme%20Machine/mmsynop.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme

vexxy:
Why do you think that is?

I have a theory, but I'm not sure you'll like it:

Women are usually the guardians of their own oppression, because they have more often a tendency to conform to society's norms. You can see this for example when muslim girls defend [i]their right [/i]not only to wear a shador, but even a burkha

On a more basic level, it could also be that these women thought that what they had to go through should also be done to their children/grand children/nieces (but of course, that's just a guess, I cannot scoop into their brains)

I suppose it's more common among some tribes. My wife's Edo as well and she was circumcised (luckily not completely). It's only after she reached Europe that she became aware of what a horrible practice it is. Her sister is also in Europe and as she is married to an Edo man, there was a lot of pressure from the family to have her baby daughters circumcised.

It took me and my wife long hours of discussing to make sure she wouldn't do it. I even had to say that if she were to do so, I would report it to the authorities. I'm happy it didn't have to go that far.

Mind you, the pressure was really coming from the women in the family, not the men

michelin89:
everything depends on our subconscio...is not hard for someone to convince theirselves of being something absolutely out of this world! it's a psychological case. we need more psychologist in Nigeria!

Yes, your brain can play wonderfull tricks on you.
never has any of these things been observed by someone that didn't believe in it or was open for the idea.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating and the only thing we have right now is a 'ghost' taste from somthing that they crave for (want to be true)

Why, I like to hug my washing machine. It has too many buttons, though. Difficult to find out which ones you need to press if you want to turn it on

goodguy:
man, remember u gat a wife at home

I used to crave her long before I got married and anyway can I not appreciate beauty if it stares me in the face?