that church of satan thing doesn't mean they worship satan or anything.

i know if someone created something like that in nigeria, they'll probably burn him to death . .

i still don't believe the witchcraft crap.

michelin89:

................when you don't believe in something it's hard it can hurt you, ...................

Believe u wont die and see if u'll be 200yrs. What u believe in do not change facts and moreover we aint talking bout hurting U. We r talking bout its existence.

Witchcraft exists o.

@nferyn
If we can't show u picture of a woman turning into a bird,whatever proof we give i'm sure u'll explain it out. U want us to proof withcraft when we aint witches. We know this things exist does not mean it will happen today.
The best way is to use the 100euros u got , take a trip to the remote villages in d east and see things for yourself.
They sleep , eat and breathe withcraft.

It's up to you Nferyn, you go come abi you no go come? me i want that 100 euros o, i no wat i can do with it

layi:

The best way is to use the 100euros u got , take a trip to the remote villages in d east and see things for yourself.
They sleep , eat and breathe withcraft.

see, the reason you think that is the same reason those middle age europeans thought witchcraft existed.. . . .
when you're just recovering from a plague, when your country is poor (especially the villages) and you don't have food to feed your animals, when you give birth to way too many children than you can take care of, you don't just expect things to work out good for you! bad things will happen, the animals and family members will die of disease and hunger but when these things happen and people will surely find a way to blame their misfortunes on "witches". . .

long ago when people were sick, they used to cut their wounds and make the patients bleed even more so "the evil spirit causing their sickness will leave". the reason they did this was because they were ignorant. medicine hasn't developed much then and they were ignorant of how to treat certain diseases and stuff.

they'll always make a scapegoat out of a person or group of people they hate and accuse them of witchcraft to justify their misfortunes.

There are real problems that can be brought about by a belief in witchcraft.

Say for example, you have a lifelong friend who believes in supernatural powers. One day, he visits a spiritualist who tells him that you are the cause of his problems. All of a sudden, he begins to hate you and curse you, simply because what the spiritualist told him sounds credible to him, and that's the end of a long friendship.

Or if he doesn't begin to hate you right away, he will suffer the emotional torment of having to deal with the belief that someone who was so close and dear to him (i.e you) has now turned around to wreck his life. Such thoughts have been known to drive people mental.

Really, the problem for me is that there isn't really any scientific rigour applied in determining the causes of the phenomena that are attributed to witchcraft. Most people simply use it to explain something that they don't have enough knowledge to explain any other way, or where they are too lazy to do the work to examine other possible causes of the phenomena.

But I will leave the witchcraft believers to continue to believe. There's a great saying from the Bible: "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free". I personally find it quite sad that far from setting them free from fear, a great many people are terrorised by their belief in witchcraft and the supernatural into observing very strange rituals and practices.

goodguy:

So u mean casting out witchcraft in a person is superstitious?? OMG! u need to see how guys beside me are laughing so hard at you.!

@nferyn: does your wife believe witchcraft exists?

Unfortuantely, she does

holyghost:

[SNIP]

@Scorpio please do your best to convice them here abeg and abeg no carry anybody near oba, them go melt so they can't be able to tell their encouter with the Chief Wizard of Benin kingdom
once again abeg. we will do our best to point it out for them here

I will take you all up on your offers in 2 years when I'll be visiting Benin with my wife. We'll stay in touch

layi:

[Snip]
@nferyn
If we can't show u picture of a woman turning into a bird,whatever proof we give i'm sure u'll explain it out. U want us to proof withcraft when we aint witches. We know this things exist does not mean it will happen today.
The best way is to use the 100euros u got , take a trip to the remote villages in d east and see things for yourself.
They sleep , eat and breathe withcraft.

Well, if you could come up with some tangible proof, like video footage and not just stories, I'm certainly willing to consider it and if it would turn out to be genuine, I would change my mind.

And yes, when I come to visit, I am going to the villages; I will try to see for myself. But be honest, why has not even one skeptic come out with proof of witchcraft? The only ones that claim to have proof are the ones already convinced about it's existence beforehand

and to add to what nferyn just said, no special effects should be added to that video footage.

Scorpio:

It's up to you Nferyn, you go come abi you no go come? me i want that 100 euros o, i no what i can do with it

I'm not going to spend more than €700 to just take a trip without any other reason than to debunk your prejudices, but, as I said before, I will take up the challenge when I come over

WesleyanA:

see, the reason you think that is the same reason those middle age europeans thought witchcraft existed.. . . .
when you're just recovering from a plague, when your country is poor (especially the villages) and you don't have food to feed your animals, when you give birth to way too many children than you can take care of, you don't just expect things to work out good for you! bad things will happen, the animals and family members will die of disease and hunger but when these things happen and people will surely find a way to blame their misfortunes on "witches". . .

long ago when people were sick, they used to cut their wounds and make the patients bleed even more so "the evil spirit causing their sickness will leave". the reason they did this was because they were ignorant. medicine hasn't developed much then and they were ignorant of how to treat certain diseases and stuff.

they'll always make a scapegoat out of a person or group of people they hate and accuse them of witchcraft to justify their misfortunes.

I'm so happy to find a voice of reason;

thx a million

nferyn:

. But be honest, why has not even one skeptic come out with proof of witchcraft?

U just answered that yourself.

nferyn:

I'm not going to spend more than €700 to just take a trip without any other reason than to debunk your prejudices, but, as I said before, I will take up the challenge when I come over

They have the same attitude towards. Why should skeptic spend a fortune delving into reaserching stuffs . Also note that those who r around and do not need to spend a fortune are rarely skeptics. they know its truth and do not believe there are people like u who wouldnt agree to the existence of the supernatural amidst us.

WesleyanA:

......... the reason they did this was because they were ignorant. medicine hasn't developed much then and they were ignorant of how to treat certain diseases and stuff.

U believe medicine has the answer to all health problems. Havent u seen cases where specialist examine a patient and tells u they are helpless...rarther than referrin to sum'n higher. they refer u to "apply alternative methods". These are specialists.

@ka
I'm amazed u could quote the bible and yet not believe in withcraft or evil powers possesed by humans.


I'll attribute our underdevelopment to the actual existence of withcraft and not just just bogus belief in it

Ka:

There are real problems that can be brought about by a belief in witchcraft.

Say for example, you have a lifelong friend who believes in supernatural powers. One day, he visits a spiritualist who tells him that you are the cause of his problems. All of a sudden, he begins to hate you and curse you, simply because what the spiritualist told him sounds credible to him, and that's the end of a long friendship.

Or if he doesn't begin to hate you right away, he will suffer the emotional torment of having to deal with the belief that someone who was so close and dear to him (i.e you) has now turned around to wreck his life. Such thoughts have been known to drive people mental.

Really, the problem for me is that there isn't really any scientific rigour applied in determining the causes of the phenomena that are attributed to witchcraft. Most people simply use it to explain something that they don't have enough knowledge to explain any other way, or where they are too lazy to do the work to examine other possible causes of the phenomena.

But I will leave the witchcraft believers to continue to believe. There's a great saying from the Bible: "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free". I personally find it quite sad that far from setting them free from fear, a great many people are terrorized by their belief in witchcraft and the supernatural into observing very strange rituals and practices.

I couldn't possibly have worded it any better; You are expressing my thoughts way better than I Could myself.

I would also like to add that the example you mentioned with your friend is self-reinforcing:
* your friend starts to behave differently
* this causes you to take some more distance from him
* this for him is evidence that you are really evil and that your evil ways were true to begin with
* so he starts to behave more hostile to you
* this makes you distance yourself from him even more
* et voilà: he has an indisputable proof that you were indeed evil, just as the witchdoctor told him

layi:

U just answered that yourself.

They have the same attitude towards. Why should skeptic spend a fortune delving into reaserching stuffs . Also note that those who r around and do not need to spend a fortune are rarely skeptics. they know its truth and do not believe there are people like u who wouldnt agree to the existence of the supernatural amidst us.

See Ka's reply. Says all I have to say to that.

But surely, if you can win the prize of 1 million USD (http://skepdic.com/randi.html ) by proving a supernatural phenomenon, wouldn't you just jump to the occasion? I would if I believed in it;

layi:

[SNIP]

U believe medicine has the answer to all health problems. Havent u seen cases where specialist examine a patient and tells u they are helpless...rarther than referrin to sum'n higher. they refer u to "apply alternative methods". These are specialists.

[SNIP]

Medicine is applied science, just as engineering. There are actually quite a few crackpot doctors that don't really understand the scientific fields that underlie their craft.

And there are still a lot of things we don't understand in medicine. Then there's also the placebo effect of these alternative methods. Your psychological disposition does have a huge effect on your health. As a child I sometimes thought myself ill when I didn't want to go to school, funny thing: it really worked: I did feel miserable for a while

layi:


U believe medicine has the answer to all health problems. Havent u seen cases where specialist examine a patient and tells u they are helpless...rarther than referrin to sum'n higher. they refer u to "apply alternative methods". These are specialists.

at least it's better for doctors to say "we're helpless" than say "a witch caused your ilness".. . .

medicine doesn't have the answers to all health problems. the field is not perfect. it's developing at a very substantial rate though. sooner or later, those diseases they are "helpless" on , will be long gone. just like the time "flu" used to be a dangerous virus just like AIDS is today. now you hear "flu" along with ordinary words like "cough".

I'm amazed u could quote the bible and yet not believe in withcraft or evil powers possesed  by humans.

Strange as it may sound, I used to be very religious at one point in my life... Oh yeah, I reckon that in my heyday, I could have outpreached Okotie, Oyakhilome, Adeboye, Adefarasin and Ashimolowo all combined!

But really, quoting the bible doesn't mean I have to believe everything in it... including witchcraft. There's no point in believing in something when:

- there's no solid evidence (e.g. repeatable demonstrations) of the phenomenon.

Please note that this is what separates science from witchcraft... occasionally, you have some scientist who claims to have made some great discovery. His fellow scientists tell him to give them the steps that he performed to lead to this discovery. If they can reproduce it, then this confirms that this is a real discovery, and the original scientist wasn't drinking ogogoro when he made the discovery.

Unfortunately, you will never find witchcraft believing people adopting the same scepticism... they just accept whatever they are told, and that's why spiritualists and pastors can use the heads of Nigerians as scrubbing brushes for their toilets.

- it will just give me unnecessary stress and headache. I don't want to be one of those people who is forbidden from wearing green on Tuesday because a spiritualist told me that "a great evil will befall me if I do".

Lets clarify issues.

Y'all saying u can't live your lives according to witchcraft sayins. I certainly don't believe in that craft but i believe in its existence.
If i don't want to have anything to do wit the devil...does that mean the devil doesnt exist..

@Ka
I've never been religious but i believe the bible. 2 diff things.
U compare witcraft wit science? U might as well compare water with stone. U very well know that these are 2 diffrent worlds.

Like your scientific claims...if u want to know about withcraft , you can meet one of them for a proof. Its a secret cult unlike science that is open. If u need proofs , go to them.

@Wes
When these specialist tell u to seek other means. Its not that medicine hasnt discovered a cure for such disease. Its just that this patient seems to be okay after diagnosis , yet the problem persist. The physician is helpless.

WesleyanA:

at least it's better for doctors to say "we're helpless" than say "a witch caused your ilness".. . .

medicine doesn't have the answers to all health problems. the field is not perfect. it's developing at a very substantial rate though. sooner or later, those diseases they are "helpless" on , will be long gone. just like the time "flu" used to be a dangerous virus just like AIDS is today. now you hear "flu" along with ordinary words like "cough".

Be carefull, viruses mutate at an alarming rate. If this birdflu jumps species barriers - as many viruses have done in the past - we could be in serious trouble. Luckily, modern medicine is strongly rooted in evolutionary biology, so we may get to understand the mechanisms and find a way to fight the virus. The current increased resistance of bacteria against antibiotics is a perfect example of evolution at work.

I'll put my faith in the scientific method to find solutions. Rather that than letting some witchcraft believers burn witches at the stake like what happened during the plague in Europe - on of the more backward regions of the world at that time. We've come a long way since

Layi: U compare witcraft wit science? U might as well compare water with stone.

I think it's more accurate to say I was contrasting them.

U very well know that these are 2 diffrent worlds.

I totally agree with you. They are indeed very different in many ways, one of which I was explaining in my previous post.

Like your scientific claims...if u want to know about withcraft , you can meet one of them for a proof. Its a secret cult unlike science that is open. If u need proofs , go to them.

I'm not interested in proving or disproving the existence of witchcraft. I've pretty much decided to assume that (for lack of evidence) it doesn't exist, and there is no reason on earth why I would want to go out of my way and bend myself out of shape trying to proving otherwise. Life is simple enough with my current set of beliefs - no need to complicate matters by adding a belief in arbitrarily defined witchcraft to the mix.

However, I should add that I'm not at all passionate about discrediting people's belief in witchcraft. In my experience, it's way too much work for little or no reward. And now that I've set up a Sacred Temple, why should I want to reduce my chances of adding a collection of toilet scrubbing brushes to my possessions by discrediting this belief?

thank you Ka, ... . . .

My replying this posts however doesnt make overly zealous or passionate bout the topic. If it was elsewhere i wouldnt bother responding. i got nothing to gain from it. I only respond because i felt we were just havin intellectual combats. I'm learning as well.

Ka:

I think it's more accurate to say I was contrasting them.

U were actually comparing them. read your posts again. U said/implied that if science discoveries could be passed down, then witcraft should be passed down as well if it really exist.
My point is that they are 2 diff spheres. One in the open...wealth of evidences and the other secret. The effects could be seen occasionally but not so readily available except u belong to d caucus

Ka:

I've pretty much decided to assume that (for lack of evidence) it doesn't exist, and there is no reason on earth why I would want to go out of my way and bend myself out of shape trying to proving otherwise.

Assumption. That setles it. You have no evidence and that i cant readily produce 1 don't mean there aint evidence. Y'all just assuming. Its all good. I aint trying to push u against ur belief but if its for lack of evidence...u need to do better. I thot u had evidences against the existence of withcraft.

ka was contrasting them. she isn't saying witchcraft and science are the same (that would be comparing) but she's saying they're different (contrasting)!

Ka intended to contrast but actually compared when u take the whole post into consideration.
Maybe i need to quote

Ka:


Please note that this is what separates science from witchcraft... occasionally, you have some scientist who claims to have made some great discovery. His fellow scientists tell him to give them the steps that he performed to lead to this discovery. If they can reproduce it, then this confirms that this is a real discovery, and the original scientist wasn't drinking ogogoro when he made the discovery.

Unfortunately, you will never find witchcraft believing people adopting the same scepticism... they just accept whatever they are told, and that's why spiritualists and pastors can use the heads of Nigerians as scrubbing brushes for their toilets.

In summary he was contrasting but actually comparing since he was expecting witchcraft to tow the line of science.
Both need not be placed on same pedestal because rules of an open realm are not neccesarily what obtain in the cults.

One reason Africa will alwayz be backwards is because people alwayz look 4 things to blame but themselves whenever things are not progressing. Its either their village people, or their uncle or some neighbour. Witchcraft may exist but let us stop using it as excuses 4 our failure

EXACLTY SAGE!!!!

if your village is dirty and people are dying because of the bad food and poverty, don't blame witches!!!!!

At least he agreed that it exists, that's all i care about

he only said "may exist" because he doesn't want you to cry (joking).

cry ke? i couldn't be bothered about y'all sayin it dosen't exists, i just want you guyz to hang out in your village or city or wherever as long as it's in Nigeria, then u'll know whether it exists or not.

i lived in nigeria and i still didn't believe it. (well, maybe when i was younger,i did because it's natural to believe everything you hear then).
scorpio, do you belive in toothfairies?

Wesley and the rest. Do you believe in the supernatural?