₦airaland Forum

It's all manner of speach. Different cultures have different habits. There is no judgement here, but you need to have the perspective to acknowledge and appreciate the differences.

And yes, it is stereotyping, I clearly pointed out that this was exaggerated - satire people

I'm thinking about my wife

holyghost:
@WesleyanA i told the forum to give reason(s) for or against their wish to marry or not to marry

E.g I will not marry a clone for it is morally and biblicaly wrong for now!

not just yes i will marry or i'll never marry a clone kind of thing


keep the answers coming i will be back soon with some shocking details...untill then which side is your side?

It is very unlikely they will produce human clones any time soon for several reasons, both medical, ethical and technological.
Anyway, let's just assume human clones are already produced. Under that condition, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to treat these clones any different from other human beings. They are unique individuals with all the characteristics humans have - no difference.

The only reason I could imagine is a general yuck-factor, an emotional, instinctual response to something that the cloned individual has no part, nor fault in.

This would be pure discrimination on par with the ungliest forms of ignorant knee-jerk racism.

holyghost:
@nferyn 2 man and woman makes the case for Gay produced baby if only a man cell did all the show.

I honestly don't know what you mean with this? There is no sexual reproduction involved in cloning, neither hetero nor home

holyghost:
3. It is theoretically possible to do that with identical twins as well (not so possible as the cell must mature and then cultured before cloning take place)

I don't think this has ever been done before - as there is absolutely no reason to do so - but it should be possible to extract one of the two parts of the split fertislised egg cell just after they are split. The only problem would be to detect at this early stage whether or not we're talking about twins. Anyway, it's not really relevant as I can see absolutely no reason to do so;

I'm done thinking for a while, I think

The one above, I mean

I was just writing this reply

Here I am

Just to add some spice to Vexxy's post

Some quotes by Henri Poincaré (famous mathematician and father of the chaos theory):

La pensée ne doit jamais se soumettre, ni à un dogme, ni à un parti, ni à une passion, ni à un intérêt, ni à une idée préconçue, ni à quoi que ce soit, si ce n'est aux faits eux-mêmes, parce que, pour elle, se soumettre, ce serait cesser d'être

translation (not as beautiful as the orginal french text):
Thinking must never submit itself, neither to a dogma, nor to a party, nor to a passion, nor to an interest, nor to a preconceived idea, nor to whatever it may be, if not to facts themselves, because, for it, to submit would be to cease to be

and
To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection

Thought is only a flash between two long nights, but this flash is everything

Science is built up of facts, as a house is built of stones; but an accumulation of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house.

The scientist does not study nature because it is useful, he studies it because he delights in it, and he delights in it because it is beautiful. If nature were not beautiful, it would not be worth knowing, and if nature were not worth knowing, life would not be worth living.

tamia:
so y do other species have sex?

To populate the earth with their kind. they usually only have sex when fertile. Women are the only ones that have hidden ovulation, tricking the men into sex (not that they mind )

FOD:
Did u know that humans and dolphins are the only species that have sex for pleasure? (_{what about that pig}?^^^)

No. Bonobo's (pygmee chimps) have sex for pleasure as well
See: http://biosci.umn.edu/~pregal/bonobo.html

holyghost:
@WesleyanA ID twins are netural clones its ok, but they differ with lab clones by 1 they have differnt personalities(one introvant and one extrovant), 2 they are from two different cells (one from a man and one from a woman) 3.they have closer time of existance from 3min to atmost 2hours but your clone may be produced ten years later or as at when u want a clone of u
[SNIP]

1. Clones can have different personalities as well, they are exactly the same as indentical twins in that regard
2. True, but what differnce does that make?
3. It is theoretically possible to do that with identical twins as well

kelvin:
How would I know a clone when I see one...
Who knows you might think you are getting married to a human, but it turns out to be a clone...

Exactly. A clone is still a human though

@ lioness
If you feel that a successfull marriage between a Christian and and atheist does not support the thesis that marriages between catholics and Pentecostals can be successful, please say so.

It would hurt me that people that really love each other would be turned away from each other, just because of some doctrinal differences between their two Christian faiths. The joke I posted before is till very much on topic:


A man is walking across a bridge, when he sees another guy about to jump off.
"Hey, man" he says, "you don't have to do that."
"Why not?" the other guy says, "I've got nothing to live for. I lost my job, I'm bankrupt,
my wife left me and took the kids, my car threw a rod, and my dog just died. My life totally sucks."
"But God still loves you," the man says, "you believe in God, don't you?"
"Well, I guess so," the guy says.
"Tell me, are you a Christian?"
"Yes" the guy answers.
"Well, so am I!" the man says. "Catholic or Protestant?"
"I'm Protestant"
"Well, so am I!" "Methodist, or Baptist, or Presbyterian?"
"I'm Baptist."
Well, so am I!" "Northern or Southern Baptist?"
"Northern Baptist."
"Well so am I!" "Northern fundamentalist, liberal, or reformed?"
"Northern fundamentalist."
"Well, so am I!" "Northern fundamentalist eastern region, or Great Lakes region?"
"Northern fundamentalist, eastern region."
"Well, so am I!" "Northern fundamentalist, eastern region conference of 1898, or conference of
1912?"
"Northern fundamentalist, eastern region, conference of 1912."
"Die, heretic!" the man says, and pushes him off the bridge.

Turning it into me having issues with my marriage is dishonest. I only used it as an example to explain that the issue at hand, shouldn't prevent two people that love each other dearly from marrying. That's my point

Sorry for being the obnoxious male and wanting to have the last word, but the issue wasn't entirely closed to me.

lioness:


Hey Nferyn, There's no pattern to a successful marriage okay. If yours has worked well, .... kool.
Am not going to keep arguing with you over what we both know okay. So give it a rest,

Now I know that There's no pattern to a successful marriage actually equals I guess you just explain your kind of marriage.

I just noticed a negative tone to I guess you just explain your kind of marriage, but is was unwarranted

lioness:
[What's that supposed to mean?/quote] exactly what it reads. For someone with a better choice of words, i'd expect you'd understand simplier words. Or are u going toask me toexplainwhat i've just said again.

Actually I am - sorry for that. I honestly don't understand what you mean with "I guess you just explain your kind of marriage."

lioness:
Now i have said no such thing. like u said, there's no impedi... Grin Huh to success.

Sorry here Again, forgive me my choice of words, as English is not my mother tongue, I sometimes use words I've picked up, without knowing whether or not they're widely used. I mean nothing should be preventing the success of the mariage.
And I was just trying to follow up on the logic. Apparently without success

Eddy Tells:
i really do not see how that would work. But if it does, then definitely there is a God

Our marriage is the proof it does.

And that's the most weird logic I've ever seen. Care to explain?

Eddy Tells:
fight attack
@ lioness - whats up girl?

Yeah, if arguments fail you... appeal to emotion

lioness:
I guess you just explain your kind of marriage.

What's that supposed to mean?

lioness:
And again, the fact that your maaried to a "strong christain" does nt make u one or even gives you an insight to what a christain race or challenge is all about. You can only speak from someone else's experience and not yours and thats a big difference.

No, but I can attest to the fact that there is no impediment to succes. And its slightly arrogant (for a lack of better words, I don't mean anything so harsh) to imply that I cannot have any insight in christianity because I'm no christian. Shouldn't one study lions in the wild because you're not a lion yourself. Don't you have anythin meaningful to say becasue your a non-lion. Maybe it even gives you more insight because you have a little more distance

lioness:
I'll understand certain statements you made because your not so religious

Now that's funny.
Do you mean that marriages between atheists and christians have more chance of succeeding than those between christians of different denominations?

donnie:
When it comes to truth, there are no grey areas. Because truth is absolute.

How do you know Jesus was Born of a Virgin? Why don't you also try to reason that out? How do you know Jesus was raised from the dead bodily? Were you there?

...Anyway, you probably don't believe, because there is no way you could prove that anyway except by a humble acceptance of that message as truth. Only then can you experience the power of that truth.

There is nothing like relative truth...so don't try to bring disgrace by camoflagging as a christain only to speak against th foundamentals of our faith which we all have accepteed as truth.

What do you mean? Only Christians can discuss their beliefs? No criticism is allowed because the Bible cannot be proven to be history? Contradictions should be overlooked because they come from non believers?

What kind of attitude is that? Leave me with my precious beliefs because they are too fragile to stand questioning?

If that is the case, than your stance is intellectual laziness of the highest order.

lioness:
[SNIP]

Anyway, @ nferyn, i sense in my spirit that your not a religious person and probably don't go to church or even believe so deep in God let alone Christ.
If that is the case, then i can understand where your coming from.
[SNIP}

No, but I'm married to a strong christian. And I can speak from personal experience that a loving marriage between even a christian and an atheist is possible, so why wouldn't it be possible between two christians from different denominations? All it takes is respect and putting your priorities right.

And about understanding where I come from... do you? Can you explain?

Lots of talk, no pictures

[quote author=hot-angel link=topic=2341.msg73504#msg73504 date=1129523635]What will happen if i say I AM AGAINST THIS?


Because there can not be Peace everywhere. There must be some violence!!!!!! That's Life.. and we have to live with it.[/quote]BULL... it's exactly this kind of attitude that perpetuates the violence.

A few short lines from Martin Niemuller the during the Nazi regime:

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me--
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

I cannot agree with you more, Seun.

This kind of behaviour is absolutely unacceptable, no mather what the context.
From the specific case you mentioned and the 'similar annoyance', it seems to me that these people accept and condone extremely unequal and unbalanced gender relations.

How on earth can an 22 year old boy have the audacity and nerve to even think that he has the right to punish his sister?
How is it even remotely possible that someone defends female genital mutilation?
What kind of sick and puny minds can think that rape and beating is acceptable?

In all of these cases, we're talking about males (I certainly wouldn't call them men, weak immature boys is closer to the truth) that are abusing their physical and societal power to subjugate the women.

I have noticed in my dealings with Nigerian men - and with this I do not mean to extrapollate to all Nigerian men - that a considerable amount of them assume that they have more rights than their wives or sisters. I would applaud all Nigerian men that took an explicit feminist stance, just to counterbalance those that think they're the chosen ones

Of course she shouldn't be allowed to do that. The baby can get infected through breastfeeding. If the woman is even considering this, then she isn't capable of raising the child in the first place.

holyghost:
As you and I know science is still shaping our future

so you as a man can you marry a clone lady

you as a woman can you marry a clone man?


mark you there is no Bible/religious injunctions against or for it (point it out if any)
it just you and your reasoning

If I weren't married already, why not? It's not like they're from out of space, they're humans, just like us. Even identical twins (and that's what clones are, except for the possible age difference) show different personalities
The question is, should we allow human cloning? And there I'd rather have they don't start something like that. There are too many unpleasant ethical consequences

Greatpeter:
There are robbers in Nigeria like any other place in the world.

It's a global menace and not peculiar to Nigeria Wesley.

Hi GP,

All of that is true, but there still are different scales of violence. I try to tell her that even in war zones only a small percentage of the population is affected.

She fears that they will target here more because she's from abroud and you know... people from abroud are all loaded in money, why not let them share some with the boys with guns, he

WesleyanA:
she's Edo? that's cool. i used to have edo friends. . . and yeah there are armed robbers almost everywhere in nigeria. esp. in lagos. just advice her to be very careful and take extra security precautions than she's used to in Belgium.

Yes , she is. The thing is that she heard from friends that there is an especially violent gang on the loose now that uses machine guns. They were making comparisons to a situation of terror more than a decade ago - can't remember the exact date now.

Luckily here in Belgium you don't need to take precautions at all, it's one of the safest countries around. There are some neighbourhoods in Brussels, with a lot of Arab pickpockets, but that's about it. They won't shove a gun in your face, the worst thing that could happen to you is being beaten up.

[quote author=hot-angel link=topic=1989.msg72568#msg72568 date=1129442298]Hmmm..[/quote]Looks like I took over your job by accident, but don't worry, I did it for free and you can take all the credit.
Just cast my gospel aside and don't include it in the Coconut Gospel. I feel right at home next to the outcast Thomas

Uchechukwu:
I do not believe in institutionalized religion and will be very willing to debate my stance .

I agree, but that's not the only thing it is.
Historically, religion has been used/
[list]
[li]As a sort of folk science, explaining the world (e.g. see book of Genesis)[/li]
[li]As a vehicle for social cohesion - a positive aspect of religion[/li]
[li]As a vehicle of political power (e.g. the Catholic Church, even today)[/li]
[li]as an instituation for oppression (e.g. the Inquisition, the withc hunts, the Magdalena Laundries, ...[/li]
[li]As a justification for war and conquest (e.g. the Crusades, the 80year war, the Spanish Fury)[/li]
[li]As a justification for slavery[/li]
[li]and many many more[/li]
[/list]

All great monothesitic organised religions have blood on their hands - or more precisely, their very foundations are soaked in blood.
I feel more for the applied pacifism of Budhism and for the pantheistical religions. Although intellectually I can not bring myself to believe in a higher being, it would make life a whole lot easier

WesleyanA:
e-mail /chat will save you some money but calling is the best option. it'll be cool if you did both .. .
i hope she goes and returns safely. . .

Well, she is quite affraid. Apparently there are some armed robbers on the loose in Benin City