₦airaland Forum

Well, we certainly do disagree

allonym:
Hmm, and I suppose if i said it is the duty of the husband to discipline the wife when she goes and spends all their money on $2M shoes, I'm being backward and barbaric - that is just plain BU**SH**.

No, the husband has no right whatsoever to discipline his wife. She is not his property. He cannot initiate violence against her. Assuming that a man has more rights in a marriage than a woman - especially the right to use violence against her - is, indeed backward, maybe not barbaric, but certainly unacceptable..

allonym:
Should the government keep people who have dominant genes for sickle cell anemia or some other inherited disease from marring? I mean, if government must protect children from potential infections from their parents, why not go as far as making it illegal for a couple where both have family history of some disease to marry? Hmm . . . not so sure about that are you?

Maybe it would be advisable to restrict them from having children. I don't really have a clear cut opinion on this issue and I don't know all the ins and outs. Genes for sickle cell anemia are beneficial though if they are not expressed as they offer some protection against malaria;

allonym:
So, just like you would leave the decision of two people who could produce a child that inherits some horrible disease or mental defect to them, so should the decision on whether or not to breast feed. This is a decision that the two must make. And if the mother is idiot enough to want to breast feed her child, then I feel it is the husbands RESPONSIBILITY to make sure such foolishness does not occur. I don't think there is anything backwards about what I just said. NO slip of tongues or fingers here.

I do not agree at all here. The most important thing here is the interest of the child. they cannot make a decision that puts their child in mortal danger, just as they cannot give their child away for human sacrifice. The same thing here, only the scale is different.

vexxy:
[SNIP]
I'd bet with my life that that poor little boy was not waiting for 50 people to help, he was waiting for one person, one person to do something, anything to save him. Just one. But no one came.

Now, if one, just one person in Nigeria could organise some civil action against this like a petition.
It won't bring back the poor boy, but it may prevent these things from happening again if enough people make noise.

Some nine years ago, a sick pervert in Belgium, Marc Dutroux, kidnapped, raped and killed several young girls over the course of several years. The police and judiciary could not solve this. Once they freed the last two kidnapped girls, the disfunction of the police and judiciary was brought in full daylight.
More that 120000 people (out of a 10 million population) took the streets in protest and remembrance.

The result of this was a reform of both the police forces and the judiciary so that something like that wouldn't happen again

Why wouldn't that be possible in Nigeria?

If everybody is sitting on the side and waiting for someone else nothing is going to happen for sure. Even if it amounts to nothing, it shows civil sense and that is worth it in itself.

If however there would be any danger involved in starting such a petition, that would make it understandable when you don't want to get tangled up in this. But then again, somone with the courage to start up something like that is very praiseworthy

Maybe you people in Nigeria can start some petition. I don't know how much good that would do, but at least it's a start.

If anyone would start that, I'm willing to do my share and collect signatures here in Belgium

goodguy:
There are 2 questions I have for you all.

1. Do you believe GOD exists?

2. Do you believe SATAN exists?

If you believe God exists, then why do some folks here not believe in the supernatural? GOD is a supernatural being.

If you believe satan exists, then why do some folks here say there's nothing like witchcraft, knowing that the devil is the mastermind behind all forms of soccery and devilish acts?

P.S. I really don't blame wesley for opposing these stuffs because she once said that she doesn't believe in God.

I don't believe in either and on a logical level, there is just as little reason to assume the existence of God and the Devil as there is to believe in witchcraft. As Ka [/b]said, it is impossible to prove a negative.

The point is, the more our knowledge grows, the more the space of the devine shrinks. With our current knowledge, the only logical God there is, is a deistic God, a [b]first mover that started our universe. Either that or he's doing an incredible job to hide his tracks

obong:
You're right once again nferyn. But i do think internal trade would challenge the west because the UK and especially france rely on africa trading with them. Franch wouuld go to war to stop nigeria from taking its place in west africa

at any rate, if ecowas can adopt policies like a common currency, tarrifs and transporation and ocmmunication networks, we'd go very far. for instance, I wonder how much it cots to mail a letter from lagos to dakar. Tings liek that should be reduced to the bare minimum to encourage more internal trade

No I don't think you're right here. Some companies would not be happy, but they do not really represent much in terms of GDP in France (or other western countries). They would be worried though if the supply of some raw materials (e.g. oil from Nigeria, coltan from the DRC) would stop. That might be a casus belli.

On the other hand, these countries wouldn't really lift a finger to change the current situation, because it's in their interest and real investment in West-Africa gives too uncertain returns.
If the ECOWAS really chose to go on the path the EU took, I don't think they would interfere all that much as long as no trade barriers are imposed on the EU or the US. But even imposing trade barriers is not really necessary, apart from agricultural products that really undermine the internal markets.

Frankly, the Western countries really don't give a damn whether or not development takes place in Africa as long as it's not negatively impacting them. The matter of the fact is that those western countries government are not really evil, ready and willing to undermine Africa (at least not anymore), but a small group of companies is (e.g. the Forrester Group in the DRC, Executive Outcome in Sierra Leone) and their governments don't do anything to stop them.

It's way too early for a common currency though. Start with removing all trade barriers, especially import tarriffs and normalize the legislations of the different countries, so that you don't have crazy things like the import of second hand cars to Nigeria through the Cotonou seaport because Nigeria doesn't allow cars of a certain age. Then you could connect infrastructure over the country borders an eliminate border controls. Anyway, I don't know enough about the situation in the field to have a real informed opinion on how exactly to do things

goodguy:
from your comments on clones so far, u are talking like these clones exist already. This topic is based on assumptions, nothing more.

It is a procedure that is used on animals, with limited success. No one has tried it on humans yet, but someone probably will, once the procedure is perfected.
I hope not, because I see little benefit in it

But assuming there were mature clones, there is nothing different between them and ordinary humans. It's bigotry to claim otherwise

[quote author=hot-angel link=topic=2402.msg81231#msg81231 date=1129957616]Leave and get custody of my kids.[/quote]That's extremely selfish; You would't try to work it out first?

mckaycee:
OH NO!!!! NFERYN AND SCORP, you guyz are being unfair, I meant whatever my parents did not rejecting my own parents. Will you reject your own parents? Abeg jo!

Ok, now you're making clear that you wouldn't reject your parents. It wasn't really clear from your post; It rather confused me

allonym:
i must say i don't believe in witchcraft - or rather, I don't believe there is any power in witchcraft or i don't believe practitioners have any supernatural powers.

Someone mentioned earlier - when talking about bringing in proof of witchcraft - they sarcastically said - bring in a picture of the air we breathe. Now. . .I'm sure you know that we have scanning electron microscopes - if you really want a picture of air. . i'm sure i can find it for you. . .

This is a good attitude to the problem:
* witchcraft exists
* it is not supernatural
* there is no power in it

Basically meaning that it's just like a belief in father Christmas (Santa):
* there are certain rituals (hanging up a sock to put in the candy the night before Christmas)
* There is nothing supernatural about is (mum and dad fill up the sock, not father Christmas)
* The believers (children) know for sure that father Christmas really exist because they've seen the proof: there are gifts and the sock is full

The real problem is that we're talking about adults believing in it, with all their power and their impact on the community

allonym:
[SNIP]
2) The big question therefore is when does life - or sentinence - begin? This is a super hard question to answer. Since none of us are God - we will never know. Someone quoted some scripture which indicates God forming people in the womb and knowing them in the womb - this still does not indicate when life begins - 1st week? 1st day? 4th month? Adam was formed by God too, but did not have life until God "breathed" it into him.

For life, it's not that hard: once the organism has an independently functioning metabolism. This going going to be different for a complex lifeform such as humans (which need a fair bit of development before that happens) and for bacteria (which are alive with just one cell). Let's say for convenience sake when all major organs are formed and the baby could possibly survive outside the womb.

We don't know exactly when sentience begins, but we do know when it certainly hasn't begun yet: before 29 weeks.
see: http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/294/8/947

I don't know where to start, really, but let's rake this point by point

allonym:
should we have the power to force someone not to breast feed their child? That should be her husbands job right?

Why on earth should that be the husband's job? A marriage is between [b]equal [/b]partners. The husband has no right whatsoever to force his wife into anything. It seems like you are saying that the man is the master in a marriage and that the wife should obey. I hope you're not seriously considering such ignorant, backward thoughts and that it was just slip of the tongue.

allonym:
Not the government?

Yes, the government. This problem not only touches the rights of the woman, but also the rights of the baby and of society at large.
Are you advocating that the woman should have the right to infect her child with HIV, just because she likes to breastfeed it? And by doing so basically destroying the child's future?
And who is going to take care of that baby, what about the medical costs and other costs. HIV patients are a huge drain on the economy; Who's going to pick up the bill. If you want society (government) to provide you with it's services like infrastructure, healthcare, police protection, education, then you should live by it's rules

allonym:
That opens the door for other things like government control on how you discipline your child, etc.

Of course the government has that right. The government is there to protect the rights of all it's citizens, including the child. That's why child abuse and sexual exploitation of children is illegal. You can only discipline the child within the boundaries of the law, e.g. whipping is child abuse and should land you in prison.

allonym:
While we may all say it is not right for her to breast feed the child since she has aids, this is a problem that her family should be handling . . how did it become such a huge problem?

She doesn't have AIDS yet, if I'm not mistaken, only HIV. This problem goes way beyond here family. It's first and foremost about individual rights clashing (the mother against the child) and about the impact on society. the family can only be a mediating factor in these matters.

Actually, after re-reading your post, I just noticed that your starting salary would only be €500, not €1500
That even makes it worse. If you would accept that, realise that they are exploiting you

obong:
nferyn, i agree. I think africa could challenge the west. If ECOWAS got their systems working together, it'd shift power. Perhaps the next leader will focus on making ecowas work. obasanjo has done a good job bringing stability

It shouldn't really be about challenging the west, but by creating your own opportunities.

In the EU about 90% of all trade is internal. Wealth is created within the region and the richer countries are helping out the poorer ones to come up to the same level (e.g. if you compare poverty levels in Spain and Ireland prior the EU to where they are today, you will notice the difference - and that didn't happen at the expense of the other member states)

Now if only they could completely and utterly destroy the CAP (common agricultural policy). It is only helping a very small segment of the population and at the same time destroying the agriculture in the developing countries. I'll keep on dreaming

Stability, transparency, rule of law and security: all that is needed for development. One down, three to go. Let's hope the other elements will be in place soon as well

That starting salary for an aerospace engineer is absolutely ridiculously low. That's what a semi-skilled laborer gets in Belgium. The fact that you'd be relocating should'n't matter. Expats get offered very high salaries, why shouldn't you receive that?

Building up an inter regional trading bloc that produces everything the region needs can counterbalance the weight of the US. The EU managed to do that. Now we only need to fix that default currency thing

Seriously, Nigeria should invest much more energy in ECOWAS

The possible switch from Dollar to Euro may be one of the contributing factors for the war in Iraq, but it is certainly not the main one. The US indeed depends on using the Dollar as default currency for trade in basic resources. This ensures that demand for the Dollar stays high and thus the relative exchange rate as well.

It also basically gives the US a license to print money and really gives them a lot of maneuvering space concerning their fiscal policy as they control supply and demand and the world depends on the Dollar. This allowed the US to artificially prop up their economy, as the world is basically subsidizing US consumption.
The last few years they may have overplayed their hand though: to recover from the dotcom bust and 9/11 they lowered interest rates to ridiculous levels and made consumer credit extremely easy to obtain, resulting in sustained consumption and a real estate boom. Add to that the government debt and tax cuts and you're in a very volatile situation.

Right now the Asian economies are maintaining this pattern by their continued reliance on US government bonds. This way the US consumers keep spending on consumer goods produced in south-east Asia (and especially China). The moment these countries don't need the US consumption that much anymore because of internal market growth and export to other regions, the US may be in for a rude awakening and find out that most of their assets are owned by the Chinese

Anyway, it is only because of heavy pressure by the US that the OPEC is not switching to the Euro. The Euro is much more stable and the debt levels in Europe are way lower than in the US. Some non-OPEC oil-producing countries are already trading their oil in Euro (e.g. Russia). The most serious problem with the Euro though is that the growth levels and the dynamism of the EU economies is much lower, but that was a reasoned choice by the European countries: trade in some raw purchasing power for a higher quality of life (welfare state, longer and more holidays, universal cheap healthcare)

whocares:
As a catholic - it is definitely a crime

As a 21st century individual - it is definitely a right

I guess it depends on the circumstance, so its hard to judge

And where does that leave you?

goodguy:
This is totally different from getting married to one. That's if your fact is even real at all. Selective breeding does not mean the offsprings are created by men. It is still the handi work of the animals involved.

Which fact? That our domestic animals were created through selective breeding? Plenty of evidence for that.

In fact, I freely offered some knowledge on this topic in the package of an audiobook (in which, to my surprise, nobody seemed to be interested)

the offfer is still open, see topic:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-2173.0.html

PM me if interested

@holyghost

I truly hope you will go through the sources I provided, so that we can continue our discussion.

btw, you were going to make some shocking revelations, has the time come already to reveal?

adesodgi:
pure murder,and i believe we all know murder is a crime...

Why? did you read the previous entries?

mckaycee:
G..O..D I don't pray to have a loveless married life. If any sin of mine will make me have one, God forgive me, if it will be caused by my parents, God I reject them, If by my enemies, HOLY GHOST FIRE. In JESUS NAME, A.M.E...N.

You would reject your parents?

holyghost:
please say why u want a clone as your life partner

I don't particularly want a clone as life partner. I just don't seen any difference between a clone and a 'normal' human being, apart from the way they were conceived. To me not wanting a clone is like not wanting a partner that was born through a cesarean section

Ah a schism is in the making. we cannot accept this to happen. I call upon the inspiration of our founder, the most holy KA to resolve this dispute

WesleyanA:
at least it's better for doctors to say "we're helpless" than say "a witch caused your ilness".. . .

medicine doesn't have the answers to all health problems. the field is not perfect. it's developing at a very substantial rate though. sooner or later, those diseases they are "helpless" on , will be long gone. just like the time "flu" used to be a dangerous virus just like AIDS is today. now you hear "flu" along with ordinary words like "cough".

Be carefull, viruses mutate at an alarming rate. If this birdflu jumps species barriers - as many viruses have done in the past - we could be in serious trouble. Luckily, modern medicine is strongly rooted in evolutionary biology, so we may get to understand the mechanisms and find a way to fight the virus. The current increased resistance of bacteria against antibiotics is a perfect example of evolution at work.

I'll put my faith in the scientific method to find solutions. Rather that than letting some witchcraft believers burn witches at the stake like what happened during the plague in Europe - on of the more backward regions of the world at that time. We've come a long way since

WesleyanA:
i went to a science (biotechnology, human genome) summer program last year and we had a little discussion about this topic.
a lot of people don't agree with the production of human clones. and in one of the student's words (a guy) "it's better the natural way". "sex won't be popular anymore" . . . . .

i'm neutral in this case of whether producing human clones is right or wrong but if you asked me if i could marry one, i'll say "yes" because the opposite of that will make me no worse than a racist.
they're humans and you really wouldn't even be able to tell if they were clones or not unless they told you. what if you never find out you married a clone?

Exactly, they would be humans, just like us. But we, as fallible humans also have our irrational side that may tell us not to go with someone like that

Now, I am personally against creating human clones to begin with. Mainly - but not only - because the process of cloning is still in it's infancy and I would find it unacceptable to run the risk to have unhealthy of severely handicapped babies just to satisfy our curiosity.

layi:
[SNIP]

U believe medicine has the answer to all health problems. Havent u seen cases where specialist examine a patient and tells u they are helpless...rarther than referrin to sum'n higher. they refer u to "apply alternative methods". These are specialists.

[SNIP]

Medicine is applied science, just as engineering. There are actually quite a few crackpot doctors that don't really understand the scientific fields that underlie their craft.

And there are still a lot of things we don't understand in medicine. Then there's also the placebo effect of these alternative methods. Your psychological disposition does have a huge effect on your health. As a child I sometimes thought myself ill when I didn't want to go to school, funny thing: it really worked: I did feel miserable for a while