EarsWide:

@Joagabje

You make a good point about greed and covetousness.

Dont you think it is greedy for pastors to drive big cars and fly in planes when their congregation are struggling to pay for bus fares ?

Have you found out the reason for the planes. And how many pastors have planes by the way?  I'm aware of only 2 in Nigeria here. You should judge people motives by the content of there words and defence and not by our assumption.
Many pastors recieve gifts . Those who have been touched give gifts to their pastor.  So the so called big cars are mostly gifts. And for a real pastor. It's just a vehicle. He is not moved by the glamour.

Regarding what I believe in response to your questions:

1)Are you saying it's not right for Christians to prosper? Christians can prosper but Jesus christ did not come for us to 'prosper' in that way. Christ came for us to prosper spiritually. If we prosper materially as well there is no problem - but Jesus did not die on the cross so that we can drive BMWs and fly private jets. The prosperity gospel has only being able to grow rapidly by convincing people that riches/good health are an automatic result of christianity - this is very wrong. Good people can be poor and good people fall sick and die. These pastors are selling false hopes.

The message of prosperity is to make people aware of their rights and inheritance. A christian has been given dominion over poverty , sin, sickness ,and all the works of darkness. Spiritual blessings are manifested physically. What do you understand by spiritual blessings? Is it cloud hovering on a mans head?. There is difference between materialism and prosperity. Materialism is going after things for fleshly reasons . Prosperity is to received Gods blessing and extend it to others. A christian should not be trying to get by in life. Poverty is not of God. Ignorance keep people poor. There is blessing in righteousness.

2) Are you saying it's wrong to give to ministers[/b]It is not wrong to give to ministers. It is silly however to give to ministers who clearly have more than they need (with Jeeps, private jets, jerry curls etc). Why should a driver/messenger/domestic servant give 10% of his salary to the pastor so that the pastor can buy a private jet? GO of RCCG is driven around in a Bentley in London - why ? He does not even live in london but there is a Bentley on standby here! Does this make sense ? Why do Oyedopo/Adeboye/Creflo/Hinn need private jets?

Church money doesn't belong to the pastor. Most pastors this days have their jobs and business. The one that God would not allow to work. May get some allowance . But he is not the owner of church money. He is a steward.

[b]3) Are you also saying it's not scriptural to give in churches.
It is right to give in churches if the following are met
a) People are not scared into giving by pastors misquoting the bible
b) People are not told to pay their tithes instead of paying bills
c) People are told the truth about tithes - it is not a requirement of christianity
d) People are not promised returns for giving
e) The church does things for the community like free schoosl and hospitals
f) Pastors do not fake miracles

The scriptures Should be your references not your mind.

I was listening to Oyedepo recently and he managed to use a whole sermon to basically scare people into tithing and giving money. In the process of doing this - he managed to misquote several verses in the bible. He also said something very silly - he said people should not borrow money - why then do the offering envelopes in pentecostal churches have credit card sections ? If my salary is not enough for me to live on (like many Africans) - how do I pay the tithe they keep on demanding ? Steal

You quote him according to context. The western culture is not perfect. But if it has become a law to use credit card by force, nothing is wrong with church adopting it. In Uk if you carry cash for shopping, you will be a suspect , they expect you to use card. It's part of satan's plan of control into the one world government.

The pentecostal churches are at a crossroads - you can only fool people for so long. It is time for someone from within to stand up and say enough is enough.

You have much to learn in my opinion. You should dwell on the Word of God rather than assumptions. Why do you you are right and churches are wrong. We have one common ground . The scriptures , which us our authority.Study it yourself and judge your assumptions by it.

KunleOshob:

Finally joagbaje has confessed to being a fraud though he is still telling us stories about a friend giving him the Akhozem I.D when wld all these lies stop You've been caught with your hand in the cookies jar. Imagine the immorality of it, voting for yourself using multiple user I.Ds and the vanity of commending your own posts with other I.Ds. I am not suprised though as I don't expect any better from a CE pastor who is trained to be a notorious shameless lier. But seriously I agree oga joe needs to change his user I.D as he is bringing too much shame to his family. As far as his church is concerned being a shameless institution they don't care they revel in inequity. And oga joe, your bragging does not help matters now every one knows that you are collecting inflated contracts in Aso rock and partaking in the looting of our country, why do you keep shooting yourself in the hips?

GBAM!!!

Man of Fraud!

Joagbaje:

I have said I took over AKHOZEM this January.I'm not aware if he voted, because he hardly make posts. I have been under pressure to use another I.D .  I had another offer by an old NL who stooped making posts for years now, but he couldn't remember his password . They are concerned about the damage your privacy attack on me and may result into. After TTonye my friend , joined in the privacy attack. I really didint know his intention. I took AKHOZEM offer because he was really infuriated by ttonye action.

What utter fffing bollocks lie!

Why the bloody lies?

What does it take to register a new account on your own? Why do you have to only attempt to use "I.Ds being offerred by my friends and supporters"?

BULLSSSHYT!

Enigma:

^^^ Sorry you are very wrong; in fact I am being kind by not saying you are a liar. Why not bring up the thread. I can do it but I want you to do it yourself.

I will appreciate you bring it up.

PS you are again wrong that the info you shared did not reveal your identity; they diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiid; your name, the university you went to, the names of other exhibitors etc etc.
Stop digging yourself further and further into the hole. Just REPENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

These  links to my exhibitions and all only came up after, my I.D had been made public by you guys. There was nothing more to hide.  It was necessary at that time to revealed somethings because my personality was being rubbished maliciously and my many appeal to moderators fell on deaf ears. I had to play along.

Joagbaje:

I will appreciate you bring it up.

Naah, your claims (in fact your lies) your proof.

I'll go one step further than I've done and say that I don't even think I posted on that thread at all.

I thought Jo asked the Mods to delete the thread under discussion and they did so

You keep saying people made your ID public. Haba - what is your username? If you hear femiwilliams, what will you say is the person's name? "Robson Bates"? or what? Or was it Enigma that gave you the username you use?

But lets even assume all the things you claim happened, Jo.

Can you show us from Scripture when a Servant of God (Apostle, teacher, whatever from the NT) decided to lie, misrepresent facts and twist reality to support himself? Name him so such a person then becomes your role-model before us!

Why are WE (babes with milk teeth or outright unbelievers as you call us) not doing same to our own advantage? KunleOshob has had personal threats to his life (most probably from CE thugs like the "rich" okada champion) - why didn't he hide behind other IDs to support himself? What guarantee does he have in Christ that makes him fearless but which Pastor Joe does not have that made him "collect" "azhokem" from a friend afraid for his life? Who as ever threatened you like they did Kunle? What does that say about the trust you have in the God you claim to serve, Mr Pastor?

Yes, indeed upon checking I am now realising that the thread was deleted.

For the records:

1. I did not start the thread
2. I am 99% certain that I did not make a single post on that thread.

,

@joagbaje
Please I beg you in the name of God and becos of your family to drop this arguments and stop trying to justify anything, you've been caught pants down and all this blah,blah,blah is only making your case worse. I also strongly suggest you change your user name as you can't help but embarass urself regularly.

@Kunle:

What this chap needs to change is his life. If he changes his user-name, everyone will recognize the new one in a few days with his motives and words.

I remember Christs Words about salt losing its taste - it will be thrown away

@nuke
It doesn't matter everyone recognizes it, at least he will stop dragging his family name in the mud. I asked him to change it cos it is his family he is disgracing here. Personally like Oyaks he might be shameless but he shd remember the name he is rubbishing here on nl does not belong to him alone.

The issue with giving is made clear. I find it rather funny that when there is giving done in God's house people cry foul, yet they go for social meetings and get togrthers and DONATE in order to ensure that the legacy continues. Giving as we know will never cease, its a thing of faith and not under compulsion s many term it to be. In the actual sense can you out - give God who has given you the power to MAKE wealth. The word of GOD if you listen to it and follow has the potentials to change your life. ACTS 20:32 says; And now brethren , i commend you to God and the word of His grace which is ABLE to BUILD you UP and give you an INHERITANCE among all that are sanctified. LETS CHECK OURSELVES

Joagbaje:


You have much to learn in my opinion. You should dwell on the Word of God rather than assumptions. Why do you you are right and churches are wrong. We have one common ground . The scriptures , which us our authority.Study it yourself and judge your assumptions by it.

@ Joagbaje, in my opinion, Earswide made a solid statement that church leaders cannot fool their members for much longer. People are starting to ask questions about the lavish lifestyles of modern day pastors. So I think you have a lesson or two to learn about that too. Anyone (pastor or not) that creates wealth at the expense of poor people is wicked. Plain truth! Having said that, I have no doubt there are genuine servants of God who serve Him in truth without extorting money from their congregations. Such men constitute the minority.

@ JOAGBAJE AKHOZEM or is it AKHOZEM JOAGBAJE

I am not so sure now which is first name and which is surname I really think it was the Holy Spirit that led you to make that blunder yesterday Attempting to change ID without obtaining approval from the ‘house’ you know that’s not right

Anyways, if you are really concern about the reactions of your people ‘back home’, I think you can still make that ID change work (in the long run). As long as people continue to see the ID joagbaje, what comes to mind is Pastor Joe Agbaje and this sometimes influences their response. It won’t be a bad idea letting people know the joagbaje ID has been retired

KunleOshob:

I also strongly suggest you change your user name as you can't help but embarass urself regularly.

I think it make sense too.

@ Joeagbaje

It doesn't bother me if you change your name and choose to post with another ID; just do it with integrity (not this talking to and voting for yourself business); if you insist on a new ID, I will respect that and call you by that ID and not Joagbaje.

Meanwhile if when (even this minute/second?) you see Azibalua, please greet him, erm, her for me. 

Joagbaje:

Many pastors recieve gifts . Those who have been touched give gifts to their pastor. So the so called big cars are mostly gifts. And for a real pastor. It's just a vehicle. He is not moved by the glamour.

This is where you are wrong Jo, real pastors are moved by the Godly spirit in them. No real pastor will indulge in extreme luxury when their brothers are unable to afford a meal/day, none. Its true pastors receives gifts by virtue of their position, but a real man of God will not store up/lock up gifts in excess of his requirement when there is a brother in need.

Joagbaje:

You should judge people motives by the content of there words and defence and not by our assumption.

The content of words does not always tell who you are, the true info lies in the heart. And I think the content of the heart is better expressed in actions & physical (body) expressions. We should only rely on words as a last resort (in the absence of any other info). We assess pastors by their actions and not what they preach.

LOL sitcom toh quality. Unparalleled comedy. LOL na wa. Will there be more tho?

Eyzhvntsn: happy birthday, dearie! :*

^^^

^^ Ah "one of us"   mine too was a couple of days ago Happy birthday

^^^ Why thank you very much and happy belated birthday to you.

. . .this thread that started so innocently ended up outing Joagbaje for the serial liar and self-promoting fraud that he is.

Joagbaje:

Several friends have advised me to change I.D. But I like joagbaje, but when attacks began to go beyond ethics to personal life, up to the publishing of personal pictures from facebook. Giving my adress on a forum lije this. Its no lnger funny. Its a security matter. I have made several complains to moderators. And nothing was done. Actually AKHOZEM was handed over to me by a friend who has ben on my neck to change my I.D for safety and security reasons since sensitive posts are been made. Which involves other faiths, such as Islam. And you find people attacking someone so viciously in such a personal way and exposing personal life . So [size=14pt]I finally agree to take over his ID. I don't even know the meaning of AKHOZEM ![/size] .

^^^This is certainly in the running for the biggest whopper of the year. First it was fyneguy being exposed for 419 and now Joagbaje. Who's next? mabell? newmi? Now we see the fruits of Chris' Embassy.

Me sef don tire for the Chris embassy people. their fruits dey smell well well

took[b] over akhozem by January this year.[/b] He is a friend from Edo state. I didnt create it and I didn't vote for myself. The issue of privacy is not with nairalanders here . After Kunle, enigma and you started to google my name on the net . And began to attack my personality. I am not ashamed of who I am. I didn't deny it. But the problem is that it may have consequencies on me. That's why I never affirm to be who You guy claim I am. I don't have right to say that openly. It's like a police man going on tv to speak for the police when he is not the P.R.O of the police. If pastor chris doesn't speak to press or defend himself. He believes if you are of God, persecutions are only bread to make you stronger. I don't know what the results of these exposure of my responsibility can cause me.


But this response in this other thread is in febuary na, Pastor pastor
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=610431.msg7815292#msg7815292

Enigma:

@ Joeagbaje
(not this talking to and voting for yourself business);

Talking to ya-sef? Oh I see: 'My name is legion for we are many'.


I always knew that the best thing for the truth of this matter is for CEC members to come to this forum be very active. It would have been better for them if they had stayed away, but like someone said above it must have been the holy spirit that pushed them to be posting. The result is that their heart has been exposed.

Pastor AIO:

Talking to ya-sef? Oh I see: '[size=14pt]My name is legion[/size] for we are many'.


I always knew that the best thing for the truth of this matter is for CEC members to come to this forum be very active. It would have been better for them if they had stayed away, but like someone said above it must have been the holy spirit that pushed them to be posting. The result is that their heart has been exposed.

Is Pastor saying the other "pastor" inherited the Gadarene hordes?

[size=3pt]Some of them do sound like demons though - mabell (no decency), newmi (wants to crush everyone like a trailer), fyneguy (419), azimouth (boastful yet no IQ)[/size]

Seriously though, the more active they are, the better - their fruit shows and Mehnnnnnnn, Oyaks smells bad.

nuclearboy:


[size=3pt]Some of them do sound like demons though - mabell (no decency), newmi (wants to crush everyone like a trailer), fyneguy (419), azimouth (boastful yet no IQ)[/size]

I think these guys are becoming a cult with a nonsensical attitude.

wait o! just noticed something, you all talk about men of God living large but the members also live large, drive better cars and live in luxurious houses or you have not come across any

@Mabell

Please lets be sensible. How many of his congregation can buy PLANES ? Is it those that take the 'free' buses to the land of fraud ? Notice that the 'free' is in quotes because those people have paid their tithes and offering so it is just their own money (albeit a much reduced amount of their own money - after the charlatan has taken money to maintain his PLANE).

Paul left an example behind - he WORKED. Members living large WORK for their money. They have excess and live well off their own sweat. Any pastor who has a secular job and is not living off tithes or his congregation in any indirect or direct way is spending his own funds and has a right to do so.

But when the bulk or totality of your income is from your congregation, it is only right that you live responsibly and modestly. Many say their income is from books etc. They will stand before God. Paul wrote over half the NT - how much did he sell those writings to us? The Gospel is NOT a means to personal financial gain

@nuclearboy

You always say the truth

Whose lifestyle set the benchmark for Christian living, Pastor or congregation

mabell:

wait o! just noticed something, you all talk about men of God living large but the members also live large, drive better cars and live in luxurious houses or you have not come across any

So if the members hang out in brothels pastor should do same abi if some members worship sango as backup, pastor should do same abi Then again, your post does reflect the reality of the situation. Now what we get from the pulpit is being influenced/shaped by the yearning of the congregation I sometimes wonder if pastors actually add value to the life of believers

nuclearboy:

Paul left an example behind - he WORKED. Members living large WORK for their money. They have excess and live well off their own sweat. Any pastor who has a secular job and is not living off tithes or his congregation in any indirect or direct way is spending his own funds and has a right to do so.

But when the bulk or totality of your income is from your congregation, it is only right that you live responsibly and modestly. Many say their income is from books etc. They will stand before God. Paul wrote over half the NT - how much did he sell those writings to us? The Gospel is NOT a means to personal financial gain

Yes paul worked but he said

2 Corinthians 11:7
7 Did I do wrong and cheapen myself and make you look down on me because I preached God's Good News to you without charging you anything?

LoveKing:

@nuclearboy

You always say the truth

What is "truth"