₦airaland Forum

leggo:
apart from the fact that it is ludicrous to consider lahm the GOAT of full backs, the rest is plain ridiculous.

You seem to have a problem with English comprehension.
What part of that post implies that Lahm is the greatest full back of all time?

darkenedrebel:
let's be honest.. Ronaldo plays better than he did.
this is coming from a Barcelona supporter


people just tend to over-hype oldies✘

I am a huge CR7 fan myself...but
***************************************
Pele: 7 x League Title, 2 x Continental Champion

Ronaldo: 4 x League Title, 2 x Continental Champion
**********************************************
Pele: World Cup wins 1958, 1962 & 1970

Ronaldo: None
***********************************************
Pele: 757 Goals(No friendlies)

Ronaldo: 468 Goals
**********************************************
It's not even debatable.

darkenedrebel:
Is Pele better than Christiano Ronaldo? ✘

Is that in doubt?

darkenedrebel:
so what you are trying to say is that Messi isn't in the echelon & can't be mentioned in the same sentence with Philip Lahm & Cannavaro?
Jesus Navas has won the world cup.
Jerome Boateng is also a world cup winner..
read in between the lines.
world cup is not a determinant. ✘

leggo:
zidane , cannavaro , xavi and lahm are greater players than messi? I hope I'm misconstruing your post

Nihilist:
World Cup is the biggest trophy in football....
Winning the world cup is one of the prerequisites for sitting at the same table as Pele and Maradona, Zidane and Xavi, Cannavaro and Phillip Lahm.

I split it into forwards, midfielders, and defenders for easier understanding.

Messi is a forward, and will be compared against Pele and Maradona....and yes he is not yet on their level.

darkenedrebel:
you are calling Maldini a defender of old? Maldini didn't play during Pele's time.

& no- I don't think Zico is better than Messi.
Messi has faced tougher oppositions & plays in an era of football where the stakes, physicality &, technicality are at it's apex.

I strongly doubt Pele would have been as clinical in front of goal if he played in this era.
if he played in the premiership, serie A or laliga

& there are Manx defenders of today that can't match & even beat the so-called defenders of old..
•Thiago Silva,Kompany amongst others ✘

Lol this is a joke.

Looking at the Super Eagles alone....You can't see machines like Taribo West and Uche Okechukwu again...Instead it's milky boys likeOmeruo and Oboabona

The defenders in the 60's, 70's and 80's were brutal thugs. If they missed the ball, they would not miss your head. You had people like Andoni the Butcher that nearly killed Maradona with a tackle from behind(and saved the boot he used to do it in a glass case) and Graeme Souness running round kicking people in the balls.

Those were the days of man to man defending...unlike the Zonal marking today.

darkenedrebel:
did Pele win the champions league or 5 balon d'ors?
did he ever win 2 trebles throughout his career?


using the world cup as a yardstick isn't it. that's just wack Nigerian mentality.
same way some people say Messi needs to move from Barcelona & excel in another club before he can be said to be great.✘

World Cup is the biggest trophy in football....

Winning the world cup is one of the prerequisites for sitting at the same table as Pele and Maradona, Zidane and Xavi, Cannavaro and Phillip Lahm.

If Pele faced the defenders of nowadays I doubt he would have found the back of the net as much as he did.
the stakes & technicality of the game are way higher than ever before.

Eusebio has hit out at people for comparing Cristiano Ronaldo's goalscoring exploits and his own after the Real Madrid star moved past him in Portugal's all-time top-scorer list. "The comparisons make me sad. It's easier now. I never played against Liechtenstein and Azerbaijan".
"It's wrong. There is no comparison. I scored my 41 goals in 60 games. It's easier now because you play more games against weak teams. I feel sad", the 'Black Panther' told Portuguese television.
CR7's hat-trick against Northern Ireland last week took him onto 43 international goals, with only Pauleta having scored more for the Portuguese national team.

http://www.marca.com/2013/09/11/en/football/international_football/1378917585.html

Deadbeat cobbler?

Japan is just a useless team.

nateevs:
I cannot fault Ronaldo's dedication and hard work but I don't know many people like to make it look like Ronaldo is not incredibly talented.

I doubt that anyone would say Ronaldo is not talented, but his game relies heavily on his physical abilities rather than his mental faculties.

Compare to Messi who could probably manage to still play world class football while sat on a Wheelchair.

When Ronaldo first came to England, Manyoo fans use to cuss him out because he was selfish, and would often choose the wrong pass when he released the ball, and all his stuppid legover wey no dey book.

Renee Meulensteen gave an interview about some intensive training Manyoo put CR7 on to try and cut out the rubbish and focus on goal scoring the season he scored 42.

If you look at Ronny, you see that his game is still relatively limited in terms of passing and chance creation. When he scored a freekick in April this year, the media made such big deal of it because it was the first freekick he had scored in his last 50+ attempts in a period that spanned just over a year.

Why I am such a huge fan, is because CR7 has recognised his limitations as a footballer, and instead chosen to improve his goal scoring talent by practicing harder, eating cleaner, becoming stronger, running faster, and jumping higher than anyone else.

Messi on the other hand is tiny, and by some accounts doesn't even train that hard. He's the guy that is so supremely talented that he interrupts team speeches to drink Pepsi at half-time whether the manager likes it or not.

Unlike young CR7 who was a bit dodgy on the wings and had to improve, young Messi was too good for the wings and had to be moved in field.

At the end of the day, both players are so transcendent over every other player in the planet, that they can only ever be compared to each other...and maybe that's why Ronaldo comes across as being less talented.

elampiro:
Good Nihilist finally gave Ivanovic his due respect. Few weeks ago, you wrote about Ivanovic like he had a poor season or he he is even a poor right back.

I began to wonder if you wrote that just to please people.

Ivanovic is the best right back in EPL. Any player who played the number of matches he had is bound to be battle fatigued . The reason he had moments of poor concentration in the tail end of the season, when Chelsea were already home from the war.

I said he was the weak link in our back line defensively.

The only person who would doubt Ivanovic being the best RB in the league last year thinks Valencia played better than Dani Alves.

AirborneLacer:
Nihilist have you seen this?

Ronaldo's prowess as an athlete being put under the microscope. Science and football getting along.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSL-gPMPVXI

Yeah seen this a while ago.

Ronaldo is the most perfect athlete in Football history.
And I think that's the major difference between Ronaldo and Messi. Ronaldo's game is based on his exceptional body, while Messi's is based on his exceptional brain.

And that's why I don't rate Messi as much...because he has a natural talent that cannot be taught or acquired by practice and hard application, and I can liken him to a child born with a silver spoon.

Ronaldo though....that dude to me represents the ultimate ideal of aspiration, and the rewards of dedication and hard graft.

In a game where the biggest names were mostly recognised for their technical abilities, Ronaldo is the only great I can think of in the history of the game who is recognised for his athleticism

coogar:
how's ramos only slightly better than valencia when stats show that he destroyed valencia in all the relevant stats compiled? slightly??

Dont try and be disingenious.

Leggo provided the original criteria for comparison...and that's what we used.

Even using your amended stats, Valencia steal beats his preferred choice of Alves in most categories.

leggo:
your eyes cannot see take ones, tackles won or interceptions? you are a boring joke bro.. [size=18pt]Valencia played better than alves last season[/size], alves had a better 2nd half of season..useless stats eh? typical

Lobatan.

This is not opata yarns at all.

Good night

coogar:
how much defending does alves actually get to do when they hug possession 89% of the time? i don't trust nihilist's stats, he has doctored it to suit his argument.

Oya you post it.

We both know that you know better.

It's leggo that is just stubbornly refusing to admit that Stats only tell a small part of the story.

He said we shouldn't insult Val by comparing him to Clyne....but look at the mental gymnastics he's performing when confronted with the awful truth

Leggo, I'll leave it jare. All i was trying to point out is that an over-reliance on stats on this board can lead us to some truly ludicrous conclusions.

Most times, your eyes are better than these useless stats

leggo:
being the mischievous little person you are , you omitted chances created, assists from your comparison. alves had a brilliant 2nd half of season. Val defended better but offensively alves was killing it

Ok I apologise for that omission

You gave 9 criteria. Valencia beat Alves in 7 of those.

Valencia is clearly better no?

#OpataYarns

leggo:
you quoted others and base the conclusion of our discourse on that? Alves was my choice because he was a free agent, have you seen me clamoring for Ramos? I don't need pride to to realise clyne,Coleman et al are inferior players

But Valencia is better than Alves according to your stats....do you agree?

leggo:
lol.. Ivanovich as the best rb in the league last season, statement of fact or opinion the only fullback linked to UTD this season I wanted was Alves

Using your own criteria, Valencia was actually better than Dani Alves last year. Infact of all the names linked to Manyoo, only Sergio Ramos was slightly better than Val last year.

See

https://s10.postimg.org/qcowquq09/Capture.png



Like I told you earlier, There is a reason the lads I quoted were initially loving Clyne until recently....and stats had nothing to do with it.

leggo:
as a matter of fact , he just might be.. don't fall for your own fallacious trap.. Man Utd fans slamming Valencia doesn't automatically make others better... Chelsea fan, you know it is what happens on the pitch that becomes stats??

Lol so your pride has now led you to imply that Val is one of the best Rbs in the league?

Human behaviour is sooooo interesting.

coogar:
that is why we are interested in ramos & not the idïots parading themselves as full backs in the premier league. if rafael is fit, he's easily the best RB in the league. however, his fitness & injury curse is a let down.

You haven't actually answered the question.

You clearly stated that Clyne would bench Val and send him packing. Is that still the case?

Leggo I hope you do the honourable thing and apologise for the 'Opata yarns' jibe

Unless, maybe I'm wrong and Valencia is actually the best Right Back in the league.

Keky:
But Coquelin is better than Matic.

Tah! Mechionu gi!!

leggo:
you want me to rain on your matic parade??

Please.

Everyone says Valencia is not a natural full back, and an upgrade is needed.

Manyoo has been linked to Clyne and Coleman.

Using the very criteria you posted....Valencia is better than both!

So who's next?

Lets look at Ivanovic who was clearly the best RB in the league last year....guess what? Valencia wins again!

How about Pablo Zabaleta? Valencia murders him too.

Dont believe me? Click this opata link below

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/antonio_valencia/165/126/581/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/seamus_coleman/165/126/467/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/branislav_ivanovic/165/126/438/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/pablo_zabaleta/165/126/544/0/p#interceptions/blocks/clearances/defence_score/pass_completion/successful_take_ons#90

So where do we go from here?

coogar:
what did i say?



nah....
it doesn't - they both have a huge number of minutes on the pitch for stats to favour a lower number. what are you talking about?




goalies are only as good as the defence before them. with moröns like evans & jones playing in front of de gea, it's not hard to see why de gea would concede more goals. you need to first look at the number of shots we concede before you can analyse the difference between de gea & ospina.

if de gea had a stable defence in front of him like courtois did, he would have conceded nothing more than 15 league goals all season.



his method of comparison is very solid!
per 90 metrics is the most accurate of all statistics. they ripped the numbers down per minute & then multiplied it by 90. what is the flaw in it?



so?
valencia is mediocre as a right back but even in his mediocrity, he's better than clyne! how is this difficult to understand. if 60% is better than 50% does that make 60% a score to kill for? united fans want 90% as RB, something neither valencia nor clyne can offer.




average per game is actually worse.
it compares players who are subs that played only 4 mins in the game to players who completed 90 mins.

per 90 metrics is the best statistical data. it considers every minute spent on the pitch by the respective players. valencia was better than clyne last season.....no ifs, no buts!

So Clyne will not bench Valencia and send him packing?

leggo:
average per game.. We may slam Valencia all day but don't insult him with this clyne comparison..

Mate I've no interest in comparing both players....

Can you please give us Matic v Coquelin per game or per 90 with all the defensive and passing stats?

Or DDG v Ospina?

If per 90 metrics or per game metrics prove that Val is better than Clyne, then the same should hold true in the other two examples, no?

Disprove my 'Opata yarns' once and for all.