₦airaland Forum

ahiboilandgas:
they have more problems to tackle in their home country than worrying about Nigeria business clime ......u have 10m homeless people over 1 trillion in student loan ,racism, white supremacist etc u jump all those na Dangote in west africa be ur problem

Shuooo. So a whole America has homeless people?. How people go dey homeless in a supposedly heavenly country?.

Donbrig:
@ahiboilandgas, thanks for educating ositadima1 on this issue. I don't really know how to argue with people, everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, we all want the best for Nigeria.

We should also understand that oil and gas with new refineries are not the only sector that can improve our economy. There are several sectors that are yet to be tapped into, particularly agriculture and metalic minerals like, gold, silver, tin, copper, lead, zinc, iron, nickel, chromium and aluminum.

Nigeria could earn more billions of dollars from these metalic minerals if we can harness them judiciously.

Nigerians complaining now will not go into the metalic materials sector now. If Dangote finishes with the refinery now and moves into that sector, people will now jump out and be shouting about Dangote taking over the sector. Orient petroleum was given a refinery license decades ago. After the foundation laying with so much funfair, nothing else happened. I support the Dangote proposal of 'no refinery, no license to import'. MBA collected N170B from people. Wetin him take am do?. Live flashy lifestyle. Where are all those that collected huge sum from subsidy scam?. They should use the subsidy scam money to build a 5,000 barrel refinery. The various petroleum marketing unions should form an SPV and build a refinery for their members. That is how competition is done. The space is open and big enough for every player. Enough of this continous bashing of Dangote.

SanctifiedSista:
Thank GOD for Farm4me
I will.be using that till I see another trusted one

Please continue. Use your village town crier to spread the good news to every nook and cranny of your village. Iam sure that once they hammer like you, they will give you a Chieftaincy title.

emmanuelewumi:
They were warned. What do you expect.

A young guy who has never handled N5 million in his life, asked investors to invest about N20 million in his purported farm. At the end of the day he got over N100 million

Iam sure the guy don jakpa to Canada or US or UK or Australia.

emmasoft:
4.5%

364 day TBill is now out performing it.

emmanuelewumi:
When is the next outing for Treasury Bill investors in the primary market?

Oga Emma, are you about to shift to TBs?.

Lazyyouth4u:
Please redo the projections with these assumptions.

1. Most people retire around 60 to 65 and are assumed to live for another 25 years. So assume that the money is expected to last for 25 years. So at retirement, he starts with 4m for the year. This should be sufficient for a healthy couple na.

2. From year two, assume that 4m annual cash withdrawal will be increasing with inflation. So for example, year two withdrawal will be 4m * 1.08 and so on. This assumes your 8% inflation is correct.

3. The man no get any serious health issues and no dependents.

4. The man has his own house.

If the balance after withdrawal of annual spending money is being compounded and growing at 10% minimum rate of return, the money suppose last the man until he die na.

If by mistake he and wife lives longer than 25 years, then they are on their own o . Or maybe the kids will step in to assist

But wait o, wetin old man and him wife wey no get any other responsibilities apart from feeding go need all that money for?

He go need all that money to dey sponsor trouble makers for him village and carry small small girls.

QuinModah:
The same thing I asked her when she put her money in Hocorn. Funny thing is she is an agriculture graduate.

Wa o. An agriculture graduate doing that. Even if she did not enter a farm during her studies, at least she was taught the theories of farming and the various risks inherent in agriculture. She should be given 3m lashes of cane.

QuinModah:
This is false

I know but i was only following your lead of inclusion of medical. One medical need by a retiree can wipe off N100m. Don't you think so?.

QuinModah:
Mosque nko

Same o.

QuinModah:
Reason I taunt them on the agritech thread, many have been burnt badly on that thread, even the op of the thread warned them t o desist they no gree here. She is currently squatting with me after months of torment from her landlady

I laughed when i saw all these Agrictechs coming up and promising a high ROI on crops. Have they ever entered a farm or done farming to be promising such?. Just a few days of blockade the other day, farmers started loosing N10B daily.

QuinModah:
� ko le work they will need medical attention and that money no go carry them.

Medical was not included in the trend of the discussion. The originator of the discourse said a healthy retiree.

Even in the city, 100m a month might not be enough for a retiree.

QuinModah:
Send this to your church announcement department so they can announce it in church tomorrow.

If he no dey go church nko?.

QuinModah:
25k. Inflation affects them, they transport their wares to the market to sell probably neighboring village

We are talking of a retiree and his wife spending 100k a month in the village. He is not farming. He can grow the tomatoes he needs in his garden.

If a basket of tomatoes is 25k in Lagos, definitely it will be far lower than that in a village in Kano that i used as example. Moreover, a retiree with his wife living in such a village cannot consume a basket of tomatoes in a month in such a village. Dem dey chew am raw every morning?.

QuinModah:
I didn't invest a dime but warned them after my cousin's 3m went into thing air with 4 agritech, she is still crying

Why is she crying?. Iam sure she was warned but she waived it aside saying it is her money which she can afford to lose and that she is still young and so can afford to take such risk.

QuinModah:
100k with inflation at 16%

Which inflation in the village?. Does inflation affect palmwine, bush meat, akamu, akara wen dem make with firewood from the forest, fish from the river, accommodation in the family house, local fowl wen dey waka for compound, local goat wen dey waka for compound etc.

Btw, what is the price of a basket of tomatoes in Lagos and a village in Kano?.

condomuser:
What if I give him sure odds with betnaija and he plays with the whole N2 million to win N20 million?
Na joke o

Sure odds for Liverpool to win EPL abi?.

Lazyyouth4u:
Let’s assume he invested $100m. So because of $100m, na him Baba dey follow Aliko bumper to bumper to monitor that him small investment?

Such people don’t go into ventures like this to be minority shareholders. I believe he has a much larger interest in that business. He’s most likely going to be the guy marketing the refined products produced there

Hmmmmm. You have a point there.

yazga:
Patnership

What type of partnership?.

ahiboilandgas:
Dangote cheif strategies is proposing back integration schemes for oil refinery...meaning only companies that are currently buiding refineries should be allow to import petroleum product into Nigeria ....this has been his strategy to coner ever markets he jumps into ( in the guise of local production capacity) to create monopoly or oligopoly...used same for sugar and cements now proposing same for refinery......i visited the refinery projects recently and I observed that the company was more interested in finishing the depots ,loading gantry and access road and Jetty ....with a 60m litre capacity completed....they have 3 companies in the location...Dangote refinery (40 peecent completed ) dangote product marketing company ( completed ) and dangote fertilizer (complete)....the dangote petroluem marketing company is suppose to buy refine products from Dangote refinery and sell for profit.... and can source for products any where in the world....so since the refinery is not yet ready they can't wait f they will start by importing this year..... (This a decoy) since the enough depot and stations and vessel own by dapman and ipman member and non is building a refinery currently if the govt accept the back ward integration then only dangote product marketing company will monopolized the 1 trillion naira hyrocarbon markets

Otedola has visited the Dangote refinery complex twice in the last one month. What is his interest in the refinery?.

emmanuelewumi:
The higher the risk the higher the interest rate, buying and selling in the informal sector has a lower risk.

The interest ought to be lower

The high interest rate is the lack of collateral. Which collateral you wan collect from okrika seller who buys a bale to sell?.

emmanuelewumi:
Try microfinance banks at 3.5% per month, that is 42% per annum

Microfinance bank loans are not for playing in the stock market. They are mainly for those doing buying and selling in the informal sector.

emmanuelewumi:
It is their headaches, no point taking Panadol for other people's headaches.

I have found out that fixed income and Treasury Bills people usually mind their own business, it is people in the real sector that usually give themselves headaches over what fixed income and Treasury Bill Investors are doing with their money.

Ideally an investor should be diversified, by having different Investments and assets like real estate, gold, cash, fixed income, Eurobonds, REIT, shares, etc.

But if you have the temperament, knowledge, experience and time they can also have a small business.

The most important thing is to make sure our Investments generate more that enough cash flow that can take care of our expenses

Imagine me retiring and relocating to my village. Wetin concern me with real sector.

ojesymsym:
OPM!!! I think there is a church so named.

Anyway, OPM in the context of this thread, funny thing is that ahib, NL1960 and lazyyouth are basically saying the same thing using different jargons, terms, grammar, terminologies and different case studies.

Ahib has a different view o. The owner of Azman Air that carried his own cash to go and buy 3 planes is not doing OPM but MPM(My Personal Money).

Lazyyouth4u:
Most Nigerian airline companies finance the purchase of their aircrafts through lease agreements (another form of OPM). Axxxx Air leases its fleet of planes from European lessors. Go FBN go confirm

When Arik and Aero were taking loans and entering lease arrangements for their fleet of planes, Nigerians were hailing Ibru and that Arumeni man say them dey buy the planes with their own cash. Until AMCON struck and took over these companies and their fleet of planes

If not for AMCON, na so dem for dey grant interviews upandan saying they bought the planes with their own cash made from pure water business they started when they were 10 years old.

ahiboilandgas:
abdulmunafi owner azman air bought his first 3 aircraft cash...no bank loan and no OPM ..like wise max air owned by dahiru Mangal....he paid 170m usd for share in onando (cash )

Did he buy others in the fleet with cash?. Why did he not use the cash for the 3 aircraft to get more airctaft on lease basis?.

I know of an owner of a company who thinks in this cash usage way. He wanted to buy 4 Toyota Corrola cars for use in the operations of the company. The cost of a Toyota Corolla then was 4m. He wanted to pay 16m cash for the 4 cars. His eyes were then opened to the possibility that he can pay 4m down payment for the 4 cars and spread the balance repayment over 4 years with a monthly repayment on each car thereby having 12m cash at hand.

So between the owner of Azman air and this business man, who you think say get business sense pass?.

ahiboilandgas:
their is a movies called other people money try and watch it

I have watched it. Was thinking of recommending it to you.

ahiboilandgas:
OPM must not be from the the bank it can come from source that their will be no interest on it .....let me give u a local example and a real use of OPM ...during the oil boom and zenon was controlling the deseal markets in Nigeria .....zenon depot will put out price of like 65 naira per litre for AGO while other are selling at 70 naira ....this will instigate payments by marketers in billions .meanwhile zenon is having just 1m litres in their tank farm and have collected OPM for 10m litres the wait game begins the pay vitol in near by benin offsihore and baam product deliver.....zero loan ..

OPM is 'Other Peoples Money'. It does not have to be a loan. Zenon had people paid billions into its account which it will use to bring the AGO. Why Zenon no use its own money?.

ahiboilandgas:
cost of money moves with money markets rate ...[b].rate cannot be 18 risk free then u imagine bank to give u opm at 16 ....[/b]with risk..it impossible the risk free rate will alway determine the risk pro rate ....that why I like person that have gone through that routes to explain not some book theories

I said 'if'.

On the bold, that is why i did not take the loan when TBs rate was 18% and interest was more than 18%.

Anyway, when you make $200m, carry the entire money go do one project. Me, i can never do that.

ahiboilandgas:
practically example of members that have used other people money to a achieve success is key theoritcal essay dont work in Nigeria...to risky....a member told us how they used credits to buy up a hospital and how they paid back

Is the credit not from a bank or from a source?. That source is the OPM. If he was unable to repay, he will only loose the property as he can go and setup the hospital in another location.

The fact that the repayment was fully done does not mean that OPM was not used.

In September every year, apart from normal expenses, i have bills for school resumption and rent. If TBs rate is 18% and i can get a loan for 16%, i will push the money for all those bills into TBs and take one year loan at 16%. The upfront interest will be put in MMF while i repay the loan from my monthly income.

condomuser:
In case A when business fails, he is still liable to the bank for $30 million capital, most banks can only offer no interest repayment plan, you are responsible for the success and failure of your business.

In theory, he is liable but what happens if the collateral for the loan cannot meet the amount?. Many companies have been taken over by AMCON while the promoters are moving about and living large. So where is the liability?.

Lazyyouth4u:
For those people that don’t understand why billionaires with lots of money still go to take loans from banks, let me show a basic example of how OPM works. You can thank me later

Case A : Business man has a project of USD40m. Instead of carrying out the entire project with his own money, he goes to the bank to borrow USD30M and then puts only USD10M of his own money. The project succeeds and earns USD100M profit. He pays back USD40m (USD30m principal plus USD10m interest). The remaining USD60m is his profit. So he basically makes 6x his money back (6 multiplied by the USD10m invested). Neat profit. If business fails, he only loses USD10m.

Case B : Business man puts all the capital of USD40m and takes nothing from the bank. Project succeeds and earns same USD100m. He has no loans to pay. The entire USD100m profit is his. But wait a minute. He only makes 2.5x his money back (2.5 multiplied by the USD40m invested). Neat profit but less gain on money invested. If business fails, he loses the entire USD40m and possibly goes bankrupt

Lesson learned about OPM: most big business men would rather put the least money required to enhance profit and minimize their risk. Nobody will risk their entire net worth in business when they can use Other People’s Money to minimize risk and make higher profits on the money they invest.

I wish i can give you more than one like for this post.

It is only an unwise businessman that has access to credits that will ignore that access and then use all his/her money to finance a project.