₦airaland Forum

maclatunji: Scientists are conducting experiments to find magic? Try another one.

I say your comprehension is limited, you say something is hindering your perception. Before nko?

Thank god its scientists that are conducting experiments not the council of ulamahs.



cant wait for the scientists to emphatically declare Allah as the creator. allahu akbar!

GeneralShepherd: Even you Tex, I find it dubious how christians become so agreeable with muslims when debating the existence of God!

Is Allah the same with Yahweh?
Do you believe the world was created by Allah? Or did they work together?

yes it was a "collabo" thing 2 "Gees" laying down the tracks.

gangster style.

kambo: somethg out of nothing mumbo jumbo i may also say.
First, contrary to wat u and other atheist hold , the bible is perfectly logcal and consistent. But you hav unfounded premises.
If God is spirit how do you know he exists?
This leads us to the wrkgs of the human spirit. You know God exists with your spirit not your mind.
Science doesnt blv in the spiritual component of man so it tries to shoe horn every xplanation into a physico-logical model. It misinterpretes many spiritual thngs wrong in d process.
Your spirit knows things your head doesnt know.
Many people use spiritual signals called hunches/intuition in making decisions. One property of this hunches are they point to future prospects with varyg intensity of premonition but wen ignored and things come to pass as was suspected, the person can b heard lamentg or rejoicg "had i known"/"i knew it wud wrk" etc
. Your intuition,hunch is from your spirit.
The same spiritual sense is used in discerng God.
When a christian message is preached to ppl who hav never heard of God before, their spirit tells them (their minds) tht they are listening to the truth. They are convinced just by hearg without physcal proof and of course,the Holy spirit is there to giv credence to the truth. The devil is also there to dissuade distract etc . This beings are spirits so you cant see them but you see the effects.
Sometimes sombody is talkg to you, and without evidence you suspect tht the person is shady. Is a lying to you. You may shake off this feeling only to later on discover your "hunch" was true.
You know God is real through your spirit, there is an impression you hav telling you the christian message is tru but you can shake it off or smother it-i.e harden ur conscience - l8r on logcal or physcal evidences may follow.

How do you know tht reality is composed only of physically dterminable things?
Science holds this assumption but cant prove it .
You cant prove it.
So you dont have even the valid basis to debunk the bible which says reality is subdivided into the physcal and the spiritual and the spiritual has ascendancy over the physcal reality and its laws.
Jesus walked on water because as a spirit being in a physcal body he knew how to operate the spiritual laws tht suspended the operational powers of the physcal laws. This is perfectly logcal.
He ascended into heaven overriding physcal law of gravity which is binding on all physcal matter.
If science realizes the other side of d story, it wud hav implications and most scientists wudnt want to admit to it , the existence of God, so scientist chose to deny even thwart any fact tht proves there is God.

Why did God create the physcal world?
Because he wanted and had the means to. Theyre many answers.
because He cud create man to inhabit it and play God in it just like is God in the Spirit wrld. Actually, this point is shown in the early chpters of Genesis. Tht is why man of all creatures possesses the only set of mental properties for wrld domination. Also man of all creatures craves power and dominion and freedom. The desire for success in any field is simply a manifestation of the God-implanted trait for ascendancy and power.
It was injected by chaos or randomness or evolution.

With what material did he create the wrld?
Nothing actually but not in the evolutio sense.
God used his spoken wrd to create the worlds when there was nothing.
The bible is terse on this but Hebrews 11 is clear.
God's wrds hav the inherent power to achieve his intent.
When he said "let there be Light"
the uttered words created the intent and today we have the sun in our solar system.
So i guess the planets were also spoken into existence but the picture of what He intended was in His mind so the physcal outcome looked like He imagined.

i call BS!

OLAADEGBU: He is just because He will not allow the sinner to go unpunished. He is merciful because He visited our punishment on His only begotten Son so that you may walk free.

Justice and Mercy meets together.

you mean god is like jekyll and hyde?!





that explains a lot of sh*t!

In Yorùbá mythology, Ṣàngó (Sango, Xango, Shango, Changó in Latin America, also known as Jakuta) is perhaps the most popular Orisha; he is a Sky Father, god of thunder and lightning. Sango was a royal ancestor of the Yoruba as he was the third king of the Oyo Kingdom. In the Lukumí (O lukumi = "my friend" religion of the Caribbean, Shango is considered the center point of the religion as he represents the Oyo people of West Africa. The Oyo Kingdom was sacked and pillaged as part of a jihad by the Islamic Fulani Empire. All the major initiation ceremonies (as performed in Cuba, Puerto Rico and Venezuela for the last few hundred years) are based on the traditional Shango ceremony of Ancient Oyo. This ceremony survived the Middle Passage and is considered to be the most complete to have arrived on Western shores. This variation of the Yoruba initiation ceremony became the basis of all Orisha initiations in the West.
The energy given from this Deity of Thunder is also a major symbol of African resistance against an enslaving European culture. He rules the color red and white; his sacred number is 6; his symbol is the oshe (double-headed axe), which represents swift and balanced justice. He is owner of the Bata (3 double-headed drums) and of music in general, as well as the Art of Dance and Entertainment.He is represented with Saint Jerome
Mythology

Sango (or Jakuta) was the fourth king of Oyo in Yorubaland, and deified after his death; mythologically, he (along with 14 others) burst forth from the goddess Yemaja's body after her son, Orungan, attempted to rape her for the second time. of course there are several myths regarding the birth and parentage of Sango. He is a major character in the divination literature of the Lukumi religion. Stories about Sango's life exemplify some major themes regarding the nature of character and destiny. In one set of stories Sango is the son of Aganju and Obatala. As the story goes, Obatala, the king of the white cloth was travelling and had to cross a river. Aganju, the ferryman and god of fire, refused him passage. Obatala retreated and turned himself into a beautiful woman. He returned to the river and traded his/her body for passage. Sango was the result of this uneasy union. This tension between reason represented by Obatala and fire represented by Aganju would form the foundation of Shango's particular character and nature. In further patakis Sango goes in search of Aganju, his father, and the two of them play out a drama of conflict and resolution that culminates with Shango throwing himself into the fire to prove his lineage. All of the stories regarding Shango revolve around dramatic events such as this one. He has three wives; his favorite (because of her excellent cooking) is Oshun, a river goddess. His other wife, Oba, another river goddess, offered Sango her ear to eat. He scorned her and she became the Oba River, which merges with the Oshun River to form dangerous rapids. Lastly, Oya was Shango's third wife, and stole the secrets of his powerful magic.
The story of Sango and Oba carries the familiar refrain, "all that glitters is not gold". As has been stated Sango had three wives, Oba, his first and legitimate wife, Oya, his second wife, and Oshun his concubine. At that time and in that place they would live in a compound. In that compound, Sango had his own house and each wife had her own house surrounding his. He would then visit his wives in their houses to eat and to sleep with them. Oba noticed that when Sango went to the house of Oshun he would eat all of the food that she prepared for him but when he came to her home he would just pick. Oba, wanting a closer relationship with her husband, decided to ask Oshun how she kept Sango so happy. Oshun, being asked this, was filled with resentment. As children of the first wife, Oba's children would inherit Sango's kingdom. Her children would not have nearly the same status, being born from his concubine. She decided to play a trick on Oba, out of jealousy. She told Oba that many years ago she had cut a small piece of her ear off and dried it. From this she made a powder she would sprinkle on Sango's food. As he ate it, she told Oba, Sango would desire the food and Oshun all the more. Oba, excited by this information, ran home to prepare Sango's amala, his favorite meal. Once it was done she decided that if a little piece of Oshun's ear produced such an effect her whole ear would drive Sango mad with desire for her and he would forget Oshun forever. She sliced off her ear and stirred it into Sango's food. When Sango came to eat he sat down and began eating without looking at his dish. When he finally glanced down he saw an ear floating in the stew. Shango, thinking Oba was trying to poison him, drove her from his house. Oba ran from the compound, crying, and fell to earth to become a river, where she is still worshipped today. As an Orisha she is the patron of matrimony and is said to destroy marriages that abuse either partner.
Worship of Shango

The religious ritual of Sango was possibly designed in order to help the devotees of Sango gain self-control. Historically, Sango brought prosperity to the Oyo Empire during his reign. After deification, the initiation ceremony dictates that this same proseperity be bestowed upon followers, on a personal level. According to Yoruba and Vodou belief systems, Sango hurls bolts of lightning at the people chosen to be his followers, leaving behind imprints of stone axe blade on the Earth's crust. These blades can be seen easily after heavy rains. Worship of Sango enables- according to Yoruba belief- a great deal of power and self-control. Sango altars often contain a carved figure of a woman holding a gift to the god with a double-bladed axe sticking up from her head. The axe symbolizes that this devotee is possessed by Shango. The woman's expression is calm and cool, for she is expressing the qualities she has gained through her faith. The orisha, or gods, are Yoruba ancestors or incarnate natural forces. Some of them are ancient, created in the beginning of time by the Great God, Ollorun. Orisha may be considered natural forces such as rivers, mountains, stones, thunder, or lightning. There are two categories of Orisa, which are grouped according to personalities and modes of action. This group of gods mostly consists of males, but there are a few females. Sango's wife, Oya is also included as a “hot Orisa”. She is the queen of the whirlwind. This Orisa tends to be harsh, demanding, hostile and quick to anger. Other “hot Orisa” include Ogun, god of iron and Obaluaye, lord of pestilence. The second category of Orisa are the Orisa funfun—“the cool, temperate, symbolically white divinities”. These are the gentle, calm, and mellow Orisa. They include: Obatula/Orisonla, the divine sculptor; Osooli/Eyinle, lord of hunting and water; Osanyin, lord of leaves and medicine; Oduduwa, first king of Ile Ife.
Orisa are divine but also deified ancestors of Yorubaland. Sango fits both of these descriptions, for his is not only the embodiment of thunder, but also a hero of the Oyo Empire.
The ibori is the symbol of a person's inner spiritual essence or individuality known as iponri. The ibori is cone shaped and repeats throughout Yoruba culture. The top of an ibori is called the oke iponri. This tip is made from the person's placenta and symbols of deities or ancestors. The deity, Sango, is represented by wind.

FOLYKAZE: The thread is for Sango and a mad man is bringing up Egungun. You have embarrassed the real atheist on this forum. From the beginning of this thread, you didn't add anything tangible than foolish rant.

You were asked to define Nourishment and you ran to wiki and copied Consciousness definition. Who asked you that?

From Sango now to Egungun. Chai.

And na person born you? Reginus...abeg abeg there is a yaba left client here.

you cherry picked stuff to make your false claims, one needs a wholistic understanding of yoruba culture and beliefs to call out your bs

more to come later in the day. got to work now.

Shango
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Said to be one of the most popular Orishas, Shango got his start as a mere mortal like you or I and was the third king of the Oyo empire during his lifetime. In his death however he achieved Orisha status and lives in the sky wielding lightning bolts which he throws at those he chooses to be his followers. This is said to leave behind the imprint of a stone ax blade on the earth and any Yoruba who knows how to look for them can easily spot these after a good rain. Being chosen to be one of Shango’s followers is quite an honor as his people traditionally possess great power and self-control. That said, he was also a major symbol of African resistance during the European slave trade. He’s also quite popular due to his representation of male sexuality and virility in general.



so how did shango become electrical energy?!!

Eshu
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If you’ve got a message you’d like to get to the heavenly realm, this is the guy to talk too. The messenger to the Orishas, God, and other spiritual beings, any time you offer a sacrifice be sure to cut him in or he might not be inclined to get your message where you want it to go. Just a hint for smokers out there, among his favorites is tobacco. Eshu lives at the crossroads of fortune so if a practitioner is also at a crossroads in their own life, it’s often Eshu that’s called upon for help. Often associated with change, he can be a help for those perusing their destiny as long as they respect him, otherwise he might be inclined to throw them off course.

Eshu should be regarded with caution because he’s also very fond of tricks and practical jokes, especially the ones that add a little spice to life by throwing husbands and wives, friends, or sometimes whole towns into arguments. This follows with the belief that chaos and disorder can’t exist without the other so Eshu often takes it upon himself to bring a little unpredictability to the table to keep things interesting. Author Stephen Prothero describes him as “both policeman and troublemaker- whom Christians have often confused with the devil.”

Orunmila
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Orunmila is the prophet responsible for developing the system of Ifa divination. While it’s important to remember that Ifa has always been, Orunmila is the guy who figured out how to sort of bridge the gap between Heaven and Earth by developing the divination techniques described on the last page.

One of the most important Orishas, Orunmila stands for stability and harmony as opposed to Eshu who loves to spark chaos. As legend has it, when once Eshu was threatening him, he laughed and told Eshu to go ahead and do what he would , because if he died then so would Eshu, because chaos cannot exist without order and the other way around. Some consider the two along with Olodumare a sort of Yoruba trinity. Said to be short, very dark, and the most intelligent of all the Orishas, Orunmila is omnipotent and can not only tell the future by also knows the destinies of all of humanity.

Oshun
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The goddess of rivers and the only female present at Creation, Oshun is considered extremely beautiful doused with jewelry and lovers. She is the goddess of everything from fertility to sex and is said to control the sexual attraction of all creatures. Though she is the Orisha often turned to for guidance and help during childbirth (as the entire abdominal area is sacred to her), she also relishes in the pure pleasure that can be found in the union of the male and female and for this reason is associated with honey.

However it is not only external beauty that’s associated with her but the deepest aspects of femininity that make women what they are and are often beyond words or physical description.

However she’s not all sugar and spice as her association with all things lovely might imply. Legend has it that she’s not only a big fan of beer, knives, and poisons but that she can also be quite flippant in her own escapades of love. She moves easily from lover to lover, dismissing men from her presence for the slightest annoyance and when she tires of the game entirely peaces out and turns herself into a river.

Obatala
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Rumored to be among the oldest and wisest of the Orishas, Obatala is associated with white and his followers regularly wear the color (as well as lead bangles) and strive to be as morally clean as Obatala’s gleaming white robe. His enjoyment of the color can also be seen in his temples which are painted white and he is said to enjoy doves, rice, and coconuts, all of which have the color in common. Obatala is said to be the owner of heads (where the Yoruba believe one of our souls is located) and therefore lays claim to everyone’s unless someone is officially inducted into the priesthood of another Orisha.

Palm wine is a touchy subject for Obatala and his followers are not allowed to touch the stuff as it proved quite diminishing for their patron Orisha. As the story goes Obatala hit the palm wine bottle a little too hard when he was supposed to be creating the world and by the time he woke up from his drunken stupor, the once in a lifetime opportunity had been stolen from him by another Orisha named Oduduwa (rumored to be his younger brother). Furious, Obatala swore off palm wine forever but as anyone who has sworn off anything forever knows, it doesn’t always work out that way. It seems Obatala had a bit of a relapse as he was fashioning the bodies of people (though he didn’t technically give them breath), and it was during this escapade that he accidently invented dwarfs, hunchbacks, and other people with physical deformities who are to this day sacred to his followers.

Ogun
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Ogun, much like Ares of Greek mythology is the fiery god of iron, war, politics, justice, hunting and these days even technology. Said to be the first Orisha who ever came to earth, different stories claim that he either arrived to find sutible living conditions for humanity or hacked a trail through the great abyss that separated the Orishas from humans at the time.

Not unlike Obatala, Ogun too had quite a misfortune with palm wine when he found himself drunk on it as he engaged in battle in Nigeria long ago. Apparently he became so enraptured with the battle that he found himself slaying not only enemies but friends as well. Some say that when he realized what he’d done he turned his sword on himself and sank into the ground. Others claim that he disappeared into the woods where he hunted and fashioned farmer’s ploughs but either way he’s a bit of a tragic figure.

However despite this mishap Ogun is also considered a fierce defender of justice and in traditional Yoruba courts, witnesses swear by kissing a iron rather then placing hand on the Bible. Also very found of politics, many give him credit for the Haitian Revolution of 1804 as he is said to have planted the idea in the heads of Haitian slaves and helped them to attain their victory.

Shango
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Said to be one of the most popular Orishas, Shango got his start as a mere mortal like you or I and was the third king of the Oyo empire during his lifetime. In his death however he achieved Orisha status and lives in the sky wielding lightning bolts which he throws at those he chooses to be his followers. This is said to leave behind the imprint of a stone ax blade on the earth and any Yoruba who knows how to look for them can easily spot these after a good rain. Being chosen to be one of Shango’s followers is quite an honor as his people traditionally possess great power and self-control. That said, he was also a major symbol of African resistance during the European slave trade. He’s also quite popular due to his representation of male sexuality and virility in general.
Oya
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Said to be Shango’s favorite wife, she acquired from him the gift of lightning which comes in quite handy since one of her favorite pastimes includes creating storms such as hurricanes and tornados (which are said to be her whirling skirts). Very fond of destruction of any sort, she is also the spirit of earthquakes, fire, magic, and change. Due to her close associations with transition, she is also said to be the guardian of cemeteries and is known to have a very warrior like spirit. She is also said to be the Orisha of the Niger river and can turn herself into a water buffalo.

Yemoja
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The patron of women (especially pregnant ones), the ocean, and motherhood in general, Yemoja was said to be the mother of about 15 different Orishas including Ogan and Shango. Others go as far as to say that all life sprang forth from her but regardless she is very respected.

Osanyin
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Osanyin is the Orisha of healing herbs and if you’ve ever gotten into natural medicane, it’s said that nothing you’ve made has worked without his help whether you know it or not. Said to have a high pitched squeaky voice, he is often depicted with only one leg and in different traditions also either one eyed, one armed, or with one huge ear and one tiny one.

Yoruba views of the world make an important distinction between orun or heaven on the one hand, and aiye or the world on the other.[3] Orun contains Olorun, the orisa and lesser spirits and ancestors, while aiye contains men, animals, sorcerers and witches. Sorcerers and witches are sometimes referred to as omaraiye, 'children of the world'. Mediating between orun and aiye are Orunmila, the orisa of divination, and Esu, the Yoruba trickster. Ifa divination provides man with knowledge of the supernatural, while Esu is responsible for carrying sacrifices to other divinities. He is unpredictable and needs constant appeasement (cf. Westcott, 1962). Often Ifa will simply prescribe an offering to Esu, but a portion of the sacrifice is still set aside for him, even when the offering is to another orisa.

The orun/aiye distinction is important in understanding Yoruba concepts of life, death, destiny, reincarnation and the soul. This is one of the most complex areas of Yoruba thought, and generalisation is particularly difficult in view of differences in terminology between areas (e.g. Bascom, 1960a). However a relatively consistent picture does emerge.

Firstly, Yoruba thought makes a distinction between the physical body (ara) and the spiritual elements which inhabit it and give it life and individuality. The published accounts differ about the number, names and characteristics of these spiritual elements, but generally the two which appear as the most important are the 'breath', emi, and the 'head', ori.[4]

Emi is generally thought of as the vital force, without which the body dies. In some accounts it is also thought of as the conscious self. It not only provides locomotion for the body, but can think independently of it, and can travel abroad on its own in dreams (cf. Bascom, 1960: 401).

Ori is more complex. In some accounts, it, rather than emi, is the seat of the intellect. It is also related to a person's destiny, as the element which predetermines his success or failure in the world. The relationship between ara, emi and ori is illustrated by an Ifa verse (Dos Santos, 1973; Abimbola, 1973) in which the body is moulded by Orisanla, the emi is provided by Olorun, and the ori is provided by Ajala. Ajala the potter is said to be a careless and corrupt orisa. Those who pay him get a good ori and those who do not have to take their chance, as many of the ori in his store are faulty. A man with a good ori is able to achieve success in the world, provided he can ward off the dangers of witchcraft, sorcery and other attacks by pmparaiye. Ori is thus given to, or chosen by, an individual before his birth, creating limits within which success in the world can be expected, and within which the emi is able to act.

In contrast to this rather fatalistic model, ori is also said to be the 'ancestral guardian soul', a spiritual entity which can be influenced by man in his efforts to improve his life on earth. In his account of Egbado, Morton-Williams describes it as the 'indwelling spirit of the head, presiding over success or failure in day-today affairs' (1967a: 222). A man should worship his own ori, together with those of his children until they are adults. The ori is represented by a container made out of cowrie shells. Inside are the smaller models of the ori of the children, which are exchanged for larger ones when they marry. A similar model is implied by beliefs in the existence of a spirit double in heaven. Bascom was told that each individual has two ancestral guardians, one in his head, and one in heaven which is doing exactly the same things as the individual himself is doing on earth (1960a: 406). With the support of the ancestral guardian in heaven, a man will live out his allotted span of life. It is at times necessary to make offerings to the heavenly ori which is sometimes described as an orisa.

These varied conceptualisations of the spiritual components of the person have parallels with those of other West African peoples, and represent similar attempts to deal with the same underlying reality: the structure of the personality. In his discussion of the Tallensi and Kalabari material, Horton (1961) draws a parallel between 'the Freudian ideal of an Unconscious Self ó a purposive agency whose desires are unknown to consciousness and are frequently in conflict with it', and the Tallensi notion of destiny, which is 'a life course chosen by a part of the personality before birth, a course both hidden from the post-natal consciousness and frequently opposed to the latter's aims'. The Yoruba concept of ori in some accounts has rather similar characteristics, though it is unclear whether an individual can confront and exorcise an unsatisfactory destiny as is the case with the Tallensi and Kalabari.

Related to beliefs in emi and ori are beliefs in reincarnation. Many Yoruba are identified through resemblance, dreams or divination as being reincarnations of particular ancestors, and are given names such as Babatunde ('father returns') or Yetunde ('mother returns'). However, even after this 'reincarnation', these ancestors may still be invoked to help their descendants. Bascom's informants in Meko told him that the emi remains in heaven as the ancestral spirit, while the ancestral guardian soul is reborn, with a new body, breath and destiny (1960a: 404-5). It also appears to be possible for several individuals to be simultaneous reincarnations of the same ancestor, and in some areas resemblance between members of the same descent group is explained in this way (ibid: 404; cf. Idowu, 1962: 194ó5).

Also related to the orun/aiye distinction are beliefs in abiku spirits (Verger, 1968; Morton-Williams, 1960a). An abiku may be born in a child on earth, but it soon leaves for heaven again, and the child dies. The abiku spirits have their own egbe in heaven, and when one of them leaves for earth, he promises to return quickly to his companions. If a woman gives birth to a succession of children who die in infancy, it may be divined that it is an abiku at work, and the next child is given special treatment. Abiku children are given special names ó examples are Aiyedun, 'life is good', implying that the child should stay to enjoy it, or Durosinmi, 'stay and bury me', implying that the child should outlive its parents. The appearance of these children is often neglected, and they might even be disfigured to make them less attractive to their companions in heaven. It is normal to postpone the circumcision or scarification of an abiku child until it appears likely that it will survive.

Finally, the orun/aiye distinction is relevant to Yoruba beliefs about death and the ancestors. Death marks the transition to the afterlife, and much of the symbolism of Yoruba burial ritual is that of a journey. The dead go to one of two orun, depending on how they are judged by Olorun: orun rere, or 'good heaven', for the virtuous, and orun apadi, 'potsherd heaven', for the wicked, where they are tormented and from which they cannot be reborn (Idowu, 1962: 197ó201; Bascom, 1960a: 403ó4).

Death also involves a transformation of the personality of the dead person into an ancestral spirit. The ancestors take an active interest in members of their descent groups, and can give them advice through dreams and trances. Anyone can pray and make offerings to a dead parent for spiritual protection, and the bale makes an annual offering on behalf of the descent-group members, usually on the grave of its founder. According to Abimbola (1973: 75), each adult who dies becomes an orisa to his own family. These beliefs are related to the concept of ori. According to Bascom, these annual sacrifices are made on the day on which the founder used to make offerings to his own ori (1969a: 72); and according to Morton-Williams, an adult can make prayers and offerings to the ancestors or the ori of a living parent for spiritual protection (1967a: 223).

Representing the ancestors, but assuming a role which cuts across descent-group boundaries, are the egungun masqueraders (Morton-Williams, 1956a; 1967a: 340ó7; Bascom, 1969a: 93-4; cf. Olajubu and Ojo, 1977). They are dressed from head to foot in elaborate costumes, and their faces are obscured by nets through which they can see. There are several types of egungun. The omo egungun, 'children of egungun' or 'junior egungun', have costumes made out of brightly coloured strips of cloth and leather which swirl out as their wearers dance round. The agba egungun, 'senior egungun', have costumes made out of dirty rags and masses of clay with animal skulls and charms embedded in them. Egungun masks are inherited within the descent group, and the agba masks can only be worn by men who have learned the necessary rites to counteract their power. The Egungun cult, like Oro, emphasises the separation between men and women.[5] The masks are only worn by men, and apart from a woman official called the Iya Agan and her deputies who help the men dress, women are not supposed to know the identity of the wearers. It is dangerous for women to touch the masks, and some of the agba egungun are believed to be able to identify witches, who in Yoruba culture are almost always women.

Egungun appear in two contexts during funeral ceremonies. In some areas it is customary for an egungun to emerge from the room of the dead man some time after the burial, and to imitate him while he brings greetings from the dead to the other members of the compound. Secondly, during the celebrations which follow the death of an elderly person, the relatives may pay the members of the cult to come and dance for them.

The dual significance of the Egungun cult as a commemoration of individual ancestors and as a representation of the collective dead acting on behalf of the community as a whole comes out clearly in Morton-Williams' account of the festival in Egbado (1956a). After the vigil with which the festival starts, there is a procession of agba egungun together with the members of their descent group and drummers, demonstrating the solidarity of the groups that own the masks. On subsequent days of the festival there is less emphasis on kinship, and the other types of egungun join in.

Consciousness is the quality or state of being aware of an external object or something within oneself.[1][2] It has been defined as: sentience, awareness, subjectivity, the ability to experience or to feel, wakefulness, having a sense of selfhood, and the executive control system of the mind.[3] Despite the difficulty in definition, many philosophers believe that there is a broadly shared underlying intuition about what consciousness is.[4] As Max Velmans and Susan Schneider wrote in The Blackwell Companion to Consciousness: "Anything that we are aware of at a given moment forms part of our consciousness, making conscious experience at once the most familiar and most mysterious aspect of our lives."[5]
Philosophers since the time of Descartes and Locke have struggled to comprehend the nature of consciousness and pin down its essential properties. Issues of concern in the philosophy of consciousness include whether the concept is fundamentally valid; whether consciousness can ever be explained mechanistically; whether non-human consciousness exists and if so how it can be recognized; how consciousness relates to language; whether consciousness can be understood in a way that does not require a dualistic distinction between mental and physical states or properties; and whether it may ever be possible for computing machines like computers or robots to be conscious.
At one time consciousness was viewed with skepticism by many scientists, but in recent years it has become a significant topic of research in psychology and neuroscience. The primary focus is on understanding what it means biologically and psychologically for information to be present in consciousness—that is, on determining the neural and psychological correlates of consciousness. The majority of experimental studies assess consciousness by asking human subjects for a verbal report of their experiences (e.g., "tell me if you notice anything when I do this". Issues of interest include phenomena such as subliminal perception, blindsight, denial of impairment, and altered states of consciousness produced by psychoactive drugs or spiritual or meditative techniques.
In medicine, consciousness is assessed by observing a patient's arousal and responsiveness, and can be seen as a continuum of states ranging from full alertness and comprehension, through disorientation, delirium, loss of meaningful communication, and finally loss of movement in response to painful stimuli.[6] Issues of practical concern include how the presence of consciousness can be assessed in severely ill, comatose, or anesthetized people, and how to treat conditions in which consciousness is impaired or disrupted.[7]

from wikipedia

I hope you guys remembered to give sango his vitamins yesterday?! follycraze and macjerkoff

OLAADEGBU: God is never unjust and never capricious. He is the God of mercy and at the same time the Just God. It is your choice whether you will face His justice on Judgment Day or His Mercy through Jesus Christ. Your decision determines your destiny.

your god cannot be just and merciful at the same time, for mercy is the absence of justice!

FOLYKAZE: Morning.





Nope. Most see Sango or other Orisa as a being. But the few educated priest I meet agreed Orisa are natural energies.



Thats truth. I noticed he once accused me of 'atheistinized' Yoruba spirituality. I asked him further to explain his view or interpretation on Yoruba hypothesis on how the world came but he said he is more concerned about the pagan religion side.

Though I embrace only the philosophy, naturalistic beamlight and spirituality in Ifa. Same pagan9ja stood against me but when I explained my points on a thread, he agreed and moved on along.

My focus is that we should let go dogmatism....there are facts that can add up to knowledge in it.

That is the problem i have with you, you cant be an atheist and be spiritual i repeat you cant be an atheist and be spiritual, being spiritual means believing and recognizing religious spirits. spirituality does not exist on its own its tied with religion. its like an atheist saying he believes in the xtian holy spirit or islamic jinns. as an atheist you can embrace the philosophy part of any religion. for instance i have embraced the ifa philosophy myself. Even when back then when i was a moslem i acknowledged and respected the philosophy behind ifa, now that i am atheist i have embraced it completely. The spiritual side of ifa is a no go area because then i will have to believe in the orisas. yoruba myths like every other is comprised of the literal and metaphorical element, what you are doing is that you are trying to re-write everything to fit into science, and that i believe, is fraudulent.

nourishment! that is definately a new one!!

Mr Troll: I find all this interesting, though I don't believe all of it. what I usually have against all this is when pagans or anybody for that matter start making claims of fantastic 'supernatural' manifestations by one babalawo or pastor.

you say Sango is not actually a being, so why do people worship it/him/she? why make incantations to invoke its supposed powers? why make sacrifices to a metaphor or an abstract concept?

stories of people breathing fire? really? spitting thunder? Nigger please!

sango was a beign he was an alafin(oba) in ancient oyo. Oya, Ogun and osun were also beings. I dont know when they turned to energies o! osun for instance was the deity in charge of giving children and is worshiped till 2morrow in osogbo.

The method of worship of all this orisas are not the same the differ from one orisa to another, take ogun for instance the mode of worship is for a black dog to be beheaded at the shrine, i beg weting "energy" wan carry dog blood do?!
The typicall yoruba society was organised along cult lines each family has it personal orisa cult the family belongs to, you can easily know a family's cult from the family name, if a family worships ogun for instance the family name has ogun prefixed to the family members name like ogunmola, you have ifakolade, osunbiyi etc. and every family has a family shrine.
what follykaze is trying to do is trying to marry yoruba myths with science, he has cherry picked a lot of stuff to marry the yoruba myth with science. just imagine christians waking up one and saying yahweh is energy?!

yoruba orisas are intercessors some of them had human forms. orisas like
sango
oya(sango' wife) i beg energy dey get wife?!
osun (who turned into a river at osogbo)
ogun (who's method of death yorubas can not agree on)

What is all that nonsense you wrote up there folly?! Sango was an alafin in old oyo he was never energy. why are you re-mixing yoruba myths? this is plain silly. for anybody that cares to know the truth please just google yoruba religion. I am also yoruba and i know what you wrote up there are a pack of lies. guys google is your friend.

macof: dude my relating to modern science is to show that spirituality has used symbolic representation to explain wat science is just explaining.

I see you are a waste time

you ve shown a lot of equestrian droppings.

FOLYKAZE: You know what is what. The only thing you looking for is a old monster called Obatala who got drunk. You want this for mockery.



Yes.... Eledumare is the cosmic singularity where the universe is birthed through massive explosion.

Obatala is the light particle that caused the explosion and which spread. The drunk state mean the cooling state of light particle.

Oduduwa is the womb of creation. The dark energy which produces the atom and compounds. It is said that it continued the task of Obatala when the later was drunk...cooled.

^^^does the above related with modern theory. Big bang?

Ogun is Iron leading the other Orisa into planet earth. Science said the outer and inner crust made up of Iron.

Yemoja is the icy comet that bombarded the earth. Yoruba people said she fell when she was running...and her belly gushed out water....from there vegetation and life came out. Modern Science said water on earth was as a result of icy comets that fell on earth. And this produces the life.

We were told Orisas climbed down on a chain in the water body....that is symbol which mean chain equates to dna and life sprang out of water body.

^^^does that sound like a primordial soup?


African man will accept anything of foreign even when they have the exact at home. This is inferior complexity on you.

Now tell me the philosophical state is only in my mind. You are embarrassing.




It not for you to agree on. That is you in the mirror. You are a liar and clouded with pride. Your atheism is hateism. You hate truth that stand against your false knowledge.





The link explained alot. You are blinded from seeing reality and truth. That is the effect of close mindness.

Just come out plain that you are looking for a monster that got drunk. I am not going down on your like. Be what you called...rational.

so much horse shite and cow dung on one page!

FOLYKAZE: Me think 'pagan' is a corrupted term used to destroy the concept of other form of spirituality apart from Abrahamic faith.

African spirituality to the best I see it is 'naturalistic pantheism'. Naturalistic pantheism is the same thing as spiritual atheism which I am.

So ye yin iya wa?

i dont know about your spirituality but i damn sure know you are not atheist.

macof: My work here is done.

You probably see Europeans as master brains while ur ancestors are nothing but lame men making folklore

you should stop attacking xtians, the only diffrence btw you and them is that your own BS is local.

Reyginus: You have to be optimistic to blend in.

Bros the only thing you will learn on this thread is that "every BS is local"

Expecting to read a lot of BS on this thread!

Mr.T Anonymous:
They’re too s!lly to know they’re the ones causing all the problems.
They’ll fight to keep a fetus alive, but then they refuse to support single mothers or provide birth control. Hypocrites. They try to shove their morality down our throats, but in reality they’re a bunch of self-righteous bullies who probably watch kiddy porn on their computers, pick up prostitutes by the airport or solicit sex in public bathrooms. Christian women? A bunch of frigid Betty Crockers who clutch their pearls and demand censorship if they hear a top 40 song. You have to cut them a little slack, though. Their husbands treat them like crap and most likely beat them into submission.
HOP

you too harsh! take am easy na.

Logicboy03: You are full of shite

gbam!

macof: Nofaith whether u are Christian or atheist

Yoruba or non Yoruba
You know nothing about anything Yoruba

So if u claim to be Yoruba, which I disbelief. You would have to prove it.

If you can't prove it then you have no right to claim I am rebranding Yoruba spirituality since u know nothing about Yoruba

Just because ur dull brain hasn't been exposed to such constructive and pantheistic explanation doesn't mean I am changing it.

lol! consult orunmila, he should be able to tell your sorry arse if i am yoruba or not.

macof: Anybody who claims to be Yoruba but doesn't understand wat I and Foly have been saying is not Yoruba but a bastard child who knows not his ancestry

Inu bibi mi o fi ise mi ronhan..........

macof: Anybody who claims to be Yoruba but doesn't understand wat I and Foly have been saying is not Yoruba but a bastard child who knows not his ancestry

Lol! like i said you guys are comedians

FOLYKAZE: Let me use two case here. I charged you to think but it seem your brain is not functioning well. Let me help.

Ile nje eniyan.... Meaning the earth eats human.... Does that mean earth eat protein?

Mo ti fun oju mi lounje.... Meaning I have given my eye food. Does that mean my eye have teeth, tongue and stomach which it use for digesting food?


It has been said....common sense is not always common. Lol

So if i am a driver i will nourish ogun energy by beheading a black dog at ogun's shrine and after doing the nourishment ogun protects me from accident. lol! you are just wasting your time. some of us are yoruba too and we can see through your charade. using fancy words to re-package and re-brand yoruba myths.