₦airaland Forum

Hebrews 11: 1-4
1Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. 2This is what the ancients were commended for.
3By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. 4By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.

chic2pimp:
Although I am a christian and do believe in miracles, it does not stop me from questioning certain ones. On wikipedia it states tb joshua claims to have brought a man back from death. If he really claims to have done that then he has lost all credibility. He not only claims to be a miracle worker he now believes he is Jesus Christ. I am all for giving people the benefit of doubt but c'mon this has gone beyond that. There is a huge difference between curing a human from certain diseases and raising the dead.

I want to understand, why is praying in de the name of Jesus for a person to rise up from de dead, claiming you are Jesus Himself? Shebi Jesus said in John 14:12. greater works you will do because I go to de Father.

What of the boy that Paul prayed for dat was raised from de dead? (Acts 20:9-12)
Is God not the God of the impossible? And if you go to tb joshua's church, he makes it very very clear that he is not the one doing the miracles. He says he is just a servant being used. He always says "I am not the healer, i just know the healer, Jesus Christ" and "It is not my work but my faith in His works"

Why is it we find it so difficult to beleive dat God can work miracles through people like you and me? tb joshua has nothing special about him when it comes to appearance, education, background, he is just allowing God to use him and submitting to de will of God, someting so many of us should be doing, as children of God, a chosen generation, a royal priesthood (2 Peter 2:9) dat is our inheritance in Christ.

I agree dat dere are fakes out dere, but dere are also genuine servants of God doing His work for His glory,

It is clear that those who are true servants of God, doing the works of Jesus Christ will be criticised, villified and falsely accused. Jesus said that persecutions would come. So the fact that men of God are being persecuted is not what we should look at. People will continue to say what they want to say for their own reasons. In fact, if all speak well of a minister of God, it is a bad sign. Jesus said that the kingdom of God is not to bring peace but a sword and that His person would cause the rise and fall of many. It is also clear that attacks will come from all areas. Most of Jesus Christ's strongest critcis were the religious leaders and pace setters of the day.

What we also know is that Jesus is still alive. He continues to heal, bless, deliver and save through His servants.

manifestedson:
I find it interesting that all of the articles accusing T.B. Joshua or Pastor Chris of terrible sins or crimes, always comes from a guy who is not direct eye-witness! The critics always site reports from distant third and fourth party victim, but they themselves have seen nothing. This is not right. It's calling slander and rumor.

Sorry, but rumor doesn't stand in any court of law. Before making strong allegations against a Pastor, a public servant or government official, make sure that you talk to the accused firsthand, so as to not publish a lie! Give the accused a chance to present their side of the story. This is only fair and right. Then, if you discover that a crime or scheme is underway do you have proper grounds to report as a FIRST HAND EYE-WITNESS.

Finally, I have a simple question. Why is it that only those ministries proclaiming and demonstrating that Christ still heals, delivers and transforms lives get attacked and lied on? And why do the attacks come from 'religious' people who do not believe the presence and power of a healing Jesus?

I want to second this question.
Why do all the attacks come to the ministries proclaiming the healing and delivering power of Jesus? If they are in fact fake, then where is the true healing? where is the true deliverance? Where are the greater works that Jesus spoke about? People, abeg, don't go by what people say. Take time to examine the facts. Don't say or do something that you may later regret and bitterly repent of.

I read this article on Nigeria Village Square - http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/articles/guest-articles/obama-in-ghana-a-sub-saharan-sermon.html

Excerpts:
I reflect in sadness on the state of our ‘religious’ nation. Rather than stand up against the obvious abuse of responsibility by those in power, many religious leaders in Nigeria openly frolic with political champions for the sake of cheap publicity, political influence and their share in the taxpayers’ money. As such, they are publically condoning this greed and power-mongering by their very attitude, abandoning the role of torch-bearers in society. As Ebenezer Obadare wrote of such dubious relationships, “, in a dynamic that works quite well for the state and serves the ends of holders of political power, religious leaders attend their (office holders’) birthday ceremonies, bless their respective families, and, at the end of each year, unfailingly prophesy positive things for the country they so spectacularly misgovern.”   

I am reminded of how Pastor Enoch Adeboye of RCCG, recently voted as ‘Nigeria’s Greatest Living Legend’, regularly fraternised with Obasanjo, now generally considered as one of Africa’s most corrupt and crooked rulers. As Adeboye played host to him in his Redeemed headquarters, received his endorsement for evangelical crusades, posed with him in pictures for the papers, Obasanjo in return waived RCCG’s tax imports and gave them various political privileges. Yet in the course of their closeness, it was not reported that Adeboye ever publically denounced OBJ’s corrupt practices and immoral activities.

In a similar vein, Adeboye hailed Gbenga Daniel’s tenure in Ogun, endorsed his campaigns and often visited the state on invitation for prayer sessions. However, with the current crises engulfing Ogun State, calling into question the integrity of OGD and his political rivals in the Gateway state and further re-iterating the catastrophic level of double-mindedness and vulgarity that has ensnared our nation, one wonders whether such a level of intimacy will remain between the two. Success is everybody’s child while failure has no father.

Well did Martin Luther King say, “We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people.” It is clear our religious leaders have a part to play in the gross mismanagement of resources and talents that Nigeria has come to be known for – not mainly for what they have done, but rather for the truth, however unpalatable, that they have failed to stand up for and compromised for the sake of personal gain and political appeasement. Many turn a blind eye to the words of Jesus Christ: “What is highly valued among men is detestable in God’s sight.”(Luke 16:15)

However, when the Ghanaian president, Professor John Evans Atta Mills, came to power this January in a peaceful election applauded internationally, his first point of call following his inauguration was The Synagogue, Church Of All Nations in Lagos, Nigeria to give thanks to God for his historic and unexpected victory. There, he shocked the continent with his declaration that Pastor TB Joshua had accurately predicted specific details of his three-round election victory, even calling Pastor Joshua ‘his mentor’, testifying that his humility and generosity had greatly impacted and inspired him. Joshua, in his turn, called on Mills to help the less privileged in Ghana, and support charitable organisations who ‘spend more on others and less on themselves’. The difference is evident. I am aware also of Mills ailing sight and hearing when he initially visited Joshua - problems set to terminate his political career, and his remarkable recovery following prayers.

It appears strange that the Nigerian churches are still busy arguing among themselves about the authenticity of Pastor TB Joshua, the very man Atta Mills has publically hailed and honoured. I think the results of these relationships speak louder than any pontificating on the qualifications of a true man of God.

SOURCE - Nigeria Village Square - http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/articles/guest-articles/obama-in-ghana-a-sub-saharan-sermon.html

So - Adeboye with OBJ and OGD. TB Joshua with Atta Mills. I think the results speak for themselves. 

What do others think?

Check out this article froom Africa News


Prophetic Birth: A Wednesday Wonder

It was an eruption of euphoria in Delta State, Nigeria, as a baby girl was born amidst supernatural circumstances…

Mrs Joy Everbright had carried her pregnancy for 11 months. Awaiting a caesarean operation, necessary due to the wrong position of her baby in the womb, Joy had all but lost hope of delivering her child naturally. However, fearing the doctor’s scalpel and hungry for divine solution, Mrs Everbright boldly made her way to a church in Lagos where miracles were said to happen. She received more than she bargained for.

In the midst of the large crowd at The Synagogue, Church Of All Nations on Sunday June 7th 2009, Pastor TB Joshua spotted Joy out with a pinpoint prophetic revelation. “There is a woman here – you are due. This is 11 months. Come out. You have been booked for operation. This is a baby girl.” Evidently shocked, Joy rushed forward. TB Joshua then prayed with her, telling her directly: “You will deliver your baby on Wednesday.”

The next week, Joy returned to the church to share her remarkable testimony. She had safely delivered her baby girl on Wednesday at 9:30am, precisely as the pastor had said. A medical doctor from the Bahamas who was present during the service confirmed, “This is indeed a miracle”, stating that an operation was the only medical option available in such a circumstance. What baffled the crowd most was the pastor’s prediction of the exact day of the baby’s birth, a declaration evidently made under divine influence.

Joshua used the occasion to explain the function of a pastor, saying: “Pastors are sent to utter the deep things of God for the conviction of sin, and for edification and comfort.” He further lamented “ministries of empty talk”, stating that many pastors don’t dabble into the area of prophecy today for fear that it will expose their lack of authenticity and authority. He reminded the congregation of the biblical standard in Deuteronomy 18:22 - “If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken.”

In the same service which was broadcast live on Emmanuel TV, a couple from South Africa shared a similar testimony. Barren for 10 years due to a low sperm count and inverted womb, Mr Pieter and Mrs Gene Van Zyl joyfully explained how prayer from Pastor Joshua had wrought an incredible miracle. Now several months pregnant, Gene spoke of how the pastor had told them two years earlier that she would conceive, and admonished them to hold fast to God and His promises. “God can definitely do it for you” she encouraged the excited crowd, now that the promise had become a reality.

Pastor TB Joshua has garnered a reputation for his prophetic prowess on both a personal and international level. Recently, he is said to have prophesied the death of former South Korean President Roh Moo-hyn, the tragic plane crash in New York on Feb 13 and the release of Ingrid Betancourt from the Colombian jungle last year. The President of Ghana, John Evans Atta Mills, has publically acknowledged Joshua’s prophetic ministry, stating he had accurately revealed to him details of his three-round election victory.

Concluding his sermon, Pastor Joshua said: “The prophecies of the prophets of old became signs. Each sign said: ‘These men are from God; their message is true; believe their words.’ ”

http://www.africanews.com/site/Prophetic_Birth_A_Wednesday_Wonder/list_messages/25447

If you check very well on the website, you will take note that the questionnaire is for foreign visitors to complete - not Nigerians. And 80% of tbj's personal prophecies are given to Nigerians whio have not written, filled any questionnaire or called before rocking up at the church. These are not those who attend the healing service, which is the last friday of the month but mainly newcomers, thousands of whom who come every Sunday service to check out the place. If you attend or watch the healing service, you will notice that Joshua rarely if at all gives prophecies and it is a day focused on healing and deliverance. your argument is empty and void. okay, what about the lady who was 11 months pregnant and booked for operation and tb Joshua said she would deliver on that wednesday safely and truly she delivered on that wednesday. is that the kind of information someone would fill out on a questionnaire - a future event? Many times, tb joshua will tell a person about the argument they had with their wife/ husband that morning or where the person is planning to go after the service. or he will tell a whole family who accused one of their family members as a witch that God says they are not a witch. i can continue to give more examples, but seeing is believing. all of you that are doubting or staying far, just take time to go tehre one sunday or watch one of the live services. this prophecy that takes place is not a rare occurence, but happens week in, week out and each person confirms the accuracy of the prophetic message.

ZAINABABY:
mystery mystery mystery, all is mystery!!!!
FOR ALL I KNOW FROM CANDID OBSERVATION, T B JOSHUA DOES NOT HAVE THE FILLING OF FORMS AS A SOURCE OF HIS PROPHESIES.
IF THAT IS THE CASE, YOU WILL BELIEVE WITH ME THAT THE FORM DOES NOT HAVE PROVISION FOR UPLOADING PICTURES, EVEN IF IT HAS, IT WILL BE PRETTY DIFFICULT FOR JOSHUA TO MEMORISE THE PICTURE IMAGES, GO STRAIGHT TO THE INDIVIDUALS AND PROPHESY TO THEM ON PRE-ACQUIRED INFORMATION.
HIS PROPHESIES ARE REAL BuT THE BONE OF CONTENTION HERE IS his source(s) of power!!! is/are it/they of GOD or of satan?
THIS QUESTION IS THE UNSOLVED RIDDLE IN T B JOSHUA'S PERSON

ZAINABABY, to know whether he is of God or not, look at the results of his ministry, the Bible says by tehir fruits you will know them. can satan cast out satan? the ministry is growing, not diminishing, a bad tree cannot bear good fruit, look at tb joshua himself - it seems as if the more his critics villify and condemn him, the stronger he becomes, and he does not lash out in retaliation or 'send back to sender', he just leavers everything for God and God continues blessing him,

I saw this article on Nigeria Village Square (http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/articles/guest-articles/obama-in-ghana-a-sub-saharan-sermon.html) - some interesting points raised,

Excerpts:
I reflect in sadness on the state of our ‘religious’ nation. Rather than stand up against the obvious abuse of responsibility by those in power, many religious leaders in Nigeria openly frolic with political champions for the sake of cheap publicity, political influence and their share in the taxpayers’ money. As such, they are publically condoning this greed and power-mongering by their very attitude, abandoning the role of torch-bearers in society. As Ebenezer Obadare wrote of such dubious relationships, “, in a dynamic that works quite well for the state and serves the ends of holders of political power, religious leaders attend their (office holders’) birthday ceremonies, bless their respective families, and, at the end of each year, unfailingly prophesy positive things for the country they so spectacularly misgovern.”

I am reminded of how Pastor Enoch Adeboye of RCCG, recently voted as ‘Nigeria’s Greatest Living Legend’, regularly fraternised with Obasanjo, now generally considered as one of Africa’s most corrupt and crooked rulers. As Adeboye played host to him in his Redeemed headquarters, received his endorsement for evangelical crusades, posed with him in pictures for the papers, Obasanjo in return waived RCCG’s tax imports and gave them various political privileges. Yet in the course of their closeness, it was not reported that Adeboye ever publically denounced OBJ’s corrupt practices and immoral activities.

In a similar vein, Adeboye hailed Gbenga Daniel’s tenure in Ogun, endorsed his campaigns and often visited the state on invitation for prayer sessions. However, with the current crises engulfing Ogun State, calling into question the integrity of OGD and his political rivals in the Gateway state and further re-iterating the catastrophic level of double-mindedness and vulgarity that has ensnared our nation, one wonders whether such a level of intimacy will remain between the two. Success is everybody’s child while failure has no father.

Well did Martin Luther King say, “We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people.” It is clear our religious leaders have a part to play in the gross mismanagement of resources and talents that Nigeria has come to be known for – not mainly for what they have done, but rather for the truth, however unpalatable, that they have failed to stand up for and compromised for the sake of personal gain and political appeasement. Many turn a blind eye to the words of Jesus Christ: “What is highly valued among men is detestable in God’s sight.”(Luke 16:15)

However, when the Ghanaian president, Professor John Evans Atta Mills, came to power this January in a peaceful election applauded internationally, his first point of call following his inauguration was The Synagogue, Church Of All Nations in Lagos, Nigeria to give thanks to God for his historic and unexpected victory. There, he shocked the continent with his declaration that Pastor TB Joshua had accurately predicted specific details of his three-round election victory, even calling Pastor Joshua ‘his mentor’, testifying that his humility and generosity had greatly impacted and inspired him. Joshua, in his turn, called on Mills to help the less privileged in Ghana, and support charitable organisations who ‘spend more on others and less on themselves’. The difference is evident. I am aware also of Mills ailing sight and hearing when he initially visited Joshua – problems set to ruin his political ambitions, and his remarkable recovery following prayers.

It appears strange that the Nigerian churches are still busy arguing among themselves about the authenticity of Pastor TB Joshua, the very man Atta Mills has publically hailed and honoured. I think the results of these relationships speak louder than any pontificating on the qualifications of a true man of God.

SOURCE - Nigeria Village Square - http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/articles/guest-articles/obama-in-ghana-a-sub-saharan-sermon.html

What do others think

Obama just delivered a speech during his historic visit to Ghana, his first to a sub-saharan african nation after his inauguration. He touched on many points, but made it very clear that Africa's future is in the hands of Africans and the responsibility to be taken up to challenge and stem the crises at hand is all too apparent. My people of Naija, wetin you de tink of his speech?

Selfishness and stinginess is truly crippling our nation. We tend to support eachother in corruption and selfish gain and crush anyone who rises up and wants to do right. There are some nigerians who would make any nation proud to have them as citizens, but we criticize, mock them, put them down and more often than not, send them out.

The answer is not as complicated as you may think. Actually the answer is simple. You don't have to choose. Let God do it for you.

Dis is a real eye opener!
people, start taking notice of dis prophet, he is more than what people say he is
true prophets of God are few and far between but so many tings now are suggesting dat tbj is one
let every man lie but let God be true!

purefact, shebi you said you were once a "Cinemagoogle" member right?
how many pictures relating to islam did you see in d church during your time dere? apart from dat, how many times did you hear d prophet mention anyting at all connecting to islam or being a muslim? please wake up, dat picture is noting but a manipulated photoshop job. its' amazing d extent people will go to tarnish a man's name

d people of nigeria definitely fairly and squarely chose abiola, so dey had confidence in him - dat might have given him the advantage and opportunity to start turning d country around.

check out dis link: http://www.modernghana.com/news/221708/1/tb-joshuas-encounter-with-mko-abiola.html

it is an interview which talks about how de late chief mko met with tb joshua 1 year before d election and how tb joshua told him d result,
what do you people tink of dat?

one ting i would say dat if you want to doubt, question or query 1, 2 or 3 of his prophecies as being mere chance - that's ok, but when it comes to 30-40 prophecies, you cannot just say dat all of dem were by chance. dat is not possible. many times, he will say d date dat d thing will happen and d country. look at d one he said about new york, he said dat on friday february 13th where part of d nation is 'NY' dat we should pray for protection, dat it will be an uncahngeable event - and remember what happened on dat day, d tragic plane crash in new york.
come on people, let's wake up and recognize a prophet as a prophet. apart from giving international prophecies, every sunday he will prophesy to an individual's life telling dem tings dey have not told anyone before. if you don't believe me, just find time to visit his church in lagos or watch d live services on emmanuel tv. did is no false prophet!!

ceasyc, one ting i would disagree with you on is dat dere is no one with serious physical sickness that receives healing in d Synagogue. you just need to go dere on a Sunday or watch one of d live sunday services on emmanuel tv and you will see cases of seeeeeeeeeeeeriousssssssss open wounds, cancer, swollen belly, etc. dat receive healing and give testimony of instant relief. many of dem after prayer vomit or urinate d poison out. apart from dat, most sundays or healing service days you see people in cars who can't walk receive prayer and dey begin to walk. later they give deir testimony. i tink dey treat each case individually,
but it is far from it to say dat serious sicknesses are not accepted
if you want long term testimonies, just take time to watch emmanuel tv and you will see people who came years back for prayer for a serious ailment and they come years later to give testimony and dey are still completely ok. dere are many cases, not just a few.

Nawaaoooo, tb joshua don get football club now

http://www.modernghana.com/news/219417/1/pastor-tb-joshua-why-i-floated-soccer-team.html

Sounds like he's really passionate about the game, and his club is going places

They played the flying eagles last two weeks and narrowly lost 3-2

He's reaching out to young players, encouraging them, giving them money getting them connections outside the country and all this, just because he wants them to succeed with their lives,

keep it up pastor!
more to follow

That is it.

i agree, the Bible never endorses extravagance but instead humility and simplicty
we should store up our treasures in heaven for that is where our reward is (~Matthew 6:21)
even Jesus said when you go to a feast, take the lowest position so that God can raise you up, because he who humbles himself will be exalted
all this flaboyance from our pastors is too much and not accord with genuine christianity
we all need forgiveness for this,

1. the secret black book of Satan in his possession, Inside this book lies the secrets he is using,When he calls the name of Jesus, he actually means another name, ,The signs you see him perform have their foundation in the occult world. when he gives money out he collects fortunes from the people he is helping and that fortune is the soul of those he is helping.by doing this, people are blinded to the wrong he is doing,that is why he films every of his move because he is embarking on a project which he has been prepared for by Satan all his life.

please, what proof do you have of all this. this should not be a forum of broadcasting empty opinions that have no evidence whatsoever attached to it. most of the rumours being spread about this man are completely unfounded and hearsay. i beg, get a life, have you ever been to his church to check out all this yourself? when did you hear him say he was born again from birth? what makes you so convinced that he is an antichrist - and even if it was so, is it for you to say? let all men lie but let God be true - God is the judge.

a king that was never crowned - or is this the crown coming now?

There's nothing bad about spending money on God's house, but only if more money is spent on supporting the needy, deceloping the country, sponsoring students to school etc. if not - there is something greatly imbalanced. what type of humanitarian projects is adeboye involved in and in what scale? if he has not spent more money on this then he has many questions to answer.

Manu will win it hands down
their consistency will not disappoint them
in for a great night of football entertainment for sure

if we don't believe that what the Bible says is true then there is no basis for any argument concerning creation or evolution.
i believe in the Bible because I believe not because i have a load of scientific facts to back up everything that happened. that is not possible, as i explained before God is God, not a man - his scope is far beyond what a man can reach or understand
Of couse if we don't believe the Bible is true, we will try and find our own explanation and theory to explain life
but the unanswered questions are still far more than the answered ones, and we cannot be so sure even of the answered ones,

I think it will be a draw or Nigeria will win it. We have more flare and skills than them. we just lack unity in the team and a good cooperation in the camp

Look at Jesus walking on water
That defied all scientific theory. Or miracles of healing, a broken bone put together in a few seconds. that is not logical or scientific and doesn't make sense if you try to figure it out in your natural mind. If we could understand God and the way He works, He wouldn't be God. His ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts (Isaiah 55). Even if we spend millions of years gfrappling and creating theories and doing thousands of scientific tests, God can just surprise us and change the whole world in a day. All our theories etc. are in my opinion a way of trying to imagine or believe pr convince people that God does not exist, or that He has no power.

Thank You Lord for forgiving me each time I sin
and for lifting me each time I fall

Abuja is better
Cleaner, more peaceful, more organised, more beuatiful, less stressful, need I go on?

Anyone who enjoys spreading dis type of unfounded rumours is wasting their time
i beg, For God's sake, leave d man alone. if he is not of God, definitely time will expose him
and yet since dey have been talking against him, he seems to be growing and his ministry is increasing everyday
if you check out his station emmanuel tv or his programmes on ait and stv, its all about God's work - miracles, helping the poor, sponsoring people and thousands testify to prove the reality of d miracles
when are we going to stop being so fickle and naive to embrace dis kind of filthy gossip

there are newspapers and there are newspapers

even if dat was a press publication, you can;t go by what anyting you read

if you want to check out any authenticity, look 4 the big, long time reliable newspapers of our nation, like the sun, punch, guardian and others. find out what they are saying about joshua,

[center][/center]
1 Corinthians 10:23
"Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive.

Mark 5:29-30
If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

this last week, i went to tb joshua\s church in ikotun egbe for the 1st time.
what is happening there is no jokee. he was prophesying for people in the crowd, telling dem their problem, even some things that happening years ago he was telling them. the man i was sitting next to received a prophecy. tbj told him about his marriage difficulties about how his wife has been going somewhere and he is doubting and maybe wants to end the marriage. he was so shocked. tbj then told him to invite his wife. then there was anoda case of a whole family who had accused the mother of being a witch. the man then asked each of them why they believed she was a witch. they said it was becoz of a dream the father had and so they now carried her to a shrine and it was confirmed she was a witch, since that time she had been pursying them in the dream and there was no progress in the family. tb joshua then declared to everyone dat God said she is not a witch and actually the cause of the family's problems was that the first born had got a charm years back and it was causing setback. the boy confirmed this. wow, either the man is crazy or he is truly hearing from God for him to say something that is different from what all the family and others were saying,
I still want to see more of this ministry before i judge or say more, but one thing, you people that have never set foot there, why not go? or you think you will be bewitched as soon as you enter? thousands of newcomers go every week amd come out the same, if not better,